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Chest rigs were a necessary evil (Page 1 of 2)
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Posted: 6/26/2026 4:00:06 PM EDT
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Borne out of close quarter urban room clearing and high speed hit and run tactics deploying from and quickly returning to vehicles They were not meant to be weighted down with sustainment gear, initially they were nothing but ammo and grenades. The modern convolution of the chest rig is an attempt to force fit broader general purposes into a system designed for very specific use cases. I would argue that the common inclusion of canteens is a mistake as well. Sustainment and similar gear belongs on a belt with or lbe to stay with you at all times. The chest rig and anything with a quick detach release is for combat equipment exclusively and should be abandoned should the need arise. This is why you carry canteens in addition to hydration bladder. Because the bladder is more or less a.disposabale.item while your canteen is indispensable. Tldr lbe/belt is multipurpose and optimal for load carrying while the chest rig is good for one thing only. In most civilian contexts there is zero need for a chest rigs you are better off with a belt. Depending on the area a knife and/or pistol is the most you'll need either |
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Originally Posted By Ropium: Borne out of close quarter urban room clearing and high speed hit and run tactics deploying from and quickly returning to vehicles They were not meant to be weighted down with sustainment gear, initially they were nothing but ammo and grenades. The modern convolution of the chest rig is an attempt to force fit broader general purposes into a system designed for very specific use cases. I would argue that the common inclusion of canteens is a mistake as well. Sustainment and similar gear belongs on a belt with or lbe to stay with you at all times. The chest rig and anything with a quick detach release is for combat equipment exclusively and should be abandoned should the need arise. This is why you carry canteens in addition to hydration bladder. Because the bladder is more or less a.disposabale.item while your canteen is indispensable. Tldr lbe/belt is multipurpose and optimal for load carrying while the chest rig is good for one thing only. In most civilian contexts there is zero need for a chest rigs you are better off with a belt. Depending on the area a knife and/or pistol is the most you'll need either I agree in some ways, but here are some thoughts. 1. A micro chest rig makes a REALLY good 'bump in the night' rig. It's easier to don than a belt and can carry everything you need. 2. LBE - which I am a BIG fan of - don't work well in vehicles. If you are operating out of a vehicle, a chest rig is alot better. This is where chest rigs shine. |
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Chest rigs work better across a wider range of clothing with less user fine-tuning. Chest rigs generally work much better when working around and in/out of vehicles. Chest rigs generally integrate better with a larger variety of backpacks. Heavy duty belts and suspension rigs are great but their original use case, and current one as well, is still dismounted infantry with organizationally issued gear that integrates as a whole system. For most people a chest rig and backpack, both sized and equipped to the need, are much better combination. Context and nuance, blanket statements are usually awful. |
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Originally Posted By Ropium: I think micro rugs make sense, the gp stuff should be relocated on the belt line for better weight distribution closer to center of gravity I agree, micro rugs do make sense. I have one at my front door to wipe my feet on. So what is your background of practical experience that warrants such a dogmatic opening post? |
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Originally Posted By Ropium: I think micro rugs make sense, the gp stuff should be relocated on the belt line for better weight distribution closer to center of gravity Relocating the GP stuff to your waist turns it into full sized LBE. Putting canteens and GP pouches on your belt means you need a heavier duty belt, and it causes problems with wearing packs and with working out of vehicles. Those reasons are situations where you'd want to wear a chest rig instead of LBE (specifically working out of a vehicle being the big one) If you are going to wear a set of LBE, why would you wear a chest rig? Just rock the full sized belt kit. I mean, sure, you can use a small chest rig to upgun your magazine loadout, but with modern belt kits, you can already rock 12+ magazines on the belt kit. I get what you are trying to say, and it makes sense to a point - until you factor in wearing a pack or working out of a vehicle. Note that you CAN wear a pack with a set of belt kit if you have the right pack and especially if the belt kit is set up right. I'm not discounting that. I'm just saying that why wear a chest rig if you are going to load down a belt with canteens and GP pouches? Why not just go ahead and wear a full sized belt kit? |
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Originally Posted By JoeDevola: I agree, micro rugs do make sense. I have one at my front door to wipe my feet on. So what is your background of practical experience that warrants such a dogmatic opening post? What’s your background of practical experience that warrants such a dogmatic reply? |
