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Vertical grips related. Who really don't care for them ? (Page 2 of 2)
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I didn’t like them on a full length rifle, but I do on the really short ppc’s . Attached File |
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"But the new Admin. is a Master in IDPA"
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"But the new Admin. is a Master in IDPA"
"MASTER in IDPA..."
"is like C Class in IPSC!"
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I use to use them as a handstop Then I really learned all the negatives and took them off. As your skill increases you learn that your input into the gun directly impacts your ability to be fast and accurate The worst negative to VFGs and handstops is they amplify your input. Listen to guys like Pranka, Banas, Cinco, etc… dudes that are squeezing every ounce of performance out of the rifle |
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Tried a couple but never took a liking top them. Took 'em off, no idea where they are now. I was issued a M3A1 yearsn ago. I guess you could say it had a vertical foregrip. Wouldn't have felt right any other way. |
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Personal pronouns are; Bro/Dude
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
You don't have to have your hand "wed" to it. It's not that hard to just like...not use it if your shooting position doesn't make it useful. Now I'm not saying you should use use, I just find that logic a bit odd. |
Point shooting will give you monkeypox. - John_Wayne777
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns.
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns.
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Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: If you're not using one, why have one? Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: You don't have to have your hand "wed" to it. It's not that hard to just like...not use it if your shooting position doesn't make it useful. Now I'm not saying you should use use, I just find that logic a bit odd. If you're not using one, why have one? I thought the "all the time" was implied. The full context is you said your hand is "wed" to it. I just pointed out that it's not wed to it...see the part where I said "if your shooting position doesn't make it useful". I don't really care either way, handstop, stubby, full size VFG, or slick won't appreciably affect my shooting. I just find the VERY strong feelings about them either way sort of funny. |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
If you don't use it then don't have one. My point is that just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it all the time. I thought the "all the time" was implied. The full context is you said your hand is "wed" to it. I just pointed out that it's not wed to it...see the part where I said "if your shooting position doesn't make it useful". I don't really care either way, handstop, stubby, full size VFG, or slick won't appreciably affect my shooting. I just find the VERY strong feelings about them either way sort of funny. |
Point shooting will give you monkeypox. - John_Wayne777
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns.
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns.
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Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about them beyond the fact that they're worthless at best and a negative at worst. Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: If you don't use it then don't have one. My point is that just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it all the time. I thought the "all the time" was implied. The full context is you said your hand is "wed" to it. I just pointed out that it's not wed to it...see the part where I said "if your shooting position doesn't make it useful". I don't really care either way, handstop, stubby, full size VFG, or slick won't appreciably affect my shooting. I just find the VERY strong feelings about them either way sort of funny. I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about them beyond the fact that they're worthless at best and a negative at worst. If a VFG or handstop negatively affects one's shooting so much, I might argue that it's the shooter. |
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I have TD stubbies on all my main go-to guns. I don't really give a fuck what the latest consensus is -- this week it's "Why a VFG will get you killed!" next week it will be, "Why you'll die if you don't have a VFG!" Use what works for you. I find they provide a far more comfortable wrist angle for a C-clamp grip and are simply useful in general. I can grab a rifle and instantly know where my controls are, regardless of darkness or being fully awake; I never have to worry I'll accidentally trigger a pressure switch. I like having a repeatable index point that requires no thought under stress. If I need to shoot in an awkward or odd position, I grip as necessary. |
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Originally Posted By 11boomboom: I took them all off. Then I got FRTs and now they're all back on.  Yeah, this. I love them for keeping my hand further from some VERY hot barrels. I don't have them on all my guns, but the ones I do, I enjoy having them. |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: I don't either, as I said, I just find the very strong feelings funny. If a VFG or handstop negatively affects one's shooting so much, I might argue that it's the shooter. Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: If you don't use it then don't have one. My point is that just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it all the time. I thought the "all the time" was implied. The full context is you said your hand is "wed" to it. I just pointed out that it's not wed to it...see the part where I said "if your shooting position doesn't make it useful". I don't really care either way, handstop, stubby, full size VFG, or slick won't appreciably affect my shooting. I just find the VERY strong feelings about them either way sort of funny. I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about them beyond the fact that they're worthless at best and a negative at worst. If a VFG or handstop negatively affects one's shooting so much, I might argue that it's the shooter. Folks hating on them and denying the utility of a definitive indexing point for switches, a more neutral wrist angle, and a solid 90 degree surface to pull the gun into your shoulder, are just wild, to me. Sure the top performers can do better without, but holy shit, it's not all about split times and hit factor. Folks have leaned way too hard into the gun gamer mindset and completely forgot the soft factors involved in the situations where you are using a rifle against things that shoot back. |
