Ukraine Issues 7.62 x 39 AR-47 Mash Up Rifles - Interesting!

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ukraine Issues 7.62 x 39 AR-47 Mash Up Rifles - Interesting!

Posted: 10/30/2018 8:55:48 AM EDT

Ukraine's new AK / M-16 Issued "Mashup" rifle

Interesting Combo AR with a Free Floated M-LOK AR direct impingment system in 7.62x39 using an AR-47 (Standard AR lower using 7.62x39 specific magazine) configuration...

The Ukrainian Plan is to have a Modern Rifle that overcomes the AKs liablities (ergonomics of the safety, sights, stock fit, optics & accuracy) and still be able to use the huge stock of 7.62x39 ammo the Ukranine has.

A benefit is that this rifle will have have a AR NATO ish manual of arms (they do a lot of cross training - wouldn't be surprised if the Ukranians tried to get into NATO since they are in direct armed conflict with the Russians in Eastern Ukranine & had Russia gobble up & "annex" Crimea). On the "Works with NATO equipment" theme, it provides the option to update later to full NATO compatible 5.56 ammo with a simple change out to 5.56 Bolt, 5.56 Barrel, ejection port door (7.62x39 marked but not a required swap to shoot) & STANAG 5.56 Magazine.

Interesting Read & Rifle!

BIGGER_HAMMER

Posted: 10/30/2018 9:06:06 AM EDT

[#1]

Actually a pretty good idea.

Posted: 10/30/2018 9:12:55 AM EDT

[#2]

Made in the USA, interesting

Posted: 10/30/2018 10:17:34 AM EDT

[#3]

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Made in the USA, interesting

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CA, that's questionable.

Posted: 10/30/2018 11:02:55 AM EDT

[#4]

Ukraine can not join NATO as no states with active territorial disputes may be admitted.

Posted: 10/30/2018 11:50:17 AM EDT

[#5]

Had they went with one with a lower like this, they'd have been able to use their large stocks of AK magazines as well:

Posted: 10/30/2018 12:30:22 PM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:
Had they went with one with a lower like this, they'd have been able to use their large stocks of AK magazines as well:
https://i.imgur.com/JacyrqKh.jpg

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There seem to be more issues with the "AK-15" type rifles (AR rifle design using special lower receiver to accept 7062x39 AK mags & ammo), because they also required a special (non-standard) AR Bolt Carrier in addition to non standard lower and some special receiver parts)

That would basically require a whole new rifle if they wanted to update to 5.56 down the road.

The AR-47 in 7.62x39 to 5.56 would be basic easy level stuff (new 5.56 barrel, new 5.56 bolt, a STANAG 5.56 magazine and to change out the 7.62x39 marked ejection port cover.

Posted: 10/30/2018 4:44:32 PM EDT

[#7]

http://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/foundry/image/?q=60&url=https%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Fthe-drive-staging%2Fmessage-editor%252F1516329614756-jajjaj1111.jpg

the forging for the upper receiver sorta looks like a Noveske Gen III. and Noveske M-LOK rail? CPD mags, i suspect. and a BCM charging handle (not ambi). Troy flip-up BUIS. they shoulda went with the HK-style front, more like the AK, unless they're trying to learn to transition to AR-style A2 FSB sight picture.

not sure whose safety selector that is.

Posted: 10/30/2018 11:04:19 PM EDT

[#8]

Why did they have to freakin copy me?

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Posted: 10/31/2018 7:28:42 AM EDT

[#9]

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Quoted:

There seem to be more issues with the "AK-15" type rifles (AR rifle design using special lower receiver to accept 7062x39 AK mags & ammo), because they also required a special (non-standard) AR Bolt Carrier in addition to non standard lower and some special receiver parts)

That would basically require a whole new rifle if they wanted to update to 5.56 down the road.

The AR-47 in 7.62x39 to 5.56 would be basic easy level stuff (new 5.56 barrel, new 5.56 bolt, a STANAG 5.56 magazine and to change out the 7.62x39 marked ejection port cover.

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That's crazy talk ! Why would they ever want to give up the 7.62 x 39 ???

