Armory Sponsor
Do unwieldy beltfeds become boring to shoot? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/16/2025 8:12:02 AM EDT
|
I’m not really sure how to categorically define what I’m talking about, but by “unwieldy,” I mean guns that you can’t easily use for dynamic shooting and/or running around. This would exclude things like an MCR setup or maybe M60, and I’m talking more so about guns like Vickers, Maxims, M1917/1919, etc. Specifically, I’m kind of eyeballing an M1919a4, but I am wondering if it would get boring pretty quickly to just sit or lay behind it on a tripod or similar mount. The Israeli A6 kits look like they might make it a bit more mobile, but still looks like for the most part it would be limited to static shooting. It also seems like there would be a bit of a hassle just moving the thing to the range with all the weight of gun, ammo, etc. Do you guys with big beltfeds still love to shoot them years later, or is it more a situation where the thrill wears off and they rarely come out? |
|
Never gets old, but it is a lot of stuff to take to the range. A 1919 and an M2 tripod isn’t too bad to pack up at all. Something water cooled like a 1917/ Maxim is MUCH more involved to take out between sealing the water jacket, cleaning and a really heavy (40-70 lb) tripod. People I know with the water cooled guns don’t bring them out much except to go to a big shoot and put thousands of rounds down-range. Even with all the hassle, nothing puts a large volume of fire on target accurately like a heavy belt fed on a good tripod and to me that’s a lot cooler capability than a pistol caliber bullet hose. |
Just put a sling on the 1919 and you are good to go 1919 beltfed - Rambo style! |
| I have a ARES Shrike in 5.56mm that is relatively easy to setup and shoot. I've taken it out many times. The 1919 is a lot bigger and heavier plus the tripod and harder to link the rounds. It's extremely cool to shoot, but doesn't go out very often. Even the Shrike it takes me a while to link up the 5.56mm rounds. And it's so much easier to link compared. I usually just grab an UZI or something small. Stick mags are easy to load. Don't have to buy new links, or try and pick up the used links. Not to mention the cost of the ammo to feed it. I shoot way more 9mm than anything else. 5.56mm isn't too bad. But 308 is getting up there in cost. |
|
Originally Posted By the1919man: Even with all the hassle, nothing puts a large volume of fire on target accurately like a heavy belt fed on a good tripod and to me that’s a lot cooler capability than a pistol caliber bullet hose. What kind of range and targets do you usually shoot it on? I could see the tripod shooting being pretty fun if you had a long range going out several hundred yards with steel targets at different ranges. Blasting a belt into a paper target at 100yds seems like it might lose its fun. |
|
I wouldn't say boring, but it gets so you have to have a pretty good reason to want to bring one to the range Set up with the stock and bipod it's a little more manageable for range trips and it's at least possible for one person to carry both the gun and ammo. The distance from where you park to the firing line can become a big deal. You definitely aren't going to be "running and gunning" with a 1919 in any configuration. I have known a couple of guys who liked nothing better than to set up their belt fed on a tripod and just fire umpteen belts straight into one spot on the berm. |
Not a day passes over the earth, but men and women of no note do great deeds, speak great words, and suffer noble sorrows. Charles Reade
|
Originally Posted By cmw: I wouldn't say boring, but it gets so you have to have a pretty good reason to want to bring one to the range Set up with the stock and bipod it's a little more manageable for range trips and it's at least possible for one person to carry both the gun and ammo. The distance from where you park to the firing line can become a big deal. You definitely aren't going to be "running and gunning" with a 1919 in any configuration. I have known a couple of guys who liked nothing better than to set up their belt fed on a tripod and just fire umpteen belts straight into one spot on the berm. Is there much of a learning curve or challenge in hitting what you are aiming at? The guns I shoot the most tend to be ones where there is some level of challenge that requires practice to improve or keep your skills fresh. The ones that don’t seem very challenging tend to stay in my safe. I’ve never been much for mag dumping into a berm (no judgment intended for those that enjoy that). My wife and I have been looking at buying some acreage that would allow for a nice steel target range setup (at least that is the plan), but there isn’t anywhere around me that allows for really fun stuff like blowing up cars Knob Creek style. |
| Have any of y'all mounted (or made it mountable) your belt feds onto a mobile platform? Say a Jeep, HMMWV, Deuce and a half, truck, helicopter, etc? Something that's always intrigued me (have had a bunch of Jeeps, had a HMMWV up until a few months ago, probably another one in my future, maybe LOL). |
| I had a M37 (AKA a modernized 1919A4). I never really liked taking it out to shoot and shooting it was boring. My collection centers around very controllable LMGs and SMGs. I love shooting steel at long range with LMGs keeping a 3 round burst on the steel. I have friends with the water cooled guns and they are neat for collecting all the bull shit but dragging them out and shooting them is not for me. Hell even the mini guns are boring. Once you have fired one then its meh after that. If you have some sort of moving reactive targets I can see where that changes things but running cars can be very dangerous (funny afterwards if none of the old shooters don't drop dead from a heart attack) and having a location that you can shoot at flying R/C planes is rare these days. |
If God didn't want them sheared, he would not have made them sheep.
