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Posted: 10/7/2012 8:25:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Firestarter123][Edited]
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So at the gun show today I got a good deal on an RT-1200B. It came with .223 and 300 Whisper trim dies. Having just sized ~4000 cases on a Hornady 00-7 press and trimming them now with the Giraud (~2300 done) I was curious how they would look side-by-side. The photo is interesting but first a little about setup. Setup: 1) The Giraud is VERY easy to set up for length. The chamfer/debur is somewhat of a pain for me to get right. I bet it took me 20 cases to get it exactly where I wanted it. I had never modified it from how it was sent but wasn't really happy with it initially as I always felt it deburred a bit too much. After about 1500 cases during this last batch I decided to change it. While it was a pain I think it is set now to where I am happy. It took me about 1 hour until I was happy. 2) The Dillon was even easier than the Giraud. I used a Dillon case gauge and set the sizing/trim die to set headspace properly according to the gauge and used a Hornady lock ring to allow for ease of repeating. Once done I trimmed the case on the Giraud and put it back into the Dillon die. I then screwed on the RT-1200B and put it down to where the cutter was touching the case and backed it off an 1/8th turn (the 00-7 press cams over). I locked the jam nut down and turned on the trimmer. It was within .0005" the first case so I left it  This whole process took maybe 10 minutes.3) The Possum Hollow was also easy to set up using a case that was already the proper length. One set screw to loosen, put the sized case it, tighten the set screw, and you are done. Then simply insert it into the power adapter and tighten the set screw. I used a drill press at 3000rpm to trim and while it worked well it was very un-nerving having it go that fast with the whole assembly spinning. WEAR NO LOOSE CLOTHING!!!! Sizing/Trimming: I sized/trimmed 10 cases of varying brands in each and the Dillon varied from 1.7495"-1.7505" while the Giraud varied a bit more....1.7485"-1.7520". This is to be expected though as they size differently I believe since different brands of cases will have different springback of the shoulder. The Possum Hollow was right in the same ballpark as the other two and varied from 1.749"-1.751". Overall: I like them both but they both have things I don't care for. The Giraud is expensive......it is worth it as it is extremely easy to change calibers and do a lot of brass fast but it is expensive. It also is harder to setup the debur/chamfer and have it come out even all-around the case (I know to spin the case) as well as just barely debur while still chamfering enough. The Possum Hollow works as intended but deburring and chamfering will be necessary if my test cases are any indication. While the cut is pretty nice it leaves a fairly large burr compared to the other two. It is better though than my manual Forster. I had hoped high speed would be the solution to that but it doesn't solve it completely. For $25 + $10 for the power adapter the Possum Hollow is a great value but it just doesn't compare to the Dillon and Giraud in the quality of the cut in the samples I have done. It is, however, almost as fast as the Giraud but just doesn't debur/chamfer. The Dillon isn't as easy to change calibers as it doesn't allow for the use of a lock ring to keep your depth of trim on the die thus you will have to redo it every time. Also, the vacuum and the fact that the trimmer itself is heavy makes it a bit more awkward to work with. The fact though that I can lube, size, and trim on my 550B (lube die in station 1 and trim die in station 3) with one pull of the handle does outweigh that though. I would also argue that with a quick tumble what little burr is left (which is hardly any as you can see in the pictures makes the need to chamfer/debur unnecessary. With a RCBS universal decapping die using a Hornady carbide expander ball installed in station 1 while loading thus removing any burr and knocking out the primer (I don't generally clean primer pockets) it allows for a tremendous time savings as I don't have to handle the cases as much. Finally, here is a comparison picture. They are both excellent trimmers but it would be very hard to beat the Dillon with a XL650 and a case feeder to go with it as you could put the lube die in station 1, trimmer/sizer in station 3, and the decapping/expanding die in station 5 and still allow you to tumble once without primers in the cases to somewhat clean them. Let me know what you think and ask any questions you can think of and I will try and answer. One question I have is does anyone make a lock ring that has the same threads as the trimmer? The Hornady and all other standard die lock rings are different it appears. Dillon on the left, Giraud on the right. Ignore the little piece of whatever it is on the Dillon trimmed piece. I think it may just be a piece of lint or something I didn't see after wiping lube off of the case. Here are a couple of pictures with all 3 samples trimmed. It was hard to get all of them in focus for me even with my Canon Rebel but I will take requests to try again if anyone wants me to 1) Dillon top, Possum Hollow lower left, and Giraud lower right. 2) Dillon left, Possum Hollow center, Giraud right. It is pretty evident in this one that the burr is significant on the Possum Hollow comparing it to the Dillon case which has virtually no burr. |
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Currently my plan is to keep them both as if I ever get a XL650 and a case feeder I can't imagine a faster way to prep brass.
