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Who here is using a FRT with a 22LR. What is your setup? (Page 4 of 11)
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: ... I have my 2 arc-fires back from ASD ... and they both work. I bench tested the one with the G2S and my BB upper and SS trip and it passes function tests. So hopefully I can try it out tomorrow (saturady) I guess I can hope, but I am not holding my breath. Let us know how it goes. The ARC-Fire was probably where I was headed after the Atrius if that didn't work. If you don't mind my asking, what prompted their return to ASD? |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: Let us know how it goes. The ARC-Fire was probably where I was headed after the Atrius if that didn't work. If you don't mind my asking, what prompted their return to ASD? Check the main arc-fire thread. https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Active-Safety-Designs-ARC-Fire/130-791212/?page=9 Starting on about page 9, start looking for and reading my posts and you can follow along with the story. |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: What? When did this happen? Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: ... Sadly, artius has discontinued the ambi models.  ... What? When did this happen? Well, I just looked and the ambi model is still on their site for sale. There was a poster in their thread who said he messaged them and they said they were not available. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Atrius-3-position-FRT/5-2795005/?r=-1&page=16&anc=115384108#i115384108 However I am thinking maybe it is the ambi upgrade kit that may be discontinued. The kit to change a non ambi model to ambi. I do not see that kit on their site anywhere. Guess they want to to just buy a whole new unit if you want ambi. Not that big of a deal if you do not have one and are buying new, but if you have the non ambi model and want to upgrade to ambi, then it is a kick in the nuts. |
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Well, no dice with the arc-fire and the G2S. Seems to be the same old shit. Runs fine in semi auto, not a single issue. Forced reset is usually one round then a dead trigger. I did get a couple of 4-5 round bursts, but the rest of the time it was just one shot and dead trigger. Live round in the chamber with a light strike. Tried 3 different types of ammo. I am so disgusted with this damn thing right now. I have spent so much money buying every little part and piece I can, trying everything, testing this, trying that, multiple different types of ammo. Nothing fucking works. I really do not feel like spending another almost $400 to buy that rave 140 trigger and a atrius only for it to do the same damn thing. I am about ready to cut my losses and part this thing out and keep the lower for another non rimfire build. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Well, no dice with the arc-fire and the G2S. Seems to be the same old shit. Runs fine in semi auto, not a single issue. Forced reset is usually one round then a dead trigger. I did get a couple of 4-5 round bursts, but the rest of the time it was just one shot and dead trigger. Live round in the chamber with a light strike. Tried 3 different types of ammo. I am so disgusted with this damn thing right now. I have spent so much money buying every little part and piece I can, trying everything, testing this, trying that, multiple different types of ammo. Nothing fucking works. I really do not feel like spending another almost $400 to buy that rave 140 trigger and a atrius only for it to do the same damn thing. I am about ready to cut my losses and part this thing out and keep the lower for another non rimfire build. Man, I'm sorry you're having so much trouble getting one running. I've been following your posts for months. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Well, no dice with the arc-fire and the G2S. Seems to be the same old shit. Runs fine in semi auto, not a single issue. Forced reset is usually one round then a dead trigger. I did get a couple of 4-5 round bursts, but the rest of the time it was just one shot and dead trigger. Live round in the chamber with a light strike. Tried 3 different types of ammo. I am so disgusted with this damn thing right now. I have spent so much money buying every little part and piece I can, trying everything, testing this, trying that, multiple different types of ammo. Nothing fucking works. I really do not feel like spending another almost $400 to buy that rave 140 trigger and a atrius only for it to do the same damn thing. I am about ready to cut my losses and part this thing out and keep the lower for another non rimfire build. Sorry, I'm running a basic borebuddy trip with a milspec trigger. Try with mini-mags. I was able to get a Rarebreed trigger running OK with blazers. But with the super safety and atrius, I've had nearly 100% with mini-mags. Slightly better with the 36gr than the 40gr. But the biggest thing with them is consistency. |
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Originally Posted By AFCarbon15: Sorry, I'm running a basic borebuddy trip with a milspec trigger. Try with mini-mags. I was able to get a Rarebreed trigger running OK with blazers. But with the super safety and atrius, I've had nearly 100% with mini-mags. Slightly better with the 36gr than the 40gr. But the biggest thing with them is consistency. 40gr round nose and 36gr hp mini mags were two of the ones I tried yesterday. I also tried some 40gr blazer, and automatch. Meanwhile, my tx22 goes burt on pretty much anything I feed it and damn near perfectly. Why can a $5 part make a $250 pistol run forced reset almost flawlessly, but dumping well over $1500 (at this point in time) into a ar22 give me nothing but frustration and failure. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: 40gr round nose and 36gr hp mini mags were two of the ones I tried yesterday. I also tried some 40gr blazer, and automatch. Meanwhile, my tx22 goes burt on pretty much anything I feed it and damn near perfectly. Why can a $5 part make a $250 pistol run forced reset almost flawlessly, but dumping well over $1500 (at this point in time) into a ar22 give me nothing but frustration and failure. The public shooting area I frequent got shut down until May for fucking maintenance. I need to do some more testing with mine and it looks like I will have to come up with an alternative area for blasting. When I crack the code, I’ll post the recipe using a Hoffman SS. 
