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Cheapest belt feed centerfire? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/18/2024 12:02:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: NWRed][Edited]
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Is there anything that's cheap anymore? What's the cheapest currently available belt fed rifle in the US market? 1919A4 kits I think were the cheapest route before they dried up, but I'm not into building kits ( beyond reading about it online) so I may have missed out on some current option. I've recently seen some Daewoo |
"Kid you're so lost, even I can't bring you home" - The North Star
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I think you're right that 1919's are going to be the cheapest right now. They seem to run about $3500-5K depending upon builder, accessories, kit type, etc. I didn't even know what an "MG-47" was - had to google it. A 3D printed amalgam of a belt-fed AK that uses an AR FCG or something? Still not entirely sure what it is. |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
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Originally Posted By jtb33: I think you're right that 1919's are going to be the cheapest right now. They seem to run about $3500-5K depending upon builder, accessories, kit type, etc. I didn't even know what an "MG-47" was - had to google it. A 3D printed amalgam of a belt-fed AK that uses an AR FCG or something? Still not entirely sure what it is. There are steel receiver mg-47s - upside down ak barrel/ trunnion/gas system based system. Been around for 10+ years at least http://dave2.freeshell.org/tech1/MG-47/mg47a/mg47a.htm http://dave2.freeshell.org/tech1/MG-47/mg47b/mg47b.htm http://dave2.freeshell.org/tech1/MG-47/mg47c/mg47c.htm http://dave2.freeshell.org/tech1/MG-47/mg47d/mg47d.htm |
"Kid you're so lost, even I can't bring you home" - The North Star
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Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: There is a shrike/MCR clone coming to market at half the price of the current MCR. Also has some better materials like CHF barrels and a ISO gloss bolt. No it's not the mysterious Turkish clone. It's 100% America made and parts are in production Anymore info on who's making it? I have read Ares/Fightlite had a patent that prevented competition in the beltfeds AR upper market, I've assumed that was why the Turkish beltfed uppers weren't imported, but haven't researched the patents myself |
"Kid you're so lost, even I can't bring you home" - The North Star
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Originally Posted By jhoule: https://www.cryostructure.com/product/mcr-cloned-belt-fed-upper-receiver/ Looking at their website they're offering barrels that fit the MCR/their upper for a reasonable price compared to Fightlite barrels. |
"Kid you're so lost, even I can't bring you home" - The North Star
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Originally Posted By jhoule: The link I sent is their not released yet upper. I have no more details other than what they have on their website. At $3300 that looks like it's about the cheapest commercially produced belt fed, assuming its released. I saw that Cryo posted on reddit "in the next 90 days" a couple of weeks ago in reference to their upper. |
"Kid you're so lost, even I can't bring you home" - The North Star
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Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: It'll accept mags if you use a standard Lower. It's a direct copy of the shrike with minor material upgrades Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: Originally Posted By NWRed: My best WAG is a Shrike upper that doesnt accept mags. It'll accept mags if you use a standard Lower. It's a direct copy of the shrike with minor material upgrades Licensed copy ? |
"Kid you're so lost, even I can't bring you home" - The North Star
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Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: Design patents are only good for 15 years. The shrike is 22 or 23 years old I always thought it was 20 years for all patents but I know nothing about patents, just learned this week there's a maintenance fee to hold onto your utility patent. |
"Kid you're so lost, even I can't bring you home" - The North Star
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Originally Posted By NWRed: I always thought it was 20 years for all patents but I know nothing about patents, just learned this week there's a maintenance fee to hold onto your utility patent. Utility patents are 20year. But we should be past that too. I'm looking into it but I'm sure Paul wouldn't invest millions into this project without doing his due diligence. |
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Originally Posted By Phillbilly: Get that wiselite rpd in the EE! its REDUCED to $4800 , maybe start a striker approved fundraiser? I thinking I'd gladly trade my 1919A4 for an RPD. Had I found an RPD at that price instead of the 1919 I'd probably have gone that route. Cheapest RPD Ive seen in awhile, I was too short sighted to buy one when they were affordable |
"Kid you're so lost, even I can't bring you home" - The North Star
