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Thoughts on the BRN-4, Brownells 416D clone? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/25/2025 9:56:56 PM EDT
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Pretty late to the game on this, didn’t even find out about it until recently. It’s lighter than my old Virtus, and allows for some tuning via spring and buffer weight for suppression. As a bonus, it’s also a good way to give our teutonic friends at HK the finger. Haven’t seen much posted on here about it, aside from folks losing their minds over the rough machining on the receiver. Specifically looking for opinions on how well they suppress with traditional cans, had a really dumb idea to slap an OCM5 on one of the 13.7” uppers for shits and grins. |
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i ordered all the parts for the 16.5" chrome-lined M27 version, including the Brownells "HK-inspired" handguard. in the process of doing the assembly. my Geissele handguard wrench fits, I noticed the barrel nut is steel. came out to about $1,450 piece-meal for the upper. coulda saved some $$ by ordering one of the regular combos, which don't include the handguard, but I really wanted that M27 barrel. the little plastic insert for the handguard tab into the upper receiver slot (as shown by Caleb in the video) is an item that is not sold separately, and not included with the handguard or the upper. The upper receiver is fine by me, I didn't look at it with a magnifying glass sorry, will be un-suppressed 100%. |
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Carrying over from the other thread, I run both of my BRN-4 uppers with suppressors. The 14.5 upper has run both of my Surefire suppressors, RC-2 and RC-2 mini, and both work fine. I have an Aero lower (Form 1) that has a BCM MK2 (A5) buffer tube and a T2 buffer with a Geissele Super 42 rifle length spring. Recoil impulse is pretty decent and runs without any issues. My 10.4 upper runs on a LMT Defender lower (Form 1) with the same buffer system and I use the RC-2 suppressor for it. I have run my Griffin Armament Recce 5 on the 10.4 upper with a MR556 12.5 inch MLOK rail and I like that setup a little bit better and I will be switching back to it soon. Current Setups:  BRN-4 14.5 & 10.4 Setups by James H., on FlickrGoing back to this, I like this much better for the 10.4 inch upper.  10.4 & Recce 5 by James H., on Flickr
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Originally Posted By DrRockso: the adjustable gas block of the Caracal kills the BRN4 for me. For less $ the Caracal gives me something similar that is better with a can. Looked into it briefly, not a fan of supporting anything in the UAE, and I generally prefer more granularity to adjustable gas systems than simple 3 position, though I do understand the point of them. It’s also kinda nice having the entire market of handguards to choose from. Gas system is basically the same as the 516, right? Just without the “off” position. Pretty sure golden webb toasted something in the gas block during their burn down, though that’s just an interesting anecdote, I don’t see myself going cyclic for 20 straight magazines. Part of what interests me in the older 416 design is the simpler auto regulating gas block. Nothing to fiddle with, no way to make the gun not function, nothing to carbon lock, nothing to break or eject out of the weapon. It is annoying to have to re-zero lasers whenever you clean the gas system, though. |
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Originally Posted By DrRockso: the adjustable gas block of the Caracal kills the BRN4 for me. For less $ the Caracal gives me something similar that is better with a can. How is your Caracal working out for you? I've heard some pretty good things about those, but I have yet to see one in person. |
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Originally Posted By DrRockso: I like mine. It's a good suppressor host. It's lighter than my similarly set up LMT. It's a keeper. Originally Posted By DrRockso: Originally Posted By jmh556: How is your Caracal working out for you? I've heard some pretty good things about those, but I have yet to see one in person. I like mine. It's a good suppressor host. It's lighter than my similarly set up LMT. It's a keeper. What’s the handguard lockup and barrel nut look like? Haven’t been able to find any pictures of it disassembled. |
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Originally Posted By rb889: What’s the handguard lockup and barrel nut look like? Haven’t been able to find any pictures of it disassembled. I have not had the rail off it so can't comment on the barrel nut. It has a beefy tab that idexes on the top of the upper and seems very rigid to me. 