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Like @ELittlefield did, I too am struggling with the FRT-15L3 quite a bit. Semi is fine, for the most part. In FR mode, I often get a single discharge followed by a newly-chambered round and a dead trigger. If I can get things to run at all, I get maybe 5-10 rd strings followed by an unspent round and a dead trigger. I might have good luck with one ammo one day, but that same ammo the next day won't go at all. I'm starting to think things are affected by the cold. (There's been quite a lot of variation here lately.) I have a BB I broke out the GoPro and filmed the bolt activity with as high a frame rate as I could and confirmed absolutely zero bolt bounce (steel carrier, two small steel weights, two large aluminum weights). If this is a timing issue, I'm wondering if it means I'm tripping too late or too soon. When I function check, it seems like the hammer's dropping very close to the bolt being completely closed, which seems ideal. In the past, I had quite a bit of trouble getting an SS to work with the BB SS trip kit, because I couldn't sufficiently delay hammer drop. (There was quite a large gap during function checking, and I never felt comfortable with live fire.) I tore apart my bolt carrier and bolt to try to get things clean today and discovered I have a red (heavy, 6lb) recoil spring, a red (heavy) extractor spring, and a red (heavy) firing pin spring. In taking a page out of Blowback9's playbook, maybe lighter springs all around might do better. I'm probably going to keep the heavy extractor spring, but order BB's variety packs for the others and play around with them. I may also move from a dedicated pressure plug to a folding stock adapter. I may also give up on the FRT-15L3 altogether in favor of an Atrius plus a Rave 140. I'm not quite to @Jeeps-And-Guns level of frustration or financial outlay (yet), but I feel like I'm following in his footsteps along that path. I'll report back. |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: I broke out the GoPro and filmed the bolt activity with as high a frame rate as I could and confirmed absolutely zero bolt bounce (steel carrier, two small steel weights, two large aluminum weights). If this is a timing issue, I'm wondering if it means I'm tripping too late or too soon. When I function check, it seems like the hammer's dropping very close to the bolt being completely closed, which seems ideal. In the past, I had quite a bit of trouble getting an SS to work with the BB SS trip kit, because I couldn't sufficiently delay hammer drop. (There was quite a large gap during function checking, and I never felt comfortable with live fire.) I tore apart my bolt carrier and bolt to try to get things clean today and discovered I have a red (heavy, 6lb) recoil spring, a red (heavy) extractor spring, and a red (heavy) firing pin spring. In taking a page out of Blowback9's playbook, maybe lighter springs all around might do better. I'm probably going to keep the heavy extractor spring, but order BB's variety packs for the others and play around with them. I may also move from a dedicated pressure plug to a folding stock adapter. I may also give up on the FRT-15L3 altogether in favor of an Atrius plus a Rave 140. I'm not quite to @Jeeps-And-Guns level of frustration or financial outlay (yet), but I feel like I'm following in his footsteps along that path. I'll report back. If you’re getting the symptoms of bolt bounce and don’t have it, the hammer is following and you need to retard it a little more to release as late as possible. As far as the springs, I would go with a standard recoil spring initially. I wouldn’t sweat the firing pin or extractor springs. The reduction in the recoil spring energy will allow for some extra rearward bolt velocity to reset the trigger. Good luck and keep posting your progress. |
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Well the rave 140's were $139-150 most everywhere, but I found primary arms has them on sale right now for $89. SO I fucking went ahead and ordered one. Figured I would not find it cheaper. I have not ordered the atrius yet. But will in a couple days when I get over being pissed off. If it does not work with those, then I am out, done, I give up. I will keep the lower, as I will still be able to use it and the trigger/atrius with other calibers. (might build a 45 acp) |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Well the rave 140's were $139-150 most everywhere, but I found primary arms has them on sale right now for $89. SO I fucking went ahead and ordered one. Figured I would not find it cheaper. I have not ordered the atrius yet. But will in a couple days when I get over being pissed off. If it does not work with those, then I am out, done, I give up. I will keep the lower, as I will still be able to use it and the trigger/atrius with other calibers. (might build a 45 acp) My two Raves came from Primary Arms. They shipped fast. I'm rooting for ya buddy! I hope this is the one! |
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| @Jeeps-And-Guns , you might have mentioned this before, but what recoil spring are you running (if you know)? I started becoming interested in lighter recoil springs after noticing the frequent use of 3- and 4-pound springs on this list). |
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Oh, one other thing I noticed. My recoil spring bottoms out before my bolt makes it all the way to rear of the carrier. Is that normal? If so, I don't see how BB's bolt buffers would have any affect on anything. They wouldn't ever be touched in mine. This is as far back as my bolt will go:   Note how the spring has been pushed down over the rod stop. I don't know if this is normal, either. |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: Oh, one other thing I noticed. My recoil spring bottoms out before my bolt makes it all the way to rear of the carrier. Is that normal? If so, I don't see how BB's bolt buffers would have any affect on anything. They wouldn't ever be touched in mine. This is as far back as my bolt will go: https://i.ibb.co/20W08PKH/IMG-2817.jpg https://i.ibb.co/99gMncMC/IMG-2818.jpg Note how the spring has been pushed down over the rod stop. I don't know if this is normal, either. I've never had a recoil spring that jumped over the guide rod stop either. |
