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10-22 AS A COST-SAVING AND AMMO SAVING TRAINING RIFLE (Page 2 of 3)
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I love my rug. 10/22 best toy in the box and have begun to teach my son some of the basic gun safety rules and how to shoot. He absolutely loves goin to the range with me! I put a bipod and a bushnell sportview with over/under rings. He is a fast learner and is already poppin 50 yds. in a pie plate! LIL PLINKER 
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Please describe, as precisely as possible, the type and manufacturer of sights that you are using. |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
I am using Tech Sights with the bull barrel adapter for the front sight. I am trying to make a Liberty Training Rifle for apple seed. I am also using a hogue stock |
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Not trying to cut in on raf here. My 10/22 ended up with the rear sight cranked all the way over to the left. I removed the barrel (those two little screws on the bottom of the barrel) and cut a shim from an aluminum soda can. It cut easily with sharp scissors. I cut it in a cresent moon shape and put it betweeh the barrel and the receiver on the left side. Then I reinstalled the two screws. Now the rear sight is nearly back in the center of the rear sight housing. If all else fails you could put a shim (or two) at the top where the barrel and reinstall it. That might "push" the muzzle down enough to get you what you want. |
OK, you can try M1A4ME's suggestion, which is cetainly inexpensive and quick. Another method would be to buy a TALLER-than-standard AR front sight post and install that. IIRC you can get them at DPMS, Bushmaster, Brownells, and maybe Midway. One or the other should have one. I'd measure the one you have now to make sure you're getting a taller one. When you install the new front sight post, put a little dab of grease on the threads so it won't rust up over time. |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
You could also try our NDS-23 front sight assembly. It has a huge range of adjustment, and can be installed easily on .920" barrels. www.nodakspud.com/NDS-22.htm |
Huh? what? OK honey, I'll do it later.
I opened this thread an hour ago, fainted hit my head and now Im awake again but drooling all over the place. "kalahnikid"
I opened this thread an hour ago, fainted hit my head and now Im awake again but drooling all over the place. "kalahnikid"
I have the same problem with my Tech Sights- namely that the rear has to be shunted way off to the left to make it hit to point of aim. I will try and shim the it as described and see what I can get. It has been very disappointing to me. |
Parts list please. |
Join us at The Colorado AR-15 Shooters Site: www.co-ar15.com
| I'll take a stab- Ruger 10/22 rifle, Tech sights, Hogue standard profile stock, Volquartsen magazine release, probably also the Volquartsen hammer kit (trigger pull reduction), auto bolt release either purchased (Volquartsen or other) or made. Can't be certain but I would say that the bolt handle has also been replaced, maybe with a .22 Magnum version which is slightly longer but otherwise identical to the original. |
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Any word on the scout mount?
I have one of hese as a trainer for my kid and another WM special for me |
Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere training of the hands to work, but training of the mind to properly reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classed.php
General education should not be mere training of the hands to work, but training of the mind to properly reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classed.php
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Originally Posted By MRW:
Any word on the scout mount? I have one of hese as a trainer for my kid and another WM special for me Unfortunately, no. I dunno if either of the mfrs I spoke to will ever offer it. Hope somebody offers one, though. |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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I have both a Modded 10/22 and a AR-15. At the very LEAST it lets me practice acquiring targets with my red dot.
http://i36.tinypic.com/15iaush.jpg |
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Originally Posted By hikeeba:
10/22 CRR with Hogue and Tech SIGHTS on the bottom: http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/_hikeeba_/Gun%20stuff/Brothers01.jpg I'm typically a wood and steel kinda guy, but that is one nice looking 10/22 |
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Installed my tech sights yesterday and shot it today. I am very happy with them. I will be using this rifle to attend an Appleseed shoot later this month.