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Originally Posted By DrRockso: I have not had the rail off it so can't comment on the barrel nut. It has a beefy tab that idexes on the top of the upper and seems very rigid to me. https://i.imgur.com/vgsfOVL.png Originally Posted By DrRockso: Originally Posted By rb889: What’s the handguard lockup and barrel nut look like? Haven’t been able to find any pictures of it disassembled. I have not had the rail off it so can't comment on the barrel nut. It has a beefy tab that idexes on the top of the upper and seems very rigid to me. https://i.imgur.com/vgsfOVL.png Saw that, I’m wondering if it’s the same barrel nut as the 516, or if it’s 416 design. Their quad rail has the same setup, but the screws are on the bottom. Still a friction fit clamp, but it is an interesting way to slim it down compared to other designs that are either fairly tall, or have a tab sticking out right below the barrel nut. |
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I've got the BRN-4 upper group - like the first reply, I bought a 16" upper with the intent to convert it to an "M27-ish" clone using their "M27 inspired" handguards (they're pretty easily distinguishable from the correct/HK ones, but they're close enough for people who want "close enough" for less expensive). Popped off the 16" barrel and put on the new M27 profile barrel, and found the same as the first poster - no shim with the handguard. I reached out to Brownells about it: The plastic insert, per Brownells, were only for the early run of uppers that had a wider notch for the handguard to fit into - subsequent runs of the upper (anything you'd buy today) and the notch is much tighter and to HK spec, so no longer need that shim. I think the handguard fit, IF IT FITS (*), is really tight - the wedge nut they use is IIRC the same as what HK uses (?) and it seems to retain zero really well - I've got a front sight on it now, and will probably put a DBAL on it at some point later. I took mine out to the range today, and put maybe 250-300 rounds through it while just basic zeroing the optic on it and function testing it. Mix of one mag each of 55gr and 62gr M855 (both Federal IIRC) and 2 mags of 77gr OTM (AAC) - no can on the rifle. Then I fired one magazine of again the same 55gr and 62, then a mag of 75gr BTHP (AAC), then two mags again of the same AAC 77gr OTM. I had only one problem - one specific magazine, a D&H mag, did not like feeding 77gr OTM - but simply pushing/pressing/wobbling the mag would make it feed - this one was %100 a mag issue. It might run ok in a normal AR but it didn't specifically like the BRN-4 (which IIRC has a higher feed height, compared to a standard M4). All the other mags I shot (OKay SureFeeds and other mags, I think a mix of other OKay and Center Industries) were fine, all fed well - all were using Magpul followers btw...I don't remember if they were "enhanced" followers or not though. I had one other identical D&H mag loaded with 75gr BTHP and that one fed/functioned just fine, so...maybe one singular bad mag, maybe it was specifically incompatible with the longer 77gr round...etc. No idea, but I've already marked the mag and I'll try it with regular ARs and see if it still has failures or not. IT might have even been the LRB lower that I was using that it was incompatible with, who knows. I only had those two D&H mags, all the other mags tried were either OK Surefeeds, or GI contractor mags - didn't even do any Magpuls. So it seems the GI contractor mags might be the way to fly, and to just keep an eye on D&H mags. Anyway - %100 function outside of that one specific mag. The lower had a standard carbine spring, with an H2 buffer. Ejection without the can was almost straight out - figure 3:30 or so. Ejection WITH the can was...again almost straight out - figure 2:30-2:45 or so, and sometimes straight out at 3:00 on the dot. The "self-regulating" gas block does work. I didn't get any real gas to face either...but to be fair there was a constant 10mph wind blowing from front to back, so YMMV? 95f with a billion percent humidity and stagnant air will for sure let you know if it'll gas you out or not but we're not there yet in our seasons  I think I could probably safely drop down to an H buffer, maybe take some of the thump out of the recoil cycle, and not have any adverse effects. I'll try that next time I'm out. Overall - very happy. Now I need to find an HK manual to figure out maintenance cycles, since I'm not sure taking the handguard off every few hundred rounds to clean the gas system is necessary * regarding handguard fit - I also built out a 10.4" upper to go along with the M27 (figured while I was there, I may as well also "clone" the Marine 10.4" carbine upper some groups get issued with their M27). Along with that, was the "M27 inspired" 9" handguard that Brownells also makes and sells. I went through two of them and neither fit - both were way larger around the barrel nut, and would not tighten down without being able to wobble the handguard in a circle around the thing. There was no way to shim it up to prevent wobble and even if it were possible, it'd never be solid enough to mount a sight to, never mind a DBAL - it would never hold zero, or duplicate zero if it were ever removed and reattached like you'd need to do to service the gun. I am working with Brownells now, who I can only guess has found a problem with their stock of handguards...they've not yet sent me a 3rd one to test out, which tells me they're still figuring it out on their end The 11" handguard seems to be good, at least for my one example on two different barrels and barrel nuts - the 9" handguards did not fit, again across a sample size of two different uppers and barrel nuts. So, YMMV?
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"Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he pulled the pin on another grenade...
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I got an original 9” quad rail since it was $30 more from Hkparts, so I can’t comment on the brownells version. The HK slides on easy and locks up tight. 16” medium profile with the 9” quad is a little hefty, about the same as a 16” G-SD, maybe a smidge lighter. May end up trying the midwest mlok rail at some point, kinda enjoying the nostalgia of a VFG and quad rail, but an Iris-4 is definitely on the shopping list for this, shaving off the weight of a separate light would be nice. I’ll probably end up building out a 10.4” upper to suppress before too long. |
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Originally Posted By rb889: I got an original 9” quad rail since it was $30 more from Hkparts, so I can’t comment on the brownells version. The HK slides on easy and locks up tight. 16” medium profile with the 9” quad is a little hefty, about the same as a 16” G-SD, maybe a smidge lighter. May end up trying the midwest mlok rail at some point, kinda enjoying the nostalgia of a VFG and quad rail, but an Iris-4 is definitely on the shopping list for this, shaving off the weight of a separate light would be nice. I’ll probably end up building out a 10.4” upper to suppress before too long. Hmm the only rails I see at HKParts that's anywhere near the Brownells price is their HKParts-own rail; not made by HK. Unless you bought the rail a long time ago, if it was ever cheap What drives me nuts is they don't sell the stupid little spring that retains the handguard screw...so it'll just come off and can get lost I'll give Brownells a little more time, but if they don't figure something out...MI MLok, or the HKParts rail for sure. |
"Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he pulled the pin on another grenade...