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Originally Posted By shultz: Neither is normal in my experience. I've had several conversions and dedicated setups over the years. On all of them, the guide rod tube would bottom out on the back plate. I've never had a recoil spring that jumped over the guide rod stop either. Thanks for verifying. My guess is that bottoming out the spring compression caused the end coil to be pushed down over the rod stop over time. It sounds like I need to cut (at least) a few coils off of my recoil spring. |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: Like @ELittlefield did, I too am struggling with the FRT-15L3 quite a bit. Semi is fine, for the most part. In FR mode, I often get a single discharge followed by a newly-chambered round and a dead trigger. If I can get things to run at all, I get maybe 5-10 rd strings followed by an unspent round and a dead trigger. I might have good luck with one ammo one day, but that same ammo the next day won't go at all. I'm starting to think things are affected by the cold. (There's been quite a lot of variation here lately.) I have a BB 8" tucked upper, suppressed. (As a side note, boy does the interior of both my upper and lower get dirty fast! The amount of lead that came out of my suppressor was staggering. I have never seen Breakthrough get that color before.) I broke out the GoPro and filmed the bolt activity with as high a frame rate as I could and confirmed absolutely zero bolt bounce (steel carrier, two small steel weights, two large aluminum weights). If this is a timing issue, I'm wondering if it means I'm tripping too late or too soon. When I function check, it seems like the hammer's dropping very close to the bolt being completely closed, which seems ideal. In the past, I had quite a bit of trouble getting an SS to work with the BB SS trip kit, because I couldn't sufficiently delay hammer drop. (There was quite a large gap during function checking, and I never felt comfortable with live fire.) I tore apart my bolt carrier and bolt to try to get things clean today and discovered I have a red (heavy, 6lb) recoil spring, a red (heavy) extractor spring, and a red (heavy) firing pin spring. In taking a page out of Blowback9's playbook, maybe lighter springs all around might do better. I'm probably going to keep the heavy extractor spring, but order BB's variety packs for the others and play around with them. I may also move from a dedicated pressure plug to a folding stock adapter. I may also give up on the FRT-15L3 altogether in favor of an Atrius plus a Rave 140. I'm not quite to @Jeeps-And-Guns level of frustration or financial outlay (yet), but I feel like I'm following in his footsteps along that path. I'll report back. This post hits home with me. My CMMG dedicated carbine with Rare Breed and Bore Buddy runs pretty well. Like you noted, running suppressed is such a pain I pretty much run it unsuppressed now. I really like the fact that, like you stated, the Bore Buddy Trip for the Rare Breed can be adjusted for delay but it sucks that the Super Safety/Selector can’t. That’s what is causing me problems now as I recently purchased a CMMG drop-in kit, Cornfire MARC and the BB SS trip. So the problem with mine also is the hammer is released too soon and follows the bolt home. I can replace the BCG with the 5.56 unit and it works perfectly. I was considering buying a Super Safety to see if I have better luck with it but they can’t really be that different. They work on the same principle. I guess I’ll spend the money and wait for an Atrius too. |
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I can see where you're coming from, 'cause I know where you've been and I can see where you're going 'cause I can see the direction you're headed in. I just don't know where the hell you're at right now.
I can see where you're coming from, 'cause I know where you've been and I can see where you're going 'cause I can see the direction you're headed in. I just don't know where the hell you're at right now.
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: @Jeeps-And-Guns , you might have mentioned this before, but what recoil spring are you running (if you know)? I started becoming interested in lighter recoil springs after noticing the frequent use of 3- and 4-pound springs on this list). I had been using the original spring that came with my bore buddy upper. However I swapped to a franklin armory extra power spring after seeing a youtube video of a guy saying he got his to run using it. That is what is in it right now. |
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Update coming. I have my Cornfire MARC running in the NoDak Spud A1 clone with the drop-in CMMG and Bore Buddy SS trip as of this morning. I will update with picture in a bit. It was something I overlooked and was easy to work out. |
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I can see where you're coming from, 'cause I know where you've been and I can see where you're going 'cause I can see the direction you're headed in. I just don't know where the hell you're at right now.
I can see where you're coming from, 'cause I know where you've been and I can see where you're going 'cause I can see the direction you're headed in. I just don't know where the hell you're at right now.
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Updated in the Cornfire thread, page 5. |
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I can see where you're coming from, 'cause I know where you've been and I can see where you're going 'cause I can see the direction you're headed in. I just don't know where the hell you're at right now.
I can see where you're coming from, 'cause I know where you've been and I can see where you're going 'cause I can see the direction you're headed in. I just don't know where the hell you're at right now.