| I love my 1919 / FN30 MG. It's such a classic MG and I never get tired of firing it. We have a decent collection of MG's, but the FN30 is definitely in the top 10 for me. |
|
MGs that weigh more than about 30 lbs and require lots of setup usually turn into special occasion shooters. Maybe you take them to that once a year all day MG shoot or when family comes over for the 4th of July cook out kind of thing. I wouldn’t recommend a large belt fed as a first MG. A M1919 would make a good second or third MG in the collection. for the first I would go with something that is portable, versatile, and cheap to shoot. For most people that’s an M16, Mac, or HK. At the end of the day it’s your money, buy what you want. If you have your heart set on a M1919 go for it. Just understand you probably won’t shoot it as often as an M16. But if it’s what you really want you will get more enjoyment out of shooting it 1-2 times a year than shooting an M16 twice a month that you didn’t really want but someone else convinced you to buy. |
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery". - Thomas Jefferson
|
Lots of truth here. I’ve shot plenty of beltfeds but only recently became a beltfed owner. Someone once told me that a normal MG is dating while a beltfeds is a marriage. That’s pretty much true. Excepting the M60, 1919A6, M240/249, M16 upper conversions, etc., most beltfeds need a tripod. Those add to weight and take up room. The beltfeds itself usually isn’t a lightweight affair. Watercooled need water and the accessories that go with the water. Cloth belts don’t last as long as steel links but sure weigh less. Then there’s the belt loader, a case big enough for the gun, etc. It’s way easier to grab a SMG or battle rifle to go to the range. And I’ve had ranges which allow rifle caliber ask me not to shoot the beltfed. Run ‘n gun isn’t a thing with beltfeds. But they weren’t designed for that in the first place. Choose the gun and this which suits your life and what you want to do. |
“Don't post anything here or send anything you aren't willing to defend in court.”
-Notcalifornialegal
-Notcalifornialegal
| I think targetry and range options makes the difference. Tripods and T&Es work better for longer distances and more than just basic targets. I recently got to spend more than my fair share of time messing with an M2 on a tripod shooting at vehicles out to 2k, and its way more fun than any other time I've shot it at a 100-200 yd range. |
|
1919s are one of those things that you really want to have to shoot when you decide you want to take it to the range. Lots of stuff has to go with you. I have a large heavy stand up tripod and the cradle for it or can do the ground tripod. Ammo, belts and loader, tripod etc. The good news it’s a belt fed, spare parts are available, belts make it easy to shoot in that you just pick up the spent belt, lots of caliber choices. |
|
Thanks for the perspectives. I have shot beltfeds a few times at shows, but that doesn’t really give me a great perspective of what it is like to live with one of these machines or even what it would be like to shoot a full range day with one of them. For FA, I currently mostly shoot a variety of subguns. The next obvious “must have” is an M16, but in the present era of Super Safeties, I am balking at the idea of spending that much money on a gun that offers an almost identical experience to what I already have for 1/35 the price. Even though I am more of a shooter than a collector, I think I would almost struggle to justify taking the real thing out and putting wear and tear on such a valuable gun when I could just burn down an SS AR without concern. Regarding the M1919, I love the idea, but I don’t currently have access to a range that would make the most of its capabilities in terms of “targetry and range options” as Madcap aptly phrased it. The Israeli A6 kit appeals to me much more than a tripod (which would help with transport) but as many have noted, it still seems like it would take a lot of motivation to pack everything up and head to the range. For those of you that shoot beltfeds on your own private property, do you find yourself getting a lot of attention from neighbors/LEO? Unless you have tons of property or live in the absolute middle of nowhere, I could see it irritating lots of neighbors if you had a long range day with it. |
|
No belt feds, but when I first got into machine guns, I used to call the sheriff's office when I shot my machine guns as suggested by dealer (Who has since passed away RIP) Neighbors never minded so I no longer bother. I also do it at reasonable hours of the day. RCA |
|
I've never gotten bored shooting a belt fed. I know they get to be a pain packing them around and setting them up etc. (I've never owned my own, but know people that have and do) |
“How dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?”