Posted: 10/31/2018 9:16:56 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:

There seem to be more issues with the "AK-15" type rifles (AR rifle design using special lower receiver to accept 7062x39 AK mags & ammo), because they also required a special (non-standard) AR Bolt Carrier in addition to non standard lower and some special receiver parts)

That would basically require a whole new rifle if they wanted to update to 5.56 down the road.

The AR-47 in 7.62x39 to 5.56 would be basic easy level stuff (new 5.56 barrel, new 5.56 bolt, a STANAG 5.56 magazine and to change out the 7.62x39 marked ejection port cover.

View Quote

And... the fit and function of AK mags can vary enough to cause feeding issues in AR based / AK mag'd firearms.

So IMHO a more modern mag for the new rifle is a better bet.

I am curious if they could find better quality ammo to take advantage of some of the AR/K's improvements. ( More precise ammo... even a higher quality FMJ would help )

Posted: 10/31/2018 9:38:16 AM EDT

[#11]

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And... the fit and function of AK mags can vary enough to cause feeding issues in AR based / AK mag'd firearms.

So IMHO a more modern mag for the new rifle is a better bet.

I am curious if they could find better quality ammo to take advantage of some of the AR/K's improvements. ( More precise ammo... even a higher quality FMJ would help )

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Agreed. Look at what has been done to increase the effectiveness of the 9mm and 5.56.

If similar efforts went toward 7.62x39 you could get both better ballistics and effectiveness.

Those AK-15 type rifles (special lower to use 7.62x39 AK magazines) seemed to have significantly more "issues" with function, which negates the benefit of reusing the old mags.

I'd bet they could surplus them off their old AK mags for close to even on a large order of AR-47 mags to get cost down per unit.

I wonder if MagPull will come out with a 7.62x39 AR magazine?

I've been running the C-Product 30 round mags in a pair of AR-47s and they have worked flawlessly!

Posted: 10/31/2018 9:39:49 AM EDT

[#12]

... Ooops Dang Double Tap...

Laggy Connection today...

Posted: 10/31/2018 11:04:49 AM EDT

[#13]

I have no first hand experience but seeing pics of their soldiers how are they going to afford new rifles when most of their guys dont even have complete uniforms

There’s nothing wrong with the AK.

Except they can’t buy them from Russia anymore

Maybe that’s why they want to switch.

Posted: 10/31/2018 11:29:51 AM EDT

[#14]

Someone please show that guy how to extend the buttstock, my wrist hurts looking at him!

Posted: 11/1/2018 5:38:49 AM EDT

[#15]

It looks just like my rifle.
I'm surprised how Americanized it is. You'd think they would have cobbled together a locally made rifle.

Posted: 11/1/2018 7:34:33 AM EDT

[#16]

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I'm surprised how Americanized it is.

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Not sure why you're surprised....take another look at that rollmark.

Posted: 11/1/2018 2:44:03 PM EDT

[#17]

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Not sure why you're surprised....take another look at that rollmark.

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"Worldwide Aeros Corp". Ok, what am I missing? I've never heard of them.

Posted: 11/1/2018 2:52:25 PM EDT

[#18]

Mags look familiar. I bet they are fucking junk.

Posted: 11/1/2018 3:18:03 PM EDT

[#19]

Wow, Lot of negativity.
I think it’s a great idea for them. They’ll use up their ammo stock and become familiar with the AR then probably transition to 5.56.

I’ve been enjoying my AR x39 builds for 2 or 3 years.
With CPD GEN 3 mags, they run flawlessly.

Posted: 11/1/2018 3:18:29 PM EDT

[#20]

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"Worldwide Aeros Corp". Ok, what am I missing? I've never heard of them.

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Here's another hint: They're made in America.

Tell us again why it is you're surprised that they're "Americanized"?

Saudis carry "americanized" M4s. So do the Kuwaitis (okay A2s and shit that are older than Milton Berle but still). LOOOOTS of militaries all over the world carry "Americanized" weaponry. How is that surprising?

What do you envision a "proper" Ukranian rifle to look like?

Posted: 11/1/2018 6:13:12 PM EDT

[#21]

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Quoted:
I have no first hand experience but seeing pics of their soldiers how are they going to afford new rifles when most of their guys dont even have complete uniforms

There’s nothing wrong with the AK.