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: Oh, one other thing I noticed. My recoil spring bottoms out before my bolt makes it all the way to rear of the carrier. Is that normal? If so, I don't see how BB's bolt buffers would have any affect on anything. They wouldn't ever be touched in mine. This is as far back as my bolt will go: https://i.ibb.co/20W08PKH/IMG-2817.jpg https://i.ibb.co/99gMncMC/IMG-2818.jpg Note how the spring has been pushed down over the rod stop. I don't know if this is normal, either. Cut the fewest coils off of it to prevent it from binding. Then, if you feel like it, go to a hardware store and get some o rings that fit over the spring. Just use one to act as a buffer. Replace as necessary. |
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: Cut the fewest coils off of it to prevent it from binding. Then, if you feel like it, go to a hardware store and get some o rings that fit over the spring. Just use one to act as a buffer. Replace as necessary. I ended up doing exactly that. (It was about five coils.) Do you mean use an o-ring that captures both the end of the spring and the rod stop? |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: I ended up doing exactly that. (It was about five coils.) Do you mean use an o-ring that captures both the end of the spring and the rod stop? I was thinking it would go over the spring and be up against the back plate where the bolt tail would contact it. It’s probably unnecessary, but it’s another way to stop metal on metal. |
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: I was thinking it would go over the spring and be up against the back plate where the bolt tail would contact it. It’s probably unnecessary, but it’s another way to stop metal on metal. I suspect it got pushed down around the rod stop because the spring bottomed out before the bolt did, and, through repeated hammering, the spring slipped over and around the only place it could. After removing the coils, I'm less worried about that kind of stress, but I'll keep an eye on it and report back if I see anything out of sorts. |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: I suspect it got pushed down around the rod stop because the spring bottomed out before the bolt did, and, through repeated hammering, the spring slipped over and around the only place it could. After removing the coils, I'm less worried about that kind of stress, but I'll keep an eye on it and report back if I see anything out of sorts.  The spring will probably still work but I'd replace it sooner then later... |
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Originally Posted By shultz: You may already know this, taking a spring to solid height is not good for longevity, hitting solid height and hammering a coil over the rod stop was really not good for the spring The spring will probably still work but I'd replace it sooner then later... Already on order. That was the second thing I did (after cutting away the extra coils). Thanks for the great reminder, thought! |
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So I got my rave 140 yesterday. Seems well made, just testing it in my hand (not installed into a gun) it seems to have a nice pull. I had been dragging my feet about ordering the atrius, because of the wait, but tonight I finally decided to order one. I saw the long lead time they had and spent a few min looking around online. I found performance triggers claims they have the ambi models in stock and shipping https://www.performancetriggers.com/super-selektor-3-position-safety-for-ar-15-all-steel-3.html It seems to be only the ambi models and the right hand only model has a long wait. So if anyone is looking for one, they have them as of this post. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: So I got my rave 140 yesterday. Seems well made, just testing it in my hand (not installed into a gun) it seems to have a nice pull. I had been dragging my feet about ordering the atrius, because of the wait, but tonight I finally decided to order one. I saw the long lead time they had and spent a few min looking around online. I found performance triggers claims they have the ambi models in stock and shipping https://www.performancetriggers.com/super-selektor-3-position-safety-for-ar-15-all-steel-3.html It seems to be only the ambi models and the right hand only model has a long wait. So if anyone is looking for one, they have them as of this post. MAS Defense just got a restock of the ambi: https://www.masdefense.com/ATRIUS-AMBI-FORCED-RESET-SELECTOR-p/adg-frs-ambi.htm. My experience is that they ship within a couple days of placing an order. I don't trust Performance Triggers, but others may have different experiences. Fingers crossed yours arrives soon and without issue. |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: MAS Defense just got a restock of the ambi: https://www.masdefense.com/ATRIUS-AMBI-FORCED-RESET-SELECTOR-p/adg-frs-ambi.htm. My experience is that they ship within a couple days of placing an order. I don't trust Performance Triggers, but others may have different experiences. Fingers crossed yours arrives soon and without issue. Well fuck me. A little late now as the order has been placed. I even tried looking them up online and did not see anything bad about them right away, but I did not search here. If they fuck me over I will do a charge back. I found a place called combat armory, that seemed as though they had them in stock, but did not have anything verifying it, where PT said in bold print on the product page they had them in stock. That MAS defense did not some up in my searches for some reason. Guess I will find out if PT fucks me or not. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Well fuck me. A little late now as the order has been placed. I even tried looking them up online and did not see anything bad about them right away, but I did not search here. If they fuck me over I will do a charge back. I found a place called combat armory, that seemed as though they had them in stock, but did not have anything verifying it, where PT said in bold print on the product page they had them in stock. That MAS defense did not some up in my searches for some reason. Guess I will find out if PT fucks me or not. If Combat Armory doesnt have stuff in stock you can't buy it. They've been alright to buy from, just slow to ship a couple of the times I've ordered from them. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Well fuck me. A little late now as the order has been placed. I even tried looking them up online and did not see anything bad about them right away, but I did not search here. If they fuck me over I will do a charge back. I found a place called combat armory, that seemed as though they had them in stock, but did not have anything verifying it, where PT said in bold print on the product page they had them in stock. That MAS defense did not some up in my searches for some reason. Guess I will find out if PT fucks me or not. I wouldn't worry too much about it. I haven't seen that graphic before. My guess is they added it to signal that they really do have them in stock due to prior confusion. I wouldn't be surprised if yours ships within days. Hey, at least you didn't order a single-sided one from MAS, only to discover the ambis got restocked the day after yours shipped.
