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Posted: 9/5/2025 5:58:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: acman145acp][Edited]
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What is a reasonable 100 yard group size and quantity of shots? How many shots before to hot and accuracy degrades? How much does it degrade? Eta i should have stated i reload too so all that is relevant. Any velocity i should be looking for /stay below with lead ??? Thanks for your time |
| My winchester with a 24" barrel can do 3" groups at 125 yards with the 185 grain handloads I use. I have never had an issue with the barrel heating up even when plinking for fun. I will say that certain powders....Lil Gun for example do make it hotter than say....longshot or H110 |
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Generally it seems that .44 carbines may shoot worse than comparable .357 guns, .431 bullets might be something to consider. My .44 Henry's barrel heats up surprisingly fast but I don't really shoot it that much or that quickly (DNR slow fire range rules) to see how it affects accuracy. I can get about a palm sized group, standing, with 180 grain Remington SPs at 50 yards with the stock sights. I think I can do better when I get a low powered scope, likely either a Leupold 2.5x20 or their Freedom scout scope (more on an IER scope). I have not shot it past 50 yards and with my eyes won't even try until I get an optic on it. |
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I use 23.5 grains H110 and a 240 gr Horniday hpt. The Henry is minute of paper plate at 100 yds with red dot . The Marlin is minute of coffee cup at 100 yds perhaps better. The CVA Scout single shot pounds the same bullet into a 2 in or smaller group consistently . I would hunt the Henry at 50 yds and less and expect good results . The Henry is a very safe design it’s just not that tight at 100 but it depends how you hunt if you push deer and snap shoot it works. If you shoot from a solid rest the CVA is much more precise. Past 100 yds you really should look at other calibers . 35 Whelen , 45-70 etc |
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My old Marlin (microgroove) is consistent hitting an 8" steel plate at 100 yards, with 180 grain jacketed hand loads and a peep sight. I worked up the load with a scope, but I hate a scope on that gun. It's not nearly as good with 240 grain bullets and cast just doesn't work. I will say this - damn near anyone can take that little straight stocked gun and ring steel, with a good boom, minimal recoil and just enough delay before you hear the bong and see the plate fly. If you are good, you can hit the plate on the return swing, which is a hoot. |
Tennessee Squire
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Non Illegitimus Carborundum Tibi
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I appreciate the reply's I guess what i have now is somewhat normal. Just got my henry back from warranty they installed a new barrel. It was minute of VW beetle brand new no BS. Now it's probably 3.5"~ gun with xtp's reloads at a 100. With creampuff 1000 fps lead 240 smashers it's about 10" at 50 yards couldn't see point of shooting them farther. With bayou swc 1200 fps lead 240 they keyhole / 16" spread at 50 i only shot 3. I never realized it was such a trick to get a 44 lever gun that shot lead???? I just assumed i was going to be able to shoot lead / double the shooting for same money. |
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Ruger 96/44 will shoot clover leafs at 100 yards. 240gr XTP with 20 gr 2400. One of my favorite rifles for deer. Close range in brush. Henry X 44mag. One of the worse guns I've ever purchased. Barely keep it on a full size paper plate, 6moa plus. Tried the reloads above and couple different factory rounds, Remington and Winchester no difference. Sold cheap at gun show. Could easily out shoot it with both my S&W 629's. Should add at the same time. My nephew purchased a Henry 30-30. Same results. Wouldn't shoot good enough to even sight it in. 7-8 inch at 50 yards. Not sure what's up with Henry but NEVER again. |
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Originally Posted By Chipper44mag: Ruger 96/44 will shoot clover leafs at 100 yards. 240gr XTP with 20 gr 2400. One of my favorite rifles for deer. Close range in brush. Henry X 44mag. One of the worse guns I've ever purchased. Barely keep it on a full size paper plate, 6moa plus. Tried the reloads above and couple different factory rounds, Remington and Winchester no difference. Sold cheap at gun show. Could easily out shoot it with both my S&W 629's. Should add at the same time. My nephew purchased a Henry 30-30. Same results. Wouldn't shoot good enough to even sight it in. 7-8 inch at 50 yards. Not sure what's up with Henry but NEVER again. I would be hard pressed to recommend a henry. After thinking on it a while Very disappointed a pistol cal lever gun that won't shoot lead or jacketed bullets just seems ridiculous for what they cost IMO |