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With the weight of lvl 4 plates approaching 5 lbs and being less than an inch, having a minimalist carrier is probably the way. Having armor is better than not having it. Making certain it's positioned properly is critical. Keeping the right side clear for a pistol matters too. But, my thinking is that the belt is pretty much reserved for pistol, maybe one reload of a rifle mag, and the rifle stuff should be kept on the carrier. If you need a rifle, having the carrier is probably helpful. That being said, a chest rig carries the same loadout for the rifle, sans plates. It's good if your rifle is primary, and pistol secondary, but I wouldn't recommend it over a minimalist carrier. Heck, you can get 3A plates that weigh less than a lb. apiece. They'll at least stop pistol rounds. But if you're going into a situation where a rifle is warranted, it's probably because there are already rifles at play. On a two way range, having plates ups your game. Having tubes on the carrier makes it quick. All that being said, getting in and out of a vehicle sucks with any attached gear. It takes some practice to not get hung up and still be able to do it quickly. Any type of external carrier is better than internal for heat mgmt. The other thing is that solid mounting is always better. Chest rigs are inherently a bit more flimsy, and might shift on you when you need them solid. Alot depends on what you're going to use them for. |
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Canteens are still issued? I thought everything was Camelbacks now. Never had a camelback burst on you eh? You think the next war we're going to have coolers of water bottles in the vehicles, pallets of water bottles in the FOBs, and easy access to replacement bladders? |
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Originally Posted By Stretchman: With the weight of lvl 4 plates approaching 5 lbs and being less than an inch, having a minimalist carrier is probably the way. Having armor is better than not having it. Making certain it's positioned properly is critical. Keeping the right side clear for a pistol matters too. But, my thinking is that the belt is pretty much reserved for pistol, maybe one reload of a rifle mag, and the rifle stuff should be kept on the carrier. If you need a rifle, having the carrier is probably helpful. That being said, a chest rig carries the same loadout for the rifle, sans plates. It's good if your rifle is primary, and pistol secondary, but I wouldn't recommend it over a minimalist carrier. Heck, you can get 3A plates that weigh less than a lb. apiece. They'll at least stop pistol rounds. But if you're going into a situation where a rifle is warranted, it's probably because there are already rifles at play. On a two way range, having plates ups your game. Having tubes on the carrier makes it quick. All that being said, getting in and out of a vehicle sucks with any attached gear. It takes some practice to not get hung up and still be able to do it quickly. Any type of external carrier is better than internal for heat mgmt. The other thing is that solid mounting is always better. Chest rigs are inherently a bit more flimsy, and might shift on you when you need them solid. Alot depends on what you're going to use them for. Armor does have it's place. I'm not discounting that. However, the discussion was opened about chest rigs, not plates, so I'm discussing that. Now, playing devil's advocate re: carriers - wearing armor where it's hot AND humid isn't going to be a thing long term though, not if you are going to be dismounted. Most of the SE USA is going to be like that for instance. Down off the mountain from me a week or two ago, it was over 100F and 90% humidity. You're going to be a heat casualty if you try to do any real distance in armor. Additionally, running a belt with your carrier with pistol and such on it - sure, that works. As long as you don't need to run a pack. Alot of people have been going into gear with the idea that they are setting it up like whatever the next war is going to be is going to be just like the GWOT, where we are fighting in a locale that has little humidity, where you are operating mostly out of vehicles and back at the base each day or two, easy resupply, etc. Now throw in civilians. Odds are that if the civilians that are buying gear need to roll heavy, they're going to end up being the equivalent of dismounted light infantry, which means you need to be able to implement far more sustainment gear into your system. I prefer a real LBE for most of this, but split rig chest rigs work ok with all this too. Additionally, if you DO need to run armor, you can throw a chest rig over a slick carrier and it works fine. Saying all this, I do have a couple decent plate carrier setups. I get the need for them. |
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This is a weird post. We don't know the OP so he/she doesn't know us. To come here and state what is what without some sort of background bona fides makes very little sense, especially when you don't know who we are and what we know. No flexibility for terrain, situation, weather, or mission. Just cover all statements of "fact". It is fascinating though. The balls on some of you guys,,,lol. |
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Chest rigs are obviously scalable, and a rig can be a great way to augment belt kit. Originally Posted By MrJonesandMe: LBE/Belts don’t work well with rucks. Chest rigs do. This seems awfully silly and lacking in critical thinking. An appropriately-sized (30-40L) pack works superbly with LBE. Hell, I'd rather wear belt kit and a ruck (sans waist belt) than a pack with a fancy purpose-built waist belt. Monster-sized rucks are going to be suck city no matter what. |