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: I wouldn't worry too much about it. I haven't seen that graphic before. My guess is they added it to signal that they really do have them in stock due to prior confusion. I wouldn't be surprised if yours ships within days. Hey, at least you didn't order a single-sided one from MAS, only to discover the ambis got restocked the day after yours shipped. Heck, if I wanted a right hand only one, my local gun store has them setting on the shelf. But I gotta have ambi. And since they no longer offer the ambi upgrade kit, I am stuck buying the ambi model. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Heck, if I wanted a right hand only one, my local gun store has them setting on the shelf. But I gotta have ambi. And since they no longer offer the ambi upgrade kit, I am stuck buying the ambi model. I am also frustrated by the rug-yank on the upgrade kit. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Heck, if I wanted a right hand only one, my local gun store has them setting on the shelf. But I gotta have ambi. And since they no longer offer the ambi upgrade kit, I am stuck buying the ambi model. Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: I wouldn't worry too much about it. I haven't seen that graphic before. My guess is they added it to signal that they really do have them in stock due to prior confusion. I wouldn't be surprised if yours ships within days. Hey, at least you didn't order a single-sided one from MAS, only to discover the ambis got restocked the day after yours shipped. Heck, if I wanted a right hand only one, my local gun store has them setting on the shelf. But I gotta have ambi. And since they no longer offer the ambi upgrade kit, I am stuck buying the ambi model. I think I recall you had an ARC-Fire, but that it didn't work. AS Designs stated in their other thread that Bore Buddy is about to certify the ARC-Fire to work with 22, like they did with the Atrius/Rave140 combo. What didn't work with yours? |
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Originally Posted By ELittlefield: I think I recall you had an ARC-Fire, but that it didn't work. AS Designs stated in their other thread that Bore Buddy is about to certify the ARC-Fire to work with 22, like they did with the Atrius/Rave140 combo. What didn't work with yours? He needed to adjust the trip, I think. |
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I can see where you're coming from, 'cause I know where you've been and I can see where you're going 'cause I can see the direction you're headed in. I just don't know where the hell you're at right now.
I can see where you're coming from, 'cause I know where you've been and I can see where you're going 'cause I can see the direction you're headed in. I just don't know where the hell you're at right now.
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Originally Posted By ARKAR: He needed to adjust the trip, I think. Originally Posted By ARKAR: Originally Posted By ELittlefield: I think I recall you had an ARC-Fire, but that it didn't work. AS Designs stated in their other thread that Bore Buddy is about to certify the ARC-Fire to work with 22, like they did with the Atrius/Rave140 combo. What didn't work with yours? He needed to adjust the trip, I think. Yea, post number 5 on page 4 of this thread. Ran fine in semi auto, no issues at all. Forced reset worked fine bench testing, but live fire it would only fire 1 round and then a dead trigger. I did get a couple 4-5 round bursts. It is quite possible the SS trip needs adjusting. I have only had the adjustable BB trip for just a short while, as I had been using a printed one from GMR with almost no success. I have only tested the BB trip as it came, with the SS currently in the gun, and then with the ARC-fire in a different lower. I did not have enough time to try adjusting it when I tested it with the ARC. After the holidays, and probably closer to the first of the year I am hoping to have time to finally spend some quality time with it and see if I can adjust it to see what happens. I will probably end up waiting till my atrius shows up, and try adjusting it to that. If I can just get it working with 1 lower and trigger/frt combo, then I am good. I do not care about being able to swap the upper to other lowers. I pretty much built this lower to be a dedicated 22lr anyways. |
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I got the Rave and (single sided) Atrius installed and was able to get 4-5 rds of subs before a dead hammer (which is more than what I was getting with other configurations). Thinking I was done with SS levers and 22LR forever, I (stupidly) sold my BB adjustable trip and am waiting for a new one to arrive. In the mean time, I have access to several trip sleds from this source with varying timing of the trip cavity in relationship to the rest of the sled (anywhere from +0.0 mm to +3.0 mm in 0.5 mm increments):  With the original trip, I get hammer drop at almost 1/4" from full bolt close.  I can get that down to 3/16" with the +3.0 mm delayed sled. However, when I do, reset of the hammer with the charging handle in FRT mode has a huge hump to overcome when engaging the forced reset. That's not there in semi or with the +0.0 mm sled. I'm not sure where the interference is, but I'm also at a loss to get this thing timed right, since it very much appears that I need to delay hammer fall.  Also, I noticed that with the Atrius/Rave combo, one can move the selector to safe with the hammer down and then operate the charging handle. Is that normal? |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: I got the Rave and (single sided) Atrius installed and was able to get 4-5 rds of subs before a dead hammer (which is more than what I was getting with other configurations). Thinking I was done with SS levers and 22LR forever, I (stupidly) sold my BB adjustable trip and am waiting for a new one to arrive. In the mean time, I have access to several trip sleds from this source with varying timing of the trip cavity in relationship to the rest of the sled (anywhere from +0.0 mm to +3.0 mm in 0.5 mm increments): https://i.ibb.co/LDdGr3y0/Screenshot-from-2025-12-20-16-30-41.png With the original trip, I get hammer drop at almost 1/4" from full bolt close. I can get that down to 3/16" with the +3.0 mm delayed sled. However, when I do, reset of the hammer with the charging handle in FRT mode has a huge hump to overcome when engaging the forced reset. That's not there in semi or with the +0.0 mm sled. I'm not sure where the interference is, but I'm also at a loss to get this thing timed right, since it very much appears that I need to delay hammer fall. Also, I noticed that with the Atrius/Rave combo, one can move the selector to safe with the hammer down and then operate the charging handle. Is that normal? You definitely need to retard the hammer dropping. The closer you can get it to not being discernible, the better. I have mine behaving on the bench. I need to find another place to shoot. The tolerances of the various parts caused me to cut up a PBR can to make adjustment shims. Got it timed so you can’t tell the hammer fell when the bolt goes home. I’m documenting it in this thread or another…I’ll add to it once I get a place to blast.
