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Posted: 6/25/2026 7:42:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: snackle][Edited]
 The Great FRT Debate What is your take? Are FRTs useful for home defense and other purposes? In my experience, yes. I can put 3 rounds into an A zone much much faster and easier with an FRT than I can without. This advantage gets much better if there are more targets than one, out to 35 yards. I can also put 2 rounds into a target at 200 yards supported, so I think the advantage is durable over range, and persistent, so long as you don't just lay on the trigger. The good news is that shooting FRTs teaches you this pretty quick. Also, breaks and cans are quite helpful. This experience helped me realize how awesome shotguns are. Really easy to keep 8 shots in a target out to 25 yards, and no worries about explaining your rate-of-fire trigger to the law. Turns out the military of every country int he world aren't a bunch of morons for adopting full auto - seems like they have some idea what they are doing. |
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I would not want to be in court for a self defense shooting wherein I used an FRT. I think the potential for a prosecutor (or a lawyer, in a civil suit) to turn that fact on you is pretty high. I would not use one for HD or SD. Not that I disagree with your points above, in principle. But in the legal realm I think it could be bad news. |
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Originally Posted By JKinAZ: I would not want to be in court for a self defense shooting wherein I used an FRT. I think the potential for a prosecutor (or a lawyer, in a civil suit) to turn that fact on you is pretty high. I would not use one for HD or SD. Not that I disagree with your points above, in principle. But in the legal realm I think it could be bad news. Of course they would disassemble his gun and determine that it had an FRT in it anyway. 
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No rules today, sport…just orders.
It’s not about how many people you kill, it’s about how many you save.
No rules today, sport…just orders.
It’s not about how many people you kill, it’s about how many you save.
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Originally Posted By snackle: What is your take? Are FRTs useful for home defense and other purposes? A good way to help test would be to be allow FRTs in competition and then compare times of FRT shooters to non-FRT shooters. Unfortunately there's not much chance to do that. Most matches either run a ruleset which precludes using FRTs: USPSA, PCSL (other than level 0), and every multigun ruleset I've ever seen; or they're specifically machinegun matches which don't allow FRTs, or they're specifically machinegun matches which don't allow using normal semi-auto. |
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Originally Posted By CleverNickname: A good way to help test would be to be allow FRTs in competition and then compare times of FRT shooters to non-FRT shooters. Unfortunately there's not much chance to do that. Most matches either run a ruleset which precludes using FRTs: USPSA, PCSL (other than level 0), and every multigun ruleset I've ever seen; or they're specifically machinegun matches which don't allow FRTs, or they're specifically machinegun matches which don't allow using normal semi-auto. All my club’s Multigun matches allow FRTs. They don’t win but they are fun. |
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I feel like I lost brain cells listening to just part of that. I'm completely indifferent as to what the internet consensus is. Yes, they're useful. I have them in all my main rifles at this point. Some that would be used for HD. I train with the rifles I use for HD, and the rifles I train with have FRT. It's as simple as that. Should it be necessary, I'm not particularly concerned with a legal act of self-defense being less defensible because of FRT. There was a time when people debated that "silencers" would make you more vulnerable to prosecution. If required to defend myself, I'll use what is most effective and happens to be at hand. It'll go how it goes. As far as being useful, FRT/FA is as controllable as rapid semi-auto with 2-3rd bursts. I rarely 'mag dump' -- that doesn't have a great amount of appeal to me. It's a waste of ammo that could be used to improve actual skills. FRT is not a requirement by any means, but I like the capability, and most of my training is now with short FRT bursts. Basically, I shoot the same way as I did prior to FRT with an S3G in semi. Only now, it's faster. |
Practice, the master of all things. - Augustus
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I've decided to leave one out of my home defense rifle, simply because I don't want to be the test case. Using an FRT absolutely should not have any bearing on the validity of a self defense claim, but I'm not going to do it. My truck rifle has one though, along with 90% of my other ARs. |
It was not preached to the crowd,
It was not taught by the State.
No man spoke it aloud,
When the English began to hate.
It was not taught by the State.
No man spoke it aloud,
When the English began to hate.