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Originally Posted By Evil_Ed: I've got the BRN-4 upper group - like the first reply, I bought a 16" upper with the intent to convert it to an "M27-ish" clone using their "M27 inspired" handguards (they're pretty easily distinguishable from the correct/HK ones, but they're close enough for people who want "close enough" for less expensive). Popped off the 16" barrel and put on the new M27 profile barrel, and found the same as the first poster - no shim with the handguard. I reached out to Brownells about it: The plastic insert, per Brownells, were only for the early run of uppers that had a wider notch for the handguard to fit into - subsequent runs of the upper (anything you'd buy today) and the notch is much tighter and to HK spec, so no longer need that shim. I think the handguard fit, IF IT FITS (*), is really tight - the wedge nut they use is IIRC the same as what HK uses (?) and it seems to retain zero really well - I've got a front sight on it now, and will probably put a DBAL on it at some point later. I took mine out to the range today, and put maybe 250-300 rounds through it while just basic zeroing the optic on it and function testing it. Mix of one mag each of 55gr and 62gr M855 (both Federal IIRC) and 2 mags of 77gr OTM (AAC) - no can on the rifle. Then I fired one magazine of again the same 55gr and 62, then a mag of 75gr BTHP (AAC), then two mags again of the same AAC 77gr OTM. I had only one problem - one specific magazine, a D&H mag, did not like feeding 77gr OTM - but simply pushing/pressing/wobbling the mag would make it feed - this one was %100 a mag issue. It might run ok in a normal AR but it didn't specifically like the BRN-4 (which IIRC has a higher feed height, compared to a standard M4). All the other mags I shot (OKay SureFeeds and other mags, I think a mix of other OKay and Center Industries) were fine, all fed well - all were using Magpul followers btw...I don't remember if they were "enhanced" followers or not though. I had one other identical D&H mag loaded with 75gr BTHP and that one fed/functioned just fine, so...maybe one singular bad mag, maybe it was specifically incompatible with the longer 77gr round...etc. No idea, but I've already marked the mag and I'll try it with regular ARs and see if it still has failures or not. IT might have even been the LRB lower that I was using that it was incompatible with, who knows. I only had those two D&H mags, all the other mags tried were either OK Surefeeds, or GI contractor mags - didn't even do any Magpuls. So it seems the GI contractor mags might be the way to fly, and to just keep an eye on D&H mags. Anyway - %100 function outside of that one specific mag. The lower had a standard carbine spring, with an H2 buffer. Ejection without the can was almost straight out - figure 3:30 or so. Ejection WITH the can was...again almost straight out - figure 2:30-2:45 or so, and sometimes straight out at 3:00 on the dot. The "self-regulating" gas block does work. I didn't get any real gas to face either...but to be fair there was a constant 10mph wind blowing from front to back, so YMMV? 95f with a billion percent humidity and stagnant air will for sure let you know if it'll gas you out or not but we're not there yet in our seasons I think I could probably safely drop down to an H buffer, maybe take some of the thump out of the recoil cycle, and not have any adverse effects. I'll try that next time I'm out. Overall - very happy. Now I need to find an HK manual to figure out maintenance cycles, since I'm not sure taking the handguard off every few hundred rounds to clean the gas system is necessary * regarding handguard fit - I also built out a 10.4" upper to go along with the M27 (figured while I was there, I may as well also "clone" the Marine 10.4" carbine upper some groups get issued with their M27). Along with that, was the "M27 inspired" 9" handguard that Brownells also makes and sells. I went through two of them and neither fit - both were way larger around the barrel nut, and would not tighten down without being able to wobble the handguard in a circle around the thing. There was no way to shim it up to prevent wobble and even if it were possible, it'd never be solid enough to mount a sight to, never mind a DBAL - it would never hold zero, or duplicate zero if it were ever removed and reattached like you'd need to do to service the gun. I am working with Brownells now, who I can only guess has found a problem with their stock of handguards...they've not yet sent me a 3rd one to test out, which tells me they're still figuring it out on their end The 11" handguard seems to be good, at least for my one example on two different barrels and barrel nuts - the 9" handguards did not fit, again across a sample size of two different uppers and barrel nuts. So, YMMV?Very cool. Have you checked out the new MR556 A4 11" Upper Receiver Kit, seems like they should be around 2k. While that is a premium over the BRN-4, its not 416 price levels. |
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Originally Posted By Evil_Ed: Hmm the only rails I see at HKParts that's anywhere near the Brownells price is their HKParts-own rail; not made by HK. Unless you bought the rail a long time ago, if it was ever cheap What drives me nuts is they don't sell the stupid little spring that retains the handguard screw...so it'll just come off and can get lost I'll give Brownells a little more time, but if they don't figure something out...MI MLok, or the HKParts rail for sure. Originally Posted By Evil_Ed: Originally Posted By rb889: I got an original 9” quad rail since it was $30 more from Hkparts, so I can’t comment on the brownells version. The HK slides on easy and locks up tight. 