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Posted: 4/12/2025 10:18:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TOTHEMAX][Edited]
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He founded at the gun show yesterday. He walked by It and noticed the low serial number. He called me over to look at it. I started noticing telltale signs that it was a lend-lease gun, but we couldn't tear it down on the table. He ended up buying it for a really good deal and gave it to me to tear apart and research. The only thing I can see that has been messed with is the front and rear handguard wood, along with somebody grinding off the bottom bayonet lug. Everything else looks to be correct.                 
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3-7-77
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
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Any good deal on a Garand is a great find, congrats to your friend. I'd be suspect of that cartouche and the Ord stamp given how fresh they look compared to the condition of the rifle and stock and that the stamps seem to go over the scratches in the wood instead of the opposite. Red paint also seems interesting given how they marked the handguards. I don't have access to my references right now, but did you look up the British Proof for the date code? Can you take a picture of the rifle in the stock at the heel? I'd be interested to see the overhang and how much of the stock was re-sanded. Why do you think it's a lend lease versus a rifle that was returned to the US through a British proof house or a parts gun / barreled receiver? Not trying to dis you, just comparing notes. |
President, Quantico Shooting Club where we shoot 1,000yds every Sunday!
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Originally Posted By Defender3: Any good deal on a Garand is a great find, congrats to your friend. I'd be suspect of that cartouche and the Ord stamp given how fresh they look compared to the condition of the rifle and stock and that the stamps seem to go over the scratches in the wood instead of the opposite. Red paint also seems interesting given how they marked the handguards. I don't have access to my references right now, but did you look up the British Proof for the date code? Can you take a picture of the rifle in the stock at the heel? I'd be interested to see the overhang and how much of the stock was re-sanded. Why do you think it's a lend lease versus a rifle that was returned to the US through a British proof house or a parts gun / barreled receiver? Not trying to dis you, just comparing notes. The gun was being sold for an older gentleman who has had it for decades. The pics don't show it, but the dents/scratches also impact the cartouche. Early gun that falls inside of the SN range for LL guns, red paint, mostly correct parts, no import stamp. I will see if I can get some more pics. |
3-7-77
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
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Originally Posted By Defender3: Any good deal on a Garand is a great find, congrats to your friend. I'd be suspect of that cartouche and the Ord stamp given how fresh they look compared to the condition of the rifle and stock and that the stamps seem to go over the scratches in the wood instead of the opposite. Red paint also seems interesting given how they marked the handguards. I don't have access to my references right now, but did you look up the British Proof for the date code? Can you take a picture of the rifle in the stock at the heel? I'd be interested to see the overhang and how much of the stock was re-sanded. Why do you think it's a lend lease versus a rifle that was returned to the US through a British proof house or a parts gun / barreled receiver? Not trying to dis you, just comparing notes. Wasn’t red paint how the Brits marked weapons chambered in 30-06? M1917’s vs P14’s and all that? |
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Originally Posted By tsg68: Wasn’t red paint how the Brits marked weapons chambered in 30-06? M1917’s vs P14’s and all that? Yes and generally issued to the Home Guard that weren’t deployable., |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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I am guessing that stock isn’t tied to that gun if it was red painted at one time. I doubt you’d get the red painted bands off so cleanly and leave that finish. It raises more questions than answers. on that note, who cares, it’s a nice rifle with nice older sights on it. Nice capped front sight screw too. I had one cap style screw on a CMP gun but the socket was mostly stripped so I replaced it. I’d enjoy that rifle just fine! |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: I am guessing that stock isn’t tied to that gun if it was red painted at one time. I doubt you’d get the red painted bands off so cleanly and leave that finish. It raises more questions than answers. on that note, who cares, it’s a nice rifle with nice older sights on it. Nice capped front sight screw too. I had one cap style screw on a CMP gun but the socket was mostly stripped so I replaced it. I’d enjoy that rifle just fine! Not all here painted on the stock, some were just painted on the front handguards. |
3-7-77
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
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Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: The gun was being sold for an older gentleman who has had it for decades. The pics don't show it, but the dents/scratches also impact the cartouche. Early gun that falls inside of the SN range for LL guns, red paint, mostly correct parts, no import stamp. I will see if I can get some more pics. Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: Originally Posted By Defender3: Any good deal on a Garand is a great find, congrats to your friend. I'd be suspect of that cartouche and the Ord stamp given how fresh they look compared to the condition of the rifle and stock and that the stamps seem to go over the scratches in the wood instead of the opposite. Red paint also seems interesting given how they marked the handguards. I don't have access to my references right now, but did you look up the British Proof for the date code? Can you take a picture of the rifle in the stock at the heel? I'd be interested to see the overhang and how much of the stock was re-sanded. Why do you think it's a lend lease versus a rifle that was returned to the US through a British proof house or a parts gun / barreled receiver? Not trying to dis you, just comparing notes. The gun was being sold for an older gentleman who has had it for decades. The pics don't show it, but the dents/scratches also impact the cartouche. Early gun that falls inside of the SN range for LL guns, red paint, mostly correct parts, no import stamp. I will see if I can get some more pics. It's a nice looking rifle, checkered and knurled, seemingly unmolested front sight cap, uncut op rod, 8-41 barrel date, right serial number range. By chance, is there a BNP stamp on the front receiver bridge? Some LL pics for the crowd. Painted handguard to signify a non-.303 caliber:  GHS and Ord Wheel stamp showing grime buildup in the stamping:   BNP stamping on receiver bridge: 
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President, Quantico Shooting Club where we shoot 1,000yds every Sunday!
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Very good pics and telling, correct BNP stamp on the bridge and the stock doesn't look sanded on the cartouche side. |
President, Quantico Shooting Club where we shoot 1,000yds every Sunday!