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Originally Posted By ELittlefield: I've decided to leave one out of my home defense rifle, simply because I don't want to be the test case. Using an FRT absolutely should not have any bearing on the validity of a self defense claim, but I'm not going to do it. My truck rifle has one though, along with 90% of my other ARs. Yeah My 6mm arc and the 338 arc pistol I built for my son to hunt with have the Q triggers i pulled out of the boombox and honey badger sd. Everything else is fast. |
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The Gary Fadden case was the test case. All the way back in 1984. Justifiable self defense doesn't become unjustifiable due to using a FRT. Even if FRTs were illegal, the justifiablity of the self defense is a separate issue, and any attorney worth his salt would make sure they were adjudicated separately. This is simply modern fudd lore. Use what you want, and don't shoot what doesn't need shot. |
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Originally Posted By ELittlefield: I've decided to leave one out of my home defense rifle, simply because I don't want to be the test case. Using an FRT absolutely should not have any bearing on the validity of a self defense claim, but I'm not going to do it. My truck rifle has one though, along with 90% of my other ARs. You're probably more likely to end up using the truck gun than the home defense gun, unless you live in a nasty part of town. |
| https://www.usacarry.com/is-full-auto-overrated/ meh not saying I agree |
| https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/FRTs-for-self-defense-rifles-or-fun-guns-only-/5-2849190/ |
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They are illegal in VA. If not, I would have one. Recently, I had two guys come to my house to buy a truck. After test drive, we made the deal and exchanged money and title. But they got in the two vehicles and didn’t leave. They sat there talking. They had already put their tags on and didn't seem to be troubleshooting any kind of mechanical issue/questions. Just sat there, getting out of truck and both sitting in car and rummaging in car they came in for about 20 minutes. This is a farm. There is nobody here but me. Spidey sense was not ringing but logic said it weren’t normal. So, I had a 300 with suppressor and subs and Sat inside waiting it out. And they left. Probably talking about the way they would drive home. But I never once thought about what would look good in court. I thought “what gives me a tactical advantage and helps me alive till tomorrow? “. You only get to defend your choices if you were successful in defending your life. |
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Originally Posted By WoodChuckDad: They are illegal in VA. If not, I would have one. Recently, I had two guys come to my house to buy a truck. After test drive, we made the deal and exchanged money and title. But they got in the two vehicles and didn’t leave. They sat there talking. They had already put their tags on and didn't seem to be troubleshooting any kind of mechanical issue/questions. Just sat there, getting out of truck and both sitting in car and rummaging in car they came in for about 20 minutes. This is a farm. There is nobody here but me. Spidey sense was not ringing but logic said it weren’t normal. So, I had a 300 with suppressor and subs and Sat inside waiting it out. And they left. Probably talking about the way they would drive home. But I never once thought about what would look good in court. I thought “what gives me a tactical advantage and helps me alive till tomorrow? “. You only get to defend your choices if you were successful in defending your life. I'm going to steal that line.... |
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Originally Posted By HKPDW: And look what it got him, a $200,000 legal bill. “That’s a bold strategy, Cotton”… Point being that the precedent has been set. You cannot be prosecuted for using a particular type of weapon if the facts merit justifiable self defense. You should look into the case and the jury's findings. It's good info. |
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Originally Posted By HKPDW: Of course they’re useful. Of course they can get you 30 years in ass pounding prison if you pop someone using it… Prosecutor: “Mr. ARFCOMER purposely modified the weapon to make it more dangerous”. Maybe in Salt Lake, not in Box Elder county... |
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Originally Posted By georgeib: Point being that the precedent has been set. You cannot be prosecuted for using a particular type of weapon if the facts merit justifiable self defense. You should look into the case and the jury's findings. It's good info. Originally Posted By georgeib: Originally Posted By HKPDW: And look what it got him, a $200,000 legal bill. “That’s a bold strategy, Cotton”… Point being that the precedent has been set. You cannot be prosecuted for using a particular type of weapon if the facts merit justifiable self defense. You should look into the case and the jury's findings. It's good info. Trial courts don't set precedents. Appeals courts do - for the geographic area of the appeal court. This is why split circuit decisions are more likely to go to the Supremes. |
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