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Posted: 1/11/2021 9:45:12 AM EST
I'm running an unsuppressed 11.5", 0.070" gas port, 5.56 DI upper with an H2 buffer and standard carbine spring.  

Runs fine as is but I am looking into options that will help smooth out recoil and enhance reliability before I suppress it.  I feel like most of the "enhanced" buffer products on the market are solutions looking for problems, but being that I have never run a non-standard buffer I wanted to hear what your experiences with some of the options and if any are worth messing with.  Now, I know enough about physics to understand that I am not going to eliminate actual recoil here, but what can be accomplished is a reduction of felt recoil by modifying the impulse.

Here are the qualities I'm looking for in descending order of importance:

  1. Enhanced reliability

  2. Felt recoil mitigation

  3. Enhanced accuracy

  4. Sound reduction

  5. Adjustability

  6. Cost


Anything I run with would need to be compatible with the standard carbine receiver extension. I also prefer that the system has easily adjustable weights.
Link Posted: 1/11/2021 9:49:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2021 9:50:11 AM EST by Dripseek]
Just to go over what I have seen, the major options on the market currently are:


Captive systems:

JP Silent Buffer - I've heard several complaints of light primer strikes and issues with bolt bounce. Just looking at these, it appears that the weights are captive and therefore cannot reduce the bolt bounce as a standard buffer would.  Its also very expensive, which isn't a problem if the product provides a significant improvement in several areas.  My questions here are: how reliable are these, how much quieter are they vs standard components, how long do the springs last?  Seems like this product is a great way to drop $200 on making your rifle less reliable so that you don't have to listen to that "SPRONG" noise for 1 second after a shot.

Armaspec Stealth - Hard no, Armaspec products are absolutely garbage.
Link Posted: 1/11/2021 9:49:50 AM EST
"Enhanced" Buffer Bodies:

DPM Recoil Reducing Buffer - This option is outrageously priced.  It seems rugged enough to suggest that it wouldn't reduce reliability. It better have industry leading recoil characteristics to justify the price.  Anyone run these?

ADM Reliability Enhancing HD Buffer - This one looks interesting but I haven't found any reports of performance from the field. Does this actually reduce bolt bouce or felt recoil?

Kyntec Hydraulic - Seems like these may soften the recoil impulse but at the expense of adding unnecessary complexity and the inevitable failure of the hydraulic chamber.  If I was running FA and required rate reduction, I could see this as a solid contender but outside of that scenario I see little utility.  Do these have any realistic benefit on a suppressed SA?

Spikes Tungsten - The powdered tungsten makes a lot of sense here, much like a deadblow hammer dull of shot is very effective at reducing restrikes with a hammer, I assume this does help with bolt bounce and in as much can enhance reliability.  As far as reducing felt recoil, I doubt one could tell any difference.  Are these significantly better than standard heavy buffers?

Heavybuffers Anti-Tilt - I can see why this would be desirable for a piston gun.  The greater repeatability of carrier positioning may have some minor impact on accuracy on a DI gun, but I doubt that it could net improvements that are even measureable.

Jones Energy Absorbing Bumper - These are cheap and it seems like they may actually modify the recoil impulse in a way that would reduce felt recoil.  I have heard mixed reviews in general.  Experiences?

VLTOR A5 - From my understanding this system requires a longer proprietary buffer tube.  So that excludes this system unless there are configuration options I have overlooked.


Link Posted: 1/11/2021 9:50:54 AM EST
"Enhanced" Springs:

Tubb Flat - I have heard an awful lot of praise for these.  So much so that it makes me suspicious, especially because everyone who raves about them talks about how great charging feels, which I care very little about.  Are there any gains in reliability, recoil or sound here?

Geissele 42 - This system seems to be built on a foundation of solid theory and braided springs were a huge technological leap for heavy FA guns, but do those gains translate over to a light SA gun?  This is another product that I have heard enough fanboying about that I suspect hyperbole.  I also hear that because they are a smaller inner diameter, they only work with Geissele buffers, which doesn't particularly excite me.

LaRue Super Duty - Are these just expensive standard springs?  I am not a mechanic engineer so I can't say that chrome silicon springs are better for some reason or another.