16” medium profile with the 9” quad is a little hefty, about the same as a 16” G-SD, maybe a smidge lighter. May end up trying the midwest mlok rail at some point, kinda enjoying the nostalgia of a VFG and quad rail, but an Iris-4 is definitely on the shopping list for this, shaving off the weight of a separate light would be nice. I’ll probably end up building out a 10.4” upper to suppress before too long. Hmm the only rails I see at HKParts that's anywhere near the Brownells price is their HKParts-own rail; not made by HK. Unless you bought the rail a long time ago, if it was ever cheap What drives me nuts is they don't sell the stupid little spring that retains the handguard screw...so it'll just come off and can get lost I'll give Brownells a little more time, but if they don't figure something out...MI MLok, or the HKParts rail for sure. HKP makes their own knockoff quad rail? Wait what the fu… Huh. One for $230, another for $420. Fuck. For a moment, I thought $200-something was awful cheap, considering the HK rail is $360 on Midwestgunparts. I thought they were MR556 and 416 kit take-offs, should’ve read the description… Gentlemen. We've Been Tricked, We've Been Backstabbed, and We've Been Quite Possibly, Bamboozled. Well, whatever. It locks up pretty solid, and if I had to guess, I’d say the HKP rail is yet another contract part made for the USMC as a domestically sourced replacement component, same as a lot of the operating components Brownells is selling. The midwest mlok is probably the most cost effective and practical, putting a lam on the quad rail is extra chunky. I don’t care too much about losing the bolt, since I don’t see a need to pull the rail off very often. I did buy the classic style crossbolt from Brownells since I didn’t know which rails came with a bolt, and kinda prefer the one that’ll work with a big flathead rather than an allen or torx, less liable to strip. I don’t see myself using the BCG to pull off the handguard in the field unless something stupid happens, but it’s a nice redundancy. |
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Originally Posted By ShaggyNuckles: Very cool. Have you checked out the new MR556 A4 11" Upper Receiver Kit, seems like they should be around 2k. While that is a premium over the BRN-4, its not 416 price levels. A little bit, but I can't get it with a chrome-lined barrel - the 10.4" BRN4 I built, does have a chrome-lined barrel. Is it truly super important? Probably not. The OTB stuff is "neat" but frankly I'm not leading or participating in water-borne assaults...and even if I were, I think I could stand to let the gun drain before engaging the enemy, so it's not a priority for me Frankly other than the fact that it's actually made by HK...it doesn't really offer me anything truly better than what I can build with Brownells parts, IMO. Now that I've shot a 16" with the self-adjusting gas block - I'm not really sure a manually adjusting gas block, with it's extra complexity, is worth the money. The barrel might be made of a different steel, but it's not chrome-lined. The rest of the upper components seem on-par to me; if anything the lack of some of the dumb "so you can't fit full auto carriers and parts into a semi-auto upper" stuff is better, to me, than all that crap on the HK. Hell the HK doesn't even have a sear cut on the upper...so if you happened to have a friend with a post sample or transferrable lower, you can't drop your HK upper on it for a few seconds of fun at the range. Maybe if/when they start making them in the US and ditch all the nanny state BS I might be a little more inclined to seriously look at one... |
"Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he pulled the pin on another grenade...
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I bought the BRN 10.4 upper - an actual HK receiver (within it), not the later replacement one; and the quad rail. Then I accessorized it with a myriad of actual HK parts including the bolt (alone that was 700$) Couldn't be happier. I got what I wanted at a fraction of the price. Not a single hiccup; not even once, suppressed or unsuppressed. Super happy - I SBR'd with a generic AR15 lower that had similar lettering for single, safety etc. ETA it's my favorite rifle. And I have many rifles.  416 Clone and Staccato C2 ACRO by Solo__, on Flickr |
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Originally Posted By rb889: HKP makes their own knockoff quad rail? Wait what the fu… Huh. One for $230, another for $420. Fuck. For a moment, I thought $200-something was awful cheap, considering the HK rail is $360 on Midwestgunparts. I thought they were MR556 and 416 kit take-offs, should’ve read the description… Gentlemen. We've Been Tricked, We've Been Backstabbed, and We've Been Quite Possibly, Bamboozled. Well, whatever. It locks up pretty solid, and if I had to guess, I’d say the HKP rail is yet another contract part made for the USMC as a domestically sourced replacement component, same as a lot of the operating components Brownells is selling. The midwest mlok is probably the most cost effective and practical, putting a lam on the quad rail is extra chunky. I don’t care too much about losing the bolt, since I don’t see a need to pull the rail off very often. I did buy the classic style crossbolt from Brownells since I didn’t know which rails came with a bolt, and kinda prefer the one that’ll work with a big flathead rather than an allen or torx, less liable to strip. I don’t see myself using the BCG to pull off the handguard in the field unless something stupid happens, but it’s a nice redundancy. Sorry to bring that to your attention Yeah, I dunno if they get theirs from the same place that makes the Brownells one, or not. HKP doesn't like being super blatant that their in-house parts aren't from HK  So you need to really read all of their item descriptions in detail if you're looking to buy HK parts specifically, and want an actual HK part vs something sourced from somewhere else. Does it really matter? Probably not unless you're going to some kind of "who has the most HK of HK Clones" contest or something like that. Or want to avoid UTG parts passed off as real HK parts...