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Originally Posted By NWRed: I always thought it was 20 years for all patents but I know nothing about patents, just learned this week there's a maintenance fee to hold onto your utility patent. |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
|
Originally Posted By jtb33: Pretty sure it is 20 years. The Benelli M4 was designed in 1998 and only recently; 2018 or 2019, did the M4 clones start coming out using the same ARGO system. 15 year design 20 year utility Though I don't see a patent under herrings name for the shrike/MCR. Just the dedicated lower from 2006 and some of his other designs. I've actually heard that he wasn't the first one to make it. And have seen pictures of a prototype someone made years before him that looked similar. Plus tou have the old stoner/ceiner design that is a belt fed AR. The reason we never got the Turkish clones is because the company ghosted Vengarr's rep when he went to turkey to make the deal. Then vangarr passed away |
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Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: Utility patents are 20year. But we should be past that too. I'm looking into it but I'm sure Paul wouldn't invest millions into this project without doing his due diligence. Originally Posted By jtb33: Pretty sure it is 20 years. The Benelli M4 was designed in 1998 and only recently; 2018 or 2019, did the M4 clones start coming out using the same ARGO system. Looks like Utility patents are 20 ( how it works) and Design patents are 15 ( how it looks), which we've passed 20 on at least 2 of the patents related to the Shrike upper. He still has a patent for the bolt carrier it appears : https://patents.google.com/patent/US20110030260A1/en?inventor=Geoffrey+A.+Herring&sort=new I didnt realize the 249 dovetail cut receiver was a Geoff Herring invention https://patents.google.com/patent/US7428795B2/en?inventor=Geoffrey+A.+Herring&sort=new 
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"Kid you're so lost, even I can't bring you home" - The North Star
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Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: 15 year design 20 year utility Though I don't see a patent under herrings name for the shrike/MCR. Just the dedicated lower from 2006 and some of his other designs. I've actually heard that he wasn't the first one to make it. And have seen pictures of a prototype someone made years before him that looked similar. Plus tou have the old stoner/ceiner design that is a belt fed AR. The reason we never got the Turkish clones is because the company ghosted Vengarr's rep when he went to turkey to make the deal. Then vangarr passed away He's got 8 or 11 patents, I think it may be the middle initial thats changing the search results https://patents.google.com/patent/US7040213B2/en?inventor=Geoffrey+Herring&oq=Geoffrey+Herring I emailed the Turks after talking to Vengarr on the phone about the uppers. The Turks said they had a sole distribution deal with a US distributor - shawnee outdoor llc IIRC - indoor shooting range in OK or a lawn mower sales place.....Turks never replied when I asked for contact info. ETA: CANER ALP Wed, May 25, 2022, 4:49 AM to [email protected], me System Defence has an exclusive importer in USA. if you interested with our products. You should contact with SHAWNEE OUTDOOR LLC Colt -->Ceiner-->Valkyrie Armament-->Slidefire , and they went out of business/bankruptcy in 2018 IIRC. One of the Slidefire's just recently sold on gunbroker (auction ended with no bids and wasn't relisted ) and then showed up in a reddit post by the new owner a week later. I found it on reddit and worked backwards to find the old auction. It was another non Colt 6920 built gun so I'm assuming it was built after the bankruptcy from parts and not assembled by VA or Slidefire. ETA: Anyone going to shotshow? Attached File |
"Kid you're so lost, even I can't bring you home" - The North Star
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Originally Posted By 9mmBeltfed: We are working on the new version of our 9mm beltfed upper. Looking to cut chips in 4-6 weeks on the working prototype with production to follow shortly after. Our goal is to stay sub 3k @9mmBeltfed Need to come out with the 308 beltfed upper you were teasing a few years ago. For sub-$3k also 
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"Kid you're so lost, even I can't bring you home" - The North Star
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Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: 15 year design 20 year utility Though I don't see a patent under herrings name for the shrike/MCR. Just the dedicated lower from 2006 and some of his other designs. I've actually heard that he wasn't the first one to make it. And have seen pictures of a prototype someone made years before him that looked similar. Plus tou have the old stoner/ceiner design that is a belt fed AR. The reason we never got the Turkish clones is because the company ghosted Vengarr's rep when he went to turkey to make the deal. Then vangarr passed away Wait, WTF? He died? When was that? |
Lightning from the Sky, Thunder from the Sea!