|
Originally Posted By Spartikis: MGs that weigh more than about 30 lbs and require lots of setup usually turn into special occasion shooters. Maybe you take them to that once a year all day MG shoot or when family comes over for the 4th of July cook out kind of thing. I wouldn't recommend a large belt fed as a first MG. A M1919 would make a good second or third MG in the collection. for the first I would go with something that is portable, versatile, and cheap to shoot. For most people that's an M16, Mac, or HK. At the end of the day it's your money, buy what you want. If you have your heart set on a M1919 go for it. Just understand you probably won't shoot it as often and an M16. But if it's what your really want you will get more enjoyment out of shooting it 1-2 times a year than shooting an M16 twice a month that you didn't really want but someone else convinced you to buy. Heavy tripod only MG's are super cool but I enjoy feeling the recoil of SMG's and shoulder fired MG's more. |
| I bought a 43 gpw for my 1919a4. It mostly sports a replica m2, but it helps saving me from having to carry the tripod and t&e as long as I just free gun it. Again, I'm limited on ranges I can drive onto. |
''Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.''
|
Originally Posted By amphibian: Heavy tripod only MG's are super cool but I enjoy feeling the recoil of SMG's and shoulder fired MG's more. Honestly that is half the allure to the Israeli A6 conversion kit to me (the other half being not needing a tripod). It’s got a bipod and stock, so the shooter is a bit more physically engaged in the shooting process. |
|
At 61, I can never imagine it's too much work bringing a belt gun to the range. I bring my M60 E6 out all the time and shoot 800-1000 rnds each time. I also bring the AA tripod with me and the gear required. Bought way too much .308 years ago when it was $.14 cents around delivered back in 1990ish... Still shootin' I'll let ya know when it gets old! |
|
Originally Posted By KavonTN: I bought a 43 gpw for my 1919a4. It mostly sports a replica m2, but it helps saving me from having to carry the tripod and t&e as long as I just free gun it. Again, I'm limited on ranges I can drive onto. Are there any ranges in GA particularly well-suited for letting the M1919 loose? |
|
Originally Posted By sgthatred: I love shooting steel at long range with LMGs keeping a 3 round burst on the steel. Me too. I have access to several ranges with steel at distances out to 600 yards, 1200 yards, and one out to a mile. Connecting with steel at 200-400 yds with 2-3 round bursts is really fun. |
|
Originally Posted By peachy: Thanks for the perspectives. I have shot beltfeds a few times at shows, but that doesn’t really give me a great perspective of what it is like to live with one of these machines or even what it would be like to shoot a full range day with one of them. For FA, I currently mostly shoot a variety of subguns. The next obvious “must have” is an M16, but in the present era of Super Safeties, I am balking at the idea of spending that much money on a gun that offers an almost identical experience to what I already have for 1/35 the price. Even though I am more of a shooter than a collector, I think I would almost struggle to justify taking the real thing out and putting wear and tear on such a valuable gun when I could just burn down an SS AR without concern. . It’s still absolutely worth owning a transferable M16. The FRTs and super safeties, while cool are not the same pedigree as owning the real deal. |
|
Originally Posted By JoshNC: It’s still absolutely worth owning a transferable M16. The FRTs and super safeties, while cool are not the same pedigree as owning the real deal. Don’t get me wrong, I am not equating the products, but the user experience is more or less equivalent. There’s no doubt one has collector value while the other doesn’t, but that is a lot of money to not really unlock a new shooter experience. Alternatively, I could buy give or take 70,000rds with that money. |
| Where in GA are you? I am a member of Cherokee in Gainesville and they allow mg on one of the pistol bays. I have a sub cal 22 kit I've shot there once. Red hill has an open MG shoot once or twice a year. Also, I am fortunate enough to work at a place with indoor ranges that have vehicle access. (25 and 100yd) but i can set up whatever targets I want when the range is not reserved. |
''Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.''