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don:... The tolerances of the various parts caused me to cut up a PBR can to make adjustment shims. Got it timed so you can’t tell the hammer fell when the bolt goes home. ... I don't think the Atrius can be timed. The only other place I can think to introduce a return delay is with the trip sled. I'm still waiting for my new BB adjustable, but I don't think that one can be used to delay hammer release, only to advance it. Here's what I'm going to try next (note the size of the gap between the reset and the release trips):  @ELittlefield, I'm assuming you didn't face a similar issue? I tried three different lowers all with similar results. I'm curious why/how there's so much consistency in my experience, but so much variation when compared to others. I wonder if it has something to with bolt/carrier geometry. |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: I don't think the Atrius can be timed. The only other place I can think to introduce a return delay is with the trip sled. I'm still waiting for my new BB adjustable, but I don't think that one can be used to delay hammer release, only to advance it. Here's what I'm going to try next (note the size of the gap between the reset and the release trips): https://i.ibb.co/nsK7x7Wn/Screenshot-from-2025-12-20-21-22-49.png @ELittlefield, I'm assuming you didn't face a similar issue? I tried three different lowers all with similar results. I'm curious why/how there's so much consistency in my experience, but so much variation when compared to others. I wonder if it has something to with bolt/carrier geometry. Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: Originally Posted By Dakota_Don:... The tolerances of the various parts caused me to cut up a PBR can to make adjustment shims. Got it timed so you can’t tell the hammer fell when the bolt goes home. ... I don't think the Atrius can be timed. The only other place I can think to introduce a return delay is with the trip sled. I'm still waiting for my new BB adjustable, but I don't think that one can be used to delay hammer release, only to advance it. Here's what I'm going to try next (note the size of the gap between the reset and the release trips): https://i.ibb.co/nsK7x7Wn/Screenshot-from-2025-12-20-21-22-49.png @ELittlefield, I'm assuming you didn't face a similar issue? I tried three different lowers all with similar results. I'm curious why/how there's so much consistency in my experience, but so much variation when compared to others. I wonder if it has something to with bolt/carrier geometry. I use the Bore Buddy trip with the adjustment run all the way in. Next, I'm going to see if I can get the printed Grey Market trip working, for a cheaper option to start making additional uppers. |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: I don't think the Atrius can be timed. The only other place I can think to introduce a return delay is with the trip sled. I'm still waiting for my new BB adjustable, but I don't think that one can be used to delay hammer release, only to advance it. Here's what I'm going to try next (note the size of the gap between the reset and the release trips): https://i.ibb.co/nsK7x7Wn/Screenshot-from-2025-12-20-21-22-49.png @ELittlefield, I'm assuming you didn't face a similar issue? I tried three different lowers all with similar results. I'm curious why/how there's so much consistency in my experience, but so much variation when compared to others. I wonder if it has something to with bolt/carrier geometry. Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: Originally Posted By Dakota_Don:... The tolerances of the various parts caused me to cut up a PBR can to make adjustment shims. Got it timed so you can’t tell the hammer fell when the bolt goes home. ... I don't think the Atrius can be timed. The only other place I can think to introduce a return delay is with the trip sled. I'm still waiting for my new BB adjustable, but I don't think that one can be used to delay hammer release, only to advance it. Here's what I'm going to try next (note the size of the gap between the reset and the release trips): https://i.ibb.co/nsK7x7Wn/Screenshot-from-2025-12-20-21-22-49.png @ELittlefield, I'm assuming you didn't face a similar issue? I tried three different lowers all with similar results. I'm curious why/how there's so much consistency in my experience, but so much variation when compared to others. I wonder if it has something to with bolt/carrier geometry. So none of the above modifications worked to resolve my issue, but I think I figured out what's going on, at least with my function checks. Here's what I'm seeing:
At about 1/4" from bolt close, I can hear the Atrius snap forward without any additional movement of the charging handle. In other words, the lever goes from being pushed by the rear wall of the trip pocket to snapping forward to ride on the front wall of the trip pocket, beyond the hammer re-release point. I have only observed this snapping-forward behavior with the Rave. When I put the Atrius in one of my 556 rigs (completely different rifle) with a milspec FCG, I get hammer drop just before the locking lugs touch the barrel, which feels a bit soon to me? I'm going to wait until by BB trip sled shows up, but if that doesn't work and a Partisan doesn't work, I'm throwing in the towel. I can't figure out how the heck my experience differs so wildly from others here. |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: So none of the above modifications worked to resolve my issue, but I think I figured out what's going on, at least with my function checks. Here's what I'm seeing:
At about 1/4" from bolt close, I can hear the Atrius snap forward without any additional movement of the charging handle. In other words, the lever goes from being pushed by the rear wall of the trip pocket to snapping forward to ride on the front wall of the trip pocket, beyond the hammer re-release point. I have only observed this snapping-forward behavior with the Rave. When I put the Atrius in one of my 556 rigs (completely different rifle) with a milspec FCG, I get hammer drop just before the locking lugs touch the barrel, which feels a bit soon to me? I'm going to wait until by BB trip sled shows up, but if that doesn't work and a Partisan doesn't work, I'm throwing in the towel. I can't figure out how the heck my experience differs so wildly from others here. I think I had the exact same problem. You need a trip (Bore Buddy) that can adjust the advancement of the lever when the bolt is opening. I thought my issue was timing when the bolt was closing. It wasn’t. The problem was that the cycle distance of the .22LR bolt wasn’t enough to push the lever back as far as it needed. After I figured that out and adjusted it, mine ran fine. Before I figured that out, mine would fire a burst of a few rounds and then have a hammer forward with a round in the chamber. |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: So none of the above modifications worked to resolve my issue, but I think I figured out what's going on, at least with my function checks. Here's what I'm seeing:
At about 1/4" from bolt close, I can hear the Atrius snap forward without any additional movement of the charging handle. In other words, the lever goes from being pushed by the rear wall of the trip pocket to snapping forward to ride on the front wall of the trip pocket, beyond the hammer re-release point. I have only observed this snapping-forward behavior with the Rave. When I put the Atrius in one of my 556 rigs (completely different rifle) with a milspec FCG, I get hammer drop just before the locking lugs touch the barrel, which feels a bit soon to me? I'm going to wait until by BB trip sled shows up, but if that doesn't work and a Partisan doesn't work, I'm throwing in the towel. I can't figure out how the heck my experience differs so wildly from others here. Replace step 2 - Maintain light rearward pressure on the trigger to make sure it’s getting reset. No reset will be followed by hammer follow. |
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: Replace step 2 - Maintain light rearward pressure on the trigger to make sure it’s getting reset. No reset will be followed by hammer follow. Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: So none of the above modifications worked to resolve my issue, but I think I figured out what's going on, at least with my function checks. Here's what I'm seeing:
At about 1/4" from bolt close, I can hear the Atrius snap forward without any additional movement of the charging handle. In other words, the lever goes from being pushed by the rear wall of the trip pocket to snapping forward to ride on the front wall of the trip pocket, beyond the hammer re-release point. I have only observed this snapping-forward behavior with the Rave. When I put the Atrius in one of my 556 rigs (completely different rifle) with a milspec FCG, I get hammer drop just before the locking lugs touch the barrel, which feels a bit soon to me? I'm going to wait until by BB trip sled shows up, but if that doesn't work and a Partisan doesn't work, I'm throwing in the towel. I can't figure out how the heck my experience differs so wildly from others here. Replace step 2 - Maintain light rearward pressure on the trigger to make sure it’s getting reset. No reset will be followed by hammer follow. Yes, I know. That wasn't my point. My reset is consistent. My point was that the Atrius/Rave 140 combo has the Atrius snapping forward at a certain point, like it's spring loaded. This happens whether there's pressure on the trigger or not. |
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Originally Posted By ARKAR: I think I had the exact same problem. You need a trip (Bore Buddy) that can adjust the advancement of the lever when the bolt is opening. I thought my issue was timing when the bolt was closing. It wasn’t. The problem was that the cycle distance of the .22LR bolt wasn’t enough to push the lever back as far as it needed. After I figured that out and adjusted it, mine ran fine. Before I figured that out, mine would fire a burst of a few rounds and then have a hammer forward with a round in the chamber. I received my BB SS trip sled today. I adjusted the screw out as far as I could before I felt any increased resistance from the hammer resetting when operating the charging handle. Any farther, and the Atrius starts to force trigger reset before the hammer is fully captured by the disconnect. From there, the further out you go, the more interference between the two you have to fight to overcome with the charging handle. So I got it right up to that point, but no further. No joy. I still got 1-2 rds before a stoppage with a live round in the chamber, dead trigger, and light primer strike. This happens with both CCI 40 gr segmented hollow point subs and CCI 40 gr mini-mags.I replaced my 6 lb recoil spring with a 4 lb. Same result.  I replaced my heavy (red) firing pin spring with a light (green) one. Same result. I replaced my firing pin, in case the one I had was cracked, worn, or malformed. Same result.  To recap, I have a 7" BB "Hand Tuned" Tucked Upper with a BoreBuddy Bolt Group with a 22LR AR22 SuperStrike Firing Pin with a light spring, power extractor, and gen 2 collar. I have a AR22 Deluxe Adjustable Weight Set and am using the steel carrier with two small steel weights and two large aluminum weights, no bolt buffer. I have zero bolt bounce with all ammo I've tested (verified using a GoPro set at the highest frame rate). I'm using a Spike's Tactical lower with a Rave 140, an Atrius Super Selector, and a 22AR Folding Stock Adapter. I'm using Kriss mags with upgraded springs. So far, I'm in almost $1,300 and probably two dozen hours, with no improvement to FRT functioning, which is the only reason bought the damned thing. I've read every BB FRT/SS guide and watched every video. I'm very close to boxing it back up and sending it to BB to let them @#$% with it for awhile. If I ever get access to a Partisan, I might try making that work, but I'm now officially at the end of my rope trying to get a SS-style lever based FRT to work in an AR-22 platform. |