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Originally Posted By wsix: This is a weird post. We don't know the OP so he/she doesn't know us. To come here and state what is what without some sort of background bona fides makes very little sense, especially when you don't know who we are and what we know. No flexibility for terrain, situation, weather, or mission. Just cover all statements of "fact". Originally Posted By wsix: This is a weird post. We don't know the OP so he/she doesn't know us. To come here and state what is what without some sort of background bona fides makes very little sense, especially when you don't know who we are and what we know. No flexibility for terrain, situation, weather, or mission. Just cover all statements of "fact". I really don't mind differing opinions - I actually support it. A range of ideas and discussion on them = potential innovation / new ways of doing things. I'm a huge proponent of belt kits, and I get armor...but a chest rig is probably the most versatile single setup you can have. If you could only afford one piece of kit (and face it, most people can't afford a ton of gear), a good chest rig is the most useful item you can pick. It makes a good starting point for gear, is easy to point to and say 'get that first' and the average idiot at least gets the basic idea of how to use them, vs. nuances involved with belt kits and armor - both of which can be complicated and can get very $$$ very quickly. It can be rigged with sustainment items. It works in vehicles. It works with even civilian packs. It works over (slick) armor (most modern plate carriers can be rigged slick these days) It's relatively cost effective, especially if you shop sales and the used market. Split rig versions work 'ok' in hot / humid weather. You can get into a decent chest rig setup for less than $200. If you are careful and shop used / deals, probably closer to $100. Good belt kits start at $400ish and go upwards of $1k. Armor, to get a decent carrier and decent entry level plates = $600+, and running into the multiple thousands - WITHOUT adding pouches and such to the carrier. By the time you outfit the carrier, you are looking at $800+ minimum. ^^ Most people won't spend that kind of money on gear. They will either skip it or cheap out with chinese crap and cheapo steel plates. If the Chinese paratroopers start dropping, I'd rather dudes show up with a used chest rig + ruck and sustainment gear - than one of my gucci belt kits I make. Or a pimped out plate carrier. Heck, for the price of a GOOD plate carrier and GOOD plates, he could have night vision added to that stuff he shows up with. One other thing - chest rigs are something that your average dude at home CAN sew for himself on his home sewing machine pretty easily - and cheaply. You can sew up a pretty pimp chest rig setup for $50 worth of material. Originally Posted By wsix:It is fascinating though. The balls on some of you guys,,,lol. I am a bit opinionated and aggressive  But I do try to back it up with alot of logic and years of playing around with all kinds of gear.
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So many of the chest rigs I see online remind me of the younger brother from A Christmas Story- "I can't put my arms down!" I have a few HPG style 5.11 kit bags but no other chest rigs. I keep looking at them but I'm a bit of a heat cas and don't need an big heat trap on my chest. I usually just do a minimal belt setup on my normal CCW belt- holster, JSTA pouch and an extra mag pouch so 2/3 rifle mags on my belt. Realistically that'll fix 99.9% of any problems I would need a gun for. I'm not in the Army anymore, I'm not a cop, I'm just a regular guy. 🤷 |
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Originally Posted By Ropium: Tldr lbe/belt is multipurpose and optimal for load carrying while the chest rig is good for one thing only. In most civilian contexts there is zero need for a chest rigs you are better off with a belt. Depending on the area a knife and/or pistol is the most you'll need either I think you're missing the aspect of carrying a larger pack than an assault pack. Chest rigs just work better with a bigger pack and that, to me, is the better civilian use-case. The TT MAV did this about 30-years ago, and yes, you can carry a water bottle or canteen along with an IFAK, even a radio. There is a balance though and it depends on what combat load you think is necessary. That said, yes, I have larger chest rigs than the micro rigs for those reasons and longer patrols or trekking distances with a bigger pack. Best chest rigs are split rigs...being a heat trap is a concern. I've got several hundreds of backpacking miles with HPG Kit Bags and you will sweat no matter what. ROCK6 |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Never had a camelback burst on you eh? You think the next war we're going to have coolers of water bottles in the vehicles, pallets of water bottles in the FOBs, and easy access to replacement bladders? A personal anecdote: I took a tumble off road, flew a few yards in the air, landed onto my Camelback, the pressure ejected the mouthpiece across the trail (I did find it eventually), but otherwise the Camelback wasn't worse for the wear. I still hike with it. |
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Originally Posted By lew: Chest rigs are obviously scalable, and a rig can be a great way to augment belt kit. An appropriately-sized (30-40L) pack works superbly with LBE. Hell, I'd rather wear belt kit and a ruck (sans waist belt) than a pack with a fancy purpose-built waist belt. Monster-sized rucks are going to be suck city no matter what. Disagree on the usefulness of hip belt packs. They work awesome for backpacking. One thing I could never figure out was how I woul carry a rifle on a sling while wearing a backpack. (Not considering a specialized pack with a rifle compartment). |
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This is the problem with modern doctrine of using the chest rig for everything. He could easily put the assault pouch and canteens on a warbelt while still using the chest rig for his combat load out. The lbv and flc to an extent was meant to address this but as you can see once your sustainment load goes above a certain level you become immobile like a Michelin man https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmodded-flc-v0-vrmyn6uze70e1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1967%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D022658ca1e878ef388302dc9df8a154c50d945dd |
