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RIBZ - - Revised Improved Battlesight Zero (Page 5 of 11)
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When using this sighting method, you may find that once you have set your 100 yard zero, the top of the base of the front sight post is now slightly above the top of the well in the front sight base. If this happens, the “0.040” taller” front sight post from Bushmaster provides a quick and inexpensive fix.
I just went out and re-zeroed my Matech buis on the 200m setting from the 50y line, and I now have the exact problem quoted above....Catch is, this is a Bushmaster barrel, and I assume I already have the taller post......I havent measured, as I dont have a dial caliper to properly measure it...... So I want to find a taller post, but none of the e-tailers list the height on their websites....They only list width.....So can anyone help me out and point me to a post thats taller than the Bushy?? Thanks |
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Originally Posted By Herrin811:
When using this sighting method, you may find that once you have set your 100 yard zero, the top of the base of the front sight post is now slightly above the top of the well in the front sight base. If this happens, the “0.040” taller” front sight post from Bushmaster provides a quick and inexpensive fix.
http://www.box.net/shared/static/kc9mgqaqvm.jpg]http://www.box.net/shared/static/kc9mgqaqvm.jpg]http://www.box.net/shared/static/kc9mgqaqvm.jpg I just went out and re-zeroed my Matech buis on the 200m setting from the 50y line, and I now have the exact problem quoted above....Catch is, this is a Bushmaster barrel, and I assume I already have the taller post......I havent measured, as I dont have a dial caliper to properly measure it...... So I want to find a taller post, but none of the e-tailers list the height on their websites....They only list width.....So can anyone help me out and point me to a post thats taller than the Bushy?? Thanks You know what happens when we assume. 
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Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Herrin811:
When using this sighting method, you may find that once you have set your 100 yard zero, the top of the base of the front sight post is now slightly above the top of the well in the front sight base. If this happens, the “0.040” taller” front sight post from Bushmaster provides a quick and inexpensive fix.
http://www.box.net/shared/static/kc9mgqaqvm.jpg]http://www.box.net/shared/static/kc9mgqaqvm.jpg]http://www.box.net/shared/static/kc9mgqaqvm.jpg I just went out and re-zeroed my Matech buis on the 200m setting from the 50y line, and I now have the exact problem quoted above....Catch is, this is a Bushmaster barrel, and I assume I already have the taller post......I havent measured, as I dont have a dial caliper to properly measure it...... So I want to find a taller post, but none of the e-tailers list the height on their websites....They only list width.....So can anyone help me out and point me to a post thats taller than the Bushy?? Thanks You know what happens when we assume. Yep (italics)...I started out hitting like a foot high from the 50  but I kept backing the post out....Now im in the 10 ring from 50 (lollipop). Think I backed it out 3 full turns, and now its sticking up and I can actually wiggle it......Just too high and loose to feel comfortable with......
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Originally Posted By Herrin811:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Herrin811:
When using this sighting method, you may find that once you have set your 100 yard zero, the top of the base of the front sight post is now slightly above the top of the well in the front sight base. If this happens, the “0.040” taller” front sight post from Bushmaster provides a quick and inexpensive fix.
http://www.box.net/shared/static/kc9mgqaqvm.jpg]http://www.box.net/shared/static/kc9mgqaqvm.jpg]http://www.box.net/shared/static/kc9mgqaqvm.jpg I just went out and re-zeroed my Matech buis on the 200m setting from the 50y line, and I now have the exact problem quoted above....Catch is, this is a Bushmaster barrel, and I assume I already have the taller post......I havent measured, as I dont have a dial caliper to properly measure it...... So I want to find a taller post, but none of the e-tailers list the height on their websites....They only list width.....So can anyone help me out and point me to a post thats taller than the Bushy?? Thanks You know what happens when we assume. Yep (italics)...I started out hitting like a foot high from the 50 but I kept backing the post out....Now im in the 10 ring from 50 (lollipop). Think I backed it out 3 full turns, and now its sticking up and I can actually wiggle it......Just too high and loose to feel comfortable with......I don't own any Bushmasters, but I don't think they come standard with the 0.040" taller front sight post. Give Bushmaster a call and ask them. Other members here have stated that Bushmaster sometimes sends out the taller post for free. |
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OK I think I got this on my 6/3 set this way to shoot targets at:
100 yards = 6/3 -6 clicks 50 yards = 6/3 -4 clicks 300 yards= 6/3 But would the be a setting that poa=poi at 25yards? Also any advice for a noob shooter to help with differentiating the contrast of the black front sight against a black target esp as the targets get farther away? I have trouble differentiating the contrast of the two to get an accurate shot. (maybe I need new glasses ). Also at 100 yard distances my front sight seems almost as big as the target I am shooting, yet alone trying to line it up in the middle. Maybe I need bigger targets? Though the ones I have say 50 yard/100 yard rifle, they are 8" circles.
