Armory Sponsor
Posted: 6/5/2026 6:36:23 PM EDT
|
Or is it even a question? PSA has these on sale: https://palmettostatearmory.com/benelli-m4-tactical-18-5-12-gauge-shotgun-titanium-blk-11794.html I have an old Remington 870 Express, but I'd like to up the ante for bear defense in the mountains this Summer and Fall. Will a 590A1 work (for half the price), or should I simply go all in with the M4? And yes, I'll be getting some Black Magic slugs for this, too. TIA |
WWSPD?: What Would Snake Plissken Do?
|
The M4 is a fine shotgun, with that said mine lost a piston at Gunsite during a shotgun class. My bear gun is a Van Comp 870 Police, and yes with Brenneke black magic 2/3/4" rounds. I'll stick with a pump in bear country. |
America is at that awkward stage, it’s too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards....Claire Wolfe
|
I own all 4 mentioned. I don’t know jack about the bears. But out of the 4, I’d go with the 590A1 first. A GOOD 870 second . I have a Police magnum. And then a M4. Now the M4 is the badass of the group. But you lugging it around and possibly wanting put a better shell tube on it is raising the $$$$. The 1301 should be the lightest. But there is a reason it’s so light. There is a reason the M4 is so heavy. Just make sure your chambers on the 590 & 870 are smooth. Cycling deal here. You can hone / polish them . Easy to do. Shells can stick. You will not have that issue on either of the Italian lady’s. But $$$$$$. Attached File |
|
Originally Posted By 50-140: The M4 is a fine shotgun, with that said mine lost a piston at Gunsite during a shotgun class. My bear gun is a Van Comp 870 Police, and yes with Brenneke black magic 2/3/4" rounds. I'll stick with a pump in bear country. It's hard to beat the simplicity of a good pump action, for sure. I'd use my 870, but I'd much prefer a Magnum or Police receiver for serious use. |
WWSPD?: What Would Snake Plissken Do?
|
Originally Posted By GlockPride: 590 is equal to the 870. If you want to upgrade, then go M4. Or just go 1301. I'm considering the Beretta offerings too, as long as they're Italian made. I've heard stories about the QC issues coming out of Gallatin, and I'm a bit concerned. |
WWSPD?: What Would Snake Plissken Do?
|
Originally Posted By WarDawg: I own all 4 mentioned. I don’t know jack about the bears. But out of the 4, I’d go with the 590A1 first. A GOOD 870 second . I have a Police magnum. And then a M4. Now the M4 is the badass of the group. But you lugging it around and possibly wanting put a better shell tube on it is raising the $$$$. The 1301 should be the lightest. But there is a reason it’s so light. There is a reason the M4 is so heavy. Just make sure your chambers on the 590 & 870 are smooth. Cycling deal here. You can hone / polish them . Easy to do. Shells can stick. You will not have that issue on either of the Italian lady’s. But $$$$$$. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/26301/IMG_0740_jpeg-3774119.JPG Those are excellent points. Thank you. And that's a nice collection, btw 
|
WWSPD?: What Would Snake Plissken Do?
|
Originally Posted By Cajun_Redneck: I’ve never shot a bear, but that’s a good price on that M4 With that said, I would trust my like with my M2 and slugs if it’s all I had. I never have, either. I do spend a lot of time in the mountains in Grizzly country berry picking, camping, hiking, etc. I carry a G20 and a G40, but something with more power would be better. That does seem like a good price 
|
WWSPD?: What Would Snake Plissken Do?