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| Regarding the ruck issue. In a civilian context the ruck just becomes taller and longer. From a combat perspective there are a lot of benefits to having short segmented rucks that grow horizontally instead. equipment weight distributed across the body to hips especially rather than all concentrated on your chest and back is more tolerable for long periods and traps less heat. I feel like the future of chest rigs is something disposable and fast attaching like panels that go on body armor or very minimal chicom rig style set ups. Overbuilt rigs designed to carry everything will not be able to compete with belts on a suspender and a 5 dollar chicom rig |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: You can bump the size up a little too, if you get a good pack and a good set of LBE that work well together. Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Originally Posted By lew: An appropriately-sized (30-40L) pack works superbly with LBE. You can bump the size up a little too, if you get a good pack and a good set of LBE that work well together. Sure, but then the negative impact on mobility becomes glaringly apparent much beyond that volume. |
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Originally Posted By lew: Sure, but then the negative impact on mobility becomes glaringly apparent much beyond that volume. Agreed. Notice how I said you had to be careful with weight, and that I like the bigger size mostly for winter warmth gear, which tends to be lighter and bulkier than most other stuff. You really are pushing it into full ruck size getting anything bigger than that. |
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Originally Posted By voyager3: A personal anecdote: I took a tumble off road, flew a few yards in the air, landed onto my Camelback, the pressure ejected the mouthpiece across the trail (I did find it eventually), but otherwise the Camelback wasn't worse for the wear. I still hike with it. Hey, they'll do weird things like that  Come back the next day and it'll have leaked all over your sleeping bag. Like I said, I use them. I just don't TRUST them. |
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Originally Posted By Ropium: This is the problem with modern doctrine of using the chest rig for everything. He could easily put the assault pouch and canteens on a warbelt while still using the chest rig for his combat load out. The lbv and flc to an extent was meant to address this but as you can see once your sustainment load goes above a certain level you become immobile like a Michelin man https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmodded-flc-v0-vrmyn6uze70e1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1967%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D022658ca1e878ef388302dc9df8a154c50d945dd Ever run canteens and a large utility pouch like that on a warbelt and hiked 10-20 miles? You'll hate your life afterwards. Plus you won't be able to use a pack that has a belt with that warbelt. The key is a balance between mobility and bare bones sustainment stuff on your main line gear. Like I've said on here, while I can put a good argument forward for chest rigs, belt kits OR chest rigs / plate carriers (or a combo of the two in some cases) seems to be the direction to go - depending on whether you are operating out of a vehicle or not. If you AREN'T going to operate out of a vehicle, just get a set of belt kit. Don't try to jerry rig a warbelt with canteens + whatever, chest rig or LBV or whatever. If you ARE going to operate out of a vehicle, then a chest rig / plate carrier is the way to go. And if you are going to run a belt with those, you want it to be a very minimal warbelt. (Really, trust me, you don't want to run canteens and stuff on a warbelt, at least not the kind of warbelt most guys run. Yes, it can be done, and there's nothing wrong with doing it short term, but you will quickly find that trying to wear a warbelt and walking long distances sucks. And wearing a warbelt and having bulky items like canteens and stuff on your hips in a car - or anything behind your back - is going to....not be fun or even doable in alot of cases.) Try it out. Go get a warbelt, put some canteen pouches back behind your hips and some kind of pouch in the rear, and get in and out of your car a few times. Try doing a 10-20 mile ruck wearing a warbelt in addition to your gear. |
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Sustainment gear is not something that needs accessed quickly absent something to drink and snack on as your moving, thus it can be stored in a pack. Keeping all the bulky non combat stuff in a pack means it can be dropped at first contact improving mobility and violence of action. If you find yourself planning/conducting operations that might involve sustained combat operations over multiple days then easy access to more items via more belt pouches makes sense. |
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Originally Posted By Ropium: Regarding the ruck issue. In a civilian context the ruck just becomes taller and longer. From a combat perspective there are a lot of benefits to having short segmented rucks that grow horizontally instead. equipment weight distributed across the body to hips especially rather than all concentrated on your chest and back is more tolerable for long periods and traps less heat. Originally Posted By Ropium: Regarding the ruck issue. In a civilian context the ruck just becomes taller and longer. From a combat perspective there are a lot of benefits to having short segmented rucks that grow horizontally instead. equipment weight distributed across the body to hips especially rather than all concentrated on your chest and back is more tolerable for long periods and traps less heat. You mean like a set of modern British style belt kit?  Originally Posted By Ropium:I feel like the future of chest rigs is something disposable and fast attaching like panels that go on body armor So like a placard? Originally Posted By Ropium:or very minimal chicom rig style set ups. Overbuilt rigs designed to carry everything will not be able to compete with belts on a suspender and a 5 dollar chicom rig So, again, like a set of belt kit? And add a minimalist chest rig if you want to upgun mags. (also, chicom rigs are more like $25ish now) I do see what you are trying to say, and some of it you have right. Mostly because I am being lazy and don't want to host a picture, look at the thumbnail of this youtube video. Or watch the whole video. A set of modern British style belt kit fixes alot of the problems you are saying...unless, again, you are operating out of a vehicle.  Crossfire DZ Rig - Tigerstripe Belt Kit! |
