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Triggered [Formerly Partisan] Talk (Page 7 of 40)
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It's FB. Most of us can't see that. Isn't Cloak just a reseller? |
I love a good double entendre.
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Originally Posted By trails-end: It's FB. Most of us can't see that. Originally Posted By trails-end: It's FB. Most of us can't see that. Here here. Cite the source. (FB isn't a source.) Isn't Cloak just a reseller? The law affords recovery from anyone in the "stream of commerce" of selling infringing products, even if those resellers didn't make those products. (Otherwise, everyone would just move manufacturing to jurisdictions who refused to enforce US patent law.) It also allows recovery from entities who "enable" infringement, which is likely the theory under which Hoffman Tactical was targeted. A common tactic is to sue smaller companies or entities because they are more likely to settle. More licenses can bolster the appearance of legitimacy in the eyes of larger entities more capable of challenging the patent (or sometimes even courts considering validity), although I think sophisticated audiences have largely caught onto that gambit. |
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Originally Posted By trails-end: RE: AR Takedown Tools. Order placed 12/17. I replied to the original email on Saturday, 1/3, to cancel my order. Yesterday, I got a reply stating the first 200 packages are ready to ship and mine was in the first 100. It was order #2775. I replied to continue with the shipment. I received shipping confirmation last night with a USPS tracking number. My order was placed before Christmas. When I got tired of waiting I started looking for way to contact them on the website. Nothing. I started a chargeback with my credit card. A few days later I got a long text from Jonathan saying I’m sorry, if you will remove the chargeback I will refund your money, etc. In further texts he talks about how a chargeback will hurt his Shopify (or whatever) rating. Says there is no way to do a refund on his end??? Sends me screenshots from his phone. Even promised to send me a free AR takedown tool. (Isn’t that a bullet?) Yesterday I took him at his word and canceled the dispute. It is back as a charge on my CC account as of this morning. Am I screwed? (Probably) Will he be a standup guy? I guess I will find out. I will post here whatever happens. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: So is my understanding correct in that they purposely designed this trigger like the RB in order to get sued by them so it could go to court and then attempt to win against RB? That seems to be the subtext from what they've said here. |
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Originally Posted By ELittlefield: That seems to be the subtext from what they've said here. Originally Posted By ELittlefield: Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: So is my understanding correct in that they purposely designed this trigger like the RB in order to get sued by them so it could go to court and then attempt to win against RB? That seems to be the subtext from what they've said here. |
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Phase 2 of the plan? I read bits about a Partisan Insurance Policy that covers resellers. So, we'll see. Wonder if Battlehawk, and takedown too are also short listed. But more than that, I wonder how Optics Planet will respond if they're sued too. |
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Originally Posted By mini14jac: My order was placed before Christmas. When I got tired of waiting I started looking for way to contact them on the website. Nothing. I started a chargeback with my credit card. A few days later I got a long text from Jonathan saying I'm sorry, if you will remove the chargeback I will refund your money, etc. In further texts he talks about how a chargeback will hurt his Shopify (or whatever) rating. Says there is no way to do a refund on his end??? Sends me screenshots from his phone. Even promised to send me a free AR takedown tool. (Isn't that a bullet?) Yesterday I took him at his word and canceled the dispute. It is back as a charge on my CC account as of this morning. Am I screwed? (Probably) Will he be a standup guy? I guess I will find out. I will post here whatever happens.  |
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Originally Posted By TZLVredmist: Can someone please link to something that is visible on that? Or C-V the text? Hope this is OK to post… Attached File |
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I can see where you're coming from, 'cause I know where you've been and I can see where you're going 'cause I can see the direction you're headed in. I just don't know where the hell you're at right now.
I can see where you're coming from, 'cause I know where you've been and I can see where you're going 'cause I can see the direction you're headed in. I just don't know where the hell you're at right now.
