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Red Dot Parallax Test Results (Page 4 of 4)
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Originally Posted By PA_Mike:
@dopushups I like this a lot, but it's disappointing to me to see that the Primary Arms optic chosen is really super old. I'm on year 3 here and MD-05 was discontinued long before I was even hired. If you plan on updating this test, please email me at [email protected], lets see about getting you one of the new lifetime warranty units. For better or for worse, no matter what the results are, I would at least like to see a current product represented. I most likely won't be running this test formally again, because it was extremely time consuming and took a significant time away from my normal business. I can say that I have had numerous Primary Arms optics show up at my TRF course and haven't seen any issues that would necessitate me designating it as a piece of equipment that would be inappropriate for it. Only one optic model met that bar. I have and did mention in the report that the results do not necessarily correlate to actual performance because it did not measure many other variables. Chief among those is at what degree of angular viewing does deviation occur at and to what degree. This was mainly due to the fact that the controls necessary to conduct that measurement would mean that the lay user would either be unable to replicate the test protocols (which was a primary goal), or it would be so cumbersome that it would limit remote participation. I would like to see a bit more truth in advertising with ALL manufacturers with regards to parallax, as there wasn't one single manufacturer's optic that reflected their parallax claims. |
Owner/ Instructor of Green Eye Tactical. Tier 1 Training, Tailored to your Needs
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I would like to see a bit more truth in advertising in general. I try to be as honest and transparent as I can in this forum and elsewhere. There is some janky crap that goes on in this industry and I think it's shortsighted. There's also a LOT of assuming that the customer won't bother to educate themselves on what they are buying. "Nobody even knows what exit pupil and parallax really is, they just buy whatever their friends have or what looks cool on their rifle." Well then, educate your customer instead of lying to them. Help them make a smarter decision. We don't pretend our red dots are Aimpoints-- we also don't charge $600 for them either. And we don't go around saying "ours is just as good". @everready, I might just do that, I have the new red dot on an Ultimak mount on my AK. Don't see any reason I can't try it myself, unscientifically at least. |
Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Originally Posted By PA_Mike:
I would like to see a bit more truth in advertising in general. I try to be as honest and transparent as I can in this forum and elsewhere. There is some janky crap that goes on in this industry and I think it's shortsighted. There's also a LOT of assuming that the customer won't bother to educate themselves on what they are buying. "Nobody even knows what exit pupil and parallax really is, they just buy whatever their friends have or what looks cool on their rifle." Well then, educate your customer instead of lying to them. Help them make a smarter decision. We don't pretend our red dots are Aimpoints-- we also don't charge $600 for them either. And we don't go around saying "ours is just as good". |
Owner/ Instructor of Green Eye Tactical. Tier 1 Training, Tailored to your Needs
| I found the dropbox link and saved the printable target... geez that sucker is huge. What do you recommend to print it out, go to a large format printer place like Kinkos or Office Depot? If they print at 100% will it correspond to 1 inch squares? |
Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Originally Posted By PA_Mike:
I found the dropbox link and saved the printable target... geez that sucker is huge. What do you recommend to print it out, go to a large format printer place like Kinkos or Office Depot? If they print at 100% will it correspond to 1 inch squares? |
Owner/ Instructor of Green Eye Tactical. Tier 1 Training, Tailored to your Needs
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Originally Posted By PA_Mike:
Had to mess with it in photoshop to get it perfect, but yay! Next: Pseudoscience! LOL |
Owner/ Instructor of Green Eye Tactical. Tier 1 Training, Tailored to your Needs
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I own a lot of the RDS listed in this test and personally have never experienced any problems, however, I use the red dot after zeroing it at 200 yards. I co-witness the red dot with my irons when obtaining my zero. This adds an extra level of alignment visually and recoil wise when shooting the rifle. For what it's worth I think RDS zeroes are more user restricted, meaning my zero with my RDS may not be useable by you. You may have to adjust it to fit your facial dimensions. My nephew fired 20 rounds at 200 yards with one of my rifles and completely missed the backstop. I can hold ten ring on a NRA Target at that range using this rifle. He's a Designated Marksman in an Air Assault team just returning from Afghanistan. So he's not the problem. Centering your eye in the RDS viewing window is critical to superior accuracy. |
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Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
I own a lot of the RDS listed in this test and personally have never experienced any problems, however, I use the red dot after zeroing it at 200 yards. I co-witness the red dot with my irons when obtaining my zero. This adds an extra level of alignment visually and recoil wise when shooting the rifle. For what it's worth I think RDS zeroes are more user restricted, meaning my zero with my RDS may not be useable by you. You may have to adjust it to fit your facial dimensions. My nephew fired 20 rounds at 200 yards with one of my rifles and completely missed the backstop. I can hold ten ring on a NRA Target at that range using this rifle. He's a Designated Marksman in an Air Assault team just returning from Afghanistan. So he's not the problem. Centering your eye in the RDS viewing window is critical to superior accuracy. |
Owner/ Instructor of Green Eye Tactical. Tier 1 Training, Tailored to your Needs
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Wonder how the Comp M5 will fare?