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Originally Posted By Combat_Leader: Sustainment gear is not something that needs accessed quickly absent something to drink and snack on as your moving, thus it can be stored in a pack. Keeping all the bulky non combat stuff in a pack means it can be dropped at first contact improving mobility and violence of action. If you find yourself planning/conducting operations that might involve sustained combat operations over multiple days then easy access to more items via more belt pouches makes sense. ^^ This. |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Agreed. Notice how I said you had to be careful with weight, and that I like the bigger size mostly for winter warmth gear, which tends to be lighter and bulkier than most other stuff. You really are pushing it into full ruck size getting anything bigger than that. Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Originally Posted By lew: Sure, but then the negative impact on mobility becomes glaringly apparent much beyond that volume. Agreed. Notice how I said you had to be careful with weight, and that I like the bigger size mostly for winter warmth gear, which tends to be lighter and bulkier than most other stuff. You really are pushing it into full ruck size getting anything bigger than that. You think I read what you post? Hell, I can barely read at all! Winter's a whole 'nother bitch. Three season, I aim for three-four days unsupported. Winter, I bust out the Belgian 100L ruck, and preferably a support vehicle. If it ever sows enough here, I'll be getting a pulk. I added four 1 qt. pouches and a pouch for my Grayl to my Savotta small pack and it's perfect. The two pouches on the front make a great rifle rest. Nice to have my bivy and pack scrim in their own easily-accessed pouches. |
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Originally Posted By lew: You think I read what you post? Hell, I can barely read at all! Winter's a whole 'nother bitch. Three season, I aim for three-four days unsupported. Winter, I bust out the Belgian 100L ruck, and preferably a support vehicle. If it ever sows enough here, I'll be getting a pulk. I added four 1 qt. pouches and a pouch for my Grayl to my Savotta small pack and it's perfect. The two pouches on the front make a great rifle rest. Nice to have my bivy and pack scrim in their own easily-accessed pouches. You mean sitting in the lazyboy in front of the wood stove in the house, right?
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Never had a camelback burst on you eh? You think the next war we're going to have coolers of water bottles in the vehicles, pallets of water bottles in the FOBs, and easy access to replacement bladders? Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Originally Posted By backbencher: Canteens are still issued? I thought everything was Camelbacks now. Never had a camelback burst on you eh? You think the next war we're going to have coolers of water bottles in the vehicles, pallets of water bottles in the FOBs, and easy access to replacement bladders? Not in 15 years in the Army, but I was in the rear w/ the gear in the A/C. Somewhere I think I still have the replacement bladder issued to me when I got my UCP Camelback. Whatever the Army chooses to do in the next war will be very expensive & supplied by contractors.  ETA: I find it odd to have a binary discussion on armor between steel & ceramic Level 4. I wear Level 3+ poly plates for 14 hours nearly every weekend, it's not the most comfortable getup I've ever worn but it's not that heavy. |
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Originally Posted By backbencher:Not in 15 years in the Army, but I was in the rear w/ the gear in the A/C. Originally Posted By backbencher:Not in 15 years in the Army, but I was in the rear w/ the gear in the A/C. See, I'd totally agree with using a camelback in that situation. I'm very flexible on this in general. Originally Posted By backbencher:I wear Level 3+ poly plates for 14 hours nearly every weekend, it's not the most comfortable getup I've ever worn but it's not that heavy. Same. I run 3+ poly / ceramic hybrid plates. |
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A not gigantic chest rig doesn’t add width to your body. Which as stated it’s good for working out of vehicles but also any other confined space and thick brush. A slick pistol belt still knocks and gets hung up in stuff when it gets tight. If all I wanted to carry was four to six mags and a small first aid kit. It would 100% of the time be in a chest rig. With a light pistol belt for that isn’t loaded down with padding and huge pouches it still leaves a lot of your torso open to vent. If you need twelve mags and the kitchen sink, then yeah belt kit is going to carry that load better. |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: I agree in some ways, but here are some thoughts. 1. A micro chest rig makes a REALLY good 'bump in the night' rig. It's easier to don than a belt and can carry everything you need. Unless you’re in a literal war zone, I don’t see needing 90 rounds on your chest along with the 30 in your gun to investigate a “bump in the night” |
