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Posted: 6/1/2024 6:57:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bruh44][Edited]
| When I got into ARs the best barrels were cold hammer forged and chrome lined. I’m sure CHF is still the best but it seems most companies have gone away from chrome lining. I understand it can cause accuracy issues. I also am aware it can displace heat better. But it seems most manufacturers are doing some form of Nitrite salt bath. So what are the best standard AR barrels out there and why? |
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No expert, but nitride has come a long way vs. CL. Anything I care about for accuracy and longevity gets CHF, CL which for me is Daniel Defense, either factory uppers or barrels. I have a couple of Criterion that are CL but I don't think are CHF. My beaters have nitride barrels. They probably work well enough though. |
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Originally Posted By jd2395: No expert, but nitride has come a long way vs. CL. Anything I care about for accuracy and longevity gets CHF, CL which for me is Daniel Defense, either factory uppers or barrels. I have a couple of Criterion that are CL but I don't think are CHF. My beaters have nitride barrels. They probably work well enough though. This pretty much. Very good barrels can be had that are nitride, provided they are a high quality barrel prior to being treated...nitride treatment doesn't make a bad barrel good, just a more corrosion resistant bad barrel. My first choice is a C/L Spike's Tactical Optimal Profile CHF, made by FN. For me its the best combo of profile, weight, accuracy, and durability. |
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CHF/CL is still pretty much the standard for hard use barrels. Nitride, IMO, seems to be mostly relegated to cheaper barrels, simply because it’s a cheaper process. Now, that’s not to say there aren’t any good nitrided barrels. DD, Centurion Arms, Spike’s, etc are all very good. I prefer Centurion due to the tabbed gas block and reasonable gas port sizes. |
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Originally Posted By WrenchGuy: My first choice is a C/L Spike's Tactical Optimal Profile CHF, made by FN. For me its the best combo of profile, weight, accuracy, and durability. +1, I have several, they're great barrels. |
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If you're after longevity first, and accuracy second, go with chrome-lined. If you want accuracy, but it doesn't need to be match-winning, go with QPQ, or nitride, or any of the half-dozen names it goes by. If you want match winning capability, stainless steel is the answer. Green Mountain makes good, chrome-lined barrels. Just about any body makes QPQ, or nitrided barrels. For the SS, there is any myriad of makers, i e. Wilson Arms, Criterion, White Oak Armory, Compass Lake come to mind. What is the purpose of your rifle? Plinking/range toy? Self defense? EIC and President's 100? XTC? What its purpose is will go a l-o-n-g way toward helping you pick a barrel. Jon |
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What does “best” mean? Most resistant to erosion under high-rate-of-fire? Most corrosion-resistant? Most accurate? If you gave a CHF chrome-lined barrel to a sniper they’d say it’s the worst. If you have a 1/2moa single-point cut-rifled Krieger to a machine gunner he’d say it was the worst. Switch them and they’d both say they were the best. |
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Originally Posted By Musketjon: If you're after longevity first, and accuracy second, go with chrome-lined. If you want accuracy, but it doesn't need to be match-winning, go with QPQ, or nitride, or any of the half-dozen names it goes by. If you want match winning capability, stainless steel is the answer. Green Mountain makes good, chrome-lined barrels.  Far right in that picture is a GM barrel made for Colt that has NO chrome lining. Picture is a group of the 'more accurate' barrels I currently have and GM is definitely in that group for me.  GM makes very good quality barrels...