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I think this is a complicated game of chess. Has anyone heard of Cloak Industries prior to them selling the Partisan trigger? I looked at their website- the only products are the Partisan and a belt-fed upper. No- I'm not suggesting Cloak is not legitimate, but perhaps very carefully crafted as a retailer of the Partisan. Bait, some might say. |
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Originally Posted By ELittlefield: That seems to be the subtext from what they've said here. Originally Posted By ELittlefield: Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: So is my understanding correct in that they purposely designed this trigger like the RB in order to get sued by them so it could go to court and then attempt to win against RB? That seems to be the subtext from what they've said here. I seem to recall JD of the Arizona Trigger had posted some things about holes in the RB patent. His thoughts and words were certainly hard to follow. I tend to think that Partisan is operating at level that is not at a "hope and a prayer". I've been trying to follow a lot of the Lawyers on youtube who have breaking down these patent cases, but even they are struggling with this in many cases. |
Northern born and Southern Bred
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Originally Posted By Bearbait1: I seem to recall JD of the Arizona Trigger had posted some things about holes in the RB patent. His thoughts and words were certainly hard to follow. I tend to think that Partisan is operating at level that is not at a "hope and a prayer". I've been trying to follow a lot of the Lawyers on youtube who have breaking down these patent cases, but even they are struggling with this in many cases. |
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I finally installed my partisan trigger today. I had problems getting it going. Even on single loaded rounds first out of a magazine I got a dimple on the primer but it didn't fire. Out of 60 rounds I got maybe 3 to fire on semi auto and got two short bursts in faux auto. I did buy a brand new bolt and carrier that came in a generic container but has what looks like a noveske iron cross on it. It came with a semi auto carrier. I also installed an h3 buffer. I installed it in a police surplus M and P that used to be my bump fire gun. I'm going to try some different uppers, bolt/carriers and buffers Friday. The partisan trigger sure seems like a quality part and mine does have what seem like normal selector detents.  These machinegun ish carbines take a little fiddling. My rare breed has a problem every 200ish rounds where it stops firing, I'm going to try an h3 |
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Originally Posted By Aimless: I finally installed my partisan trigger today. I had problems getting it going. Even on single loaded rounds first out of a magazine I got a dimple on the primer but it didn't fire. Out of 60 rounds I got maybe 3 to fire on semi auto and got two short bursts in faux auto. I did buy a brand new bolt and carrier that came in a generic container but has what looks like a noveske iron cross on it. It came with a semi auto carrier. I also installed an h3 buffer. I installed it in a police surplus M and P that used to be my bump fire gun. I'm going to try some different uppers, bolt/carriers and buffers Friday. The partisan trigger sure seems like a quality part and mine does have what seem like normal selector detents. These machinegun ish carbines take a little fiddling. My rare breed has a problem every 200ish rounds where it stops firing, I'm going to try an h3Fascinating. First we've heard of something like this with thousands of units shipped. Any further info you can provide, and pictures, would be great. |
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed
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Originally Posted By Aimless: I finally installed my partisan trigger today. I had problems getting it going. Even on single loaded rounds first out of a magazine I got a dimple on the primer but it didn't fire. Out of 60 rounds I got maybe 3 to fire on semi auto and got two short bursts in faux auto. I did buy a brand new bolt and carrier that came in a generic container but has what looks like a noveske iron cross on it. It came with a semi auto carrier. I also installed an h3 buffer. I installed it in a police surplus M and P that used to be my bump fire gun. I'm going to try some different uppers, bolt/carriers and buffers Friday. The partisan trigger sure seems like a quality part and mine does have what seem like normal selector detents. These machinegun ish carbines take a little fiddling. My rare breed has a problem every 200ish rounds where it stops firing, I'm going to try an h3Are you sure it's going into battery fully? How many rounds on the main spring? It may be weak and not charging properly. |
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost: A semi auto carrier is going to have issues. Are you sure it's going into battery fully? How many rounds on the main spring? It may be weak and not charging properly. A semi auto carrier shouldn't work at all.
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Originally Posted By ELittlefield: How did it even ALMOST fire with a semi auto carrier? Isn't that, like exactly why the semi auto carrier was designed? To NOT trip that spot? |
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Originally Posted By ELittlefield: How did it even ALMOST fire with a semi auto carrier? Isn't that, like exactly why the semi auto carrier was designed? To NOT trip that spot? |
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Originally Posted By Aimless: It sure could be the spring is just pooped out. I'll get a new one tomorrow. I took it out and compared it to a spring out of an H and R "car15" clone and it looked shorter. Which spring are you referring to? |
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed
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Originally Posted By chuck1: Im # 2942 for take down tools I got a reply to my email about wanting to cancel and he said all the orders from the first batch will ship by the end of the week. True or not I don't know. If I don't get shipping info by end of week I'm starting a charge back. I received a tracking number Sunday night. The number is legit, but USPS says they don't have it yet. |
I love a good double entendre.