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Originally Posted By Trucker69: Unless you’re in a literal war zone, I don’t see needing 90 rounds on your chest along with the 30 in your gun to investigate a “bump in the night” Originally Posted By Trucker69: Originally Posted By marnsdorff: I agree in some ways, but here are some thoughts. 1. A micro chest rig makes a REALLY good 'bump in the night' rig. It's easier to don than a belt and can carry everything you need. Unless you’re in a literal war zone, I don’t see needing 90 rounds on your chest along with the 30 in your gun to investigate a “bump in the night” We're in a low level civil war now. More civil than war at the moment, but that can shift in an instant like it did for Charlie Kirk. |
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Originally Posted By Trucker69: Unless you’re in a literal war zone, I don’t see needing 90 rounds on your chest along with the 30 in your gun to investigate a “bump in the night” The nice thing is the micro rig doesn't have to be 3x30rnd mags. That same space can be 1x30rnd, pistol, and flashlight. Or any combo of things you might deem necessary for investigating your property on short notice (pepper spray, radio, thermobaric charges, etc). When it comes down to it, everything has a place, even if the application is narrow, someone still has that need. It may never be me, but someone does for whatever reason. It could be technical or personal. It's like the never ending cartridge debate. At the end of the day, a screwdriver makes a terrible hammer, even though it would be easier and cheaper to just give everyone screwdrivers. |
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Originally Posted By LineOfDeparture: I'll never change. Chasing comfort is a folly of diminishing returns. None of this shit is comfortable but it should be functional, which is what's important. Chasing comfort is a never ending journey. Find what is function and tweak but comfort isn't the primary purpose. ROCK6 |
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" - Thomas Jefferson
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Originally Posted By Trucker69: Unless you’re in a literal war zone, I don’t see needing 90 rounds on your chest along with the 30 in your gun to investigate a “bump in the night” While I've got a haley micro rig right now (I got it at a deal in a trade), one of my future personal projects is to do a dedicated 'home defense' micro rig for myself that holds 1 or 2 extra rifle magazines, a holster for a pistol, a flashlight, a knife, an extra pistol magazine, a tourniquet, a small GP pouch for keys and stuff, and possibly a radio. Have it set up for a mini-dangler with a mini-IFAK if I can't fit it on the main panel. I live pretty rural in the mountains, and while crime is basically non-existant, police response time can sometimes be in the hours. (The one time I've had to call the police for something in my life, it took them well over 2 hours to get out here. That's not normal, but it happens. The actual sheriff himself showed up in the end to check on us.) I only have one neighbor within 'hearing me screaming distance' - and she's in her 60's. My 'bump in the night' emergencies might end up just being me. I have zero problem with an extra magazine or two being along. I figure the above described chest rig would cover about everything I'd need along, that I can quickly throw over my head in my underwear if I had to. I'd say to add a slot for my cell phone, but we don't get cell reception here in the valley. Thus the radio over cell phone. I want is small and compact and light. Maybe add a roll-up dump pouch in case I ever need to throw something in there. 99% of the time, me going out after something ends up being a possum going after the chickens or the trash can, but I've had a few sketchy things happen - some random car parked on the side of the road across the road from my driveway 3 nights in a row late at night. Someone walking around in the woods across my back field at 2am, far far away from any roads or any neighbor houses. Last sunday at 1pm, there were 2 men, 3 males in their late teens, and a female in her late teens that I'd never seen before sitting behind my neighbor's barn (the 60 year old lady), out of sight of her house, all with long hair, backpacks, and all smoking, at least one of them smoking pot. No cars in sight. Come to find out, they owned one of the un-developed pieces of land nearby and their truck had gotten stuck in the mud and this was the closest obvious place to meet someone who was coming to pick them up after they had climbed to the top of the mountain to make a call. |
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Originally Posted By LineOfDeparture: Meh. I put a chest rig onto my plate carrier and put a belt on before putting on my mountain ruck. I'll never change. Chasing comfort is a folly of diminishing returns. I'm in my mid 40's. I'm trying to stay ahead of the game. Comfort isn't an optional thing at this point. |
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Originally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: Quiet.... no people.... no bugs.... You had me at "no people". Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Myyyyyy man.  I can always put more clothing on. There's only so much I can take off before the police start getting called on me. Oh, I like the heat, too. 8 years in Phoenix taught me how to do that well. Again, "no people". Being the consummate gear slut that I am, I have almost a sporting goods store's worth of cold weather clothing. Time it right, and most of it can be procured cheap. Back to the topic: like any other piece of gear, chest rigs are just one tool in the box; appropriate in some configurations in some situations and inappropriate in others. Putting a bunch of weight on one is a great way to mess up yer back. Keep the weight mild and it can be a significant enabler. I'm not running around when it's 100* out with crap covering my chest and back. In cooler temps? If I need the real estate, sure. Vehicle-centric? Well, the choice might be made for me. |
Don't forget about the Trail of Beers Happy Hour!
