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Posted: 7/3/2025 6:22:48 PM EDT
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Looks like a rush to buy is about to happen. Have gotten more calls today than any other day. Basically "If I buy/ship a silencer to you, will you hold it till law goes into effect?" Meaning not file F4 right away. My understanding is law goes into effect 90 days after signed. |
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Originally Posted By AEnemaBay: Someone else in one of the SOT Facebook groups said that it goes into effect January 1st 2026. Not sure which is true and I don't care enough to look it up.  The income tax provisions like no tax on tips are 01/01/2026, like you I do not care to look it up either. eta OK I tried AI and got this: SEC. 70436. REDUCTION OF TRANSFER AND MANUFACTURING TAXES FOR CERTAIN DEVICES. (a) Transfer Tax.--Section 5811(a) is amended to read as follows: ``(a) Rate.--There shall be levied, collected, and paid on firearms transferred a tax at the rate of-- ``(1) $200 for each firearm transferred in the case of a machinegun or a destructive device, and ``(2) $0 for any firearm transferred which is not described in paragraph (1).''. (b) Making Tax.--Section 5821(a) is amended to read as follows: ``(a) Rate.--There shall be levied, collected, and paid upon the making of a firearm a tax at the rate of-- ``(1) $200 for each firearm made in the case of a machinegun or a destructive device, and ``(2) $0 for any firearm made which is not described in paragraph (1).''. (c) Conforming Amendment.--Section 4182(a) is amended by adding at the end the following: ``For purposes of the preceding sentence, any firearm described in section 5811(a)(2) shall be deemed to be a firearm on which the tax provided by section 5811 has been paid.'' (d) Effective Date.--The amendments made by this section shall apply to calendar quarters beginning more than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act. |
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I really want to know who has been holding off on buying an $800+ can just because of the $200 stamp? If people have been holding off it is because of the paperwork not the cost. Nothing has changed with that so I consider this a nice gesture but nothing that is going to open the flood gates on can purchases. |
It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.
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GOA is fileing a lawsuit against the NFA. It was upheld because it was a tax but that is now gone. |
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| I just want to swap the brace out for a stock on my POF Phoenix 9mm and maybe get a can I can use on my 450BM & 45-70. |
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Originally Posted By AEnemaBay: Someone else in one of the SOT Facebook groups said that it goes into effect January 1st 2026. Not sure which is true and I don't care enough to look it up. Reading it, it’s at the next quarter but not more than 90 days. Fiscal year is September 1. |
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Well, I guess I'm going to Form 1 every lower I own. What I'm curious about is the SOT. Previously, if I didn't pay the SOT, then I would have to pay a $200 tax to get a can from a distributor, then my customer would have to pay a $200 tax to get a can from me. Now, I can pay a $0 tax to get a can from a distributor as a plain 07, no SOT, and my customer pays a $0 tax to get a can from me. So am I in the can business now w/o paying the SOT? @HansonBrothers @Hanson-Brothers @Hanson_Brothers |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By BFskinner: I really want to know who has been holding off on buying an $800+ can just because of the $200 stamp? If people have been holding off it is because of the paperwork not the cost. Nothing has changed with that so I consider this a nice gesture but nothing that is going to open the flood gates on can purchases. I'm not holding my breath on any more positive outcome from all this, despite the rather shrill comments (not in this thread) from some that anyone not celebrating "$200=>$0 is a great win" must be some sort of loser/idiot. It's all a huge disappointment. If something positive comes of it from the lawsuits, great; but I am not counting on anything at all. The giant fumble when Rs had all 3 houses for HPA 1 was bad enough. This fiasco, between Thune and that idiot Democrat "parliamentarian" (that no R had the balls to stand up to) has left me thoroughly disgusted and very disappointed. The Republicans can't seem to get ANYTHING done, mainly because of the vile RINOs. I only vote R, but this is just sickening. |
Feb 2025 It’s 48 to 0 and we’re only 2 minutes into the first quarter
trobertson5-0 I wasn't put in jail for what I did. I was put in it for what I think.
There were FBI agents posting in my threads. I've seen the discovery showing this.
trobertson5-0 I wasn't put in jail for what I did. I was put in it for what I think.
There were FBI agents posting in my threads. I've seen the discovery showing this.
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Originally Posted By BFskinner: I really want to know who has been holding off on buying an $800+ can just because of the $200 stamp? If people have been holding off it is because of the paperwork not the cost. Nothing has changed with that so I consider this a nice gesture but nothing that is going to open the flood gates on can purchases. Apart from the paperwork, this will be lucrative because “silencer”. |
I wanted a mission, and for my sins, they gave me one.
No rules today, sport…just orders.