Funny thing, the rear sight didn't mount straight, it is about .035" offset to the left on the receiver but is dead on with the rear sight centered. Go figure. |
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Funny thing, the rear sight didn't mount straight, it is about .035" offset to the left on the receiver but is dead on with the rear sight centered. Go figure. You know that is the third or so reference to sights not lining up in this thread. I had that issue with one rifle and used the pop can shim and got it on, two other rifles had no issues whatsoever. I have to wonder if there is a problem with the rifles or if it's with the sights? It has occurred way too often to be just "coincidence" in my mind. |
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Originally Posted By Will:
Funny thing, the rear sight didn't mount straight, it is about .035" offset to the left on the receiver but is dead on with the rear sight centered. Go figure. You know that is the third or so reference to sights not lining up in this thread. I had that issue with one rifle and used the pop can shim and got it on, two other rifles had no issues whatsoever. I have to wonder if there is a problem with the rifles or if it's with the sights? It has occurred way too often to be just "coincidence" in my mind. If by meaning the FS is off a bit to one side of the base, this is not abnomal. Many rifles, including the M1 Garand and the M1A, require the FS to be moved in order to establish initial zero. Of course, this is always done with the rear sight centered, so as to allow max adjustment of the rear sight in either windage direction. If you follow the Mfr's instructions to the letter, and still have a problem, then you should contact them. A small offset of the FS in the horizontal plane ought not to be a cause for concern, as long as everything is secure and the rifle shoots straight and is reliable. If the aftermarket FS is loose, then shim it with some metal (ask for shim stock at a REAL hardware store, or use beer can metal,sanded-down if needed), or, after match-marking the sight and base, epoxy the unit. DO NOT attempt to re-cut the mating surfaces unless you own a milling machine. These sights are an attempt to fit millions of 10-22s, and some manufacturing variance has to be expected both on the part of Ruger and the aftermarket vendor. Keep in mind that the OEM Ruger barrel probably had the front sight and rear sight mounted in conjunction, since they were both barrel mounted. By mounting a rear sight on the receiver, any initial manufacturing errors will appear. You might have to play with the Tech sights a bit, if you are one of the few unlucky people, but I suggest that you do so, as the Tech sights are a great improvement over the OEM Ruger sights. Disclaimer: no financial interest in either company. |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Raf, my front sight would have had to have been off quite a bit to make it work with the rear set in the middle. I corrected it as one of the other guys suggested by shimming my barrel with some pop can metal. It worked fine. The rifle that I had a problem with was a late 1970's vintage. I had one from the late 60's and one from the early 90's and they were no problem at all to mount the Techs on....that's why it was especially frustrating! I had expected them to line up just like my other two and I got to the range and it was pretty bad.
Not a big deal, like you say, they made millions of the things and since mine are all used you don't really know what they have been through since they left the factory. The gun is up and running now and I use it all the time without issue but seeing several other folks comment on the same phenomena got me to thinking..... |
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Originally Posted By Will:
Raf, my front sight would have had to have been off quite a bit to make it work with the rear set in the middle. I corrected it as one of the other guys suggested by shimming my barrel with some pop can metal. It worked fine. The rifle that I had a problem with was a late 1970's vintage. I had one from the late 60's and one from the early 90's and they were no problem at all to mount the Techs on....that's why it was especially frustrating! I had expected them to line up just like my other two and I got to the range and it was pretty bad. Not a big deal, like you say, they made millions of the things and since mine are all used you don't really know what they have been through since they left the factory. The gun is up and running now and I use it all the time without issue but seeing several other folks comment on the same phenomena got me to thinking..... Good work, Will! Like any good American, you fixed the problem and moved forward. Maybe you could tell us how you did it, and save some other folks some skull-sweat? |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
| Look further up on this page it was an idea that was given to me by M14 4me in this thread. The pop can shim works good. A little tough to fit around the action/barrel screw on the V block but it does work. One thickness was all I needed to make it work pretty good. |
| As a fixed-distasnce trainer, the less expensive version will do perfectly. If you want to change things in the future, for some reason, the components which differ amongst the two rear sights can be purchased by themselves, so changing from one version to the other is not a great expense. |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Originally Posted By Psamtik:
I see most of you guys have these on the 18" version, if I am going to put Tech Sights on the 16" version what will be different? My experience is mostly with foreign surplus, shotguns, and pistols, so having this much choice is alien to me! You will just have a shorter sight radius, and a tinch less inherent accuracy, all other variables constant. It will work fine on both versions. |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Originally Posted By Will:
Funny thing, the rear sight didn't mount straight, it is about .035" offset to the left on the receiver but is dead on with the rear sight centered. Go figure. You know that is the third or so reference to sights not lining up in this thread. I had that issue with one rifle and used the pop can shim and got it on, two other rifles had no issues whatsoever. I have to wonder if there is a problem with the rifles or if it's with the sights? It has occurred way too often to be just "coincidence" in my mind. After receiving my Tech Sights, I made the mistake of turning over the packaging and seeing the ubiquitous "Made in Taiwan". That might explain a lot of the "issues".  My front sight insert is physically canted as it was obviously cast imperfectly. 