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A lot of good replies here so far, really though it depends on your use case and requirements as to what would be the "best" in you particular situation. I favor the FN models posted above, though the GM barrels I've used have be stellar also...but my use is general range, classes, plinking, etc. I also have a couple cheaper QPQ barrels that came as part of complete uppers, which will be used as is for cheap steel ammo. For a more precision application I would recommend a high quality stainless model, some of which can be had with a nitride or QPQ finish. Get what suits your application, budget, and skill level. |
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| Criterion , Krieger , Douglas. White Oak Armament. In any order. There are 1-3 others. Criterion offers match chrome liner barrels as well. |
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| "Best" at what? Unless you specify what you are looking for it's just random name dropping in an uninformed quest for ultimateness which leads nowhere. |
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| I have barrels from several different manufacturers in several different lengths and configurations. Some in factory guns a some home builds. All are pretty damn accurate with their favorite ammo! BCM CHF, Noveske CHF and a couple Noveske SS barrels. Rainier Arms Mountain Series CHF, DD CHF, Colt CHF, and WOA SS. My next build I’ll be using a Criterion CORE CHF IN 13.9”. I’m know there are more accurate barrels out there but I prefer to balance accuracy, function, and durability so these are my choices for the time being. |
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I've had excellent luck with a larue stealth barrel. Like stated above it's definitely overgassed but not so much that a sprinco blue spring and h2 buffer didn't bring it right back to 330-4 oclock ejection and smooth as butter recoil impulse. Also have had excellent luck with WOA spr line of barrels. |
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Best for what? Accuracy. A Barlien or Kreiger blank from Compass Lake with the CLE chamber was the go to. White Oak can do those so it would be a great option. Shilen is another great blank. CLE chamber with any of those three. I listed them in the order I would pick, but one could argue any order of choice. For longevity, rapid fire with decent accuracy. A FN CHF would be my pick. They are generally accurate for what they are, but they are tough. It’s my Zombie Apocalypse choice. There are a ton of good barrels out there . Larue. Geissele, Daniel Defense, Patriot Valley, Criterion, Rainer Arms Match. I know I am probably forgetting some good ones. For budget I had a really good experience with a couple of Rainer Arms Select SS. I believe it was the select. I’m pretty certain they were rebranded black hole arms. The two I had are probably 12 to 15 years old, but they were extremely accurate with 77OTM,s. |
"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."
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Originally Posted By jd2395: . . . . but nitride has come a long way vs. CL. The metallurgical properties of nitrogen infused steel has not changed since the process was first discovered in 1906. And, the ability to control the thickness of the nitride layer was been pretty much perfected about a decade after the process was developed. It has not gotten any "better" or "cheaper" in the last 100 years. What it has, is it has gotten more popular, and more places can do it at competitive prices. The reason chromium plating is better at preventing erosion over nitriding is that nitriding IS the steel, while chromium plating is a layer of a different material on top of the steel. The flame temperature of all propellants is around 3,500° - 4,000° F, the melting point of steel is around 2,500° to 2,800° F depending on the alloy, Nitriding does not change this. Chromium melts at 3,500° F. It also insulates, to some degree, the steel from the heat. |
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Originally Posted By lysanderxiii: The metallurgical properties of nitrogen infused steel has not changed since the process was first discovered in 1906. And, the ability to control the thickness of the nitride layer was been pretty much perfected about a decade after the process was developed. It has not gotten any "better" or "cheaper" in the last 100 years. What it has, is it has gotten more popular, and more places can do it at competitive prices. The reason chromium plating is better at preventing erosion over nitriding is that nitriding IS the steel, while chromium plating is a layer of a different material on top of the steel. The flame temperature of all propellants is around 3,500° - 4,000° F, the melting point of steel is around 2,500° to 2,800° F depending on the alloy, Nitriding does not change this. Chromium melts at 3,500° F. It also insulates, to some degree, the steel from the heat. Thank you so much for sharing this information, as a lot of people seem to think that a nitrided barrel will be as durable, if not more so, than a chrome lined barrel. When nitriding started being discussed here “back in the day” it was being said that this nitriding would make for easier barrel maintenance/cleaning, improve barrel accuracy due to not having uneven chrome plating and could possibly lead to a more durable barrel. |