The Giraud is easier to use overall even though the setting of the chamfer/debur is a bit more difficult but man you could crank out a lot of brass fast with a case feeder and an XL650 or LNL AP. The biggest plus to the Dillon is not having to handle the cases 2 times to trim and size. Also, there are no sore fingers, however, it isn't likely that I could crank out 750 pieces of brass without having to take a break while sizing + trimming like I can with the Giraud. Right now it will be awhile before I use either since I am just about done trimming the 4k pieces of brass I just sized. I am also slightly fearful of sticking a case in the Dillon trimmer since the die is $50. I have a stuck case remover but still it is a concern. |
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I have 2 650's and use my RT-1200 on several toolheads. I adjust the trimmer die in the toolhead for correct headspace, and use a second lock nut underneath the toolhead- tighten them TIGHT, then double check headspace,adjusting if needed.
Then install the trimmer- run a piece of trimmed brass up, screw the trimmer down until it touches the case mouth, lock it down and test, adjusting as needed. Lube is Dillon Case lube. You can spray it into a gallon zip-lock, add brass (1-2 quarts) shake/roll the bag for 1 minute and it's ready. I then dump it into the case feeder and process at about 12-15 pieces per minute. All done without handling individual pieces, except when chamfering primer pockets. |
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Originally Posted By jlficken: This is the main reason I went with the Dillon. Saves a lot of time. Trimming is no longer a chore at all. Cases are decapped, sized, and trimmed all on the same pass thru the press.The biggest plus to the Dillon is not having to handle the cases 2 times to trim and size. Originally Posted By jlficken: Since the Dillon die has an open top, if you were to stick a case, just remove the trimmer from the die and tap the stuck case down with a flat faced punch.I am also slightly fearful of sticking a case in the Dillon trimmer since the die is $50. I have a stuck case remover but still it is a concern. The Dillon does not chamfer the inside of the case mouth, but running the cases thru the case tumbler (dry corncob) takes the burr off the outside and removes the case lube. Even with flat based bullets, the lack of a chamfer has never been a problem for me. I love my Dillon trimmer.
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| I've sized nearly ten thousand 223 cases using my Dillion RT1200 and never had a stuck case. My procedure is to use a unversal decapper/lube die on station one of my 550. The trimmer/sizing die is in position two. By seperating the sizing from the decapping, I find that the chaces of a stuck case is vastly reduced. On position four, the final stage of my press, I have a 223 sizing die threaded down just far down enought to size a small portion (.250" length) of the neck. This helps to remove both the outside and inside neck burrs. I load directly after trimming. I give all my completed ammunition a light tumble in treated walnut shells. This allows me to removed the lube and polish the brass well enough that I can give al my brass a final look before stashing my amunition for future range trips. |
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Even though the RT1200 doesn't chamfer or deburr, I have found that running the cases through a FL sizing die after sizing/trimming will iron out any minor burr left on the case mouth.
It seems that many people are depriming before sizing with the Dillon, but since I've been sizing and trimming prior to depriming and FL sizing, I've found that I like the results better. |
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The Dillon isn't as easy to change calibers as it doesn't allow for the use of a lock ring to keep your depth of trim on the die thus you will have to redo it every time. This is fixed easily. I trim 223, 308 & 30-06 and resetting them was an issue. So I bought a couple of extra lock rings from Dillon (they are a weird size), and drilled & tapped a set screw. Once I had all of them set up and locked, I don't have to worry about setting the depth of the cut. Here's a pic of the die & lock ring.  |
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That is a great idea!!! Did you use a brass tipped set screw like the one on the ram of a 550B or some other kind?
I will have to find a part number for those rings and get a couple as that is a major pet peeve of mine but the only one I have found so far. |
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Does the dillon chamfer the inside of the case?