Springco White, Blue and Red - These seem like solid tuning options and I am leaning this way.  Nothing fancy, just quality springs with selectable weights. What model would you guys recommend starting with for my setup?


What hotness have I missed here?  What are you guys running that really has marked improvement over the standard buffer and isn't a gimmick?  Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 1/11/2021 10:12:16 AM EST
LARB Buffer.
Link Posted: 1/11/2021 10:23:13 AM EST
Looking into these now, thanks.
Link Posted: 1/11/2021 10:30:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2021 10:48:53 AM EST by ahrion]
You missed Omni Robusta Magnetic Buffer, Shooting Innovations buffer, Taccom ultralightweight buffer, DSA bufferloc sustem, Taccom 3 stage buffer, Cozad Manufacturing buffer. You also missed Strike Industries flatwire spring, guntec flatwire spring, and damage industries buffer spring.

Tubbs is quiet because they're a more "flat fit" and less likely to be coiled and touching the buffer tube. Tubbs has a special coating, so when you apply grease, the spring sound is almost completely eliminated. Strike industries has a similar spring, but it has a noteable sproing sound in comparison. While still better than stock, it pales in comparison to Tubbs. Strike industries has less load/preload than Tubbs.

Strike AR15 - 17-7 PH cryogenically treated
Tubbs AR15 - 17-7 PH coated (not sure what coating)
Strike A10 - Chrome silicon cryogenically treated.
Tubbs AR10 - 17-7 PH coated (not sure what coating)
Link Posted: 1/11/2021 11:23:06 AM EST
Great info, I'll definitely check these out too.  Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/11/2021 2:08:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2021 2:50:33 PM EST by ahrion]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dripseek:
Great info, I'll definitely check these out too.  Thanks!
View Quote

MGI rate reducing buffer
Trinity force silent buffer assembly
CTS aktiv buffer
JE machine tech silent recoil spring system
Link Posted: 1/11/2021 2:41:35 PM EST
I've got two rifles with the JP SCS, and they've been flawless so I don't know what you're talking about as it's been the opposites of what you posted.
Link Posted: 1/11/2021 2:55:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Grey_Man:
LARB Buffer.
View Quote


And Sprinco blue
Link Posted: 1/11/2021 4:29:27 PM EST
I've tried H2's and the JP SCS but nothing compares to the Blitzkrieg Hydraulic.

BTW, the JP weights are loose so act as a dead blow.
Link Posted: 1/11/2021 9:40:40 PM EST
I built a 13.7 and went with the A5 system and it’s the tits. I’ve got a 16” with a standard buffer and the 13.7 shoots much softer and stays on target. Both guns have comps. 13.7 has the solgw nox and the 16” has a Troy.

The BCM intermediate tube is what I used.
Link Posted: 1/11/2021 11:51:25 PM EST
You left out Damage Industries in your "enhanced" discussion. Great addition for the price.

https://damageindustriesllc.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=62_83&product_id=409

Link Posted: 1/12/2021 2:21:31 AM EST
@amphibian has done a lot of testing on this subject.  I recommend you read through his website which he has documented all hai testing of various setups.

http://www.c3junkie.com/?page_id=164

Within your stated parameters, I'd choose a tubbs or strike flatwire spring with the kynshot hydraulic carbine buffer or a good ol H2.


I personally use the A5 extension, Rb5007 and a strike flatwire...super smooth and reliably locks back with Barnaul steel cased ammo I have (weakest stuff in my inventory).
Link Posted: 1/12/2021 3:30:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/12/2021 3:33:36 AM EST by Dripseek]
@jonny1904 - I wasn't trying to insult anyones choices in buffer components, I have just heard several people in person and online say they had problems with the JP system.  Now, whether those people understand what they are doing is definitely up for debate, which is why I mentioned it.  I see that the weights are indeed non-captive, which definitely makes more sense.  I have never seen nor held a JP system and from observation of pictures I got the wrong impression of how the weights are held. How long do the JP springs last compared to a standard buffer spring?
Link Posted: 1/12/2021 5:58:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/12/2021 6:14:46 AM EST by amphibian]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dripseek:
"Enhanced" Springs:

Tubb Flat - I have heard an awful lot of praise for these.  So much so that it makes me suspicious, especially because everyone who raves about them talks about how great charging feels, which I care very little about.  Are there any gains in reliability, recoil or sound here?
View Quote
Read this: http://www.c3junkie.com/?page_id=977
I've never posted about charging or how it feels as I don't care about that either.  Yes, it is more reliable and softer shooting.  I explain and quantify that in full auto cyclic rate testing at the link above.
Basically if you just swap your buffer spring out from standard to a Tubb flat spring, you will reap the benefits of the A5 without changing to the A5 tube...again, I'm not knocking the A5.  Read my link above for all the details.
Link Posted: 1/12/2021 6:11:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/12/2021 8:03:18 AM EST by amphibian]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By icura:

Within your stated parameters, I'd choose a tubbs or strike flatwire spring with the kynshot hydraulic carbine buffer or a good ol H2.
View Quote
+1.  I'm a fan of the Kynshot Hydraulic's....specifically the RB5005 (carbine length) and RB5007 (A5 length).
They make other variants that are stiffer but I don't like them...all documented here: http://www.c3junkie.com/?page_id=325

I have also tried the Cozad and the Omni Robusta and neither work in full auto which is a deal breaker for me.

I have tested so many buffers and boiled it down to the Kynshot hydraulics #1 then just go to an H1 or H2.  As mentioned in the other link I posted above, I run everything in full auto with various calibers/configurations and have never had the Kynshots leak but have had the head fall off and each time they have sent me replacements with improvements to correct the failure.  So far, the latest versions have not failed me.  I would stick with an H1 or H2 if you want no concerns of anything failing.  
But for me, I find the difference clearly noticeable and worth it.

I was at the range this past weekend with a friend that is relatively new to guns and got his first AR's and he brought his brother alone that is even more green.
He got a 16" mid and a 7.5" pistol.  Both came with H buffers.  
We swapped both with Tubb flat springs and they were both amazed at the difference.  
Then we swapped both with RB5005 and both noticed the difference in softness / felt recoil. One of them thought we changed to weaker ammo.

I noticed you are in FL also.  Where do you shoot?
Link Posted: 1/12/2021 6:29:47 AM EST
Great suggestions all around  I appriciate hearing from all you guys.

@amphibian PM INC
Link Posted: 1/12/2021 6:14:43 PM EST
Get an H3 and call it a day.

I use standard buffers and springs in every AR-15 rifle I own. I am prejudiced a little because I have always been able to adjust each rifle to run 100% without resorting to aftermarket "fluff".

Carbine gassed rifles need heavy buffers. There is no getting around this. They vent too much gas too quickly in the cycle and you're yanking hot cases under pressure out of the chamber before they want to come.

Nothing can be done about noise except doubling up your hearing protection.  

You are running an H2 now, try an H3. If it runs 100% in cold weather I say keep running it.

Link Posted: 1/16/2021 2:12:08 PM EST
Only posting to add one thing.  They make BCG's that mitigate gas, increase reliability, etc. - one being the LMT enhanced bolt.

I had the experience of having a Geissele 42 spring with a LMT Enhanced BCG and found that it was "over engineered" almost and would not reliability feed.  When I switched either out for a normal version, it worked like a typewriter.

I did notice that it worked with an A5 vltor set-up as well.

The point being, you may want to just do one or the other until you get your suppressor and can see how it runs with the change.
Link Posted: 1/17/2021 8:06:49 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By icura:
@amphibian has done a lot of testing on this subject.  I recommend you read through his website which he has documented all hai testing of various setups.