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“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson
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Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Originally Posted By Will:
Funny thing, the rear sight didn't mount straight, it is about .035" offset to the left on the receiver but is dead on with the rear sight centered. Go figure. You know that is the third or so reference to sights not lining up in this thread. I had that issue with one rifle and used the pop can shim and got it on, two other rifles had no issues whatsoever. I have to wonder if there is a problem with the rifles or if it's with the sights? It has occurred way too often to be just "coincidence" in my mind. After receiving my Tech Sights, I made the mistake of turning over the packaging and seeing the ubiquitous "Made in Taiwan". That might explain a lot of the "issues". My front sight insert is physically canted as it was obviously cast imperfectly. Taiwan is the Republic of China, vs. the People's Republic of China on the mainland. FWIW Taiwan (ROC) has long been a US ally, and their technology/quality level is generally quite high, as in very modern. The ROC is not a third-world dump by any means. If your part is defective, then by all means send it back so they can make good on it, as surely they will. That is precisely what your warranty is for, and you should definitely alert any mfr to defective parts so they can not only fix you up, but correct the mistake so the same thing doesn't happen to others in the future. |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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I just finished building my LTR and couldn't be happier with it's performance. I took the first rifle that I ever bought over 30 years ago and replaced the shot out barrel with a new bull barrel, tech sights and a sling on Uncle Mike swivels. I still need to order several E&L mag clips. I'm still in the breaking in phase for the barrel but performance and accuracy has been excellent so far. One problem that I did have was a couple slam fires during a breaking in shoot. I attribute this to using some dirty federal bulk box ammo and the match chamber being pretty tight. Once I ran a bore snake through it cleaned right up and didn't have another problem.
My buddy went to appleseed a couple weeks ago and he and I will be taking this training to heart. I was never really into shooting while on active duty but this is some great training. |
We live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns.
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I was reading through this awesome thread and soaking up a wealth of knowledge when I ran into a small snag.
This link: http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?topic=1149.0 Produces a 404 not found error. I even tried following it after registering for the site and logging in. Any Ideas? |
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Originally Posted By Korvin:
I was reading through this awesome thread and soaking up a wealth of knowledge when I ran into a small snag. This link: http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?topic=1149.0 Produces a 404 not found error. I even tried following it after registering for the site and logging in. Any Ideas? Try http://appleseedinfo.org/ |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By Korvin:
I was reading through this awesome thread and soaking up a wealth of knowledge when I ran into a small snag. This link: http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?topic=1149.0 Produces a 404 not found error. I even tried following it after registering for the site and logging in. Any Ideas? Try apleseedinfo.org. This link has been wrong for almost 2 months now... So I am fixing it Appleseed |
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I'm signed up for an upcoming Appleseed shoot (my first) and was going to use my 5.56 AR. After reading a bit, and considering that the 400 rounds of 5.56 ammo I'll use up would cost around $300, I decided to just buy a 10/22 and save the ammo. About the same cost, right? So I found a NIB Deluxe Sporter on GB for a decent price, and pulled the trigger. Shoulda stopped there... Since then (i.e. in the last 4 hours) I bought a Hornet trigger assembly, Hornet speed bolt, titanium charge handle, and a set of Tech Sights, adding about $300 to the rifle. Why oh why oh why do I do this....I should have just bought a Spikes Upper for the same money (except that I would have spent another $400 on it.) 