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Originally Posted By wvfarrier: My winchester with a 24" barrel can do 3" groups at 125 yards with the 185 grain handloads I use. I have never had an issue with the barrel heating up even when plinking for fun. I will say that certain powders....Lil Gun for example do make it hotter than say....longshot or H110 This is true! I am not recalling off the top of my head which powder but barrel heat was a lot more noticeable with one over some of the others I used. Maybe it was AA5 that was warming the barrel in .357 lever gun loads. 2400 was on the cooler side iirc. I played with a lot of powders this summer,…..Clays, W231, AA2, True Blue, Universal, Zip, WST, AA5. I was looking for a mid level accuracy load not a hot hunting load. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By brachiosaur: Generally it seems that .44 carbines may shoot worse than comparable .357 guns, .431 bullets might be something to consider. My .44 Henry's barrel heats up surprisingly fast but I don't really shoot it that much or that quickly (DNR slow fire range rules) to see how it affects accuracy. I can get about a palm sized group, standing, with 180 grain Remington SPs at 50 yards with the stock sights. I think I can do better when I get a low powered scope, likely either a Leupold 2.5x20 or their Freedom scout scope (more on an IER scope). I have not shot it past 50 yards and with my eyes won't even try until I get an optic on it. Ditto on the eyes. I was working with the Marlin 1894 .357 a lot this summer. I was using my cast bullets and I was having accuracy issues a lot as I was working out the casting of them. I still had issues mostly because I was trying to keep them too slow. Once I sped them up a couple hundred fps things came together. I was really doubting myself due to eyesight and irons. I knew I hated semi buckhorns, stepped up to a peep sight then in my head for reload development I moved to the Leupold 1-4.5x freedom scope. At least with the scope I knew it was the bullets or the loads and not my inability to focus or see as sharply as I wanted to. In short order I straightened out my mold, my casting and the loads. I have yet to go back to the peep but will I think. I also picked up a Winchester 92 .44-40 and that has been a challenge with buckhorns. I intend to change them out but have been working up good loads once I stopped buying low grade Acme cast bullets. They don’t seem to do much QC and ship a lot of bullets with poorly filled out bases with defects. That will always limit accuracy. I have to fight to maintain focus and often have to stop and look away and rest the eyes. Old man problems. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By GimmeLibertee: My Ruger Marlin 1894 SBL shoots about 1 MOA with Hornady Custom 240 gr XTPs. I had an older pre-Remlin JM Marlin that couldn’t hold 6” at 100 yds, no matter what ammo I tried. The older JM marked Marlin 1894 .44s with 1/38 twist weren’t really that accurate. A buddy had one years ago and your results seem to match mine. My new 1894 SBL is minute of the palm of my hand or better with just about any ammo. Ruger really improved this rifle with advanced manufacturing techniques (versus old worn out tooling) and a 1/20 twist. Probably more than anything else in the original Marlin line. |
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Originally Posted By konger: The older JM marked Marlin 1894 .44s with 1/38 twist weren’t really that accurate. A buddy had one years ago and your results seem to match mine. My new 1894 SBL is minute of the palm of my hand or better with just about any ammo. Ruger really improved this rifle with advanced manufacturing techniques (versus old worn out tooling) and a 1/20 twist. Probably more than anything else in the original Marlin line. Any handloading lead for the marlin / ruger? |
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Originally Posted By acman145acp: Any handloading lead for the marlin / ruger? Originally Posted By acman145acp: Originally Posted By konger: The older JM marked Marlin 1894 .44s with 1/38 twist weren’t really that accurate. A buddy had one years ago and your results seem to match mine. My new 1894 SBL is minute of the palm of my hand or better with just about any ammo. Ruger really improved this rifle with advanced manufacturing techniques (versus old worn out tooling) and a 1/20 twist. Probably more than anything else in the original Marlin line. Any handloading lead for the marlin / ruger? Sure, it’s conventional rifling on the Rugers. Maybe plinked loads for softer lead and hard cast for hunting loads. I hate lead bullets, so I’m probably the worst person to ask. |