I have a Giraud. I have it on a 550 Dillon (I know, antique), and I size the case in station one, take it out and trim with the Giraud on a table beside me, put it back, rotate and repeat. it's better than resizing a bunch, and then trimming, and goes pretty fast once you get a rythym. |
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The Dillon does NOT chamfer or debur the case like the Giraud but honestly after seeing the results and comparing them in person (the picture is in my original post) I truly don't believe that it is needed unless as the cut is precise and doesn't leave a burr. If you think it is necessary to remove what little burr there is my plan is to use either a RCBS Universal Decapping Die or RCBS Lube Die #1 paired with a Lyman Carbide Expander/Decapping Assembly in station 1 when I go to load the rounds (or possibly in station 4 if it will fit with the trimmer installed) to remove any burr that may remain on the inside of the case neck. Here is a video that kind of shows my thoughts:  Dillon XL1200 on a 550 B Reloading Machine |
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What does everyone think of my proposed setup on my 550B utilizing the RT-1200B instead of the Giraud? Case Prep: Station 1: RCBS Lube Die w/ decapping rod (optionally replace decapping rod w/ Hornady carbide expander/decapping rod to ensure round case necks before sizing) Station 2: Empty Station 3: Dillon RT-1200B w/ appropriate Dillon trim die Station 4: Empty Vacum: Shop Vac Micro Loading: Station 1: RCBS Universal decapping die w/ Hornady carbide expander/decapping rod Station 2: Powder die w/ powder funnel and powder measure Station 3: Bullet seating die Station 4: Lee factory crimp die I have read some negatives on the RCBS Lube Die so it could always be replaced with the RCBS Universal Decapping Die and I can continue to spray the cases with One Shot (I know some don't like it but I have sized 6000+ trouble free cases so far following the directions.....and 1 stuck case when I first started and didn't read the directions  )Also, after looking a lot this post shows how to modify your 550B case feeder to run .223, .308, and .300 Blackout. I am VERY, VERY interested in trying this at some point. Also, for .300 Blackout on the 550B you have to either purchase a milled down tool head from C4HD, Dillon, or GSI that will allow you to use the trim die and have the shavings port exposed. You also have the option of getting an extended shell holder from Redding or RCBS and using your single stage so that the size/trim die is raised up enough to expose the shavings ports. |
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I've been watching this thread with interest. Well done jlficken. I'm going to set the toggle (green icon next to the thread title) to keep this thread out of the archives. jlficken, to find this thread in the future, click on My Topics and it will be there. |
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Thanks dryflash3! I spent a lot of time gathering information so I figured this was as good of a place as any to consolidate it.
I did ~650 cases last night in 50 minutes on the Giraud and it is a mighty impressive machine. The only real advantages that the Dillon seems to have is the fact that you size and trim with one pull of the handle and don't have to touch the case if you have a case feeder but that comes at the expense of it not doing a chamfur/debur like the Giraud. It seems to come down to which is more important to you. I have concluded that depending on what I am doing I will use both...Giraud for match ammo and Dillon for plinking. If I could only have one though it would be the Giraud as it seems easier overall to use and set up. If all I did though was high volume loading that would probably change. |
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Originally Posted By jlficken:
That is a great idea!!! Did you use a brass tipped set screw like the one on the ram of a 550B or some other kind? IBDF3TUALS - In before dryflash3 tells us about lead shot! You can also use a snipped off piece of quality weedeater string between the set screw and the die body. I got the idea a few years back when I got my 300 Whisper trim die from CH4D. I will let dryflash explain his method. jonblack |
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jonblack, I never would have thought of using a piece of lead shot.....that is a great idea! I think I understand what you are saying and will have to give that a try as I remember it being mentioned somewhere before and just forgot about it. Btw, the Possum Hollow Carbide Kwick Trim Die that I ordered last week (before I stumbled on the Dillon) should be here today. If I can borrow one of the power adapters from strat81 (everyone was out when I ordered the trimmer) I will put a picture up in the OP with all 3 trimmed cases side-by-side so that I have all of the major trimmers in one topic. |
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Originally Posted By Ronnie_B:
I have 2 650's and use my RT-1200 on several toolheads. I adjust the trimmer die in the toolhead for correct headspace, and use a second lock nut underneath the toolhead- tighten them TIGHT, then double check headspace,adjusting if needed. Then install the trimmer- run a piece of trimmed brass up, screw the trimmer down until it touches the case mouth, lock it down and test, adjusting as needed. Lube is Dillon Case lube. You can spray it into a gallon zip-lock, add brass (1-2 quarts) shake/roll the bag for 1 minute and it's ready. I then dump it into the case feeder and process at about 12-15 pieces per minute. All done without handling individual pieces, except when chamfering primer pockets. Case feeder? .223/5.56? Dillon model? My 550B case feeder doesn't do rifle per Dillon catalog. 