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"Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he pulled the pin on another grenade...
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Originally Posted By Evil_Ed: A little bit, but I can't get it with a chrome-lined barrel - the 10.4" BRN4 I built, does have a chrome-lined barrel. Is it truly super important? Probably not. The OTB stuff is "neat" but frankly I'm not leading or participating in water-borne assaults...and even if I were, I think I could stand to let the gun drain before engaging the enemy, so it's not a priority for me Frankly other than the fact that it's actually made by HK...it doesn't really offer me anything truly better than what I can build with Brownells parts, IMO. Now that I've shot a 16" with the self-adjusting gas block - I'm not really sure a manually adjusting gas block, with it's extra complexity, is worth the money. The barrel might be made of a different steel, but it's not chrome-lined. The rest of the upper components seem on-par to me; if anything the lack of some of the dumb "so you can't fit full auto carriers and parts into a semi-auto upper" stuff is better, to me, than all that crap on the HK. Hell the HK doesn't even have a sear cut on the upper...so if you happened to have a friend with a post sample or transferrable lower, you can't drop your HK upper on it for a few seconds of fun at the range. Maybe if/when they start making them in the US and ditch all the nanny state BS I might be a little more inclined to seriously look at one... cool, By all accounts the BRN4 is a winner. Personally, I took a shot one LMT's Piston and it really changed my thoughts on DI vs Piston, I really like it. enought to entertain an 416 clone. Not sure I need another high end piston, but the BRN4 is intriguing at its price point. |
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Originally Posted By rb889: HKP makes their own knockoff quad rail? Wait what the fu… Huh. One for $230, another for $420. Fuck. For a moment, I thought $200-something was awful cheap, considering the HK rail is $360 on Midwestgunparts. I thought they were MR556 and 416 kit take-offs, should’ve read the description… Gentlemen. We've Been Tricked, We've Been Backstabbed, and We've Been Quite Possibly, Bamboozled. Well, whatever. It locks up pretty solid, and if I had to guess, I’d say the HKP rail is yet another contract part made for the USMC as a domestically sourced replacement component, same as a lot of the operating components Brownells is selling. The midwest mlok is probably the most cost effective and practical, putting a lam on the quad rail is extra chunky. I don’t care too much about losing the bolt, since I don’t see a need to pull the rail off very often. I did buy the classic style crossbolt from Brownells since I didn’t know which rails came with a bolt, and kinda prefer the one that’ll work with a big flathead rather than an allen or torx, less liable to strip. I don’t see myself using the BCG to pull off the handguard in the field unless something stupid happens, but it’s a nice redundancy. Yeah, HKParts has their own line of european style accesories. I got a clone B&T Mp5 Folder for my turkish mp5. Great stock, but yeah, i thought it was a OEM part at first as well. |
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B&T makes some quite excellent mlok handguards for the 416 as well. They were blowing out the original design for $150 but still have the fancier “over grip” models for $250/$300. They’re actually 416A5-pattern so they’ll work on the newer uppers (like the MR556A4) as well as the older style BRN-4 ones. My understanding is they are an approved secondary provider for the French 416 order? Dunno, but they are Swiss-made hotness. Black over grip rail for $250 Coyote over grip rail for $300 Sign up for their emails, they periodically run 15-25% off sales through the year. I’m using a Geissele Mk15 handguard on my brown 16” BRN-4 build though I did have the BT on it for a bit. I just finished a 10.4” SBR upper in black that I did use with a BT. The only downside is no built-in QD swivel but that’s a $10 problem. I’ll have to see if I can find some of my pics. |
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I saw the B&T rails, the older design with the full top rail. Wasn’t particularly interested in them because the rearmost mlok slots, where I’d mount a sling QD, weren’t actually cut out. The overgrip version looks good, though I don’t know if it would work with an Iris and my Trex-length arms. I love the look of the Geissele… But fuck if I’m dropping $400 on one of those when they’re within a couple ounces of the extra THICC quad rail that was much cheaper, and more iconic looking. |
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My G-rail has the delicate blessing of Count Blemula on the bottom so it was half off. Otherwise I’d probably still have the BT rail on that one! The 10.4 I just built was on one of the “improved” machining versions of the Brownells upper. It is a gigantic upgrade in appearance to the original one. I’ll have to see if I can get some comparison pics of that too. ETA - Almost current picture of the pair. I changed the flash hider on the brown one and replaced the forward assist on the black one yesterday. Have a slimline HK stock and non-adaptive battlegrip on backorder with HK to upgrade the black one too; took almost 4-5 months for the RAL-8000 ones to come, but beats the current "I need it now!" pricing. Attached File |
