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Posted: 8/31/2026 7:49:25 PM EDT
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I recently got one of my orders of some powder from AR. I ordered 16 pounds of their MP-425-1 powder. They list it as between AA 2230 and 2460. I figured it would be great for some 223 and 308 FRT blasting ammo. I opened up a jug of it the other day and noticed it looked a little funny. I looked a little closer and I am seeing a not insignificant amount of stick powder mixed in. I emailed AR telling them I found stick powder mixed in and they took a few days to respond with "Good morning, You shouldn’t have any issues with your powder. Thank you" I actually found this a little surprising. How worried should I be about this? Sounds like they think it is a non issue. However Hogdon recently had a small amount of trailboss get into some varget and they would replace it and say not to use it. These are about the best pictures I can get with my phone.  
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It might be ok, but I wouldn’t want to use it if I had other options. You’re probably stuck with it because it’s next to impossible for you to ship it back. I would ask them a few more questions, like how do they know that you should be OK? Sorry you are in this situation. |
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Originally Posted By MarkBinSC: It might be ok, but I wouldn’t want to use it if I had other options. You’re probably stuck with it because it’s next to impossible for you to ship it back. I would ask them a few more questions, like how do they know that you should be OK? Sorry you are in this situation. Yea no doubt I am stuck with it, I do not know of any place that will do returns on powder. Just not really sure how I should respond to them. I have a feeling they will either say tough shit, or double down on "it will be fine". You just have no way of knowing how different the burn rates of the two powders are. If they are close, it might not make much of a difference. But if it is significantly different, then you might get pressures all over the place depending on how much of each powder is in each given round. I will probably only have two options. Use it as is, work up a load and see what happens, or find a way to sift out the stick. I wonder if one of those fine mesh strainers would work? I guess it would all depend on the hole size in the mesh, and finding one that would let the ball through, but catch the stick. |
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Get some screen of the right size to pass the ball and trap the stick... you might have to run it thru a couple times but it should work for most of the stick. In a case like this couldn't the vendor provide a return label including hazmat provision? at their expense of course. One time I had some bad AA-2495 and they shipped me new and told me to drown the rest. |
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There was a lot of Czech (?) steel bullet M193 that got dumped in USA about 6 years ago, that IIRC was a mix of ball, flake, and stick powder. Supposedly worked fine, but that was weird. Since it's for FRT runs; If it were me, I'd work up some test loads on the milder side, and just run it. It's unlikely the stick powder is vastly faster than the ball. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: There was a lot of Czech (?) steel bullet M193 that got dumped in USA about 6 years ago, that IIRC was a mix of ball, flake, and stick powder. Supposedly worked fine, but that was weird. Since it's for FRT runs; If it were me, I'd work up some test loads on the milder side, and just run it. It's unlikely the stick powder is vastly faster than the ball. Faster, probably not. But I fear it being vastly slower. What if it is a burn rate similar to a slow magnum rifle rate like 4831, or N560. One of my recent orders (close to the same time as this one, but not shipped yet) is a powder similar to VV N560. They have also had a lot of 300 win mag powder listed lately too. I just do not know how that could effect things. |
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If that was the response from them then that would be the last time I did business with them. * Exception if they could document that that powder was blended that way by the maker intentionally. The only surplus powder that I have bought is virgin surplus from Pat’s back in the day. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Faster, probably not. But I fear it being vastly slower. What if it is a burn rate similar to a slow magnum rifle rate like 4831, or N560. One of my recent orders (close to the same time as this one, but not shipped yet) is a powder similar to VV N560. They have also had a lot of 300 win mag powder listed lately too. I just do not know how that could effect things. Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: There was a lot of Czech (?) steel bullet M193 that got dumped in USA about 6 years ago, that IIRC was a mix of ball, flake, and stick powder. Supposedly worked fine, but that was weird. Since it's for FRT runs; If it were me, I'd work up some test loads on the milder side, and just run it. It's unlikely the stick powder is vastly faster than the ball. Faster, probably not. But I fear it being vastly slower. What if it is a burn rate similar to a slow magnum rifle rate like 4831, or N560. One of my recent orders (close to the same time as this one, but not shipped yet) is a powder similar to VV N560. They have also had a lot of 300 win mag powder listed lately too. I just do not know how that could effect things. Just eyeballing it, that's about a 1% contamination rate. So for a nominal 25 gr ball powder charge, that means 24.7gr of ball + 0.25 gr of fill. No real effect on ball blaster ammo. An inconsistent settling and it varies from 0.1% to 3%, still no real effect on a low-mid level charge. AR's are surprisingly forgiving on how low they'll cycle actually. I'd target to load that up at book minimum, and just run it. If the contamination were a fast pistol powder, that would be a bit more concerning, with the spike pressure and potential to accelerate the burn rate of everything else. But it's unlikely to that's a different conversation. But it's not. So, sure I'd start with very low charges and work up. My guess is you're going to find no discernable effect. |
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I’d load up 10 mild loads with decent bullets and chronograph and look at standard deviation and group size & form. If it looks consistent / reliable then I’d work up a load. I’d do the same for any pulled powder or powder variety I had never used before. This is kind of like bore scoping a barrel. Or ‘never meet your heroes’. Up close you get to see the warts. |
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Originally Posted By Grumple: Email AR they'll take care of you. I have about 8 kegs of their powders. I've only opened and used the like Win 748 and Like A2520 powders. Both powders are fine. I must check the other kegs now for cross contamination. Gheesh. Originally Posted By Grumple: Email AR they'll take care of you. I have about 8 kegs of their powders. I've only opened and used the like Win 748 and Like A2520 powders. Both powders are fine. I must check the other kegs now for cross contamination. Gheesh. Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: I emailed AR telling them I found stick powder mixed in and they took a few days to respond with "Good morning, You shouldn’t have any issues with your powder. Thank you" |
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Originally Posted By Grumple: Email AR they'll take care of you. I have about 8 kegs of their powders. I've only opened and used the like Win 748 and Like A2520 powders. Both powders are fine. I must check the other kegs now for cross contamination. Gheesh. They blew him off/ were not concerned. |
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: They blew him off/ were not concerned. Just reread the initial post. Ya that response is strange. Now I'm curious if some inexperienced customer service rep unwittingly responded without asking a qualified person |
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It will be fine. You are already using a pulldown powder without real data and that looks like a small amount of extruded in there. Work it up with a chrono. It may have been a blended powder to begin with. I doubt it but they're out there. |
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I would shoot it. Its most likely blended from pull downs. Theyre probably so close to the same burn rate it wont matter much if you follow their load data. Just work up a load. I accidentally dumped some 8208 in my Varget. It all shot just fine |
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Originally Posted By altimar2777: Reply back "That is excellent news! However, may I have your full name and mailing address? My attorney would like to have them for his records." 
eta: AR said it was fine, I wouldn't hesitate to treat the stuff just like I would any bulk powder, work up a load, and blast away. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Just eyeballing it, that's about a 1% contamination rate. So for a nominal 25 gr ball powder charge, that means 24.7gr of ball + 0.25 gr of fill. No real effect on ball blaster ammo. An inconsistent settling and it varies from 0.1% to 3%, still no real effect on a low-mid level charge. AR's are surprisingly forgiving on how low they'll cycle actually. I'd target to load that up at book minimum, and just run it. If the contamination were a fast pistol powder, that would be a bit more concerning, with the spike pressure and potential to accelerate the burn rate of everything else. But it's unlikely to that's a different conversation. But it's not. So, sure I'd start with very low charges and work up. My guess is you're going to find no discernable effect. This. Start low and give it a go. |
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I got an 8 pounder of the same powder, MP425-1 last month, so I was curious about mine. Just sifted around a bunch of it and do not see any extruded powder in mine. I had wondered about it being a blend as others had mentioned, but it is all ball powder in my jug. Attached File Now my label? Well that leaves a bit to be desired, lol. I am guessing it just rubbed on the packaging during shipping. Attached File I have shot about 40 rounds of .308 Win 150gr FMJ over 43grs of this, and about 50 rounds of .223 Rem 62gr BTSP over 22 to 23 grs of it with ok results. Both were shot in iron sighted rifles and gave me groups I was satisfied with and proper function |