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Ever run canteens and a large utility pouch like that on a warbelt and hiked 10-20 miles? You'll hate your life afterwards. Plus you won't be able to use a pack that has a belt with that warbelt. The key is a balance between mobility and bare bones sustainment stuff on your main line gear. Like I've said on here, while I can put a good argument forward for chest rigs, belt kits OR chest rigs / plate carriers (or a combo of the two in some cases) seems to be the direction to go - depending on whether you are operating out of a vehicle or not. If you AREN'T going to operate out of a vehicle, just get a set of belt kit. Don't try to jerry rig a warbelt with canteens + whatever, chest rig or LBV or whatever. If you ARE going to operate out of a vehicle, then a chest rig / plate carrier is the way to go. And if you are going to run a belt with those, you want it to be a very minimal warbelt. (Really, trust me, you don't want to run canteens and stuff on a warbelt, at least not the kind of warbelt most guys run. Yes, it can be done, and there's nothing wrong with doing it short term, but you will quickly find that trying to wear a warbelt and walking long distances sucks. And wearing a warbelt and having bulky items like canteens and stuff on your hips in a car - or anything behind your back - is going to....not be fun or even doable in alot of cases.) Try it out. Go get a warbelt, put some canteen pouches back behind your hips and some kind of pouch in the rear, and get in and out of your car a few times. Try doing a 10-20 mile ruck wearing a warbelt in addition to your gear. Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Originally Posted By Ropium: This is the problem with modern doctrine of using the chest rig for everything. He could easily put the assault pouch and canteens on a warbelt while still using the chest rig for his combat load out. The lbv and flc to an extent was meant to address this but as you can see once your sustainment load goes above a certain level you become immobile like a Michelin man https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmodded-flc-v0-vrmyn6uze70e1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1967%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D022658ca1e878ef388302dc9df8a154c50d945dd Ever run canteens and a large utility pouch like that on a warbelt and hiked 10-20 miles? You'll hate your life afterwards. Plus you won't be able to use a pack that has a belt with that warbelt. The key is a balance between mobility and bare bones sustainment stuff on your main line gear. Like I've said on here, while I can put a good argument forward for chest rigs, belt kits OR chest rigs / plate carriers (or a combo of the two in some cases) seems to be the direction to go - depending on whether you are operating out of a vehicle or not. If you AREN'T going to operate out of a vehicle, just get a set of belt kit. Don't try to jerry rig a warbelt with canteens + whatever, chest rig or LBV or whatever. If you ARE going to operate out of a vehicle, then a chest rig / plate carrier is the way to go. And if you are going to run a belt with those, you want it to be a very minimal warbelt. (Really, trust me, you don't want to run canteens and stuff on a warbelt, at least not the kind of warbelt most guys run. Yes, it can be done, and there's nothing wrong with doing it short term, but you will quickly find that trying to wear a warbelt and walking long distances sucks. And wearing a warbelt and having bulky items like canteens and stuff on your hips in a car - or anything behind your back - is going to....not be fun or even doable in alot of cases.) Try it out. Go get a warbelt, put some canteen pouches back behind your hips and some kind of pouch in the rear, and get in and out of your car a few times. Try doing a 10-20 mile ruck wearing a warbelt in addition to your gear. When you say war belt as opposed to belt kit, do you mean the Marine/ATS/HSGI belts? Jeff Gurwitch's (sp?) Modern Tactical Shooting channel has several videos of his moderately loaded war belt with suspenders, seems practical. |
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Originally Posted By brachiosaur: When you say war belt as opposed to belt kit, do you mean the Marine/ATS/HSGI belts? Jeff Gurwitch's (sp?) Modern Tactical Shooting channel has several videos of his moderately loaded war belt with suspenders, seems practical. No. Those kinda fall in an in-between category. I was referring to the slim-lined 'warbelts' - the inner / outer belts (or the same sized ones with a velcro on pad on the inside, which is how I prefer to run those) that is in popularity right now. And full-sized belt kits. Modern British style belt kits specifically - JayJays, Crossfire DZ Rig, the ones I make, etc. The ATS / HSGI belts are the OG oldschool warbelts and are kinda in-between. My first warbelt was an ATS one, and I still have a couple floating around my gear tubs. They CAN run more weight on them than the modern warbelts, but they still get annoying if you load them down too much. They are more comfortable for longer-wear, and can take suspenders. But like I said, it's easy to load them down too much. Some guys try to turn the ATS belts into full sized belt kits, buttpack and all - and it can be done. I did it for a little while. But it's subpar compared to the dedicated belt kits. This