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Originally Posted By Smokey99:
Originally Posted By Ronnie_B:
I have 2 650's and use my RT-1200 on several toolheads. I adjust the trimmer die in the toolhead for correct headspace, and use a second lock nut underneath the toolhead- tighten them TIGHT, then double check headspace,adjusting if needed. Then install the trimmer- run a piece of trimmed brass up, screw the trimmer down until it touches the case mouth, lock it down and test, adjusting as needed. Lube is Dillon Case lube. You can spray it into a gallon zip-lock, add brass (1-2 quarts) shake/roll the bag for 1 minute and it's ready. I then dump it into the case feeder and process at about 12-15 pieces per minute. All done without handling individual pieces, except when chamfering primer pockets. Case feeder? .223/5.56? Dillon model? My 550B case feeder doesn't do rifle per Dillon catalog. While it is true that Ronnie_B uses 2 XL650's that have case feeders according to this post it is possible to use a 550B case feeder and modify it to feed .308, .223, and .300 Blackout. Someday I will try it and have the best reloading machine for me that I could imagine if it works as well as he states. |
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Answering some questions in previous post. Some of us are using Lyman's M die to smooth case neck inner cut. I feel it necessary, especially loading flat base bullets. I size with a Dillon carbide sizer in station one and set trim die high in station four so it does not size.Station four allows vacuum attachment. In doing so my trim heights are more consitent. Sure it's necessary to remove media from flash holes since station one on my loading tool heads stations M die.
I use Dillon retaining nut on top and Lee lock ring on bottom, the more trimmer is used the tighter Lee lock ring gets. |
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Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Answering some questions in previous post. Some of us are using Lyman's M die to smooth case neck inner cut. I feel it necessary, especially loading flat base bullets. I size with a Dillon carbide sizer in station one and set trim die high in station four so it does not size.Station four allows vacuum attachment. In doing so my trim heights are more consitent. Sure it's necessary to remove media from flash holes since station one on my loading tool heads stations M die. I use Dillon retaining nut on top and Lee lock ring on bottom, the more trimmer is used the tighter Lee lock ring gets. I assume from reading your previous posts that you are using an XL650 correct? Thanks for the tips on the M die (for possible use) and the lock rings. I have a bunch of the rings laying around. |
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Yes, running dedicated tool head for sizing and trimming. Second tool head for loading. My first set-up was RCBS lube die in station one, trimmer in three and M die in station five. Lube die requires attention every one hundred rounds. It's collecting rust somewhere around here. Worst piece of reloading hardware I've bought to date.
My routine is clean, tumble brass, then coat well inside/out of case necks with Dillon spray lube. Afterwards run through size\trim tool head. Then tumble again briefly, clean primer pockets and load. I don't consider anything .223 loaded on 650 to be long range match grade. LR match grade gets done single stage and trimmed with lathe type trimmer. This is where the Giraurd trimmer shines. Someday I'll have both. For now Giraurd won't cut me any slack on price. 
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Another alternative for the 650 and 223 set up hat I use and I'm satisfied with is: Station 1: Dillon size / decapping die. Slightly sizes the case but does not set back the shoulder. Also removes the spent primer. Station 2: Empty Station 3: Trim die. Finishes sizing and trimming the case Station 4: Empty Station 5: Lyman "M" die set to slightly hit the case mouth to smooth out the cut and slightly expanding the mouth of the case so boat tail bullets and flat base bullets can easily be started in the case. NOTE: With this set up the standard Dillon tool head pin can not be used due to the size of the trimmer. I used a cut down nail that I turned down to the right diameter to snugly fit the holes in the tool head. It can only be put in and removed with the 1200's plastic exhaust port removed. After processing the brass I tumble off the lube and load them up on the 1050, but I used the 650 for a couple of years. Station 1 on the reloading head had a universal decapping die to poke any media out of the flash hole of the cartridge case. So far this set up and system has been working very well for me! |
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A couple of questions for the OP. Glad to find this thread as I am ready to purchase something that requires electricity vs my old hands.
On the Dillon RT, are you using two separate sizing dies? Station one sizes and decaps and then the die in the in the RT also sizes? Does the die for the RT have a decapping pin? I just don't understand why Dillon would incorporate a sizing die with the trimmer. I was seriously getting ready to buy the Possum Hollow. It has great reviews and you can't beat the price. I was going to trim all brass then run it through my RCBS prep station. The only issue I have with the prep station is the "outside" cutting tool is slow. Maybe I don't have the right tool / attachment. The inside chamfer works pretty good and can chamfer in about two seconds. |
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First-Great write-up OP!