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By the time this thread is inevitably locked and trashed, the horde will have ripped you a new one so badly that your nuts will have crawled back up into your body and inverted themselves into dual vaginas.
-- GabbasaurusRex
-- GabbasaurusRex
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Originally Posted By eracer:
I'm signed up for an upcoming Appleseed shoot (my first) and was going to use my 5.56 AR. After reading a bit, and considering that the 400 rounds of 5.56 ammo I'll use up would cost around $300, I decided to just buy a 10/22 and save the ammo. About the same cost, right? So I found a NIB Deluxe Sporter on GB for a decent price, and pulled the trigger. Shoulda stopped there... Since then (i.e. in the last 4 hours) I bought a Hornet trigger assembly, Hornet speed bolt, titanium charge handle, and a set of Tech Sights, adding about $300 to the rifle. Why oh why oh why do I do this....I should have just bought a Spikes Upper for the same money (except that I would have spent another $400 on it.) And they say Black Rifle Disease is expensive. 
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"No man needs a reason to own a gun. He only needs the cash. " FrankSymptoms
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Got a 10/22 recently as a gift so I talked myself into a little splurging for my LTR. I put the Tech-Sights on it right off the bat and shot it a bunch. I loved the little rifle so I decided to build it up exactly how I wanted. Here's what I just got done purchasing for the project. I'll be back with appropriate AAR once I put it together and get to the range.
10/22 wishlist
I got just about everything at shootersdiscount.com except the Tech Sights and then found a nice deal on the Hogue stock and Butler Creek Mag at manventureoutpost.com. I was dead set on ghillie tan and was real pleased to find one in stock and at a discount. Helped me justify the GM .920 barrel upgrade.
For: Liberty Training Rifle Need: 1. Tech Sites $75.00 -DONE- 2. ELM Dual-Clip Holder $8.00 3. PC 10/22 Competition Hammer $28.95 -DONE- 4. Bell & Carlson Extended Magazine Release $4.95 -DONE- 5. Volquartsen Automtic Bolt Release $8.95 -DONE- 6. Hogue synthetic stock hvy ghillie tan $61.83 -DONE- 7. VQ Aftermarket extractor $9.55 -DONE- 8. GI sling M14 $13.00 -DONE- 9. 10/22 Magnum Bolt Handle $30.00 10. polyurethane bolt buffer $6.00 -DONE- Extra Expenses: 1. Green Mtn. 16" Blued Fluted .920" barrel $105.00 -DONE- 2. Tech sights .920 front sight adapter $15.00 -DONE- 3. Tech sights sight tool $5.00 -DONE- 4. Magazine: Butler Creek steel lips 25 rd smoke $23.12 -DONE- 5. Shipping: $13.43+$15.50+$3.50 Total so far: $388.78 Still Need: $68.00 ELM Dual-Clip Holder $8.00 2 OEM Mags $30.00 Magnum Bolt Handle $30.00 |
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I took my LTR to the range this past weekend. After we got bored with handguns and nearly out of ammo for them, I switched to my LTR on the plate rack at 25yds. My buddy was shooting my other 10/22 with a 4-14x scope on it against my LTR's "iron" Tech Sights. I beat him. 
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“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson
You've got sick bags and seat belts... Use 'em.