|
I grew up shooting pump action shotguns. I have hundreds of rounds (maybe into thousands) through my Grandfather's Winchester Model 12 that was given to me after he passed. He never really shot it but I did. A collector once told me that you can judge how much an M12 has been shot by standing it up and hitting the manual bolt release. The farther the bolt drops the more the shotgun has been shot. Well mine falls all of the way to the stop. Anyway, I haven't done this shooting trick in a while but I was fast enough that I could get five clays launched simultaneously at the trap range and I could hit all five. I would slam-fire to do it but I could. I have shot older Remington 870's and Mossberg 500's but not 590's. But one thing that shotgun training taught me is that semi-auto is faster than pumps. It is particularly noticeable in suppressive fire/pop-up drills. The semi-auto guys are keeping up but the pump guys are working their butts off. Understand that I may be a bit biased because of my time in the Marine Corps but of the shotguns that you mentioned, the one that I would want if I was going into harms way would be the Benelli M4. The Marine Corps has tested and continue to field the M4 in combat and I am not aware of any complaints. I bought the Benelli M4EXT and it has been solid. If I understand WarDog's "better shell tube" reference then I would say that issue is an 922R problem and has been resolved on the M4EXT which is assembled in the USA. It ships from the factory with 7+1+1 capacity if you choose to ghost/carrier load it. I have not tried to hit five clays with the M4 but I have pushed it pretty hard and it has kept up with me just fine. And to be clear, it isn't just an issue of speed. Semi-auto (for me) is more natural and not "hectic/frantic" like slam firing the M12. It is more of a shoot, settle, shoot, settle, shoot. Less effort (and movement) of cycling the pump means less effort staying on target and faster follow-up shots. But the M4 is heavy. I am getting older and I notice it every time that I pick it up. My M4 has a light, red-dot, sling, seven round side saddle. Fully loaded it is just about ten pounds. It would not be the shotgun that I would grab for a random walk in the woods in case I want to shoot a rabbit or pheasant. But a bear? It would be my choice if I was concerned about running into a bear. I live in Michigan. My sister-in-law and her husband have been dealing with a black bear that keeps getting into their garbage. About a week ago they sent a picture of it checking out their cars. I asked if they were going to take a selfie with it. Anyway, I would ask him what he would recommend but he has hunted bear with a 30/30 and dogs. I would expect that to be his answer. I hope that helps. |
| In a fluid encounter it is possible to fire the M4/1014 with one hand/arm with the stock pulled in tight to your torso and get a followup shot or two. You could help steady an M4/1014 with an injured arm where you don’t have to worry about pumping the shotgun. I have training where we cycled the pump shotgun one handed behind a barricade. I have a MAC 1014 and a Remington 870 with 20” barrel and rifle sights. I also have a Remington Sportsman 12 semi auto (basically an 1100) with Choate pistol grip stock that belonged to my Agency. I’d still pick the 1014 if it was available. |
|
Originally Posted By 2Hut8: I grew up shooting pump action shotguns. I have hundreds of rounds (maybe into thousands) through my Grandfather's Winchester Model 12 that was given to me after he passed. He never really shot it but I did. A collector once told me that you can judge how much an M12 has been shot by standing it up and hitting the manual bolt release. The farther the bolt drops the more the shotgun has been shot. Well mine falls all of the way to the stop. Anyway, I haven't done this shooting trick in a while but I was fast enough that I could get five clays launched simultaneously at the trap range and I could hit all five. I would slam-fire to do it but I could. I have shot older Remington 870's and Mossberg 500's but not 590's. But one thing that shotgun training taught me is that semi-auto is faster than pumps. It is particularly noticeable in suppressive fire/pop-up drills. The semi-auto guys are keeping up but the pump guys are working their butts off. Understand that I may be a bit biased because of my time in the Marine Corps but of the shotguns that you mentioned, the one that I would want if I was going into harms way would be the Benelli M4. The Marine Corps has tested and continue to field the M4 in combat and I am not aware of any complaints. I bought the Benelli M4EXT and it has been solid. If I understand WarDog's "better shell tube" reference then I would say that issue is an 922R problem and has been resolved on the M4EXT which is assembled in the USA. It ships from the factory with 7+1+1 capacity if you choose to ghost/carrier load it. I have not tried to hit five clays with the M4 but I have pushed it pretty hard and it has kept up with me just fine. And to be clear, it isn't just an issue of speed. Semi-auto (for me) is more natural and not "hectic/frantic" like slam firing the M12. It is more of a shoot, settle, shoot, settle, shoot. Less effort (and movement) of cycling the pump means