No rules today, sport…just orders.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Well, I guess I'm going to Form 1 every lower I own. .. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Have some lowers in NFA. Have some lowers not. In addition - in this case - if it's NFA'd you can't loan it out, and you can't cross state lines without hassle - that's still on the books. As to "once configured back to non-SBR, so no longer regulated", is a topic with mixed answers. Because that SN is in the system as an NFA item. If it's run, it will come up as an NFA SN item, with all the regulations around that. Same agents will be aware of a 15 year old letter that said it's no longer NFA if not so configured, and others very much will not know that. At SHOT, the ATF agent I asked said it's still NFA regulated, since "How are we supposed to know?" (if the number gets called in). That's the ATF agent assigned to SHOT to answer questions. Imagine what cops and field agents are going to be like. Sure you want to fuck with that? If you have to "explain it to the judge", that's not a good day, even if he ultimately agrees with you. |
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX: The income tax provisions like no tax on tips are 01/01/2026, like you I do not care to look it up either. eta OK I tried AI and got this: SEC. 70436. REDUCTION OF TRANSFER AND MANUFACTURING TAXES FOR CERTAIN DEVICES. (a) Transfer Tax.--Section 5811(a) is amended to read as follows: ``(a) Rate.--There shall be levied, collected, and paid on firearms transferred a tax at the rate of-- ``(1) $200 for each firearm transferred in the case of a machinegun or a destructive device, and ``(2) $0 for any firearm transferred which is not described in paragraph (1).''. (b) Making Tax.--Section 5821(a) is amended to read as follows: ``(a) Rate.--There shall be levied, collected, and paid upon the making of a firearm a tax at the rate of-- ``(1) $200 for each firearm made in the case of a machinegun or a destructive device, and ``(2) $0 for any firearm made which is not described in paragraph (1).''. (c) Conforming Amendment.--Section 4182(a) is amended by adding at the end the following: ``For purposes of the preceding sentence, any firearm described in section 5811(a)(2) shall be deemed to be a firearm on which the tax provided by section 5811 has been paid.'' (d) Effective Date.--The amendments made by this section shall apply to calendar quarters beginning more than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act. Originally Posted By RenegadeX: Originally Posted By AEnemaBay: Someone else in one of the SOT Facebook groups said that it goes into effect January 1st 2026. Not sure which is true and I don't care enough to look it up. The income tax provisions like no tax on tips are 01/01/2026, like you I do not care to look it up either. eta OK I tried AI and got this: SEC. 70436. REDUCTION OF TRANSFER AND MANUFACTURING TAXES FOR CERTAIN DEVICES. (a) Transfer Tax.--Section 5811(a) is amended to read as follows: ``(a) Rate.--There shall be levied, collected, and paid on firearms transferred a tax at the rate of-- ``(1) $200 for each firearm transferred in the case of a machinegun or a destructive device, and ``(2) $0 for any firearm transferred which is not described in paragraph (1).''. (b) Making Tax.--Section 5821(a) is amended to read as follows: ``(a) Rate.--There shall be levied, collected, and paid upon the making of a firearm a tax at the rate of-- ``(1) $200 for each firearm made in the case of a machinegun or a destructive device, and ``(2) $0 for any firearm made which is not described in paragraph (1).''. (c) Conforming Amendment.--Section 4182(a) is amended by adding at the end the following: ``For purposes of the preceding sentence, any firearm described in section 5811(a)(2) shall be deemed to be a firearm on which the tax provided by section 5811 has been paid.'' (d) Effective Date.--The amendments made by this section shall apply to calendar quarters beginning more than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act. So.... about that Section b,a,1... Did ... they just... um..? |
| I think there is still some stupid rule requiring you to get a permission slip from ATF to transport a SBR across state lines. |
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Well, I guess I'm going to Form 1 every lower I own. What I'm curious about is the SOT. Previously, if I didn't pay the SOT, then I would have to pay a $200 tax to get a can from a distributor, then my customer would have to pay a $200 tax to get a can from me. Now, I can pay a $0 tax to get a can from a distributor as a plain 07, no SOT, and my customer pays a $0 tax to get a can from me. So am I in the can business now w/o paying the SOT? @HansonBrothers @Hanson-Brothers @Hanson_Brothers  Without an SOT, your suppliers would need to submit a form 4 for each serial number (as you noted) which I don't think any will at this point. Keep the SOT. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: So.... about that about that Section b,a,1... Did ... they just... um..? Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By RenegadeX: Originally Posted By AEnemaBay: Someone else in one of the SOT Facebook groups said that it goes into effect January 1st 2026. Not sure which is true and I don't care enough to look it up. The income tax provisions like no tax on tips are 01/01/2026, like you I do not care to look it up either. eta OK I tried AI and got this: SEC. 70436. REDUCTION OF TRANSFER AND MANUFACTURING TAXES FOR CERTAIN DEVICES. (a) Transfer Tax.--Section 5811(a) is amended to read as follows: ``(a) Rate.