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I'm now running this setup on my 0.4 inch BRN4 upper and it is working just fine. The Griffin Armament suppressor runs really well on this upper compared to my Surefire RC-2.10.4 & Recce 5 by James H., on Flickr
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Originally Posted By jmh556: I'm now running this setup on my 0.4 inch BRN4 upper and it is working just fine. The Griffin Armament suppressor runs really well on this upper compared to my Surefire RC-2. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54351651903_f0ffca7681.jpg10.4 & Recce 5 by James H., on Flickr Very nice, I do like the idea of sleeving a suppressor with the handguard to keep from burning a hole in another set of trousers. I put a few minutes into looking at P/W a direct thread can to a 10.4” upper, couldn’t find many suppressors that the handguard could slide over. Could probably make that work and still access the back of the gas block, but it would be more of an annoyance than filing for another stamp. |
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Originally Posted By rb889: Very nice, I do like the idea of sleeving a suppressor with the handguard to keep from burning a hole in another set of trousers. I put a few minutes into looking at P/W a direct thread can to a 10.4” upper, couldn’t find many suppressors that the handguard could slide over. Could probably make that work and still access the back of the gas block, but it would be more of an annoyance than filing for another stamp. This H&K handguard will fit over my Griffin Armament Recce 5 and my Dead Air Sandman S-Mil. I could fit the Surefire RC-2 under the handguard, but I would have to take the handguard off every time I needed to move the suppressor to another gun. The Recce 5 taper mount muzzle device and Dead Air's Keymo system are optimal for this setup, but seeing the B&T rail on the gun above makes me want to get one of those and keep the muzzle exposed. |
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Right on cue, B&T sent a 10% off coupon. SAVEGREEN2025 https://bt-parts.com HKP also seems to have all four of the variants of the B&T handguards at the moment, flat $280 across the board. |
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Originally Posted By x248716x: i'd like to see Brownell's offer the BRN-4 barrels in 6ARC: chrome-lined 16" HBAR and 16" medium profile, and maybe a 20" chrome-lined 6ARC barrel. I’d kinda like to see 300blk options, though I’m not 100% certain the non-adjustable gas block would play nice with the wide variety of 300blk supers and subs. Nefarious needed to go up to an 11” barrel with the shorter 416C gas system to get it working. Then again, I don’t know if Nefarious got subs working unsuppressed, if that’s the case, the standard length gas system on the 10.4” should work fine with supers unsuppressed, but subs would require a fairly high backpressure can. Shouldn’t be an issue, most folks look for legacy designs that are optimized for sound performance for silly quiet 300 subs, anyway. @Jus_Ad_Bellum Any hints as to the odds of 300Blk, or maybe even 6ARC barrels for the BRN-4 in the reasonably near future? |
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Originally Posted By rb889: I'd kinda like to see 300blk options, though I'm not 100% certain the non-adjustable gas block would play nice with the wide variety of 300blk supers and subs. Nefarious needed to go up to an 11" barrel with the shorter 416C gas system to get it working. Then again, I don't know if Nefarious got subs working unsuppressed, if that's the case, the standard length gas system on the 10.4" should work fine with supers unsuppressed, but subs would require a fairly high backpressure can. Shouldn't be an issue, most folks look for legacy designs that are optimized for sound performance for silly quiet 300 subs, anyway. @Jus_Ad_Bellum Any hints as to the odds of 300Blk, or maybe even 6ARC barrels for the BRN-4 in the reasonably near future? |
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Originally Posted By rb889: I’d kinda like to see 300blk options, though I’m not 100% certain the non-adjustable gas block would play nice with the wide variety of 300blk supers and subs. Nefarious needed to go up to an 11” barrel with the shorter 416C gas system to get it working. Then again, I don’t know if Nefarious got subs working unsuppressed, if that’s the case, the standard length gas system on the 10.4” should work fine with supers unsuppressed, but subs would require a fairly high backpressure can. Shouldn’t be an issue, most folks look for legacy designs that are optimized for sound performance for silly quiet 300 subs, anyway. @Jus_Ad_Bellum Any hints as to the odds of 300Blk, or maybe even 6ARC barrels for the BRN-4 in the reasonably near future? it would broaden the appeal of the Brownells BRN-4 platform, similarly how the additional calibers did for the BRN-180. although, for a 6ARC product offering, Brownells would need to provide the 6.5G / 6ARC bolt head. Whereas for the 300BO, you just use the 5.56 bolt head. hmmm, maybe the commonly available AR-15 6.5G/6ARC bolt heads are compatible with the BRN-4 bolt carrier? maybe not due to the firing pin spring? I'd have to put them next to each other on the bench and eye-ball. ETA: after eye-balling on the bench, nope, not compatible, totally different. The tolerance fit between the Brownells BRN-4 carrier, and BRN-4 5.56 bolt is really snug, even with no gas rings. When I inserted the regular 6.5G/6ARC bolt, even with gas-rings, in the BRN-4 carrier, loose fit. and the back end of the BRN-4 is very different, since it doesn't have to accommodate gas function, totally cylindrical to the end. So, yes, would need a dedicated bolt-head design for BRN-4 6ARC. |