http://www.c3junkie.com/?page_id=164
View Quote


Excellent.  Research time with my morning coffee (Peets Major Dickasons, since you asked)
Link Posted: 1/17/2021 12:01:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/17/2021 12:01:59 PM EST by badkarmaiii]
Never got really popular, but the Innovative Arms W.A.R. Upper has worked fantastic with every build I've put together with one.
My 10.5" 5.56 has seen a lot of full auto use and only failed me once.
A teenage girl, about 6' tall and 90lbs, was shooting it while holding it very loosely.
This was with a carbine buffer and spring, probably PSA.
I swapped in an H2, retuned the AGB for it and no more issues for her.
The thing ran the same, with or without can, with the flip of the KillSwitch.
Wish I had that switch on all of them.
The suppressed setting port can even be enlarged for other caliber and can combinations that need more gas when in the suppressed setting.
On my 458 and 6.5 I use a Bootleg adjustable carrier.
Sorry it's not the answer you're looking for.
OTOH, I have L.A.R.B.s with Tungsten weights that are great, especially the ones with Titanium bodies.
I also put L.A.R.B. bumpers on almost all of my buffers and the difference can definitely be felt.
Link Posted: 1/17/2021 2:41:03 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By badkarmaiii:
Never got really popular, but the Innovative Arms W.A.R. Upper has worked fantastic with every build I've put together with one.
My 10.5" 5.56 has seen a lot of full auto use and only failed me once.
A teenage girl, about 6' tall and 90lbs, was shooting it while holding it very loosely.
This was with a carbine buffer and spring, probably PSA.
I swapped in an H2, retuned the AGB for it and no more issues for her.
The thing ran the same, with or without can, with the flip of the KillSwitch.
Wish I had that switch on all of them.
The suppressed setting port can even be enlarged for other caliber and can combinations that need more gas when in the suppressed setting.
On my 458 and 6.5 I use a Bootleg adjustable carrier.
Sorry it's not the answer you're looking for.
OTOH, I have L.A.R.B.s with Tungsten weights that are great, especially the ones with Titanium bodies.
I also put L.A.R.B. bumpers on almost all of my buffers and the difference can definitely be felt.
View Quote

Kind of sad I didn't get the titanium ones when they were out. When I picked up my LARB at the owner's home, he told me it was a limited run.

I told him he needs to make more.
Link Posted: 1/19/2021 12:14:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ahrion:

Kind of sad I didn't get the titanium ones when they were out. When I picked up my LARB at the owner's home, he told me it was a limited run.

I told him he needs to make more.
View Quote


Luckily, I got two of the 11 he made.
One of mine was sent to Ft. Chaffee for T&E but I'll probably never see it again as it's been 3 years. Lol.
Link Posted: 1/19/2021 1:34:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dripseek:


VLTOR A5 - From my understanding this system requires a longer proprietary buffer tube.  So that excludes this system unless there are configuration options I have overlooked.


View Quote


I think you are leaving out the only "real" improvement on a carbine buffer system. The longer buffer tube, longer buffer, and longer spring are all real deal improvements. Including significant testing.

I've got one waiting for install now, just trying to figure out which rifle to put it on. I've got 2 S42 guns that run great already.

https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/vltor-a5-buffer-system-overview/
Link Posted: 1/19/2021 3:13:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheGrayGhost:
Only posting to add one thing.  They make BCG's that mitigate gas, increase reliability, etc. - one being the LMT enhanced bolt.

I had the experience of having a Geissele 42 spring with a LMT Enhanced BCG and found that it was "over engineered" almost and would not reliability feed.  When I switched either out for a normal version, it worked like a typewriter.

I did notice that it worked with an A5 vltor set-up as well.

The point being, you may want to just do one or the other until you get your suppressor and can see how it runs with the change.
View Quote


I definitely agree with changing only one variable at at time and then evaluating performance.  Also, it’s really interesting to hear all the different experiences with the LMT E-BCG.  I’ve got one that I tossed in a 10.5” Pistol with a super 42 & H1. It runs awesome. Both quiet and loud.  It also ran great in a 16” rifle that also had a super 42 and H1.  I guess Ymmv.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 2:01:38 AM EST
Preference for adjust'd gas block, sprinco springs/stock ones, cheaper carbine buffers.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 7:06:00 AM EST
I have a DD mk18 upper, couple years old with the tighter gas port. Running a H2 with the Tubbs spring and SOLGW bcg. I mention the bcg being the efficiency of the package adds up, tight gas block, gas tube, bcg etc make a difference.

Anyways, this is the smoothest gun I’ve ever run. It runs smoother than my DD M4V7 which has a rather small gas port compared to most in the industry, and is relatively smooth. Also runs awesome with a suppressor, very little gas back to the user and the brass pattern only shifts slightly (turbo k). I feel the Tubbs spring is what’s bringing this package together for the most part. Need to order more for rest of my ARs.
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