Except they can’t buy them from Russia anymore

Maybe that’s why they want to switch.

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You'd be surprised "who" will donate money for firearms to the side "they" want to win.... I remember seeing all sorts of VERY new and advanced small arms weapons in the Yugo. breakup years ago.

Posted: 11/1/2018 6:24:56 PM EDT

[#22]

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You'd be surprised "who" will donate money for firearms to the side "they" want to win.... I remember seeing all sorts of VERY new and advanced small arms weapons in the Yugo. breakup years ago.

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Lol just look at Syria. CIA is funding one faction, DoD another, and now the two are fighting each other so.....wtf?

Posted: 11/1/2018 7:12:36 PM EDT

[#23]

so is somebody gonna build a Ukraine cloner AR-47? no, not me. can't afford Noveske. not sure if it's a 7.62 SF3P or SF4P or something else.

ETA: from the Youtube video linked in the first post, i saw both SF3P FH and 3P WarComp.

Youtube: whole bunch of russian characters M4 - WAC-47

Posted: 11/3/2018 10:09:29 PM EDT

[#24]

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Quoted:

I wonder if MagPull will come out with a 7.62x39 AR magazine?

I've been running the C-Product 30 round mags in a pair of AR-47s and they have worked flawlessly!

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From our lips to MagPul's ears!!! The CPD's are great mags. ASC's suck............ DAMHIK

Posted: 11/3/2018 10:14:20 PM EDT

[#25]

Posted: 11/3/2018 10:51:49 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not sure why you're surprised....take another look at that rollmark.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm surprised how Americanized it is.

Not sure why you're surprised....take another look at that rollmark.

When I said I was surprised, I meant at things like Magpul furniture, CPD mags, Troy buis and 15" mlok rail. Looks like what the cool kids in the US build.
I'm all for it. Great looking weapons, imo.
I wouldn't have been surprised if they bought standard Colt m4s or fn a4s.

Posted: 11/5/2018 2:41:51 AM EDT

[#27]

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"Worldwide Aeros Corp". Ok, what am I missing? I've never heard of them.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Not sure why you're surprised....take another look at that rollmark.

"Worldwide Aeros Corp". Ok, what am I missing? I've never heard of them.

Guy who owns the company is Ukrainian.

They will be fully built in Ukraine, so as not to have Silly American Export Controls

Posted: 11/27/2018 4:10:48 PM EDT

[#28]

The upper and lower appear similar to the CMMG ANVIL. Probably has an ar-10 sized bolt head but ar-15 bolt length.

The magazine also looks thicker. Closer to the dimensions of an ak magazine, just made to drop free of the magazine well of this design. I would open, machine the anvil receivers to take this magazine.

DB

Posted: 12/6/2018 10:06:49 AM EDT

[#29]

With all the Craze of Cloning, if these make it into Production, Issue & Combat Use they would be pretty easy to replicate as it all appears to be off the shelf.

Nice to know the free market can supply the upgrades to the AR as the Lego of firearms.

Magpul and or Lancer needs to get on it about making high-quality 7.62x39 AR mags. (hint hint hint...

)

My CPD's work great, but it would always be nice to have an alternative source... (just in case)...

BIGGER_HAMMER

Posted: 12/9/2018 8:36:03 PM EDT

[#30]

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That's crazy talk ! Why would they ever want to give up the 7.62 x 39 ???

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Ukraine doesn't even field 7.62x39mm to the military except in basic training and some SF/MVD. They still mostly use 5.45mm and 54r. However, they do have several thousand 5.56 guns in inventory now but they do not see a lot of action due to ammo supply. They do however have tons of 7.62x39mm in stores. They are doing this to train guys up on Ars and use up their supply of old 7.62 ammo.

Posted: 12/12/2018 6:02:35 PM EDT

[#31]

While not eligible for NATO membership due to the Russian invasion, Ukraine has committed itself to bringing it's military inline with NATO standards. Since 2016 they've been spending 5% of GDP on the defense budget.

They also license-built some Tavors in 5.45x39 for their special forces. I wonder how easy those are to switch back to 5.56?