Second-I'm a Possum Hollow/RCBS prep center user, but I am going to get the Giraud or get the Dillon and mount it to my LNL AP. I used a friend's Giraud and the speed compared to my Possum Hollow/RCBS can't be compared. If I go with the Dillon, I can make it part of my decap/size process that I run anyway, so it gains me more time than the Giraud. On the other hand, the Giraud can be available to trim regardless of what is in the press. Decisions, decisions..... |
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lockinload, My plan is to use a RCBS Lube Die #1 paired with a Lyman Carbide Expander/Decapping Assembly in station 1 during the sizing run to knock out the primer and make sure the case neck is round. Then when I go to load the rounds I will use a RCBS Universal Decapping Die with a Lyman Carbide Expander/Decapping Assembly in station 1 to remove any burr that may remain on the inside of the case neck. The prep station is awesome and I have one of those as well which I used for a long time but it is slow requiring another handling of the case. The outside deburring tool isn't as fast as the inside tool but you don't have to cut near as much either rather just remove the sharp edge. I do not like to overdo the debur on the outside of the case neck. ETA: I must have removed my sizing explanation but Henny is correct that the reason the RT-1200B sizes as well as trims is to take the place of your fingers (like on the Giraud or PH) making sure the case doesn't spin. I will not be running two sizing dies as they aren't needed for my plans. ETA: Hornady discontinued their carbide expander assembly for RCBS but Lyman works. |
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Originally Posted By jlficken:
lockinload, My plan is to use a RCBS Lube Die #1 paired with a Hornady Carbide Expander/Decapping Assembly in station 1 during the sizing run to knock out the primer and make sure the case neck is round. Then when I go to load the rounds I will use a RCBS Universal Decapping Die with a Hornady Carbide Expander/Decapping Assembly in station 1 to remove any burr that may remain on the inside of the case neck. The prep station is awesome and I have one of those as well which I used for a long time but it is slow requiring another handling of the case. The outside deburring tool isn't as fast as the inside tool but you don't have to cut near as much either rather just remove the sharp edge. I do not like to overdo the debur on the outside of the case neck. Thanks for the reply. Looking at the attachment for the outside cutting, it doesn't really look like it has any cutting edge as it is pretty smooth. Does RCBS make another attachment for that station? My plans are to be working on a large quantity of 308 and it sounds like I might be recruiting a buddy. I think it's legal to drink beer while case prepping is it not? |
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Originally Posted By lockinload: A couple of questions for the OP. Glad to find this thread as I am ready to purchase something that requires electricity vs my old hands. On the Dillon RT, are you using two separate sizing dies? Station one sizes and decaps and then the die in the in the RT also sizes? Does the die for the RT have a decapping pin? I just don't understand why Dillon would incorporate a sizing die with the trimmer. I was seriously getting ready to buy the Possum Hollow. It has great reviews and you can't beat the price. I was going to trim all brass then run it through my RCBS prep station. The only issue I have with the prep station is the "outside" cutting tool is slow. Maybe I don't have the right tool / attachment. The inside chamfer works pretty good and can chamfer in about two seconds. I'm not the OP but I might be able to help out here. It's not necessary to run a sizing die and the trim die. A universal decapping die could be used in station one as opposed to a sizing die. The trim die can't decap because the trimmer trims the case mouth and a decapping pin can't operate with the blades covering the case mouth. I believe one of the reasons Dillon incorporates the sizing die with the trimmer is to securely hold the case while trimming and of course to trim the excess from the sizing function. It's a great system! It sure beats my old Wilson hand trimmer! No handling of cases which helps my Lyme infected joints and its easy to do 1000 in one sitting.
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"...But there's also this: there are over 5,000 men in this city, who know that being a policeman is an endless, glamourless, thankless job that's gotta be done. I know it, too, and I'm damn glad to be one of them." Joe Friday
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Henny,
Are you running vacuum attachment with trimmer die ? Originally Posted By Henny:
Another alternative for the 650 and 223 set up hat I use and I'm satisfied with is: Station 1: Dillon size / decapping die. Slightly sizes the case but does not set back the shoulder. Also removes the spent primer. Station 2: Empty Station 3: Trim die. Finishes sizing and trimming the case Station 4: Empty Station 5: Lyman "M" die set to slightly hit the case mouth to smooth out the cut and slightly expanding the mouth of the case so boat tail bullets and flat base bullets can easily be started in the case. NOTE: With this set up the standard Dillon tool head pin can not be used due to the size of the trimmer. I used a cut down nail that I turned down to the right diameter to snugly fit the holes in the tool head. It can only be put in and removed with the 1200's plastic exhaust port removed. After processing the brass I tumble off the lube and load them up on the 1050, but I used the 650 for a couple of years. Station 1 on the reloading head had a universal decapping die to poke any media out of the flash hole of the cartridge case. So far this set up and system has been working very well for me! |
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I sure do! I guess I should have said in my reply "NOTE: With this set up the standard Dillon tool head pin can not be used due to the size of the trimmer. I used a cut down nail that I turned down to the right diameter to snugly fit the holes in the tool head. It can only be put in and removed with the 1200's plastic exhaust port removed. Once the pin is installed the exhaust port can be reinstalled."  Originally Posted By 1911smith: Henny, Are you running vacuum attachment with trimmer die ? |
"...But there's also this: there are over 5,000 men in this city, who know that being a policeman is an endless, glamourless, thankless job that's gotta be done. I know it, too, and I'm damn glad to be one of them." Joe Friday
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You're doing it right. I wanted to use both Dillon pins so trimmer was moved station four. I'd be inclined on my next run to set-up the way you are now. Running a Universal in loading tool head takes just one more step out of it.