less effort staying on target and faster follow-up shots. But the M4 is heavy. I am getting older and I notice it every time that I pick it up. My M4 has a light, red-dot, sling, seven round side saddle. Fully loaded it is just about ten pounds. It would not be the shotgun that I would grab for a random walk in the woods in case I want to shoot a rabbit or pheasant. But a bear? It would be my choice if I was concerned about running into a bear. I live in Michigan. My sister-in-law and her husband have been dealing with a black bear that keeps getting into their garbage. About a week ago they sent a picture of it checking out their cars. I asked if they were going to take a selfie with it. Anyway, I would ask him what he would recommend but he has hunted bear with a 30/30 and dogs. I would expect that to be his answer. I hope that helps. Yeah I was talking about the 922r. I installed a titanium tube on mine yeas back. Guessing $180 or close for it. I didn’t know they had models assembled here now. Had mine for probably 10 years. And I label it shotgun king of the battlefield. I didn’t think about the M2 for the OP. I own a field grade for birds and clays. That would be a good one. Get one with a shorter barrel. They use to make a m2 tactical I believe. Food for thought. |
|
Originally Posted By 2Hut8: I grew up shooting pump action shotguns. I have hundreds of rounds (maybe into thousands) through my Grandfather's Winchester Model 12 that was given to me after he passed. He never really shot it but I did. A collector once told me that you can judge how much an M12 has been shot by standing it up and hitting the manual bolt release. The farther the bolt drops the more the shotgun has been shot. Well mine falls all of the way to the stop. Anyway, I haven't done this shooting trick in a while but I was fast enough that I could get five clays launched simultaneously at the trap range and I could hit all five. I would slam-fire to do it but I could. I have shot older Remington 870's and Mossberg 500's but not 590's. But one thing that shotgun training taught me is that semi-auto is faster than pumps. It is particularly noticeable in suppressive fire/pop-up drills. The semi-auto guys are keeping up but the pump guys are working their butts off. Understand that I may be a bit biased because of my time in the Marine Corps but of the shotguns that you mentioned, the one that I would want if I was going into harms way would be the Benelli M4. The Marine Corps has tested and continue to field the M4 in combat and I am not aware of any complaints. I bought the Benelli M4EXT and it has been solid. If I understand WarDog's "better shell tube" reference then I would say that issue is an 922R problem and has been resolved on the M4EXT which is assembled in the USA. It ships from the factory with 7+1+1 capacity if you choose to ghost/carrier load it. I have not tried to hit five clays with the M4 but I have pushed it pretty hard and it has kept up with me just fine. And to be clear, it isn't just an issue of speed. Semi-auto (for me) is more natural and not "hectic/frantic" like slam firing the M12. It is more of a shoot, settle, shoot, settle, shoot. Less effort (and movement) of cycling the pump means less effort staying on target and faster follow-up shots. But the M4 is heavy. I am getting older and I notice it every time that I pick it up. My M4 has a light, red-dot, sling, seven round side saddle. Fully loaded it is just about ten pounds. It would not be the shotgun that I would grab for a random walk in the woods in case I want to shoot a rabbit or pheasant. But a bear? It would be my choice if I was concerned about running into a bear. I live in Michigan. My sister-in-law and her husband have been dealing with a black bear that keeps getting into their garbage. About a week ago they sent a picture of it checking out their cars. I asked if they were going to take a selfie with it. Anyway, I would ask him what he would recommend but he has hunted bear with a 30/30 and dogs. I would expect that to be his answer. I hope that helps. That definitely helps a lot. Thank you very much for taking the time to post all of that. I'm not getting any younger myself and the weight would be a consideration, but I'm willing to deal with it for a little extra life insurance. I'll look at the M4EXT, too. |
WWSPD?: What Would Snake Plissken Do?
|
Originally Posted By VASCAR2: In a fluid encounter it is possible to fire the M4/1014 with one hand/arm with the stock pulled in tight to your torso and get a followup shot or two. You could help steady an M4/1014 with an injured arm where you don’t have to worry about pumping the shotgun. I have training where we cycled the pump shotgun one handed behind a barricade. I have a MAC 1014 and a Remington 870 with 20” barrel and rifle sights. I also have a Remington Sportsman 12 semi auto (basically an 1100) with Choate pistol grip stock that belonged to my Agency. I’d still pick the 1014 if it was available. Those are excellent points. I've heard of negative encounters with bears and other animals where the victim essentially "offers" the nondominant arm while reaching for the weapon with the strong arm. I'm definitely digging the advantages a semi-auto has over a pump. |
WWSPD?: What Would Snake Plissken Do?
