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Posted: 7/10/2026 9:34:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jwf2874][Edited]
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If you take cost and weight out of the equation, what are other reasons you would NOT put a flip to the side magnifier on any gun with a red dot? On one hand i think its great to ha s the option. On other hand you rarely see them Thoughts? |
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The nice thing leaving cost & weight in the equation, is you only need one flip off magnifier w/ a QD mount. Move it from gun to gun, leave your red dots zeroed. And when it's not on the gun, there's no weight, unlike a low power variable. Lest cost as well. There's two variable magnifiers on the market, IIRC, which give you from 2-5X. There are magnifiers out to 7X. Downside is you don't have a good BDC unless you're running certain EoTechs, and ARFCOM will scoff at you for not running dedicated variables on each gun. |
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Lacking any form of BDC. Most red dots have pretty awful glass clarity. Most magnifiers don’t have the best eye-box. You can buy an LPVO and it will perform almost as good, or equal to it at 1X, and outperform the magnifier setup by significant amounts everywhere else. While not a major issue, the magnifier does obstruct your field of view when flipped to the side. That said, I think they’re a great solution, especially on short guns. While I prefer prisms with piggybacks, I certainly wouldn’t argue or put anyone down for running a RDS/magnifier. As time and money allows, I think everyone should try all the common setups to see which one they prefer first hand. It’s much harder to go wrong these days than people on the internet would like you to believe. |
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I run almost all magnifiers. BUT Almost all my guns are shorty 300blks (or 22LR), so short-er-ish range weapons. Almost all my guns run Romeo 4's (I think I have 5 of them, which means BDC reticles) I have 5 magnifiers, 3 of them are Vortex micros which are QD. If I ran a longer gun or longer range cartridge, I would probably pass on the magnifier. Romeo 4 reticles (I actually like the plex, 4 of my 5 are plex)  
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Originally Posted By jwf2874: If you take cost and weight out of the equation, what are other reasons you would NOT put a flip to the side magnifier on any gun with a red dot? On one hand i think its great to ha s the option. On other hand you rarely see them Thoughts? Speed: I can instantly go from 1x to 10x with this setup with a nod of my head. Reticle: Magnifiers do not have a mil grid or wind holds. Sight height: Magnifiers are tied to your RDS more or less for height, meaning if you have a NV height RDS, you're never getting a repeatable cheek weld without a riser and then you block the CH and other nonsense. Versatility: I can leave my P2 on night vision settings and have my AMG / NF set to something that works against my WML if I instantly want to go white light. Basically, the magnifier is heavy, and makes a poor scope. So suck up the 5-10oz more weight and run the thing that does it all pretty well, or don't, but most use of a RDS is for weight savings, and the magnifier reduces that benefit greatly. I basically run LPVO/RDS stacks. Tried it all, keep arriving here. Attached File |
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Magnifiers have very real cons and limitations vs an LPVO. Intentionally buying a RDS/Magnifier setup from the outstart makes no sense. Instead, what makes sense is having a RDS rifle and having a magnifier to pop on when needed is probably how this decision should go. They’re a nice added capability to a RDS sighted rifle. They’re an awful LPVO alternative. |
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Originally Posted By JohnDough: Speed: I can instantly go from 1x to 10x with this setup with a nod of my head. Reticle: Magnifiers do not have a mil grid or wind holds. Sight height: Magnifiers are tied to your RDS more or less for height, meaning if you have a NV height RDS, you're never getting a repeatable cheek weld without a riser and then you block the CH and other nonsense. Versatility: I can leave my P2 on night vision settings and have my AMG / NF set to something that works against my WML if I instantly want to go white light. Basically, the magnifier is heavy, and makes a poor scope. So suck up the 5-10oz more weight and run the thing that does it all pretty well, or don't, but most use of a RDS is for weight savings, and the magnifier reduces that benefit greatly. I basically run LPVO/RDS stacks. Tried it all, keep arriving here. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/453733/ks3_jpg-3793306.JPG @JohnDough Beautiful guns. Do you run the 1.53” / 39mm Reptilia’s because of the 1x dots on top? Like you, I believe 2 is 1 and 1 is none. |