|
I used to own almost 60 acres and would shoot machine guns there. As far as I know the neighbors never complained but I did call the state police who were responsible for that area and let them know before hand to at least save them the trip. I have an M151 with a pedestal mount and was going to rig something up on my side by side but ended up losing the property in my divorce. I mostly shoot sub guns, the others go out less often like my Valmet M78 and I’m sure the Jap type 99 and Lewis gun I’m getting will fall into that category and the 1919 even less often. |
|
Originally Posted By KavonTN: Where in GA are you? I am a member of Cherokee in Gainesville and they allow mg on one of the pistol bays. I have a sub cal 22 kit I've shot there once. Red hill has an open MG shoot once or twice a year. Also, I am fortunate enough to work at a place with indoor ranges that have vehicle access. (25 and 100yd) but i can set up whatever targets I want when the range is not reserved. I’m in the Marietta area. I need to make it up to Red Hill. Unfortunately I am not aware of any outdoor ranges that are less than about an hour drive. I’m hoping to buy some acreage in N. GA in the next year or so though. |
|
Originally Posted By TreddBarton: I love my 1919 / FN30 MG. It's such a classic MG and I never get tired of firing it. We have a decent collection of MG's, but the FN30 is definitely in the top 10 for me. WOW!! I kept on SCROLLING and SCROLLING on your inventory page....AMAZING!! That 1919 is BEAUTIFUL!! |
| A question on secure storage - for those with belt feds / larger MG's...can / do they easily fit in a safe? Or are they in a place of prominence (ie - living room, the NFA dealer that was my neighbor kept a 1917 on the tripod as the "welcome to my home" greeting / statement piece in his foyer!!) that is secure? Just curious on the best way to safely secure these items. All my stuff resides in a very full safe...I know, buy another / bigger safe LOL!! |
|
I say this as someone who has been lucky to have shot tens of thousands of rounds of beltfed and full auto AR, as well as MP5 9mm, Thompson .45, plus tons of 40mm, etc, etc. If money was no object, then do what you want. But if I were going to go the NFA route I would start with .223 or 9mm, because feeding these things can be a pain. You really need the right range setup to enjoy beltfed properly, i.e. reactive targets, tracers, hundreds of yards, the whole deal. Meanwhile with any 9mm subgun, you can just point at some cardboard and let it rip. I don't know that I ever "miss" getting to shoot beltfed, even though it is fun, whereas I'd love to have an MP5 to play with at the range at the end of a training session. The advantage to a MAC, or AR NFA, is that for not a lot of money (a few thousand) you can have extra uppers in different configurations and calibers. So you can have one NFA item, but a bunch of guns, effectively. I don't know of a similar setup with belt feds. For example, on an AR, you could have a .22, 9mm, .45, .223, etc. I also think the days of cheap .308 or .30-06, or 8mm, are long over, and this is reflected somewhat in the price of NFA beltfeds. For overall "cool" or "fun", I think MP5 and Tommy Gun are pretty hard to beat - very easy to shoot well, very controllable for new shooters. |
|
Originally Posted By peachy: Is there much of a learning curve or challenge in hitting what you are aiming at? The guns I shoot the most tend to be ones where there is some level of challenge that requires practice to improve or keep your skills fresh. The ones that don’t seem very challenging tend to stay in my safe. I’ve never been much for mag dumping into a berm (no judgment intended for those that enjoy that). My wife and I have been looking at buying some acreage that would allow for a nice steel target range setup (at least that is the plan), but there isn’t anywhere around me that allows for really fun stuff like blowing up cars Knob Creek style. Originally Posted By peachy: Originally Posted By cmw: I wouldn't say boring, but it gets so you have to have a pretty good reason to want to bring one to the range Set up with the stock and bipod it's a little more manageable for