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“using the steel carrier with two small steel weights and two large aluminum weights” That seems a little excesssive for a 7” barreled upper. My 20” upper is tuned with only the stainless body and no weights at all. Not to say that yours is tuned incorrectly but try using a lighter weight kit setup and see how that goes. https://borebuddy.com/guide/how-to-set-up-and-tune-the-weight-kit/ |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: I received my BB SS trip sled today. I adjusted the screw out as far as I could before I felt any increased resistance from the hammer resetting when operating the charging handle. Any farther, and the Atrius starts to force trigger reset before the hammer is fully captured by the disconnect. From there, the further out you go, the more interference between the two you have to fight to overcome with the charging handle. So I got it right up to that point, but no further. No joy. I still got 1-2 rds before a stoppage with a live round in the chamber, dead trigger, and light primer strike. This happens with both CCI 40 gr segmented hollow point subs and CCI 40 gr mini-mags.I replaced my 6 lb recoil spring with a 4 lb. Same result. I replaced my heavy (red) firing pin spring with a light (green) one. Same result. I replaced my firing pin, in case the one I had was cracked, worn, or malformed. Same result. To recap, I have a 7" BB "Hand Tuned" Tucked Upper with a BoreBuddy Bolt Group with a 22LR AR22 SuperStrike Firing Pin with a light spring, power extractor, and gen 2 collar. I have a AR22 Deluxe Adjustable Weight Set and am using the steel carrier with two small steel weights and two large aluminum weights, no bolt buffer. I have zero bolt bounce with all ammo I've tested (verified using a GoPro set at the highest frame rate). I'm using a Spike's Tactical lower with a Rave 140, an Atrius Super Selector, and a 22AR Folding Stock Adapter. I'm using Kriss mags with upgraded springs. So far, I'm in almost $1,300 and probably two dozen hours, with no improvement to FRT functioning, which is the only reason bought the damned thing. I've read every BB FRT/SS guide and watched every video. I'm very close to boxing it back up and sending it to BB to let them @#$% with it for awhile. If I ever get access to a Partisan, I might try making that work, but I'm now officially at the end of my rope trying to get a SS-style lever based FRT to work in an AR-22 platform. Man that sucks. I totally feel your pain with the time, frustration and money. I am also really discouraged that your atrius and rave 140 is not working, as I have my rave 140 but still waiting on my atrius to arrive. That was going to be my last attempt to get mine running, as it was "certified" to work by BB. I fear if you try the partisan it will not do any better. I never had any luck trying to get my RB working, and it is very similar to the partisan. |
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Originally Posted By lugnutwrench2: Yes, I know. That wasn't my point. My reset is consistent. My point was that the Atrius/Rave 140 combo has the Atrius snapping forward at a certain point, like it's spring loaded. This happens whether there's pressure on the trigger or not. I’ll just STFU and let you work it out.
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: No dice. I’m going to try some more shim and see about polishing the contact surface on the trigger. It’s not quite releasing the trigger in forced reset…really close though. Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: I started by using printed parts for the SS, but the failed before firing it. Tested the semiauto functionality last weekend and it was good to go. Got the metal trip plate and it didn’t work with a printed lever. With a metal lever it passes the bench test. Gonna try to get out tomorrow and live fire it. Anderson lower. RTB upper, conversion, barrel and plastic CH. Supersafetyshop metal SS and aluminum trip sled. The rest is parts bin parts. I modded the trigger and detent and polished the SS drum and trip sled. No AB weight, but I’ll take the one out of the ‘16 conversion just in case. https://i.postimg.cc/PqzHzStB/IMG_3536.jpg Preliminary testing in sub-zero weather this morning. The printed ABW weight was a no-go. Replaced it with the CMMG ABW from the ‘16 and managed some bursts with mini-mags, Federal bulk and Thunderbolts. As the pistol got colder, it didn’t work. I’m going to try polishing the moving parts a little more to reduce the friction. I will also wait until it’s north of single digit temps. It ran with and without the silencer as well. This is looking promising despite the 4.5” barrel and metal SS parts that are not recommended. More to come… ETA: The TX22 , which has been flawless, was also choking in the cold. I’m quoting my previous posts for continuity. Polished the drum and face of the stainless hammer. If you peek down past the hammer you can see a beer can shim that I used to tighten up the trip to time it better. I also polished the tip of the selector detent. https://i.postimg.cc/0yJh9ZN7/IMG-3547.jpg Upon reassembly, the drum picked up a bunch of resistance that wasn’t there before the grip and detent spring were replaced. I cut 1/8” off the detent spring and now it’s glass smooth with the drum rotation. The cross bolt is still secure in each position. Something y’all may want to consider with the Hoffman configuration. Everything checks perfect on the bench. I’ll try it again this weekend for live fire function. No dice. I’m going to try some more shim and see about polishing the contact surface on the trigger. It’s not quite releasing the trigger in forced reset…really close though. Despite the lack of a good shooting area for testing, I was able to get some trigger time. I was getting some marginal hang up on the trigger reset with the bolt coming back. I polished the rear of the trigger a little more and smoothed it out. Tested with Federal bulk, CCI blaser & mini mags, and some Aguila I inherited. Nothing. I replaced the recoil spring with a BB yellow and started getting short bursts only with Aguila. I went ahead and added the can and grabbed some Thunderbolt and Golden bullets. The Agaila started being crappy with the can, BUT it’s doing very well with the golden bullets through the can. I was loading five to seven and it’s running great. Go figure. Aside from the polishing and the can, the only change was the light recoil spring. It wasn’t running with the goldens previously, even in semi. It doesn’t seem to care for the mini mags and cheap shit at all. I quoted all of my previous posts to keep track of the ingredients. I’ll run it some more this weekend to see what happens, with and without the can. As I suspected, friction reduction and timing are making the difference in reliability.
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Who here is using a FRT with a 22LR. What is your setup? (Page 4 of 11)
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