When I got my first T-2 everyone told me I was wasting money, get an H-2/T-1. Glad I didn't listen. I had seen this before but didn't know there was a post here about it. I only own two optics on this list, T-2 and EXPS3-0 but plan on adding an M5 soon. |
Go to your safe place.
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Originally Posted By 762AR25:
Wonder how the Comp M5 will fare? When I got my first T-2 everyone told me I was wasting money, get an H-2/T-1. Glad I didn't listen. I had seen this before but didn't know there was a post here about it. I only own two optics on this list, T-2 and EXPS3-0 but plan on adding an M5 soon. |
Owner/ Instructor of Green Eye Tactical. Tier 1 Training, Tailored to your Needs
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Originally Posted By dopushups: The T-2 is a really good optic. The adjustment knob isn't my favorite and I kept an M4 or two around for a while before finally giving in and going all-micro. The M5 is appealing because it is bringing what I liked about the M4 to a T-2 sized package. |
Go to your safe place.
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Originally Posted By dopushups: Thanks, this thread could easily be derailed by discussions as to zeros and effects. The subject here is the measured effect of red dot deviation as it occurs with misalignment. If you have a number of the optics tested, it would be useful for you to repeat the protocols listed on the first page of this thread. The forms and calibration targets are downloadable. At that point you could post your results and present whether they align with the results or your results are different. My background is 35 years in NRA across the course tournaments. It seems counter to everything I have ever learned about shooting well to intentionally get sideways behind a scope or irons. Repeatability is the key to excellent accuracy and not centering the red dot as close to the viewing window's center is counter productive IMO. |
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Originally Posted By borderpatrol: I think the misalignment is the cause of the problem. Why not keep the red dot centered in the scope body when using it? My background is 35 years in NRA across the course tournaments. It seems counter to everything I have ever learned about shooting well to intentionally get sideways behind a scope or irons. Repeatability is the key to excellent accuracy and not centering the red dot as close to the viewing window's center is counter productive IMO. |
Owner/ Instructor of Green Eye Tactical. Tier 1 Training, Tailored to your Needs
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Thought we knew this already? I always had to get an Aimpoint half cntered to get good hits . Thats why I was a devout Eotech user. But Ive always dropped down to cowitness with irons at distance to make hits with either.
Astigmatism forced me to leave the Eotech and go MRO the one I test drove couldnt have had 6MOA of drift I will have to test my two. |
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Originally Posted By dopushups:
The T-2 is a really good optic. Originally Posted By dopushups:
Originally Posted By 762AR25:
Wonder how the Comp M5 will fare? When I got my first T-2 everyone told me I was wasting money, get an H-2/T-1. Glad I didn't listen. I had seen this before but didn't know there was a post here about it. I only own two optics on this list, T-2 and EXPS3-0 but plan on adding an M5 soon. |
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Loved this study, I only wish there was MOAR. I'd love to see how the Vortex UH-1, Trijicon MRO Patrol, Trijicon RMR, Aimpoint M5, Aimpoint ACRO P-1, Meprolight, Holosun, Sig, Primary Arms, etc...
This study has really made me rethink my priorities when buying an RDS. |
...they'll have made themselves a part of something, and they can talk about what they do. And what am I going to say? "I killed the president of Paraguay with a fork. How have you been?"
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Originally Posted By utahvarminter:
Loved this study, I only wish there was MOAR. I'd love to see how the Vortex UH-1, Trijicon MRO Patrol, Trijicon RMR, Aimpoint M5, Aimpoint ACRO P-1, Meprolight, Holosun, Sig, Primary Arms, etc... This study has really made me rethink my priorities when buying an RDS. The M5 wasn’t out at the time of study. I would be curious if the additional front objective lens protector creates any distortion |
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Originally Posted By thehun06:
True. Here is the snippet from their site: Does the MRO® have any parallax? Like all reflex-style optics, the Trijicon MRO is parallax-free when the dot and target are reasonably well centered in the optic's field-of-view, but when the reticle and target are substantially off-axis, there will be some parallax. The off-axis parallax performance of the MRO meets or exceeds that of other reflex sights of similar size. |
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For what it's worth I'm continuing to see the new model eotechs produced 2023-2025 demonstrate behavior consistent with thermal drift that doesn't return back to the original zero. Those guys reverify zero every two months and it's usually a 5-6 inch variation at 50 yards from where they were last time. Meanwhile Aimpoints continue with no adjustment needed. |
Red Dot Parallax Test Results (Page 4 of 4)
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