range trips and it's at least possible for one person to carry both the gun and ammo. The distance from where you park to the firing line can become a big deal. You definitely aren't going to be "running and gunning" with a 1919 in any configuration. I have known a couple of guys who liked nothing better than to set up their belt fed on a tripod and just fire umpteen belts straight into one spot on the berm. Is there much of a learning curve or challenge in hitting what you are aiming at? The guns I shoot the most tend to be ones where there is some level of challenge that requires practice to improve or keep your skills fresh. The ones that don’t seem very challenging tend to stay in my safe. I’ve never been much for mag dumping into a berm (no judgment intended for those that enjoy that). My wife and I have been looking at buying some acreage that would allow for a nice steel target range setup (at least that is the plan), but there isn’t anywhere around me that allows for really fun stuff like blowing up cars Knob Creek style. On a tripod, you just spin the wheels and you will shoot all the rounds into tight little groups. "Fun" requires a specialized range, i.e. a popup range, etc, where you can quickly try to walk the gun around from target to target until you get impact. So if you had unlimited funds and ample BLM lands, you could buy a few Larue auto-resetting targets and have the time of your life. Bonus points if you have a good spotter. But otherwise I think belt feds gets a little boring and you would have more fun with something like a M82A1 (and spend less per range trip). Belt feds are a supporting weapon and designed around delivering an accurate "volume" of fire from area to area. So they are big and heavy in most cases, with the weight often doubled by the tripod. |
|
Originally Posted By Middlelength: On a tripod, you just spin the wheels and you will shoot all the rounds into tight little groups. "Fun" requires a specialized range, i.e. a popup range, etc, where you can quickly try to walk the gun around from target to target until you get impact. So if you had unlimited funds and ample BLM lands, you could buy a few Larue auto-resetting targets and have the time of your life. Bonus points if you have a good spotter. But otherwise I think belt feds gets a little boring and you would have more fun with something like a M82A1 (and spend less per range trip). Belt feds are a supporting weapon and designed around delivering an accurate "volume" of fire from area to area. So they are big and heavy in most cases, with the weight often doubled by the tripod. Whereas an HK21E, HK23E, and a Fightlight beltfed upper on an m16 lower are all great fun off a bipod, standup tripod, or just offhand. Shooting steel with controlled bursts is very satisfying. |
Moderate-Length Barrel Evangelist
Joined:
Jun 2022
Posts:
4139
EE: 100% (11)
USA
Joined:
Jul 2022
Posts:
30
EE: 0% (0)
NV, USA
Joined:
Jun 2023
Posts:
82
EE: 0% (0)
IN, USA
|
Originally Posted By Middlelength: I say this as someone who has been lucky to have shot tens of thousands of rounds of beltfed and full auto AR, as well as MP5 9mm, Thompson .45, plus tons of 40mm, etc, etc. If money was no object, then do what you want. But if I were going to go the NFA route I would start with .223 or 9mm, because feeding these things can be a pain. You really need the right range setup to enjoy beltfed properly, i.e. reactive targets, tracers, hundreds of yards, the whole deal. Meanwhile with any 9mm subgun, you can just point at some cardboard and let it rip. I don't know that I ever "miss" getting to shoot beltfed, even though it is fun, whereas I'd love to have an MP5 to play with at the range at the end of a training session. The advantage to a MAC, or AR NFA, is that for not a lot of money (a few thousand) you can have extra uppers in different configurations and calibers. So you can have one NFA item, but a bunch of guns, effectively. I don't know of a similar setup with belt feds. For example, on an AR, you could have a .22, 9mm, .45, .223, etc. I also think the days of cheap .308 or .30-06, or 8mm, are long over, and this is reflected somewhat in the price of NFA beltfeds. For overall "cool" or "fun", I think MP5 and Tommy Gun are pretty hard to beat - very easy to shoot well, very controllable for new shooters. Beltfed 9mm doesn't need a long range and works great on steel or paper 