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Originally Posted By lockinload: Originally Posted By jlficken: lockinload, My plan is to use a RCBS Lube Die #1 paired with a Hornady Carbide Expander/Decapping Assembly in station 1 during the sizing run to knock out the primer and make sure the case neck is round. Then when I go to load the rounds I will use a RCBS Universal Decapping Die with a Hornady Carbide Expander/Decapping Assembly in station 1 to remove any burr that may remain on the inside of the case neck. The prep station is awesome and I have one of those as well which I used for a long time but it is slow requiring another handling of the case. The outside deburring tool isn't as fast as the inside tool but you don't have to cut near as much either rather just remove the sharp edge. I do not like to overdo the debur on the outside of the case neck. Thanks for the reply. Looking at the attachment for the outside cutting, it doesn't really look like it has any cutting edge as it is pretty smooth. Does RCBS make another attachment for that station? My plans are to be working on a large quantity of 308 and it sounds like I might be recruiting a buddy. I think it's legal to drink beer while case prepping is it not? I didn't see your question until now but it appears the RCBS Carbide Deburring Tool may be what you are looking for. Midway has it for $35 ($58 now in 2021  ) it appears. It has an actual blade and may do what you want but I've never used one. I may get one though at some point since the one that comes with the Trim Mate is pretty bad.
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Originally Posted By jlficken: Originally Posted By lockinload: Originally Posted By jlficken: lockinload, My plan is to use a RCBS Lube Die #1 paired with a Hornady Carbide Expander/Decapping Assembly in station 1 during the sizing run to knock out the primer and make sure the case neck is round. Then when I go to load the rounds I will use a RCBS Universal Decapping Die with a Hornady Carbide Expander/Decapping Assembly in station 1 to remove any burr that may remain on the inside of the case neck. The prep station is awesome and I have one of those as well which I used for a long time but it is slow requiring another handling of the case. The outside deburring tool isn't as fast as the inside tool but you don't have to cut near as much either rather just remove the sharp edge. I do not like to overdo the debur on the outside of the case neck. Thanks for the reply. Looking at the attachment for the outside cutting, it doesn't really look like it has any cutting edge as it is pretty smooth. Does RCBS make another attachment for that station? My plans are to be working on a large quantity of 308 and it sounds like I might be recruiting a buddy. I think it's legal to drink beer while case prepping is it not? I didn't see your question until now but it appears the RCBS Carbide Deburring Tool may be what you are looking for. Midway has it for $35 it appears. It has an actual blade and may do what you want but I've never used one. I may get one though at some point since the one that comes with the Trim Mate is pretty bad.  I replaced the outside deburer on my Trim mate years ago. It's a Herter's I found at the funshow. Never seen another. Glad RCBS is offering as replacement/upgraded deburer.
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Originally Posted By Henny:
Originally Posted By lockinload:
A couple of questions for the OP. Glad to find this thread as I am ready to purchase something that requires electricity vs my old hands. On the Dillon RT, are you using two separate sizing dies? Station one sizes and decaps and then the die in the in the RT also sizes? Does the die for the RT have a decapping pin? I just don't understand why Dillon would incorporate a sizing die with the trimmer. I was seriously getting ready to buy the Possum Hollow. It has great reviews and you can't beat the price. I was going to trim all brass then run it through my RCBS prep station. The only issue I have with the prep station is the "outside" cutting tool is slow. Maybe I don't have the right tool / attachment. The inside chamfer works pretty good and can chamfer in about two seconds. I'm not the OP but I might be able to help out here. It's not necessary to run a sizing die and the trim die. A universal decapping die could be used in station one as opposed to a sizing die. The trim die can't decap because the trimmer trims the case mouth and a decapping pin can't operate with the blades covering the case mouth. I believe one of the reasons Dillon incorporates the sizing die with the trimmer is to securely hold the case while trimming and of course to trim the excess from the sizing function. It's a great system! It sure beats my old Wilson hand trimmer! No handling of cases which helps my Lyme infected joints and its easy to do 1000 in one sitting. Sorry to be so dense here, but the RT sizes the case for you? So I can just use a universal decapper in station one and not my sizer/decapper die? I was thinking I had to resize before it was trimmed. Do you still have to use case lube? |
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Originally Posted By jlficken: That is a great idea!!! Did you use a brass tipped set screw like the one on the ram of a 550B or some other kind? I will have to find a part number for those rings and get a couple as that is a major pet peeve of mine but the only one I have found so far. No not brass just a standard (and I don't remember the thread size) steel set screw. |
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Originally Posted By jlficken:
Correct argolfer.....the RT sizes so you can use a universal decapping die in stage 1. You must lube the cases still though. Another option is an RCBS lube die w/ decapping pin in stage 1. I have been using a Giraud trimmer for a long time and this weekend I tried the Dillon trimmer on a XL650 with .223 brass. I think I wet my pants when on one pass the brass was deprimed, resized, and trimmed. My only regret is that it is a 650, not a 1050, since the 1050 will also swage the primer pockets. With that said, I first tried a universal decappinng die on station one and the trimmer on station 4. I ran into issues with cases that needed the case mouth resized. The universal decapping die will not fix cases that have a bent case mouth. So I ended up using a .223 sizing die on station 1. |
Any day on the range is a good day. -Jerry Miculek-
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Very good info guys! I've got a 1200 that's sitting in the basement from last christmas (birth of 1st child, job change, state change, house purchase put reloading on hold for awhile). I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to set up the size/trim toolhead on my 550b, and this thread helps! |
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A recession is when your neighbor loses his job. A depression is when you lose yours. And recovery is when Barack Obama loses his.---Ronald Reagan...sorta.