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Originally Posted By onesureshot: I got an 8 pounder of the same powder, MP425-1 last month, so I was curious about mine. Just sifted around a bunch of it and do not see any extruded powder in mine. I had wondered about it being a blend as others had mentioned, but it is all ball powder in my jug. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18550/IMG_6951_jpeg-3822891.JPG Now my label? Well that leaves a bit to be desired, lol. I am guessing it just rubbed on the packaging during shipping. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18550/IMG_6952_jpeg-3822892.JPG I have shot about 40 rounds of .308 Win 150gr FMJ over 43grs of this, and about 50 rounds of .223 Rem 62gr BTSP over 22 to 23 grs of it with ok results. Both were shot in iron sighted rifles and gave me groups I was satisfied with and proper function Very interesting. I just checked mine and it is the exact same lot number as yours. So now I am wondering why mine has the stick mixed in, but yours does not. I did respond to the email wednesday and sent the pictures I posted above asking again if it was really ok, and if they know what powders are mixed. No response as of yet. I did only just now notice they do have a phone number on their site. Has anyone actually called and spoke with a person there? I might try calling tuesday. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Very interesting. I just checked mine and it is the exact same lot number as yours. So now I am wondering why mine has the stick mixed in, but yours does not. I did respond to the email wednesday and sent the pictures I posted above asking again if it was really ok, and if they know what powders are mixed. No response as of yet. I did only just now notice they do have a phone number on their site. Has anyone actually called and spoke with a person there? I might try calling tuesday. Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Originally Posted By onesureshot: I got an 8 pounder of the same powder, MP425-1 last month, so I was curious about mine. Just sifted around a bunch of it and do not see any extruded powder in mine. I had wondered about it being a blend as others had mentioned, but it is all ball powder in my jug. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18550/IMG_6951_jpeg-3822891.JPG Now my label? Well that leaves a bit to be desired, lol. I am guessing it just rubbed on the packaging during shipping. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18550/IMG_6952_jpeg-3822892.JPG I have shot about 40 rounds of .308 Win 150gr FMJ over 43grs of this, and about 50 rounds of .223 Rem 62gr BTSP over 22 to 23 grs of it with ok results. Both were shot in iron sighted rifles and gave me groups I was satisfied with and proper function Very interesting. I just checked mine and it is the exact same lot number as yours. So now I am wondering why mine has the stick mixed in, but yours does not. I did respond to the email wednesday and sent the pictures I posted above asking again if it was really ok, and if they know what powders are mixed. No response as of yet. I did only just now notice they do have a phone number on their site. Has anyone actually called and spoke with a person there? I might try calling tuesday. I'm guessing you were 1st pour out of the feed hopper, that just got done feeding that. I just made that up. But one way for that to happen. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: I'm guessing you were 1st pour out of the feed hopper, that just got done feeding that. I just made that up. But one way for that to happen. It is possible, along with several different ways. I picked up a strainer at walmart, but it is too coarse, as everything goes through, stick and ball. They had a couple different ones, I might try a different one. If that does not work then I guess I will just use as-is and work up a load. |
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You can make screen-style strainers much finer by nesting two of them together and rotating them so the mesh isn’t aligned. Again, it’s going to be slow, but using this technique is about the only way to separate the stick powder. This is moot, considering the above correction… Me? I’d work up a load for what you have. Go for a light start, and be happy with something consistent that’s at most mid-range. Then get plenty of trigger time shooting the stuff up. |
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One approach would be to do some testing, assuming that you have a chrono. Load up 10 shells with pure ball powder and record the performance. Then load up 10 that have an average amount of mixed powder. Record the performance and compare. Naturally, you should do this at the low range of the charges to minimize risks of over pressure. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: It is possible, along with several different ways. I picked up a strainer at walmart, but it is too coarse, as everything goes through, stick and ball. They had a couple different ones, I might try a different one. If that does not work then I guess I will just use as-is and work up a load. Man, you are way over thinking this. It's ball powder for blasting ammo with the occasional stick in it, who cares? They probably put at least one proof round through your barrel at the factory. Work up a mild blasting load and shoot it up.... anything else is WAY too much effort for zero ROI. |
