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Posted: 3/23/2026 9:29:34 PM EDT
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Gents. A local guy has a mod 97 trench gun for sale/trade. It said the lockup is tight. It does have a repro heat shield and a reproduction bayonet. What are these things worth?    |
3-7-77
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
LETS GO REDWINGS!!!
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
LETS GO REDWINGS!!!
Joined:
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Posts:
70
EE: 100% (4)
NC, USA
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That’s a fake/clone. Was built on a commercial model. Choke should be CYL, not FULL. Not in the correct serial range for either WWI or WWII. WWI models were solid frame, and WWII were takedowns. Very very common for clones to be made on takedown frames ans that is the most common. Additionally there’s evidence on the mag tube where the tube/barrel band would have been to hold the tube in place with the barrel on a commercial model. Trenches didn’t have this band since the bayonet/shroud served this purpose. There’s a few other things, but what I just is enough and are usually the clear signs of fakes. So a very clear clone on this one and I would price these right 1000. |
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Originally Posted By Mholmes1: That’s a fake/clone. Was built on a commercial model. Choke should be CYL, not FULL. Not in the correct serial range for either WWI or WWII. WWI models were solid frame, and WWII were takedowns. Very very common for clones to be made on takedown frames ans that is the most common. Additionally there’s evidence on the mag tube where the tube/barrel band would have been to hold the tube in place with the barrel on a commercial model. Trenches didn’t have this band since the bayonet/shroud served this purpose. There’s a few other things, but what I just is enough and are usually the clear signs of fakes. So a very clear clone on this one and I would price these right 1000. Thanks. |
3-7-77
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
LETS GO REDWINGS!!!
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
LETS GO REDWINGS!!!
| I do have a old model 97 shotgun I want to modify. I even found a really nice older heat shield. When I researched it I couldn't find a source for the parts to convert it. If I remember correctly it was the magazine tube cap. |
3-7-77
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
LETS GO REDWINGS!!!
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
LETS GO REDWINGS!!!
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Bull Creek Arms does repro guns that run around $2k. They do them on 1897s and Model 12s. Not sure how they stack up repro wise. Repro |
''Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.''
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Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: I do have a old model 97 shotgun I want to modify. I even found a really nice older heat shield. When I researched it I couldn't find a source for the parts to convert it. If I remember correctly it was the magazine tube cap. 
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Preferred pronoun: MARINE
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Originally Posted By wildearp: The magazine tube cap would be easy to fab out of an OEM cap. Keep in mind the commercial barrels are smaller OD than the .mil ones. The kits were hard to find when I did mine, so I just cut to the right length and waited for a kit to become available. I liked it being short and never ordered a kit. I had a bead in my parts bin. This gun had a rubber butstock, so I refitted an OEM buttplate after this photo. The OEM stock is curved, so I had to reshape and refit the plate. : https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41996/Winchester_1897_20_1_8_inch-2979158.jpg Originally Posted By wildearp: Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: I do have a old model 97 shotgun I want to modify. I even found a really nice older heat shield. When I researched it I couldn't find a source for the parts to convert it. If I remember correctly it was the magazine tube cap. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41996/Winchester_1897_20_1_8_inch-2979158.jpg Thanks. If there is a tutorial on how to modify it can give it a try. Does the barrel ID affect how the heat shield attaches or somewhere else? |
3-7-77
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
LETS GO REDWINGS!!!
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
LETS GO REDWINGS!!!