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Originally Posted By EzGoingKev: Are those set screws and if so, what purpose do they serve? |
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder: Yes they're set screws. They secure the handguard against a piece sitting on top of the barrel nut. Once they're loose you can remove the handguard, and the piece simply lifts off of the barrel nut. Originally Posted By KitBuilder: Originally Posted By EzGoingKev: Are those set screws and if so, what purpose do they serve? Yup. I quickly lost interest in the caracal after seeing how it goes together, I don’t think it’s the most trustworthy lockup for something getting a LAM, and the factory handguard seems to be the only option. Don’t know if the quad rail can be acquired, though it seems to use a similar mounting solution. It does have a fairly slim profile that doesn’t have a large protrusion beneath the barrel nut, but I’ve never had an issue with the larger/taller 416 handguards. Granted, those have their own obnoxious design quirks. |
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Originally Posted By Houriganj: Has anyone cut down brn 4 barrel? I would like an 11.5 or 12.5 inch brn 4. I was thinking of cutting down a 14.5 to about a 12 inch but was concerned about reliability issues. Anyone have any thoughts on this? That's a good question, as I have been kicking that same idea around. From what I understand from looking at Brownell's website is that the gas blocks are somehow different between the 10.4 inch upper/barrel and the 14.5/ 16 inch upper/barrel. I also wonder if the BRN-4 barrels are compatible with some of the later model HK adjustable gas blocks, which I have seen for sale on various websites. |
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Yeah HK as far as I know (which isn't much) only has specific gas blocks for the 10.4 and 14.5+ barrels - they might have another one for a 20" barrel, if they even make that? Since the BRN gas blocks are the older "self regulating" ones, I'd suggest getting a 10.4 gas block and then cutting down a longer barrel and using that...BTW the self-regulating gas blocks work really well on the BRN stuff - my 10.4 upper, ejection actually stays really really similar between when a can's on and can's off - this is with an EA Ferox, which is not quite flow-through but close enough to it - so YMMV I'm sure HK makes some one-offs for customers who order specific configurations...no idea how you'd even find those, though. |
"Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he pulled the pin on another grenade...
| What buffer system are you running? I have an A5 tube with a Geissele Super 42 rifle length spring and a BCM A3 buffer. I use a Sure fire RC-2 suppressor now since I changed out handguards to a Geissele 9.5 in 416 SMR, and my ejection on the 10.4 is roughly 2 o'clock. My 14.5 BRN-4 upper with a RC-2 mini on the same lower is about 3 o'clock. |
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Originally Posted By jmh556: That's a good question, as I have been kicking that same idea around. From what I understand from looking at Brownell's website is that the gas blocks are somehow different between the 10.4 inch upper/barrel and the 14.5/ 16 inch upper/barrel. I also wonder if the BRN-4 barrels are compatible with some of the later model HK adjustable gas blocks, which I have seen for sale on various websites. Originally Posted By jmh556: Originally Posted By Houriganj: Has anyone cut down brn 4 barrel? I would like an 11.5 or 12.5 inch brn 4. I was thinking of cutting down a 14.5 to about a 12 inch but was concerned about reliability issues. Anyone have any thoughts on this? That's a good question, as I have been kicking that same idea around. From what I understand from looking at Brownell's website is that the gas blocks are somehow different between the 10.4 inch upper/barrel and the 14.5/ 16 inch upper/barrel. I also wonder if the BRN-4 barrels are compatible with some of the later model HK adjustable gas blocks, which I have seen for sale on various websites. IIRC, brownells offers 13.7” barrels, so that’s an option for a closer start, if it isn’t close enough. Can always have the gas port opened up a nominal percentage, and try both the 14.5”/16” block and the 10.4” block to see which functions more reliably. The medium contour barrels flare outward at the muzzle device, so I’d just double check that there’s enough material to have it cut down and still have enough shoulder to work with. There were some aftermarket gas blocks, but they’re stupid expensive. Feldmutze reviewed the nefarious arms one on youtube. |
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An H buffer, normal carbine extension - nothing fancy - ejection is 3-ish without the can, maybe 2:30 or so with the can - this was with AAC 77gr if I remember right...I also went through some 62gr SS109 ADI stuff and I don't remember it feeling much different. Brass never really entered my peripheral vision when shooting. I've had a few uppers where it'd jet out straight ahead; this really isn't like that at all. I was legit surprised at how well the BRN4 handled having a can on; I've seen way too many HK 416 vids where shooting with a can and the brass is coming out at 1:00. I guess Brownells and/or their barrel vendor tightened the gas port up enough so it's not horrifically over gassed? Even more surprised that the "self regulating" gas block actually seemed to do the job correctly... |
"Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he pulled the pin on another grenade...