I once accidentally dumped some IMR 3031 directly into a keg of H335.  So I started looking online for mesh screens sizes to filter out the 3031 sticks and let the 335 ball powder fall through. Ended up trying some adhesive screen repair tape I already had in the garage. Cut a 1" x 3" opening in the bottom of a disposable Glad food storage container and taped the mesh over the opening. Amazingly it was the correct mesh size to screen out the 3031 sticks and let the 335 ball pass through.  There were a few shorter sticks of 3031 which still passed through, so it took a couple of passes to screen out almost all of the 3031. It also required shaking the food storage container to get the ball powder to pass through faster. I had bought the adhesive screen repair tape from Temu. I just looked and they still have it for sale from a local warehouse for $0.94 per roll. It's an adhesive wire mesh that after you apply it to a damaged screen you remove the clear backing. It's the one which has a picture of the roll marked Peijing #512. |
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#1- I would test it and work it up, and not worry about it. Use for blasting ammo. Just make sure it is well mixed before loading. Or #2- sift out the extruded powder (very easy to do with the right sized screens) and then proceed to do #1. I have used a grease screen for cooking to do it before. I watched a video about the 16” Battleship cannons on the Iowa class a while back. Every shot has bags of smokeless powder stuffed in the tube, followed by an ignition bag of smokeless that has a few lbs of black powder on the end to kick start the powder burn. Just thought it was interesting. I would not over think it at that level of mixing, though it would not make me too happy either at how they responded, as some more info would have been nice. |
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Originally Posted By tommee-boy-72: If you really don't want to use it, contact your CC and do a charge back for unsafe products. I would tell them that you are going to dispute the charge before doing it. I've found this will usually get the seller to do the right thing. |
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Thing is, they will not want the powder back. So after you get paid do to it what you want. Myself I would sift it out. It is actually funny about sifting the powder. Someone here back during the bat flu dumped some ball powder in his varget. I told him what to get at walmart and he sifted all of it out. Everyone screamed he was going to die!!!! He shot it all up and everything was good. I learned this trick as I did the same thing. You can buy better and more sizes from a gold prospector supply house, or the jungle store. You just need to know the mesh size you need. You can get some very small and large sizes. And everything in between. They are listed as gold classifiers. |
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| I dont think Ive ever opened a can of powder and actually looked at it. I do smell it and look to see if it's putting off any odd vapors. Apparently if powder has gone bad it smells funny and puts off a sort of yellow or brown vapor. It's just what I was told as a kid so I always do it. Ive never found any bad powder. |
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Originally Posted By tommee-boy-72: Thing is, they will not want the powder back. So after you get paid do to it what you want. Myself I would sift it out. It is actually funny about sifting the powder. Someone here back during the bat flu dumped some ball powder in his varget. I told him what to get at walmart and he sifted all of it out. Everyone screamed he was going to die!!!! He shot it all up and everything was good. I learned this trick as I did the same thing. You can buy better and more sizes from a gold prospector supply house, or the jungle store. You just need to know the mesh size you need. You can get some very small and large sizes. And everything in between. They are listed as gold classifiers. Or you could just run it as is, for blaster ammo. |
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Ok, to update, I did end up calling AR and spoke with a friendly lady. Gave her my order number I told her I had some ball powder that came with stick mixed in. Also gave the lot number. She sounded surprised and agreed it was not good and it should not be like that, and not safe to use. She originally was going to refund it, but wanted to talk to the owner. A few days later I got a call back and they requested pictures, so I sent them. A few days later she called back and said the owner is going to replace the powder and is looking for some to replace it with, and it may take a short bit to do so. I told her since I had plenty of other powders to use, it was no big deal to wait a little bit. So they are standing behind their products and are making it right. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Ok, to update, I did end up calling AR and spoke with a friendly lady. Gave her my order number I told her I had some ball powder that came with stick mixed in. Also gave the lot number. She sounded surprised and agreed it was not good and it should not be like that, and not safe to use. She originally was going to refund it, but wanted to talk to the owner. A few days later I got a call back and they requested pictures, so I sent them. A few days later she called back and said the owner is going to replace the powder and is looking for some to replace it with, and it may take a short bit to do so. I told her since I had plenty of other powders to use, it was no big deal to wait a little bit. So they are standing behind their products and are making it right. Great! FWIW- I'm like the others, if you're using it for blasting- just use as is. Of course work up but dont overthink this. If you were going to use it for higher pressure or matching other loads-- shift thru it . |
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