Posted: 12/21/2018 7:13:03 PM EDT

[#32]

love this move, it's bold

Posted: 2/6/2019 8:02:30 PM EDT

[#33]

Anyone see this?
Just confirms how far this configuration has come.
Yemeni army

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/2191855_Colt-CK901-An-AR-in-7-62x39mm-for-the-Yemeni-Military.html

Posted: 2/6/2019 11:07:04 PM EDT

[#34]

I have a set of those rails on a build, they are cheap, pretty tough and not too heavy. Ukraine doing it right!

Posted: 2/7/2019 2:27:32 AM EDT

[#35]

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I have a set of those rails on a build, they are cheap, pretty tough and not too heavy. Ukraine doing it right!

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Noveske 15" M-LOK rail $275.
mounted to the Noveske Gen III upper.

Posted: 2/7/2019 12:04:57 PM EDT

[#36]

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Quoted:
Noveske 15" M-LOK rail $275.
mounted to the Noveske Gen III upper.

http://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/foundry/image/?q=70&w=1440&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftimedotcom.files.wordpress.com%2F2018%2F01%2Fjjjja11111.jpg%3Fquality%3D85

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View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have a set of those rails on a build, they are cheap, pretty tough and not too heavy. Ukraine doing it right!

Noveske 15" M-LOK rail $275.
mounted to the Noveske Gen III upper.

http://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/foundry/image/?q=70&w=1440&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftimedotcom.files.wordpress.com%2F2018%2F01%2Fjjjja11111.jpg%3Fquality%3D85

my bad, they look just like a set I bought for the kids fun gun.....thx

Posted: 3/28/2019 2:03:52 PM EDT

[#37]

Decided I'm going to use my Tax Refund to build one...

Slavic Influence & Collusion be damned!!

Posted: 3/28/2019 5:14:14 PM EDT

[#38]

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Quoted:
Decided I'm going to use my Tax Refund to build one...

Slavic Influence & Collusion be damned!!

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I do like the reinforced snout of the Noveske Gen III uppers. Rainier has them on sale every now and then, also the "Chainsaw" not-as-perfect versions. I'm always tempted...

Rainier Arms: Noveske Gen III AR-15 upper receiver stripped

Rainier Arms: Noveske Gen III "Chainsaw" AR-15 upper receiver stripped

Posted: 3/30/2019 4:43:24 PM EDT

[#39]

I had a factory Colt 7.62x39 AR in the mid-90’s. It absolutely would not function reliably. The magazines were the biggest problem, and looking at the raked curve on the Ukrainian gun reminds me of those days I spent cursing the Colt at the range.

Hopefully the Ukrainians will sort out the idiosyncratic problems with a radically tapered cartridge AR.

Posted: 3/31/2019 1:03:26 AM EDT

[#40]

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Quoted:
I had a factory Colt 7.62x39 AR in the mid-90’s. It absolutely would not function reliably. The magazines were the biggest problem, and looking at the raked curve on the Ukrainian gun reminds me of those days I spent cursing the Colt at the range.

Hopefully the Ukrainians will sort out the idiosyncratic problems with a radically tapered cartridge AR.

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mid-90's? seriously? you haven't kept up, have you?

a lot of American ingenuity has occurred in the meantime, to allow shooting cheap 7.62x39 ammo reliably, to save us American shooters our hard-earned money. the contractor selling these American-designed ARx39's to the Ukranians is just cashing in on what's already been developed. He's not bringing anything new to the party, it's all off-the-shelf proven stuff wrapped up with a pretty bow.

although there is that one thread here that shows a 15% bolt failure rate...
AR-15 7.62x39 broken bolt poll

Posted: 3/31/2019 1:20:06 AM EDT

[#41]

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Ukraine can not join NATO as no states with active territorial disputes may be admitted.

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That’s policy, not law.

I don’t see it happening though, at least not while nothing gets done without consensus. Russia’s current model of essentially creating territorial disputes in countries that show aspirations toward NATO might be the one thing that eventually wakes them up, though.

But, I don’t see Ukraine or Georgia as worth the political capital, and think Russia has calculated this accurately.