A recession is when your neighbor loses his job. A depression is when you lose yours. And recovery is when Barack Obama loses his.---Ronald Reagan...sorta.
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I started this hoping that someone may find it useful so I am very glad people are. txcas, you could try a Lyman Carbide Expander/Decapping Assembly in a RCBS Universal Decapping Die in station 1 to make sure the case neck is round. |
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By jlficken:
Originally Posted By lockinload:
Originally Posted By jlficken:
lockinload, My plan is to use a RCBS Lube Die #1 paired with a Hornady Carbide Expander/Decapping Assembly in station 1 during the sizing run to knock out the primer and make sure the case neck is round. Then when I go to load the rounds I will use a RCBS Universal Decapping Die with a Hornady Carbide Expander/Decapping Assembly in station 1 to remove any burr that may remain on the inside of the case neck. The prep station is awesome and I have one of those as well which I used for a long time but it is slow requiring another handling of the case. The outside deburring tool isn't as fast as the inside tool but you don't have to cut near as much either rather just remove the sharp edge. I do not like to overdo the debur on the outside of the case neck. Thanks for the reply. Looking at the attachment for the outside cutting, it doesn't really look like it has any cutting edge as it is pretty smooth. Does RCBS make another attachment for that station? My plans are to be working on a large quantity of 308 and it sounds like I might be recruiting a buddy. I think it's legal to drink beer while case prepping is it not? I didn't see your question until now but it appears the RCBS Carbide Deburring Tool may be what you are looking for. Midway has it for $35 it appears. It has an actual blade and may do what you want but I've never used one. I may get one though at some point since the one that comes with the Trim Mate is pretty bad. http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Tools/P8100501.jpg I replaced the outside deburer on my Trim mate years ago. It's a Herter's I found at the funshow. Never seen another. Glad RCBS is offering as replacement/upgraded deburer. Yes, that looks like it could lay waste pretty quick. I want one |
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Ok, so I read this entire thread because I was researching the Dillon after I had called them today and ordered it up. What I am wondering is if anyone figured out the whole chamfer and deburring thing with the dillon 1200B yet? Was there anything that seemed to work like trying to resize the case after cuting it, and then using the "M" die, or just simply having the sizer ball do the inside of the case neck from sizing again after the cutting.
I load hunting roads for the varmint AR, and they need to be precise for that gun. So far I have seen some mention of the "M" Die, which I was thinking of using. I was thinking I may have to take the size and trimmed bras and just run it through the RCBS trim center afterward. Also, my trim center chamfer and debur heads seem to be getting dull. What is the recommended replacement heads to run on it? |
Ar's are cool!