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I played with several 44 rifles when they became legal in my state for deer. They all preferred different loads but usually the 240 were always the best. One thing I definitely learned was that using a Lee factory crimp die made all my loads more consistent and usually a bit smaller groups. Using the FCD made mediocre groups decent and good grouping guns great. I use a Skoal can as my guide at 115 (the max I can get at my house) if I can put 3/5 in that Im satisfied. My Ruger 77/44 can do all 5. It was a cheap experiment that bore out good results. I also learned that straight wall cartridges preferred a seasoned barrel. A deep cleaning would usually set me back about 25 rounds. This was true for several guns. |
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Originally Posted By konger: The older JM marked Marlin 1894 .44s with 1/38 twist weren’t really that accurate. ......Ruger really improved this rifle with advanced manufacturing techniques (versus old worn out tooling) and a 1/20 twist. The variation on the JM guns is huge - some are great and some are terrible. You usually only hear about the good ones. When remington bought marlin they switched to regular cut rifling at 38 inch twist and accuracy improved and got more consistent. Old JM marlin cowboys had regular cut rifling also with 38 inch twist and they are pretty accurate. I shot tons of 300gr subsonic 44mag from remington made marlins (38 inch cut rifling) with no stabilization issues and good enough accuracy. A big part of pistol caliber rifles is to find the best ammo for your gun. Rifle cartridges are all the same (similar weight/velocity, jacketed bullets, etc). Pistol cartridges come in a huge range of velocity (subsonic for special and maybe up to 2000fps or more for magnum) and, more significantly, bullet material/construction. Jacketed bullets, soft lead, hard lead, pointed nose, round nose, flat nose, and spanning nearly 2x bullet weights (180-300gr bullets are readily available in 44). So the variation based on ammo is huge compared to most rifle rounds. |
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I wonder about the same thing. I purchased a new 44 for this years hog season - fast twist to handle 44 mag subs. I have not saddled optics on it yet, so I still don't know what it will group like. One optic I might use is inbound, and honestly - a second might be ordered this week. Both would have laser range finders so I don't have to worry as much about the bullet drop of subs. First is a digital scope (which can see at night with an IR illuminator), now I am thinking about a thermal as well. It is kind of sad that digital scopes have taken so long to develop. We have 40+k imaging with our cell phones, but the scopes are still sitting at 4k. Thermal for the most part has not gotten past 640x480 in the last 20 years (apparently there are some 1280 cores out there, but I have not located any to even gasp at the price). Problem with thermal I guess is sensitivity, we really have not compressed the sensors much over the last 20 years either (I have one of the first generation 640 cores)- so they take too large of lens to get native decent magnification (and digital magnification sucks with such a low resolution sensor). |
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Originally Posted By mousehunter: I wonder about the same thing. I purchased a new 44 for this years hog season - fast twist to handle 44 mag subs. I have not saddled optics on it yet, so I still don't know what it will group like. One optic I might use is inbound, and honestly - a second might be ordered this week. Both would have laser range finders so I don't have to worry as much about the bullet drop of subs. First is a digital scope (which can see at night with an IR illuminator), now I am thinking about a thermal as well. It is kind of sad that digital scopes have taken so long to develop. We have 40+k imaging with our cell phones, but the scopes are still sitting at 4k. Thermal for the most part has not gotten past 640x480 in the last 20 years (apparently there are some 1280 cores out there, but I have not located any to even gasp at the price). Problem with thermal I guess is sensitivity, we really have not compressed the sensors much over the last 20 years either (I have one of the first generation 640 cores)- so they take too large of lens to get native decent magnification (and digital magnification sucks with such a low resolution sensor). I hope you have better luck than me if you plan to reload lead…… If you do shoot lead with success id like to hear what and what gun I would give outdoor legacy a look for thermal needs Texas based company decent prices from what ive seen good YouTube chanel for reviews.. I don’t have the time / motivation to try to sell this and get a gun that will shoot lead by the time i took a loss bought another gun. I can just shoot xtp’s for a long time…. Just steals most of the joy for me not being able to blast lead. |
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