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Originally Posted By Ben: Fascinating. First we've heard of something like this with thousands of units shipped. Any further info you can provide, and pictures, would be great. Originally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By Aimless: I finally installed my partisan trigger today. I had problems getting it going. Even on single loaded rounds first out of a magazine I got a dimple on the primer but it didn't fire. Out of 60 rounds I got maybe 3 to fire on semi auto and got two short bursts in faux auto. I did buy a brand new bolt and carrier that came in a generic container but has what looks like a noveske iron cross on it. It came with a semi auto carrier. I also installed an h3 buffer. I installed it in a police surplus M and P that used to be my bump fire gun. I'm going to try some different uppers, bolt/carriers and buffers Friday. The partisan trigger sure seems like a quality part and mine does have what seem like normal selector detents. These machinegun ish carbines take a little fiddling. My rare breed has a problem every 200ish rounds where it stops firing, I'm going to try an h3Fascinating. First we've heard of something like this with thousands of units shipped. Any further info you can provide, and pictures, would be great. The rarebreed hits the firing pin harder. I couldn't even get the Partisan to work in an MCX Virtus because of this. I sent you an e-mail asking for heavier hammer springs if you recall. |
| Yes, the Partisan hammer spring is some amount weaker than an RB or other types of semi-only triggers. If you line up a few lower and check using your thumb to start each trigger rearward, it is very easy to feel the differences. No clue whether this is part of Aimless' issues, but if you have a plan to use this in something (like a 22LR) that has strict dependencies on hammer spring weight, you may have issues. A heavier hammer spring would likely increase the overall trigger pull weight, but having the option to install a heaver spring might be nice to have. |
Northern born and Southern Bred
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Originally Posted By Bearbait1: Yes, the Partisan hammer spring is some amount weaker than an RB or other types of semi-only triggers. If you line up a few lower and check using your thumb to start each trigger rearward, it is very easy to feel the differences. No clue whether this is part of Aimless' issues, but if you have a plan to use this in something (like a 22LR) that has strict dependencies on hammer spring weight, you may have issues. A heavier hammer spring would likely increase the overall trigger pull weight, but having the option to install a heaver spring might be nice to have. Ugh - could be problematic in blowback 9mm. Oh well, I’ll just have to see how mine work when they eventually arrive. |
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Certainly, could be problematic. As the setup is a system, the firing pin spring relates to the force to detonate the primer. It also impacts the rearward bolt travel speed, which has an impact on hammer/sear reset, amount of the "forced reset" imparted onto the trigger, etc. This amount of force needed to reset/frt can be tied to how hard you squeeze the trigger in FRT operation. And bolt weight, action/recoil spring weights and buffer weights are the back half of the system which will affect things like bolt bounce, as well as being tied back into how fast the bolt moves backward. And in anything blowback, your choice of ammo is what actually starts this system running (in centerfire, you can now add in ammo, gas port size etc.). With 22lr, at least we have choices as to how we can address various parts of this system. IMHO, trying to get things running outside of the design window of centerfire 556 requires one to embrace the chaos..... |
Northern born and Southern Bred
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Originally Posted By jwlaxton: The rarebreed hits the firing pin harder. I couldn't even get the Partisan to work in an MCX Virtus because of this. I sent you an e-mail asking for heavier hammer springs if you recall. Originally Posted By jwlaxton: Originally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By Aimless: I finally installed my partisan trigger today. I had problems getting it going. Even on single loaded rounds first out of a magazine I got a dimple on the primer but it didn't fire. Out of 60 rounds I got maybe 3 to fire on semi auto and got two short bursts in faux auto. I did buy a brand new bolt and carrier that came in a generic container but has what looks like a noveske iron cross on it. It came with a semi auto carrier. I also installed an h3 buffer. I installed it in a police surplus M and P that used to be my bump fire gun. I'm going to try some different uppers, bolt/carriers and buffers Friday. The partisan trigger sure seems like a quality part and mine does have what seem like normal selector detents. These machinegun ish carbines take a little fiddling. My rare breed has a problem every 200ish rounds where it stops firing, I'm going to try an h3Fascinating. First we've heard of something like this with thousands of units shipped. Any further info you can provide, and pictures, would be great. The rarebreed hits the firing pin harder. I couldn't even get the Partisan to work in an MCX Virtus because of this. I sent you an e-mail asking for heavier hammer springs if you recall. What trip are you running, by the way? |