Thus is my reason for thinking I may be able to fine tune my iron sight sighting if I had a 25 yard sighting setting also. Any advice appreciated!!! |
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Originally Posted By Lilrascal:
But would the be a setting that poa=poi at 25yards? For the A2 sights, approximately 8/3, +3. For the carry handle sights, you can get a little more precise with the half clicks and make it 6/3, +5. |
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Originally Posted By Silence214:
Hey, If someone doesnt mind to much, could I get the very specific (knuclehead) instructions for the original IBZ zero for a 16" detach carry-handle (6/3) carbine Please Simply follow all of the instructions at the beginning of this thread and instead of zeroing at 100 yards, zero at 50 yards with the rear sight set at 6/3, -4. |
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Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Silence214:
Hey, If someone doesnt mind to much, could I get the very specific (knuclehead) instructions for the original IBZ zero for a 16" detach carry-handle (6/3) carbine Please Simply follow all of the instructions at the beginning of this thread and instead of zeroing at 100 yards, zero at 50 yards with the rear sight set at 6/3, -4. Ok, 6/3 -4 at 50. Will I have to adjust the front post at all? What will be the POI at 100 and 200?? Thanks |
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Originally Posted By Silence214:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Silence214:
Hey, If someone doesnt mind to much, could I get the very specific (knuclehead) instructions for the original IBZ zero for a 16" detach carry-handle (6/3) carbine Please Simply follow all of the instructions at the beginning of this thread and instead of zeroing at 100 yards, zero at 50 yards with the rear sight set at 6/3, -4. Ok, 6/3 -4 at 50. Will I have to adjust the front post at all? What will be the POI at 100 and 200?? Thanks Definitely. 
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Hi I have been reading this post, I have a M4 with a detachable carry handle with the 3/6 markings. My elevation knob bottoms out -3 past the 3/6 number It came this way from the factory. So all I have to do is readjust it -3 clicks more to get it to bottom out at -6 for the 100yard zero correct? Or do I have to set it at 3/6 to bottom out first ,then move it -6 clicks past 3/6 for the 100 yard zero please get back to me thanks.
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I vote for a tack, I had to Google RIBZ to find this post. Thanks Molon. 
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"When patience has begotten false estimates of its motives, when wrongs are pressed because it is believed they will be borne, resistance becomes morality." - Thomas Jefferson to M. deStael, 1807
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Originally Posted By Silence214:
If I take the rifle (16") and sights as is and zero at 50 yards...what would be the POI at 100 and 200 with either M855 or M193?? I'll assume that by "sights as is" you mean that you are not modifying the rear sight elevation drum to go below 8/3 (or 6/3). If you zero for point of aim equals point of impact at 50 yards, your points of impact at 100 and 200 yards will still be roughly the same as shown above, depending upon the exact height of your front sight post above the bore line. Would I use the larger aperture? Use the small aperture. It will give you a much more precise zero. My groups tend to increase in size by approximately 140% when using the large aperture. Also, why would the front sight need to be adjusted using the IBZ? The front sight is used for adjusting the elevation, regardless of the particular sighting scheme being used. |
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Originally Posted By wedgeman:
Hi I have been reading this post, I have a M4 with a detachable carry handle with the 3/6 markings. My elevation knob bottoms out -3 past the 3/6 number It came this way from the factory. So all I have to do is readjust it -3 clicks more to get it to bottom out at -6 for the 100yard zero correct? Or do I have to set it at 3/6 to bottom out first ,then move it -6 clicks past 3/6 for the 100 yard zero please get back to me thanks. There is a witness hole on the A2 rear sight base that gives you access to the index screw that you will need to loosen with the 1/16” allen wrench to make the necessary alteration to the elevation drum. The witness hole lines up with the index screw only when the elevation drum is set to 8/3 (or 6/3.) |
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Originally Posted By JackalAR:
Here's a shot of my Colt 6920 take-off CH @ 6/3 -4 (8/3 -2). Is that much offset normal? Either way, why do they have this detent on just the one side? Is the large ap. now for <100 yds. and the small >100 rather than 0-200, etc.? http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr296/JackalAR/AR%20Stuff/IMG_1111.jpg It's normal for there to be a small amount of rotation of the rear sight, but yours looks quite excessive. Below is a pic of mine for comparison. From the field manual: “The larger aperture, marked 0-2, is used for moving target engagement and during limited visibility. The unmarked aperture is used for normal firing situations, zeroing and with the elevation knob for target distances up to 800 meters. The unmarked aperture is used to establish the battlesight zero.” 