Joined:
Oct 2003
Posts:
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EE: 100% (151)
NV, USA
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Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Originally Posted By Will:
Funny thing, the rear sight didn't mount straight, it is about .035" offset to the left on the receiver but is dead on with the rear sight centered. Go figure. You know that is the third or so reference to sights not lining up in this thread. I had that issue with one rifle and used the pop can shim and got it on, two other rifles had no issues whatsoever. I have to wonder if there is a problem with the rifles or if it's with the sights? It has occurred way too often to be just "coincidence" in my mind. After receiving my Tech Sights, I made the mistake of turning over the packaging and seeing the ubiquitous "Made in Taiwan". That might explain a lot of the "issues". My front sight insert is physically canted as it was obviously cast imperfectly. Taiwan is the Republic of China, vs. the People's Republic of China on the mainland. FWIW Taiwan (ROC) has long been a US ally, and their technology/quality level is generally quite high, as in very modern. The ROC is not a third-world dump by any means. If your part is defective, then by all means send it back so they can make good on it, as surely they will. That is precisely what your warranty is for, and you should definitely alert any mfr to defective parts so they can not only fix you up, but correct the mistake so the same thing doesn't happen to others in the future. Taiawan - where most of the world's computer chips and many of our smartphones are made. HTC in particular 
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Pistol Caliber AR-15s and Glocks Rock!
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Rather than have the barrel cut for a dovetail, you can use the NDS front sight base. To have an all in one adjustment tool, just get the Tech Sights SKS adjuster that does the Tech Sights rear and SKS front sight post.
My LTR: 
I am going to add an ER Shaw threaded barrel and the NDS front eventually... just waiting for my tax stamp to take possession of my SWR Spectre. |
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
كافر
كافر
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I just shot my first Appleseed two weeks ago, it was very challenging, especially the standing-to-sitting, or standing-to-prone phases.
I actually ran out of time and didn't even get any shots off at the third standing-to-prone target. I got my Rifleman patch on the first day, and was too hung-over to shoot the next day. Oops 
We had a lot of fun, and I'm going to do it again to try and get over 240. Used this rifle. 
ETA: If you think that Appleseed if for newbies and kids think again. It is a very good shooting clinic even for "advanced shooters" and really helps you proof your techniques and check out your gear. 
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Yes, our parts are tight, we did that on purpose.
Don't sweat it. It's a service rifle, not a Fabergé egg. "Hognose'
Don't sweat it. It's a service rifle, not a Fabergé egg. "Hognose'
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Originally Posted By Lancelot:
I'm finally building my rifle. So here's my question. Which version of the Tech Sites are you guys using? TSR 100 or the TSR 200? For training at 25M, paying the extra for rear sight windage adjustability is not worth it. As for initial zero, that is best done by trying LOTS of different ammo, and seeing which ammo that is reasonably priced, and widely available does the best in your rifle. Adjust your sights to this ammo, and you're done. Just buy a few cases of the same ammo, and do the small adjustments, between lots, as required. Either sight will do all right. For training, as opposed to field use, having a rear sight peep aperture that can be changed out for a smaller one is an advantage. The main point of the Liberty Training Rifle (LTR) is to keep things low-cost and simple, so that the rifle can be used, or loaned out as a training rifle, and the user need not make any adjustments at all. Keep things as simple as possible consonant with safety, reliability, and accuracy (in that order), and you will do all right. Ammo trials should be done from a bench rest, as one wants to eliminate the human element in ammo evaluation. You are looking for consistent group size during evaluations, with a medium-dirty rifle. I linked to a .22RF ammo eval doe on rimfireCetral above, and looking at that link will point you in a good direction as far as which ammo to try first. Once you find some reasonably priced ammo that your rifle likes, buy a few cases. Some folks misunderstand the purpose of the LTR. In good hands, using good ammo, it should hit to point of aim. But, for training purposes, the Instructor is looking at the location, and size of the group of shots, so as to coach the shooter into firing an ever-tighter group. As a Trainer exactly where the group is centered is secondary to the goal of educating the shooter to shoot ever-smaller groups. Using identical ammo, two good shooters might take the same rifle and shoot into different points of impact. That's the way of things. Just loan that LTR out to every kid you can, and get them hooked on shooting! That's the best thing you will ever do with any firrearm, and that's the REAL purpose behind the LTR. If you spend too much money on it, you will be hesitant on loaning out your "Baby". Keep it simple, and loan the thing out to everybody! |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
10-22 AS A COST-SAVING AND AMMO SAVING TRAINING RIFLE (Page 2 of 3)
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