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Originally Posted By Ben: We have heavier springs in hand, haven't tested them yet. Should be this week. If the stronger hammer spring is needed, can the end user do the swap? looking at pictures, It looks like the hollow hammer pin should drive out but I'm not sure if this is the correct. |
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Originally Posted By shultz: Ben, I don't yet have my Disruptors in hand so this may be a dumb question... If the stronger hammer spring is needed, can the end user do the swap? looking at pictures, It looks like the hollow hammer pin should drive out but I'm not sure if this is the correct. |
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Originally Posted By shultz: Ben, I don't yet have my Disruptors in hand so this may be a dumb question... If the stronger hammer spring is needed, can the end user do the swap? looking at pictures, It looks like the hollow hammer pin should drive out but I'm not sure if this is the correct. Yes, you could change it at the user level. That said... If the trigger is properly lubed and the firearm cleaned regularly, a heavier spring shouldn't be necessary. To put it in perspective - during one day of testing we fired over 12,000 rounds of Winchester M193, which is known to have harder than average primers. We didn't clean the guns, and most of those rounds were fired through two firearms (a Anderson mid length carbine and a CMMG lower/FN upper Mk18). In 12,000 rounds we had less than two dozen light primer strikes, something like half of which were in the last few hundred rounds. The only real issue we encountered was a broken extractor. We did have to open up the firearms every few thousand rounds and spray lube in to keep them from running sluggish. Clean and keep well lubed and you should be fine. |
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed
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So after a sleepless night I went out again morning and with some experimenting I got it running with a new Colt carbine spring and H buffer. I tried a bunch of combinations of the old spring, an h and r spring, a carbine weight buffer, an H3 and an H. I'm still scratching my head over it sometimes not firing a first round when you use the forward assist first and it's on semi. I'm going to double check again this afternoon. |
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Originally Posted By Aimless: So after a sleepless night I went out again morning and with some experimenting I got it running with a new Colt carbine spring and H buffer. I tried a bunch of combinations of the old spring, an h and r spring, a carbine weight buffer, an H3 and an H. I'm still scratching my head over it sometimes not firing a first round when you use the forward assist first and it's on semi. I'm going to double check again this afternoon. I cannot illustrate the respect I have to your dedication to get this working, particularly when accounting for your lack of opposable thumbs and presumably limited dexterity for your flipper wings. 
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Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed
https://americanpioneercorps.org
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Originally Posted By Ben: Yes, you could change it at the user level. That said... If the trigger is properly lubed and the firearm cleaned regularly, a heavier spring shouldn't be necessary. To put it in perspective - during one day of testing we fired over 12,000 rounds of Winchester M193, which is known to have harder than average primers. We didn't clean the guns, and most of those rounds were fired through two firearms (a Anderson mid length carbine and a CMMG lower/FN upper Mk18). In 12,000 rounds we had less than two dozen light primer strikes, something like half of which were in the last few hundred rounds. The only real issue we encountered was a broken extractor. We did have to open up the firearms every few thousand rounds and spray lube in to keep them from running sluggish. Clean and keep well lubed and you should be fine. 22lr is a PIA to get functioning properly FRT. I've done it twice now using a Super Safety and MARC. Each ended up functioning the best when using a full set of KVP reduced power trigger/hammer/disconnector springs. I have yet to have any ignition issues using these lighter springs. Having said this, 22lr can be finicky when it comes to ignition, not sure where the disruptor hammer spring will rate when compared to stock/reduced power hammer springs. Having the option of obtaining a stronger hammer spring may be the small change that achieves good function/ignition for 22lr. |
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Originally Posted By Ben: I cannot illustrate the respect I have to your dedication to get this working, particularly when accounting for your lack of opposable thumbs and presumably limited dexterity for your flipper wings. |
Triggered [Formerly Partisan] Talk (Page 7 of 40)
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