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Originally Posted By Snopczynski: Ok, so I read this entire thread because I was researching the Dillon after I had called them today and ordered it up. What I am wondering is if anyone figured out the whole chamfer and deburring thing with the dillon 1200B yet? Was there anything that seemed to work like trying to resize the case after cuting it, and then using the "M" die, or just simply having the sizer ball do the inside of the case neck from sizing again after the cutting. I load hunting roads for the varmint AR, and they need to be precise for that gun. So far I have seen some mention of the "M" Die, which I was thinking of using. I was thinking I may have to take the size and trimmed bras and just run it through the RCBS trim center afterward. Also, my trim center chamfer and debur heads seem to be getting dull. What is the recommended replacement heads to run on it? I will try to address some of your questions: Red (lost during the SH moves of the last 9 years ):SnipersHide Link about Giraud blade on Dillon trimmer with Doug Giraud's thoughts. Blue: RCBS Carbide Chamfur Tool, RCBS Carbide Deburring Tool (Midway Link) Misc: The "M" die seems to be a possible method of removing any slight inside burr. Other options are: 1) Tumbling (especially in SS media) 2) RCBS Universal Decapping Die with a Lyman Carbide Expander/Decapping Assembly in station 1 to remove any burr that may remain on the inside of the case neck. |
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Originally Posted By jlficken: ... however, it isn't likely that I could crank out 750 pieces of brass without having to take a break while sizing + trimming like I can with the Giraud. You haven't tried. It's simple to decap, resize, and trim 1,000 pieces of .223, 30 Carbine, .308, or 30-06 brass in 1 hour using a Dillon 650, casefeeder, and Dillon trimmer without even breaking a sweat. And, with a casefeeder, you don't even have to touch a single piece of brass to do it either. I do it all the time. Also, as others have confirmed, Dillon's trim head gives such a clean cut (at a 4° chamfer for the outside) that tumbling removes any tiny burs that remain. Further, I can also confirm that lack of an inside chamfer has never caused me grief when loading flat based bullets in my .223, 30 Carbine, .308, or 30-06. Nor has the lack of an inside chamfer affected the accuracy of any of my handloads. All without a single sore finger. |
“Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.” - Buckaroo Banzai 1984
"When you find a find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it." - Dilbert 2009
"When you find a find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it." - Dilbert 2009
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COSteve,
I'm not saying it isn't possible with the Dillon to process that much brass in an hour. I'm simply saying that for me sitting down(no Strong Mount) at the press without a case feeder and cranking out 750 sized and trimmed cases isn't going to happen as my shoulder simply doesn't like to do that much sizing at a time. In normal sizing batches I quit after ~250 cases but I am a computer programmer and can't say as though I "work" every day therefore I am not used to the repetitiveness of running a press. I have also found that my love of reloading isn't at the level of some and I don't greatly enjoy it so I try to break up sessions into no more than 45 minute long. |
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Originally Posted By lockinload:
A couple of questions for the OP. Glad to find this thread as I am ready to purchase something that requires electricity vs my old hands. On the Dillon RT, are you using two separate sizing dies? Station one sizes and decaps and then the die in the in the RT also sizes? Does the die for the RT have a decapping pin? I just don't understand why Dillon would incorporate a sizing die with the trimmer. I was seriously getting ready to buy the Possum Hollow. It has great reviews and you can't beat the price. I was going to trim all brass then run it through my RCBS prep station. The only issue I have with the prep station is the "outside" cutting tool is slow. Maybe I don't have the right tool / attachment. The inside chamfer works pretty good and can chamfer in about two seconds. I used the PH trimmer for a few months. It works great. But I sold it and got a Giraud because I still had to chamfer/deburr after trimming with the PH- which for me was mind numbing. I don't have a prep station, so using a PH may work out great for you. |
The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. --Eleanor Roosevelt
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Changed to hosting my own images as all of the providers suck nowadays. They won't go away anymore Also, I'm building a Honey Badger trimmer currently so once the Lyman 300BLK Trim Die shows up I can show how it trims. ETA: Also updated links to products that have been discontinued or websites that have changed. |
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I’m glad this was set to not archive. I’m planning on setting up my 750 next weekend and hope to set it up like Henny has pictured above. I have the correct size media to tumble but would still like a decapper in station one of my loading toolhead to make sure no media gets stuck. Hopping i can grind off the toolhead pin on a 750 to where the rt 1500 will work like in his picture. Processing toolhead 1 size decap 2 empty 3 trimmer 4 empty 5 m die Maybe im being anal about the decapper in station one of the loading toolhead and should just run the m die there? |
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If this is for .223 and your brass is under 1.76” , then you don’t have to trim . The one prep toolhead on my 650 is set up like this: Station #1: universal decapper Station #2: some small base resizing die with the decapping rod removed (this acts like a pre-resizer, it is not screwed down all the way) ** Station #3: empty Station #4: Dillon RT1500 Station #5: empty Then wet tumble with SS pins. My load toolhead looks like this: #1: Lyman M die #2: Dillon powder measure #3: empty but I have a mechanic’s inspection mirror zip tied just so, so as the case comes up the empty hole, I can see the powder. I also have little flashlight zip tied to the side of powder measure #4: Redding micrometer adjustable bullet seating die #5: Lee FCD* * At least in my experiments with .308 , I got better accuracy not using a Lee FCD . I have not done any side by side testing of .223 crimped vs. UNcrimped ** if dealing with crimped primer pickets, then the Swage-It goes in at station #2 where priming would normally take place . |
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