--There shall be levied, collected, and paid on firearms transferred a tax at the rate of-- ``(1) $200 for each firearm transferred in the case of a machinegun or a destructive device, and ``(2) $0 for any firearm transferred which is not described in paragraph (1).''. (b) Making Tax.--Section 5821(a) is amended to read as follows: ``(a) Rate.--There shall be levied, collected, and paid upon the making of a firearm a tax at the rate of-- ``(1) $200 for each firearm made in the case of a machinegun or a destructive device, and ``(2) $0 for any firearm made which is not described in paragraph (1).''. (c) Conforming Amendment.--Section 4182(a) is amended by adding at the end the following: ``For purposes of the preceding sentence, any firearm described in section 5811(a)(2) shall be deemed to be a firearm on which the tax provided by section 5811 has been paid.'' (d) Effective Date.--The amendments made by this section shall apply to calendar quarters beginning more than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act. So.... about that about that Section b,a,1... Did ... they just... um..? Oh. My. Does that mean? |
Martyr Magnet
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Originally Posted By midwinter: Oh. My. Does that mean? It means what it says. $200 to make a MG/DD if you do not have an SOT. 922(o) is not repealed. There are scenarios where one can legally make a (post-86) MG without an SOT. Not that it happens since it is easier to get the SOT. 922(o) gets repealed, still $200. |
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Originally Posted By gsc0527: Reading it, it’s at the next quarter but not more than 90 days. Fiscal year is September 1. (d) Effective Date.--The amendments made by this section shall apply to calendar quarters beginning more than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act. The next calendar quarter beginning more than 90 days after enactment starts on Jan 1 is how I read it. We missed Oct 1 by a few days. |
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Originally Posted By W_E_G: I think there is still some stupid rule requiring you to get a permission slip from ATF to transport a SBR across state lines. Originally Posted By W_E_G: I think there is still some stupid rule requiring you to get a permission slip from ATF to transport a SBR across state lines. That is also being done away with per the ATF overhaul they posted recently. Now it's just a notification system, where you don't actually need permission. You just tell them you're doing it. ETA: Here Additional efforts currently in progress include: Publishing an updated Commerce Report. Updating ATF Form 20 (Authorization to Transport Firearms) into a simplified notice-based system. Updating and simplifying ATF Form 4473 to make it more concise and user-friendly for both purchasers and FFLs. Publishing an open letter on changes to the Brady Chart. Ensuring uniformity in dealer inspections and enforcement across regions. Publishing a ruling to allow electronic signatures on NFA forms. Reviewing all current regulations to identify and eliminate outdated or unnecessary rules. |
AK building addict in recovery. Fell off the wagon.
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Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers: You were so close with the tags Without an SOT, your suppliers would need to submit a form 4 for each serial number (as you noted) which I don't think any will at this point. Keep the SOT. Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers: Originally Posted By backbencher: Well, I guess I'm going to Form 1 every lower I own. What I'm curious about is the SOT. Previously, if I didn't pay the SOT, then I would have to pay a $200 tax to get a can from a distributor, then my customer would have to pay a $200 tax to get a can from me. Now, I can pay a $0 tax to get a can from a distributor as a plain 07, no SOT, and my customer pays a $0 tax to get a can from me. So am I in the can business now w/o paying the SOT? @HansonBrothers @Hanson-Brothers @Hanson_Brothers Without an SOT, your suppliers would need to submit a form 4 for each serial number (as you noted) which I don't think any will at this point. Keep the SOT. As a gun show FFL, I've not bothered w/ an SOT - particularly as times are likely going to get long again. As the end user, wouldn't I submit a Form 4, and then forward the $0 stamp to you? You then ship it to me, my customer files a Form 4, when his stamp arrives, transfer the can to him? |
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Originally Posted By backbencher: As a gun show FFL, I've not bothered w/ an SOT - particularly as times are likely going to get long again. As the end user, wouldn't I submit a Form 4, and then forward the $0 stamp to you? You then ship it to me, my customer files a Form 4, when his stamp arrives, transfer the can to him? |
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Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers: If you bought a silencer from me, I would generate an eform 4 to transfer to you, we would schedule a call for you to remotely sign and enter your eforms user and pin. Once approved, I would ship to you and then you can form 4 to your customer. Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers: Originally Posted By backbencher: As a gun show FFL, I've not bothered w/ an SOT - particularly as times are likely going to get long again. As the end user, wouldn't I submit a Form 4, and then forward the $0 stamp to you? You then ship it to me, my customer files a Form 4, when his stamp arrives, transfer the can to him? So we're in business in 2026? 