| Anytime the prices climb on items, the fakers get busy. The last original 97 trench guns I purchased was in the early 2000's. I bought two of the Ivanhoe guns they got from the Richmond, VA p.d. The two I got looked pretty much unissued and came with "W" marked bayonets for about $3000 each. Who knows how much they'd sell for today. |
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Originally Posted By KavonTN: Bull Creek Arms does repro guns that run around $2k. They do them on 1897s and Model 12s. Not sure how they stack up repro wise. Repro Jesus… I’d love to have a repro clone, but not for a third more of the cost for a Beretta 1301 tactical. |
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Originally Posted By Radiolucent: I wish we could get Norinco imports again so people would stop chopping up perfectly fine commercial guns to make some phoney trench gun. The worst abomination I have seen was a Winchester 1893 cut up to be a "trench" gun. Why not ask Savage? They import Chinese pumps. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Why not ask Savage? They import Chinese pumps. And Cimarron imports the 1887 Lever Action from China - Could Easily Do some "Wild Bunch" imports. Maybe they are not considered "sporting" with Bayonet lug? If a bayonet was "common use" for any rifle back in US history - why are Bayonet lugs not protected? |
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Originally Posted By cherenkov: And Cimarron imports the 1887 Lever Action from China - Could Easily Do some "Wild Bunch" imports. Maybe they are not considered "sporting" with Bayonet lug? If a bayonet was "common use" for any rifle back in US history - why are Bayonet lugs not protected? Originally Posted By cherenkov: Originally Posted By backbencher: Why not ask Savage? They import Chinese pumps. And Cimarron imports the 1887 Lever Action from China - Could Easily Do some "Wild Bunch" imports. Maybe they are not considered "sporting" with Bayonet lug? If a bayonet was "common use" for any rifle back in US history - why are Bayonet lugs not protected? They are, you just have to pay a team of lawyers for a decade to win only to have commiefornia limit bayonets to 3" and then do it all over again. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
| Not to derail the thread, but I have a good old fashioned 97, takedown with about a 20 inch barrel. It was my Grandfathers. Many a quail has been killed with it.... Will try to get pics tomorrow is anyone is interested. |
Been called many things: Asshole, hey you, Boats and a few others. The one I cherish is when a Marine called me "Doc"
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My Father and Grandfather would come back from the afterlife if I did anything to these... Both were used to put food on the table. The Winchester 94 was my Grandfathers saddle gun while working a cattle ranch. Edited- Gramps put that rubber pad on the 97... Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
Been called many things: Asshole, hey you, Boats and a few others. The one I cherish is when a Marine called me "Doc"
Joined:
Aug 2023
Posts:
357
EE: 0% (0)
WI, USA
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Originally Posted By TontoGoldstein: Ithaca riot guns are easy to determine. They were all of a particular and well-known SN range. Anything out of that range isn't legit. For WWII era guns, this is true. Vietnam era guns on the other hand, not so much. I had an Ithaca M&P Model 37 trench gun in my collection with serial # 371516xxx that was a contract over run gun made for the Thai government in 1975. Fully parkerized finish, no engraving on the receiver flats, ventilated handguard/bayonet lug and sling swivels. Guy at a gunshow tried passing it off as U.S. military issue till i pointed out it had no "U.S." stamp, no "Circle P" proof stamp and no ordnance "Flaming Bomb" acceptance stamp. He quickly accepted my offer and it was in my collection for years. Trench guns are probably the most counterfeited U.S. martial arms out there. Gary |
| I recently purchased an old Winchester 97 in excellent shape that had the barrel cut down. Since it's a takedown and had already been cut, I sent it off to Bull Creek to be converted into a trench gun. I know its not an authentic one, but having always wanted one and since i got this shotgun for a really good deal, I thought what the heck............waiting to see how it looks |
"The villainy you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction"
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I picked this up a month or so ago local for $450. Its a 1903 model that apparently started life as full length but had the riot front end put on it a long long time ago. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By NCUrk: My Father and Grandfather would come back from the afterlife if I did anything to these... Both were used to put food on the table. The Winchester 94 was my Grandfathers saddle gun while working a cattle ranch. Edited- Gramps put that rubber pad on the 97... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/269478/1000007930_jpg-3747144.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/269478/1000007927_jpg-3747145.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/269478/1000007929_jpg-3747146.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/269478/1000007928_jpg-3747147.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/269478/1000007925_jpg-3747148.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/269478/1000007926_jpg-3747149.JPG  
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Preferred pronoun: MARINE
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Originally Posted By cherenkov: https://www.ar15.com/forums/transfers.html?id=3870&z=7 And Cimarron imports the 1887 Lever Action from China - Could Easily Do some "Wild Bunch" imports. Maybe they are not considered "sporting" with Bayonet lug? If a bayonet was "common use" for any rifle back in US history - why are Bayonet lugs not protected? Cimarron used to import 1897s. I had one (no heat shield/ no bayonet lug) and it was a beautiful gun, but shooting it was a bit of a let down. I believe that mine was made by Polytech. |
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