|
Joined:
Jun 2023
Posts:
83
EE: 0% (0)
IN, USA
|
Originally Posted By LawyerUp: M60 is a PITA to deal w/ the links and not losing them. But worth it. Every once in a while. I would happily deal with the links if I owned and M60. M60E6 is on my bucket list to own. |
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery". - Thomas Jefferson
|
Originally Posted By Spartikis: I would happily deal with the links if I owned and M60. M60E6 is on my bucket list to own. I primarily shoot mine off a custom mount I built that feeds belted ammo from an ammo can on one side and catches all the links and brass in an ammo can on the other side. I have the same option for my 23E and 1919 as well. Friends of mine run brass link catchers on their shrikes for the same reason. M60 and 23E  1919 setup  There was a question about storage and I can fit a bunch of beltfeds into my safes. One of my gun safes right now has a M2HB, 1919A4, a MM21E, MM23E, HK23E, M249, and a Shrike M16 in it along with a bunch of other guns. Personally, I don't think that beltfeds get boring any more than any other machineguns get boring. They all have their pros/cons. Obviously mag fed subguns are a lot easier to take to the range, cheaper to shoot, more places will let you shoot them, etc. However the experience with a large beltfed is different and if you go to bigger machinegun shoots that is where they really shine. Being able to have belts of ammo pre-linked, the ability to swap barrels without cool down, more accurate aimed fire at extended ranges off a tripod along with a T&E mech, etc. If you have a couple rifle caliber mag fed machineguns (M16, etc.) than its a nice variety to have a bigger tripod mounted gun for something different. Most transferable beltfeds with the exception of the Shrike/MCR, most owners are not going to be running around with them and shooting them off the shoulder. Even the lighter 308 air cooled beltfeds like the M60E4 and 21E in my experience are really more than your average middle aged guy is going to be able to hold up and shoot off the shoulder safely at a range, much less run around with it and shoot it safely. These guns still weigh ~25lbs loaded up with an optic and ammo. I am not saying it can't be done and I am still capable of shooing the mid sized 30cal beltfed off the shoulder with a good degree of accuracy but almost none of my other shooting friends can shoulder them up and fire them in a controlled manner. So even those medium sized GPMGs are going to be primarily bipod or tripod shooters for most owners and their friends. Now the M2HB is a whole other deal as its a big commitment to take out as everything on that gun is big and heavy. The gun/receiver, barrel(s), tripod, mount+T&E, ammo, and even 50BMG rated targets, etc. all add up quick. The M2HB is easily hundreds of pounds of gear to take that gun out to the range. However there isn't really a comparable experience to a belt fed 50 either. The primarily limiting factor on how often I shoot the M2 is more of a limitation on places you can safely shoot and to a secondary extent of the $4 a round cost where even a very basic range visit of 250rd is ~$1000 in ammo.  |
|
Originally Posted By the1919man: Never gets old, but it is a lot of stuff to take to the range. A 1919 and an M2 tripod isn't too bad to pack up at all. Something water cooled like a 1917/ Maxim is MUCH more involved to take out between sealing the water jacket, cleaning and a really heavy (40-70 lb) tripod. People I know with the water cooled guns don't bring them out much except to go to a big shoot and put thousands of rounds down-range. Even with all the hassle, nothing puts a large volume of fire on target accurately like a heavy belt fed on a good tripod and to me that's a lot cooler capability than a pistol caliber bullet hose. |
What’s the difference between pancakes and a Mini-14? Pancakes hit the spot.-dvanblaricom
Do unwieldy beltfeds become boring to shoot? (Page 1 of 2)
Armory Sponsor