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I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
Don't let the join date fool you... here since '97
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Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers: Yes sir. However, I don't expect distributors or manufacturers to mess with Form 4s at all. This. I foresee a lot of used suppressors changing hands across state lines now that two $200 transfer fees aren't required though. |
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Originally Posted By Bubbles: This. I foresee a lot of used suppressors changing hands across state lines now that two $200 transfer fees aren't required though. Originally Posted By Bubbles: Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers: Yes sir. However, I don't expect distributors or manufacturers to mess with Form 4s at all. This. I foresee a lot of used suppressors changing hands across state lines now that two $200 transfer fees aren't required though. Yep. Used cans on Gunbroker. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers: You were so close with the tags Without an SOT, your suppliers would need to submit a form 4 for each serial number (as you noted) which I don't think any will at this point. Keep the SOT. Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers: Originally Posted By backbencher: Well, I guess I'm going to Form 1 every lower I own. What I'm curious about is the SOT. Previously, if I didn't pay the SOT, then I would have to pay a $200 tax to get a can from a distributor, then my customer would have to pay a $200 tax to get a can from me. Now, I can pay a $0 tax to get a can from a distributor as a plain 07, no SOT, and my customer pays a $0 tax to get a can from me. So am I in the can business now w/o paying the SOT? @HansonBrothers @Hanson-Brothers @Hanson_Brothers Without an SOT, your suppliers would need to submit a form 4 for each serial number (as you noted) which I don't think any will at this point. Keep the SOT. Im really curious how this will all get implemented to be honest. F4 is a Tax Paid transfer where one party is not an SOT. F3 is a non-Tax Paid transfer where both parties are SOTs F5 is a Tax Exempt transfer. Will they make us use the F4 still with no payment? Will we get a new form? Use a F5? Im hoping that they will allow you to put multiples on one form just like you can with F2 and F3. Gonna be really interesting to see how ATF swings this. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: So.... about that Section b,a,1... Did ... they just... um..? Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By RenegadeX: Originally Posted By AEnemaBay: Someone else in one of the SOT Facebook groups said that it goes into effect January 1st 2026. Not sure which is true and I don't care enough to look it up. The income tax provisions like no tax on tips are 01/01/2026, like you I do not care to look it up either. eta OK I tried AI and got this: SEC. 70436. REDUCTION OF TRANSFER AND MANUFACTURING TAXES FOR CERTAIN DEVICES. (a) Transfer Tax.--Section 5811(a) is amended to read as follows: ``(a) Rate.--There shall be levied, collected, and paid on firearms transferred a tax at the rate of-- ``(1) $200 for each firearm transferred in the case of a machinegun or a destructive device, and ``(2) $0 for any firearm transferred which is not described in paragraph (1).''. (b) Making Tax.--Section 5821(a) is amended to read as follows: ``(a) Rate.--There shall be levied, collected, and paid upon the making of a firearm a tax at the rate of-- ``(1) $200 for each firearm made in the case of a machinegun or a destructive device, and ``(2) $0 for any firearm made which is not described in paragraph (1).''. (c) Conforming Amendment.--Section 4182(a) is amended by adding at the end the following: ``For purposes of the preceding sentence, any firearm described in section 5811(a)(2) shall be deemed to be a firearm on which the tax provided by section 5811 has been paid.'' (d) Effective Date.--The amendments made by this section shall apply to calendar quarters beginning more than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act. So.... about that Section b,a,1... Did ... they just... um..? I think there are plans to submit Form 1s to make a machinegun for $200 tax like the new law says on the basis it supersedes the Hughes Amendment. I'm not sure it has much chance. However, there's an argument that a new law saying there's a $200 tax to make one overrides an old law saying only tax exempt ones can be made after 1986. |
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Originally Posted By notso: Im really curious how this will all get implemented to be honest. F4 is a Tax Paid transfer where one party is not an SOT. F3 is a non-Tax Paid transfer where both parties are SOTs F5 is a Tax Exempt transfer. Will they make us use the F4 still with no payment? Will we get a new form? Use a F5? Im hoping that they will allow you to put multiples on one form just like you can with F2 and F3. Gonna be really interesting to see how ATF swings this. New F4 with box showing $0 tax due. |
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Well, I guess I'm going to Form 1 every lower I own. What I'm curious about is the SOT. Previously, if I didn't pay the SOT, then I would have to pay a $200 tax to get a can from a distributor, then my customer would have to pay a $200 tax to get a can from me. Now, I can pay a $0 tax to get a can from a distributor as a plain 07, no SOT, and my customer pays a $0 tax to get a can from me. So am I in the can business now w/o paying the SOT? @HansonBrothers @Hanson-Brothers @Hanson_Brothers Hmmm. I don't believe that was addressed in the current legislation........looks like you're right.....hehhehhehhehhehhehhehheh Or not... |
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