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Originally Posted By JackalAR:
I assume the A2 apertures are offset to account for rotation for same POI between the two? There is a 2.5 MOA difference in elevation for Colt apertures. If you are referring to windage, see the close-up of the large aperture shown below. Do you notice anything.? 
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Re-read the whole thread and I think I "get it". You are the shit Molon.
I take it that there isn't an M193 specific RIBZ? Is that because it is too close to M855 to be concerned with? With M193, large AP, R-IBZ, carry handle w/ 1/2 clicks, 14.5" bbl....will I still use 6/3 +1 @ 50 yds. or would flat 6/3 be closer? Thanks again. |
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I have finally decided to put a set of optics on my AR. I'm starting with a Primary Arms combo set (Fakepoint) to see how i like it.
I have my BUIS set for 50/200. So do I set my optics for the same thing? For now I have a A2 FSB but I do I have a FF rail and folding FSB in my future. What would be the best way to sit in the Optic? |
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Here is my front site post after R-IBZ @ 50 yds, small ap., -4 clicks on a 6/3 detach. I did the full 2 half click buffer adjustment. It is a Bushy 14.5" upper, so no "F" marked FSB, with Bushy tall site post. Is this out of the ordinary?
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Originally Posted By JackalAR:
Here is my front site post after R-IBZ @ 50 yds, small ap., -4 clicks on a 6/3 detach. I did the full 2 half click buffer adjustment. It is a Bushy 14.5" upper, so no "F" marked FSB, with Bushy tall site post. Is this out of the ordinary? http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr296/JackalAR/AR%20Stuff/IMG_1209.jpg Wow! That is high. Here's a pic of my 16" Colt 6520-F zeroed at 50 yards with a LaRue rear BUIS for comparison. 
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Great. Anyone else have this "issue"? What can I do about it, short of putting a quality BUIS on on there. That's what I get for buying a Colt part. 
ETA: Appears as though my "issues" aren't all that uncommon after all. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=446863&page=1 |
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Originally Posted By JackalAR: Does the rifle shoot? Did you get it zeroed? It's fine.Here is my front site post after R-IBZ @ 50 yds, small ap., -4 clicks on a 6/3 detach. I did the full 2 half click buffer adjustment. It is a Bushy 14.5" upper, so no "F" marked FSB, with Bushy tall site post. Is this out of the ordinary? http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr296/JackalAR/AR%20Stuff/IMG_1209.jpg |
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Improved Battle Sight Zero: You zero in @ 50 yards.