|
Originally Posted By WarDawg: Yeah I was talking about the 922r. I installed a titanium tube on mine yeas back. Guessing $180 or close for it. I didn’t know they had models assembled here now. Had mine for probably 10 years. And I label it shotgun king of the battlefield. I didn’t think about the M2 for the OP. I own a field grade for birds and clays. That would be a good one. Get one with a shorter barrel. They use to make a m2 tactical I believe. Food for thought. I'll definitely consider the M2. Thanks. |
WWSPD?: What Would Snake Plissken Do?
|
A 590A1 is going to be pretty reliable as is any pump. But if a bear rips one of your arms off, the Benelli M4 is going to be the only one you can operate with one arm. So you at least have a chance at survival still. I would say whatever you get, run 100 shells of the ammo you intend to use to ensure it runs reliably. |
Member
Joined:
Dec 2022
Posts:
8222
EE: 0% (0)
OK, USA
|
14” 590 / 870 with a +1 extension and a sling is a joy in the woods, light and easy handling in brush. With the extension and one in the pipe that’s 6 slugs. If you’re in the woods, you’d probably first see a bear 30-50 yards away at max, which is well within the range of accuracy with slugs out of a 14” If you want light weight, for comparison purposes my 14” 870 is noticeably lighter than my 14” 1187p Also… if a bear has already disabled one of your arms, then you’re hopelessly fucked and having a semi auto vs a pump isn’t going to save you - but if that’s the excuse to get a semi auto, I’m not judging
|
|
Originally Posted By Swordfish92: Also… if a bear has already disabled one of your arms, then you’re hopelessly fucked and having a semi auto vs a pump isn’t going to save you - but if that’s the excuse to get a semi auto, I’m not judging My opinion and only my opinion, if the bear has a hold on you then there is very little that you can do. But there are a number of stories about a bear letting go, starting to leave, and then coming back. To be clear, we are talking double lottery winning type of odds here. And should that happen, could you even reach your weapon? Is that an argument for a good sling? [Thinking Emoji] But still, I would want to be prepared to use every opportunity that I had to walk away from that situation. I am not saying that is sufficient reason to go out and buy a semi-auto either...... I was playing tug of war with a family member's 60 pound lab the other night. It really got my attention how hard it could jerk on the toy that we were playing with. My son was watching and he noticed it too. At one point he asked "Is that your bad arm?" It was. It had me thinking "what if this was a 300-450 pound bear?" |
|
Originally Posted By 2Hut8: I was playing tug of war with a family member's 60 pound lab the other night. It really got my attention how hard it could jerk on the toy that we were playing with. My son was watching and he noticed it too. At one point he asked "Is that your bad arm?" It was. It had me thinking "what if this was a 300-450 pound bear?" You wouldn't have a bad arm.  I'm an OG M4S90 #11707 fan. The Benelli has proven itself as a reliable SG. But I'm also kinda smitten with the VEPR-12. |
|
Originally Posted By minimike: The M2 Entry 14” SBS is the answer. Faster than a pump, lighter than the M4. https://i.postimg.cc/1XNQgRvg/IMG-3414.jpg That’s a really slick shotgun right there. Is that a standard length of pull benelli stock? I’ve been wanting to replace the pistol grip one on my M2 |
We are the Knights who say Fuuuuu!
Joined:
Sep 2004
Posts:
58036
EE: 100% (665)
TX, USA
|
Nothing "wrong" with a good 870. The 590 & SuperNova are also both well suited for defense against large carnivores. They function well no matter the load or weather. It is true that average shooter to average shooter, a semi- auto is 'faster' on a known course of fire. But I myself would prefer the dependable pump for carry in the woods. Bigger_Hammer 
|
LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED BODY,
BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT SHOUTING "HOLY $H!T...WHAT A RIDE"!!
BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT SHOUTING "HOLY $H!T...WHAT A RIDE"!!
|
Do you want a semi or pump? I will basically always prefer an auto at this point. Originally Posted By Makarov: My Benelli factory M4 LE model suffers light primer strikes and fails to fire ~2% of the time. I would NOT bet my life on it. Have you ever addressed it? Seems like that isn't normal. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
|
Im a big 590 fan but the benelli is better. Attached File  Shotgun drill day |
Do Good
Be Dangerous
Live Free
Be Dangerous
Live Free
Armory Sponsor