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Originally Posted By Brahmzy: @JohnDough Beautiful guns. Do you run the 1.53” / 39mm Reptilia’s because of the 1x dots on top? Like you, I believe 2 is 1 and 1 is none. The Reptilia 1.7” puts a top dot at the same height as a Badger 1.5” FYI. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: I run almost all magnifiers. BUT Almost all my guns are shorty 300blks (or 22LR), so short-er-ish range weapons. Almost all my guns run Romeo 4's (I think I have 5 of them, which means BDC reticles) I have 5 magnifiers, 3 of them are Vortex micros which are QD. If I ran a longer gun or longer range cartridge, I would probably pass on the magnifier. Romeo 4 reticles (I actually like the plex, 4 of my 5 are plex) https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sigsauer.com%2Fmedia%2Fsigsauer%2Fgallery%2FROMEO4S-RETICLES-2021-V2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=6354750d2749ea578d5bf111a3ce6968696ee097a7b3d820942f1ee63433eb88 https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Famericangunfacts.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F12%2FSig-Romeo-4T-reticle-options.jpg%3Fezimgfmt%3Drs%3A372x337%2Frscb3%2Fngcb3%2FnotWebP&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=585b7d4065eb2080806a886502e763a0c148166a07554c512297a3a1f0936f2d The 4s is a great optic. I bought one years ago and then sold it to get a 4T Pro. My 4s had the Plex reticle and I rather liked it. I felt like for CQB it was good. Maybe on the verge of being great. If I was going to use a magnifier with it I think reticle would have shined. When I bought my 4T Pro’s I went with the dot over the Plex and kindle wish I had gotten at least one Plex reticle. |
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Originally Posted By Brahmzy: @JohnDough Beautiful guns. Do you run the 1.53” / 39mm Reptilia’s because of the 1x dots on top? Like you, I believe 2 is 1 and 1 is none. Yes, although the nx8 is in a 1.70, and it "feels" the same as my amg in a 1.53, to the point that I wondered if it were misengraved. Im sure the occular size and 34 vs 30mm are to blame, but still. I like them both as they are. |
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Originally Posted By jwf2874: If you take cost and weight out of the equation, what are other reasons you would NOT put a flip to the side magnifier on any gun with a red dot? On one hand i think its great to ha s the option. On other hand you rarely see them Thoughts? I only have a mpvo on my AR10. Ditched all my lpvos for just dots and only have a 3x magnifier on my 14.5 GPR along with a Holosun 503g with a BDC on a high ADM riser (it's a little higher than lower 1/3 I believe)...saves me a lot of weight and then need of a lpvo was next to zero needed for me. |
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I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I have a 10.5 with a Holosun ARO with the SPR reticle- almost identicle to the Sig reticle above so it has a BDC. It's good for close, and a magnifier is nice for a little distance. The 1x with the ARO is better than using a LPVO at 1x. I have an 11.5 with a prism + red dot. I like this a lot. True 1x capability and immediate transition to 5x. I have a 16" with a 1-6 LPVO. Guess what? It pretty much lives at 6x, and I should probably just put a red dot piggyback on it. I'm going to replace it with a 4-12 Eotech + piggyback red dot. At the point you consider putting a piggyback red dot on an LPVO, why not move to higher power? In the future I don't see myself ever buying an LPVO again, and would be unlikely do a red dot + magnifier. For me I think prism + dot or MPVO + dot is probably the way to go. If I had to outfit my 10.5 again, I'd probably go with a prism. |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I have a 10.5 with a Holosun ARO with the SPR reticle- almost identicle to the Sig reticle above so it has a BDC. It's good for close, and a magnifier is nice for a little distance. The 1x with the ARO is better than using a LPVO at 1x. I have an 11.5 with a prism + red dot. I like this a lot. True 1x capability and immediate transition to 5x. I have a 16" with a 1-6 LPVO. Guess what? It pretty much lives at 6x, and I should probably just put a red dot piggyback on it. I'm going to replace it with a 4-12 Eotech + piggyback red dot. At the point you consider putting a piggyback red dot on an LPVO, why not move to higher power? In the future I don't see myself ever buying an LPVO again, and would be unlikely do a red dot + magnifier. For me I think prism + dot or MPVO + dot is probably the way to go. If I had to outfit my 10.5 again, I'd probably go with a prism. Can I assume you mean a magnified prism? |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I have a 10.5 with a Holosun ARO with the SPR reticle- almost identicle to the Sig reticle above so it has a BDC. It's good for close, and a magnifier is nice for a little distance. The 1x with the ARO is better than using a LPVO at 1x. I have an 11.5 with a prism + red dot. I like this a lot. True 1x capability and immediate transition to 5x. I have a 16" with a 1-6 LPVO. Guess what? It pretty much lives at 6x, and I should probably just put a red dot piggyback on it. I'm going to replace it with a 4-12 Eotech + piggyback red dot. At the point you consider putting a piggyback red dot on an LPVO, why not move to higher power? In the future I don't see myself ever buying an LPVO again, and would be unlikely do a red dot + magnifier. For me I think prism + dot or MPVO + dot is probably the way to go. If I had to outfit my 10.5 again, I'd probably go with a prism. This is pretty much where im at. |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I have a 10.5 with a Holosun ARO with the SPR reticle- almost identicle to the Sig reticle above so it has a BDC. It's good for close, and a magnifier is nice for a little distance. The 1x with the ARO is better than using a LPVO at 1x. I have an 11.5 with a prism + red dot. I like this a lot. True 1x capability and immediate transition to 5x. I have a 16" with a 1-6 LPVO. Guess what? It pretty much lives at 6x, and I should probably just put a red dot piggyback on it. I'm going to replace it with a 4-12 Eotech + piggyback red dot. At the point you consider putting a piggyback red dot on an LPVO, why not move to higher power? In the future I don't see myself ever buying an LPVO again, and would be unlikely do a red dot + magnifier. For me I think prism + dot or MPVO + dot is probably the way to go. If I had to outfit my 10.5 again, I'd probably go with a prism. I prefer the LPVO. I like to run it at 1x for run n gun type stuff that's up close, and use the P2 up top for NV stuff, or close in when doing dual distance stuff. |