is where gear gets really personal and tailored to what you are doing with them. I have slimlined warbelts, the padded ATS style warbelts, and the full sized belt kits. The thing is they all have their place. If I'm running a stripped down load on a plate carrier and will be working out of a vehicle and basically never away from it, I'd probably want the slimlined warbelts. This is why they are popular - our troops adopted to the GWOT war where alot of the war was run that way. If I'm going to be out on foot alot more, and wearing a chest rig or plate carrier, and I want to carry some extra water on my belt, but not a full sized belt kit, the ATS style belt with a couple water bottle pouches added to it and simple suspenders might be a better pick. If I'm out playing light infantry in the mountains or jungle, and never getting in a vehicle, skip all that - I'm running a full sized modern belt kit with buttpack and stuff. This is why blanket statements like 'chest rigs are useless' - while I get some of what he is TRYING to say - isn't right. While we cannot give custom gear to every soldier, and we have to standardize on something - thus the FLC and then the chest rigs - some missions DO work better with custom gear setups than others. The jungle dudes are very much a real example of this. If we end up fighting this big war against China, you will quickly see armor going our of favor and full sized belt kits coming back BIG TIME. |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: No. Those kinda fall in an in-between category. I was referring to the slim-lined 'warbelts' - the inner / outer belts (or the same sized ones with a velcro on pad on the inside, which is how I prefer to run those) that is in popularity right now. And full-sized belt kits. Modern British style belt kits specifically - JayJays, Crossfire DZ Rig, the ones I make, etc. The ATS / HSGI belts are the OG oldschool warbelts and are kinda in-between. My first warbelt was an ATS one, and I still have a couple floating around my gear tubs. They CAN run more weight on them than the modern warbelts, but they still get annoying if you load them down too much. They are more comfortable for longer-wear, and can take suspenders. But like I said, it's easy to load them down too much. Some guys try to turn the ATS belts into full sized belt kits, buttpack and all - and it can be done. I did it for a little while. But it's subpar compared to the dedicated belt kits. This is where gear gets really personal and tailored to what you are doing with them. I have slimlined warbelts, the padded ATS style warbelts, and the full sized belt kits. The thing is they all have their place. If I'm running a stripped down load on a plate carrier and will be working out of a vehicle and basically never away from it, I'd probably want the slimlined warbelts. This is why they are popular - our troops adopted to the GWOT war where alot of the war was run that way. If I'm going to be out on foot alot more, and wearing a chest rig or plate carrier, and I want to carry some extra water on my belt, but not a full sized belt kit, the ATS style belt with a couple water bottle pouches added to it and simple suspenders might be a better pick. If I'm out playing light infantry in the mountains or jungle, and never getting in a vehicle, skip all that - I'm running a full sized modern belt kit with buttpack and stuff. This is why blanket statements like 'chest rigs are useless' - while I get some of what he is TRYING to say - isn't right. While we cannot give custom gear to every soldier, and we have to standardize on something - thus the FLC and then the chest rigs - some missions DO work better with custom gear setups than others. The jungle dudes are very much a real example of this. If we end up fighting this big war against China, you will quickly see armor going our of favor and full sized belt kits coming back BIG TIME. This is worth reading a second time, very well said and it puts a lot more context as to the purpose and reason for much of the kit evolution and recycling of platforms based based on purpose, mission, and operational environment. Wars and tactics will always be in flux and changing. Kit will follow, evolve or circle back. My son just finished up a rotation at JRTC as a Light Infanty company XO. He was in charge on a down night and was bored, so he grabbed his NODs, radio, zero kit and went for a walk. Not standard tactics or SOP. He ended up doing 12 fire missions and destroyed two OPFOR battalions, solo. Operational environments are very dynamic. One size doesn't fit all missions and all missions are going to be different. If flexibility is needed, you are likely going to need different kit options. You can make anything work, but chances are, it won't be optimum. Doing mounted ops Urban ops Jungle ops FOB ops Long range patrolling Perimeter patrolling Static site defense, LP/OP Logistics ops ... For many here who are civilians now, your environment is likely more stable for operations in your area, so making definitive statements is based less on previous combat experience and more on your current operational environment. Also known as Operational Kit Bias...it's a real diagnosis in Tactical Psychology  ROCK6 |
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" - Thomas Jefferson
Chest rigs were a necessary evil (Page 1 of 2)
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