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I use them more as a hand stop. Thumb over the rail, type grip. If you broom handle them, agreed. You’re wrong. Using them as an index point so that I can consistently place my hand on the rail so that when I need my light, my thumb is in the same consistent spot….well that is very important to me. |
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Originally Posted By Marksman14: I use them more as a hand stop. Thumb over the rail, type grip. If you broom handle them, agreed. You’re wrong. Using them as an index point so that I can consistently place my hand on the rail so that when I need my light, my thumb is in the same consistent spot….well that is very important to me. same here! |
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Use them on the majority of ARs. Ring finger in the 90 so very little hand interfaces with it at all. For grip, it's closer to a handstop and index point. I keep the full size (Magpul) because it is very useful when loading (positive or negative) barricades. I found smaller handstops and definitely angled ones are more prone to slipping. |
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Originally Posted By rb889:Sure the top performers can do better without, but holy shit, it's not all about split times and hit factor. Folks have leaned way too hard into the gun gamer mindset and completely forgot the soft factors involved in the situations where you are using a rifle against things that shoot back. |
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Originally Posted By rb889: Folks hating on them and denying the utility of a definitive indexing point for switches, a more neutral wrist angle, and a solid 90 degree surface to pull the gun into your shoulder, are just wild, to me. Sure the top performers can do better without, but holy shit, it's not all about split times and hit factor. Folks have leaned way too hard into the gun gamer mindset and completely forgot the soft factors involved in the situations where you are using a rifle against things that shoot back. |
Point shooting will give you monkeypox. - John_Wayne777
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns.
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns.
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I've tried my 10.5 with and without, and prefer with, for both something to grab and to drop into my sling to keep the muzzle under control, but I'm not entirely happy with the Magpul VFG on it now. I want to try a BCM slightly angled VFG to see if it takes some stress off my thumb, assuming I can talk my inner Magpul fangirl into it. Not sure how that'll change things with the sling. I wonder if I could put one on my RXM just to annoy the "you can't do that, I'm calling the feds" guys at the range  Because GOA/FPCAF.
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| Stubbys are great for modified c-clamp but I really like them for offhand support while carrying. I find I like them on longer guns and not so much on shorter lighter guns, also prefer a more vertical angled grip for longer guns and a more swept back angle for shorties for supporting one handed with my dominant hand, something I don't even attempt with longer heavier setups. |
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Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: As supplement to sling? Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: Originally Posted By DD1801: 10 to 20 miles? Heck, even after just an hour walking around a VFG is worth it. Correct. |
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Way back about 23ish years ago I couldn't wait when I was handed a bi-fold plastic portfolio containing rail covers and a vertical fore grip marked "Knight's Armament". I was most excited about the vertical fore grip but after some training I found that I really didn't care for it so much, and I was more in love with the idea of having it and even with my belief I wanted to make it work it just didn't work for me on the M4. Previous to this experience I had some experience with angled fore grips in some other platforms and it worked pretty well but again, not so much on the M4. Even now, my AR set ups do not have AFGs or vert grips but I dug through my plastic bin of goodies and repurposed a Knight's grip I still had when I put it on a Kriss Vector when the Form 1 returned on it, and in this application it works great and I find actual benefit. |
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Originally Posted By Make_Mine_Moxie: I never liked vertical grips, but I've grown to like the True North Concepts foregrip. https://media.mwstatic.com/product-images/src/Primary/611/611356.jpg?imwidth=480 That looks like it can double as a barrel nut wrench. |
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Originally Posted By rb889: Folks hating on them and denying the utility of a definitive indexing point for switches, a more neutral wrist angle, and a solid 90 degree surface to pull the gun into your shoulder, are just wild, to me. Sure the top performers can do better without, but holy shit, it's not all about split times and hit factor. Folks have leaned way too hard into the gun gamer mindset and completely forgot the soft factors involved in the situations where you are using a rifle against things that shoot back. Someone give this man a cookie. Great summary of real life.
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Attached File |
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Vertical grips related. Who really don't care for them ? (Page 2 of 2)
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