Change is the only constant. - Heractilus
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Originally Posted By urbankaos04: Thank you so much for sharing this information, as a lot of people seem to think that a nitrided barrel will be as durable, if not more so, than a chrome lined barrel. When nitriding started being discussed here “back in the day” it was being said that this nitriding would make for easier barrel maintenance/cleaning, improve barrel accuracy due to not having uneven chrome plating and could possibly lead to a more durable barrel. Ahh, the power of good advertising . . . . "Back in the day" was was about 30 years after the Army thoroughly tested nitriding versus chromium plating and found while it does make the bore easier to clean, it does not make a barrel that will last any longer than a bare steel barrel. |
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Originally Posted By lysanderxiii: It also insulates, to some degree, the steel from the heat. The coefficient of thermal conductivity of chromium is twice that of steel. It in NO WAY insulates the steel. In fact, it transfers heat away from the bore of the barrel and into the steel FASTER than if it were barrel solid steel. So, like, exactly the opposite of insulation. |
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I would just add that NSWC chose Lilja for their M4 Navy SEAL "Recce" profile 17" barrel. It is 416R stainless. No, it will not last as long as chrome lined steel under rapid or sustained fire use. But, it is benchrest grade, 1:8 twist, Wylde chamber, air gauged and hand lapped. Lilja makes only benchrest quality barrels. Lilja still makes this barrel and a 15.1" version for suppressor mounting. Unless you intend to do a lot of sustained fire mag dumps, good match grade (or even benchrest grade) AR pattern barrels are out there. With match grade ammo these barrels will be more accurate (higher precision) than 99.9% of us. |
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Originally Posted By gunner-g: I have barrels from several different manufacturers in several different lengths and configurations. Some in factory guns a some home builds. All are pretty damn accurate with their favorite ammo! BCM CHF, Noveske CHF and a couple Noveske SS barrels. Rainier Arms Mountain Series CHF, DD CHF, Colt CHF, and WOA SS. My next build I’ll be using a Criterion CORE CHF IN 13.9”. I’m know there are more accurate barrels out there but I prefer to balance accuracy, function, and durability so these are my choices for the time being. You and I have a similar collection of great barrels. I would add the Spikes CHF to the list, I am still amazed at how tight this barrel groups with good ammo. My old John-era Noveske SS barrels still hold the title for me, but my 12.5 is starting to open up now that it has a higher round count on it 
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16 inches be damned...
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Originally Posted By Alaska511: You and I have a similar collection of great barrels. I would add the Spikes CHF to the list, I am still amazed at how tight this barrel groups with good ammo. My old John-era Noveske SS barrels still hold the title for me, but my 12.5 is starting to open up now that it has a higher round count on it Originally Posted By Alaska511: Originally Posted By gunner-g: I have barrels from several different manufacturers in several different lengths and configurations. Some in factory guns a some home builds. All are pretty damn accurate with their favorite ammo! BCM CHF, Noveske CHF and a couple Noveske SS barrels. Rainier Arms Mountain Series CHF, DD CHF, Colt CHF, and WOA SS. My next build I’ll be using a Criterion CORE CHF IN 13.9”. I’m know there are more accurate barrels out there but I prefer to balance accuracy, function, and durability so these are my choices for the time being. You and I have a similar collection of great barrels. I would add the Spikes CHF to the list, I am still amazed at how tight this barrel groups with good ammo. My old John-era Noveske SS barrels still hold the title for me, but my 12.5 is starting to open up now that it has a higher round count on it So many good barrels out there the cheap Rainer selects have been great Not as good as the Barlien made Compass Lake but for the price they are worth it. Sample of 3 |
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Lots of brands naming and no showing of your groups in this thread.  Accuracy and stiffness are more correlated than shooters realize. Stiffer barrels are thicker / shorter. I believe your barrel profile is one of the most important factors in accuracy. More so than most people realize. Barrel stiffness and who makes the bore are more important than generalizing that "chrome lined barrels aren't as accurate as SS or Nitride." If I am going for accuracy a 16 inch HBAR profile would be high on my list of barrels to choose from a reputable manufacturer known for accuracy to ensure the bore and rifling are cut well and free of chatter or defects. However the rule of thumb that chrome lined barrels are less accurate was turned on its head by the most accurate barrel I ever shot and heavily documented being a chrome lined barrel from criterion wrapped in a stiffening sleeve from the now defunct straight jacket barrel systems. |
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