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Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: Not all here painted on the stock, some were just painted on the front handguards. Yea I should have said it that way. All I can think of is red and white or just red bands, up by the front sight and in front of the chamber area. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: A few more pics.https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000011999-3515712.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012000-3515713.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012001-3515714.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012002-3515715.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012003-3515716.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012004-3515717.jpg Nice! Has the top right side enbloc clip guide been modified? |
President, Quantico Shooting Club where we shoot 1,000yds every Sunday!
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Originally Posted By Defender3: Nice! Has the top right side enbloc clip guide been modified? Originally Posted By Defender3: Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: A few more pics.https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000011999-3515712.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012000-3515713.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012001-3515714.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012002-3515715.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012003-3515716.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012004-3515717.jpg Nice! Has the top right side enbloc clip guide been modified? I forgot all about that. I will look |
3-7-77
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
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Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: Not all here painted on the stock, some were just painted on the front handguards. Paint on the stock could’ve just dripped/run in there as it sat in a rack after painting the handguards I’m sure sarge snuffy wasn’t a professional painter. Handguards could’ve been refinished or replaced. |
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Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: I forgot all about that. I will look Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: Originally Posted By Defender3: Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: A few more pics.https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000011999-3515712.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012000-3515713.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012001-3515714.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012002-3515715.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012003-3515716.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/136887/1000012004-3515717.jpg Nice! Has the top right side enbloc clip guide been modified? I forgot all about that. I will look 
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3-7-77
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
Joined:
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Posts:
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My friends grandfather had a lend lease that had been bubbified, neglected and rusted. It had sat in a closet for decades, water leaked on it. Barrel was pitted, buttplate rusted right through, bayonet lug cut off, gas cylinder, op rod outside the stock, floor plate on the trigger group and bolt "polished" and left in the white. Stock had been heavily sanded with the pistol grip rounded and thinned, looked like the M-14 stocks used by the Tomb guards at Arlington. I asked if I could restore it for him. Had it reparked, picked up a okay condition stock and front handguard, replaced the pitted barrel with a Criterion, I still have the original with the exact same markings on it as in Ops picture. It also has the identical rear sight and capped front sight (still have that and the gas cylinder) It is a six digit serial, I think it was 327XXX, can't recall the last three digits. Pretty sure it had a 41 dated barrel also. |
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Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: Foia came back. The only hit was in the early 90s at the Letterkenny Munitions Center - Chambersburg, Pennsylvania That seems odd. Why would a rifle that was sold by England via commercial channels to civilians via American importers after WWII have reentered the US military system to be there in the 1990's? |
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Originally Posted By HurstXJ: That seems odd. Why would a rifle that was sold by England via commercial channels to civilians via American importers after WWII have reentered the US military system to be there in the 1990's? Originally Posted By HurstXJ: Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: Foia came back. The only hit was in the early 90s at the Letterkenny Munitions Center - Chambersburg, Pennsylvania That seems odd. Why would a rifle that was sold by England via commercial channels to civilians via American importers after WWII have reentered the US military system to be there in the 1990's? My next step would be to contact the CMP and see if they have records. |
3-7-77
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
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Originally Posted By TracksideWrong: My friends grandfather had a lend lease that had been bubbified, neglected and rusted. It had sat in a closet for decades, water leaked on it. Barrel was pitted, buttplate rusted right through, bayonet lug cut off, gas cylinder, op rod outside the stock, floor plate on the trigger group and bolt "polished" and left in the white. Stock had been heavily sanded with the pistol grip rounded and thinned, looked like the M-14 stocks used by the Tomb guards at Arlington. I asked if I could restore it for him. Had it reparked, picked up a okay condition stock and front handguard, replaced the pitted barrel with a Criterion, I still have the original with the exact same markings on it as in Ops picture. It also has the identical rear sight and capped front sight (still have that and the gas cylinder) It is a six digit serial, I think it was 327XXX, can't recall the last three digits. Pretty sure it had a 41 dated barrel also. Nice work. |
3-7-77
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
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Originally Posted By HurstXJ: That seems odd. Why would a rifle that was sold by England via commercial channels to civilians via American importers after WWII have reentered the US military system to be there in the 1990's? Originally Posted By HurstXJ: Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: Foia came back. The only hit was in the early 90s at the Letterkenny Munitions Center - Chambersburg, Pennsylvania That seems odd. Why would a rifle that was sold by England via commercial channels to civilians via American importers after WWII have reentered the US military system to be there in the 1990's? This is what my SRS is showing, no hit in the main books, I'll have to dig out the supplement to see if it's listed: 315369 082346SAA BARREL FITTING TEST 315557 081841SA CLIP XCHG TEST 315565 081841SA CLIP XCHG TEST 315948 010842USMC - QUANTICO Loads of mil surplus came to England and were stored as their laws didn't allow re-import. Sam Cummings from Interarms bought an old British gun company and then started buying mil surplus from the storage houses and importing them to the US in 1958. He sold them through his VA company and sold them to Kleins, Sears, Montgomery Wards, etc. If your SN showed up in SRS, or CMP has a record of it's sale, the chances this is a LL get very slim. ETA: The rifle is a nice example of what gives many of us fits trying to forensically analyze the parts. Long channel stock with a marked ferrule, BNP proofs on the receiver bridge, great receiver, barrel, trigger group combo, but other areas add inconsistencies. The stampings just look too new and crisp, the wood is mismatched, that gas cylinder does not appear to be original to the rifle as it has been painted (and backed on), a practice I think was done after 1942 to address the wear of the original finish and the resulting silver shine of the cylinders. The front sight cap is intact, but also looks inconsistent in coloring. |
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