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Originally Posted By JohnDough: I prefer the LPVO. I like to run it at 1x for run n gun type stuff that's up close, and use the P2 up top for NV stuff, or close in when doing dual distance stuff. I have a 4-12 vudu coming today and I have a proving grounds match in about 3 weeks so we'll see how it goes. I picked up a new enclosed venom red dot to put on top to test this theory out too. |
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My favorite is the bottom Attached File |
Isaiah 1:18 - "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD: "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow"
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It's personal preferrence. I don't like magnifiers w/ dots, QD or otherwise. I tried it, didn't like. I do like low power fixed prisms, and LPVOs, in that order. For GP, a 2.5x or 3x etched reticle is the ticket, for me. My rifles w/ simple dots just stay that way, simple. |
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It's on my go-to Attached File |
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Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: Leupold DEVO? Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: Originally Posted By backbencher: Still wish that weird Bushnell? 7x sideways thing was available that mounted under your red dot was available and not $3k. Leupold DEVO? Yes, thank you. It was fascinatingly weird. |
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Originally Posted By doty_soty: Magnifiers have very real cons and limitations vs an LPVO. Intentionally buying a RDS/Magnifier setup from the outstart makes no sense. Instead, what makes sense is having a RDS rifle and having a magnifier to pop on when needed is probably how this decision should go. They’re a nice added capability to a RDS sighted rifle. They’re an awful LPVO alternative. My thoughts after playing the Eotech/magnifier game. Unless I need better passive aiming capability, magnification gives me more utility with a rifle for target ID, effective range, speed at distance, observation, etc. At ranges where a true reflex sight has an advantage over a 1X with an eyebox, I'm close enough that point shooting is also effective for COM hits, and the differential in engagement time is pretty minimal. On the other hand, engagement time past 50 yards increases dramatically between RDS/magnifier and LPVO the further you go. Never mind once you get past your point blank range and need to start holding or compensating for wind. |
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Why do I think there are so few magnifiers? Because most of them suck or are insanely expensive. By suck I mean they require a proprietary sucky flip to side mechanism, have really shit glass, or a horrible eyebox. I find all the 5x magnifiers to have a horrible eyebox. I want a 3x magnifier that has great glass and a good flip to side QD. By expensive I mean Aimpoint has a great 3x magnifier for $1,024.00 retail. One great option is the EOtech G33 with Larue QD flip mount. That costs about $700.00 before shipping. In contrast you have the Primary Arms compact SL magnifier 3x at 200.00 and their flip to side at $72.00 extra. Problem is the glass is so bad I dont shoot any better groups with the 3x than without and the flip to side is kinda crap and not QD. This sad state of affairs is why magnifiers are not more common IMO. We need a good glass quality magnifier that has plenty of eyerelief a ranging ACOG like BDC for 300-600 yards, windage and elevation adjustments for zeroing the BDC and centering the dot, and is waterproof with a Larue mount for under $500 total. This would shift the magnifier market IMO. I bought a PA 1-6× NOVA and a Larue QD SPR mount for under $500.00 total. Why cant I get just a decent magnifier set up for under that? |
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1. People dont set their eye relief properly. They think a long LOP gives them leverage and it does but it also makes the rifle 2-5x heavier. If you're magnifier aint sticking past the charging handle and you got a fully extended LOP, check yourself. You got horrible shooting posture. 2. People suck at shooting. 0-300 there shouldnt be any major holdovers other than windage unless you're shooting subsonics. Reticle on head and you're guarenteed on the body. Anything further out just get an alpha tarac. 3. Because side flip magnifiers suck. This is why unity is so popular. Its FTC, flip to center. The only other remitely competitive products are the arisaka MMH and spuhr rdf as it stows way down to the side. Anyone who got their magnifiers or magnified optics sticking way past the charging handles you should watch how they shoot. |
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