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed
https://americanpioneercorps.org
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed
https://americanpioneercorps.org
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Originally Posted By Ben: Wait, WTF? He died? When was that? @Ben May of '23 https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Vengarr-is-Dead/151-2648249/?page=1 |
"Kid you're so lost, even I can't bring you home" - The North Star
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Originally Posted By NWRed: @Ben May of '23 https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Vengarr-is-Dead/151-2648249/?page=1 Originally Posted By NWRed: Originally Posted By Ben: Wait, WTF? He died? When was that? @Ben May of '23 https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Vengarr-is-Dead/151-2648249/?page=1 Oh man, I do remember seeing that now. Wow...totally forgot. |
Lightning from the Sky, Thunder from the Sea!
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed
https://americanpioneercorps.org
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed
https://americanpioneercorps.org
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Originally Posted By NWRed: Looking at their website they're offering barrels that fit the MCR/their upper for a reasonable price compared to Fightlite barrels. Originally Posted By NWRed: Originally Posted By jhoule: https://www.cryostructure.com/product/mcr-cloned-belt-fed-upper-receiver/ Looking at their website they're offering barrels that fit the MCR/their upper for a reasonable price compared to Fightlite barrels. If anyone orders, please @ me, i am very interested, but prioritizing to build up ammo stock as I suspect the price is gonna go up given that its an election year. Especially interested in cross compatibility with the barrels, the spares at fightlite are now stooopid expensive so I just dont buy them. Watching the upper price double during covid didn't help warm fuzzys about the company either. |
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Originally Posted By Wammel: If anyone orders, please @ me, i am very interested, but prioritizing to build up ammo stock as I suspect the price is gonna go up given that its an election year. Especially interested in cross compatibility with the barrels, the spares at fightlite are now stooopid expensive so I just dont buy them. Watching the upper price double during covid didn't help warm fuzzys about the company either. All parts should be cross compatible. Barrels definitely are as it's advertised as such. |
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Ah but "should" is not the same as "is", and I'm not sure I want to save a few hundred for a barrel that is so out of spec it may kaboom the rest. I'd also like to know the company is reliable and selling a solid product. As I've got access to an informed community I will wait and get some reviews on this one. As much as I want to buy one today 
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The company has been around a while and has a great reputation. But I understand waiting to buy a new product. Edit: boy was I wrong. Paul Russ's new company "cryostructure" started out good. But everything is getting sketchy and it has come to light that he was behind another failed company where people lost a lot of money |
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Originally Posted By NWRed: @9mmBeltfed Need to come out with the 308 beltfed upper you were teasing a few years ago. For sub-$3k also I don't know about sub 3k but probably still be reasonable for the market. Let us get our 9mm back out in the wild lol but 308 has been mentioned again. |
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Originally Posted By JAG2955: Hey guys, I just got off the phone with Paul. If you want the lowdown, and to get on a reservation list, you need to call. He's got another product in the works that I am VERY excited about-the same belt fed upper, but in 7.62.  It fits on an AR10-sized lower, not an AR15-sized lower, right? I guess an MCR clone in 7.62x51 might possibly be designed to work on an AR15-sized lower if you removed the mag-feed capability. As an M16 owner, semi-auto beltfeds don't interest me as much, but if there was a way I could get a 7.62x51 beltfed upper to work on it I'd be very interested. |
Cheapest belt feed centerfire? (Page 1 of 2)
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