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Originally Posted By rb889: IIRC, brownells offers 13.7” barrels, so that’s an option for a closer start, if it isn’t close enough. Can always have the gas port opened up a nominal percentage, and try both the 14.5”/16” block and the 10.4” block to see which functions more reliably. The medium contour barrels flare outward at the muzzle device, so I’d just double check that there’s enough material to have it cut down and still have enough shoulder to work with. There were some aftermarket gas blocks, but they’re stupid expensive. Feldmutze reviewed the nefarious arms one on youtube. Brownell's hasn't had the 13.7 inch barrels in stock for a very long time, but that would be a good starting point to build out a 11.5 or 12.5 inch upper. |
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Originally Posted By Evil_Ed: An H buffer, normal carbine extension - nothing fancy - ejection is 3-ish without the can, maybe 2:30 or so with the can - this was with AAC 77gr if I remember right...I also went through some 62gr SS109 ADI stuff and I don't remember it feeling much different. Brass never really entered my peripheral vision when shooting. I've had a few uppers where it'd jet out straight ahead; this really isn't like that at all. I was legit surprised at how well the BRN4 handled having a can on; I've seen way too many HK 416 vids where shooting with a can and the brass is coming out at 1:00. I guess Brownells and/or their barrel vendor tightened the gas port up enough so it's not horrifically over gassed? Even more surprised that the "self regulating" gas block actually seemed to do the job correctly... That is pretty impressive, I may have to try and run the 10.4 on another lower with a carbine length buffer tube and an H buffer. |
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Originally Posted By jmh556: That is pretty impressive, I may have to try and run the 10.4 on another lower with a carbine length buffer tube and an H buffer. I bought H, H2 and H3 buffers with me and no one is more shocked than I that I didn't need to step it up to an H2 or H3 Obviously YMMV - your ammo might be different, Faxon might have cut the port a little bigger on yours, etc etc etc (at least I think it's Faxon making the barrels for Brownells?) Edit - also, I'm using a standard carbine spring also from Brownells - I seem to recall reading the G spring is a little softer than others? I might be misremembering things though. |
"Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he pulled the pin on another grenade...
| I had both the 10.4 and 14.5 inch guns out at the range yesterday and had my buddy shoot them so that I could actually see the ejection pattern on both of them. The 14.5 is good to go either unsuppressed and suppressed running a RC2 mini, so no worries there. I brought an extra Sprinco Green Spring and an A5H2 buffer for the 10.4 lower, since that lower had the Geissele rifle length Super 42 and an A5H3 buffer. After playing musical chairs with buffer parts, I found that the 10.4 runs best with the Geissele spring and the A5H2 buffer. Ejection was a consistent 5 o'clock unsuppressed, and around 2:30 to 3:00 with the full size RC2. I still need to try a carbine buffer setup, as I forgot to bring one of my lowers that is setup for that. |
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Originally Posted By jmh556: I had both the 10.4 and 14.5 inch guns out at the range yesterday and had my buddy shoot them so that I could actually see the ejection pattern on both of them. The 14.5 is good to go either unsuppressed and suppressed running a RC2 mini, so no worries there. I brought an extra Sprinco Green Spring and an A5H2 buffer for the 10.4 lower, since that lower had the Geissele rifle length Super 42 and an A5H3 buffer. After playing musical chairs with buffer parts, I found that the 10.4 runs best with the Geissele spring and the A5H2 buffer. Ejection was a consistent 5 o'clock unsuppressed, and around 2:30 to 3:00 with the full size RC2. I still need to try a carbine buffer setup, as I forgot to bring one of my lowers that is setup for that. How’s the gas to the face with the RC2 on the 10.4? I was honestly debating on going with a polonium if I couldn’t find a WB in stock. I also spent a few minutes searching for a 416 lower on a whim, wound up ordering a Gigliotti rifleworks since they weren’t stupid expensive and were willing to add SBR engravings. I said hell with it, might as well do a full on 416 clone. |
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Had a 10.4 BRN-4 upper and I really enjoyed it save for the gas to the face. The HK buffer helped a ton but I liked it so much I ran across an absolutely smoking deal for an MR223A3 11 inch upper that had a haus barrel with the adjustable gas block. That thing is incredible suppresses amazing and is super smooth. |
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Originally Posted By rb889: How’s the gas to the face with the RC2 on the 10.4? I was honestly debating on going with a polonium if I couldn’t find a WB in stock. I also spent a few minutes searching for a 416 lower on a whim, wound up ordering a Gigliotti rifleworks since they weren’t stupid expensive and were willing to add SBR engravings. I said hell with it, might as well do a full on 416 clone. The 10.4 is a little gassy when using the RC2, but it's not awful. I would like to try a flow thru suppressor and see how that would work with thee 10.4. |
Thoughts on the BRN-4, Brownells 416D clone? (Page 1 of 2)
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