Revised Improved Battle Sight Zero: You zero in @ 100 yards. Are these the only differences between the two methods or am I missing something here? All the adjustments are the same here no matter what method you use correct? Using the carry handle that is 6/3 Double click 1. With the allen wrench I go -8 Clicks Clockwise? (Correct?) 2. This leaves me 2 click bufferzone (1 full click on other sites) 3. -6 clicks is Revised Improved Battle Sight Zero...my 100 POI yard Zero 4. -4 Clicks is Improved Battle Zero and my new 50 yard POA Zero 5. Standard 300 Yard Zero is still 6/3 setting Small aperture: 25: 6/3 50: -4 100: -6 200: -4 300: 6/3 400: 4 setting (+6 if you aren't looking) 500: 5 setting (+8 if you aren't looking) 600: 6 setting (+ 11 if you aren't looking) Large aperture: 25: +3 50: -1 100: -3 200: -1 300: +3 400: 4 setting +3 (+9 if you aren't looking) 500: 5 setting +3 (+11 if you aren't looking) 600: 6 setting +3 (+14 if you aren't looking) |
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Originally Posted By Aaron556:
Improved Battle Sight Zero: You zero in @ 50 yards. Revised Improved Battle Sight Zero: You zero in @ 100 yards. Are these the only differences between the two methods or am I missing something here? All the adjustments are the same here no matter what method you use correct? The Revised Improved Battlesight Zero allows for a 100 yard point of aim equals point of impact setting; the Improved Battlesight Zero does not. You can obtain the Revised Improved Battlesight Zero at a distance of 50 yards using the appropriate 50 yard setting on the rear sight (after having made the appropriate adjustments to the rear sight). Due to the coarse nature of the AR-15 rear sight elevation adjustments and the fact that the elevation drum is calibrated for meters, not yards, these settings are all approximate and beyond 300 yards would need to be obtained for each particular rifle, barrel length and ammunition used. |
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Originally Posted By Aaron556:
Yes ? No? Maybe? Your small ap. settings look right, but the large ap. setting changes depends on site radius. The main difference between IBZ and R-IBZ is the addition of the buffer zone and the setting down to 100y zero. This is what I saved into a Word doc for future reference for my 14.5" M4gery, along with the formula for each site radius and elevation wheel. All this came from this badass thread and the guys who posted it. Thanks!!! M4 R-IBZ Site Settings Small Aperture: 25: “6/3” 50: -4 100: -6 200: -4 300: “6/3” 400: “4” (+6) Large Aperture: 25: +5 50: +1 100: -1 200: +1 300: +5 400: “4” +5 (+11) Key: For a 20” sight radius with A2 upper, the elevation clicks are worth 1.00 MOA each, and the POI shift between apertures is 2.52 MOA. Divide 2.52 by 1.00 to get 2.52. Adjust the elevation wheel UP either 2 or 3 clicks to maintain the same zero when changing from small to large aperture. For a 20” sight radius with removable handle, the elevation clicks are worth 0.53 MOA each, and the POI shift between apertures is 2.52 MOA. Adjust the elevation wheel UP 5 clicks to maintain the same zero when changing from small to large aperture. For a 17.25" sight radius with A2 upper, the elevation clicks are worth 1.215 MOA each, and the POI shift between apertures is 2.92 MOA. Adjust the elevation wheel UP either 2 or 3 clicks to maintain the same zero when changing from small aperture to large aperture. For a 17.25" sight radius with removable handle, the elevation clicks are worth 0.585 MOA each, and the POI shift between apertures is 2.92 MOA. Adjust the elevation wheel UP 5 clicks to maintain the same zero when changing from small to large aperture. For a 14.5” sight radius with A2 upper, the elevation clicks are worth 1.43 MOA each, and the POI shift between apertures is 3.48 MOA. Adjust the elevation wheel UP either 2 or 3 clicks to maintain the same zero when changing from small to large aperture. For a 14.5” sight radius with removable handle, the elevation clicks are worth 0.65 MOA each, and the POI shift between apertures is 3.48 MOA. Adjust the elevation wheel UP 5 clicks to maintain the same zero when changing from small to large aperture. 8/3 = Full click, non detachable A2 upper. 6/3 = Half click detachable A2 Carry Handle. |
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Originally Posted By Aaron556:
I counted the clicks and I am bottoming out on 6/3 -9 clicks. Is this normal? Or should it be -8? I just wanted t make sure I did the procedure correctly. I know there is supposed to be a "buffer zone". Close enough for government work. 
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I have my carry handle set as indicated. If I sight in 50 yards with the -4 clicks, I should do POA = POI, correct?
Then, how do I aim for the 300m settings with 6/3? Should it be POA = POI or should it work with a 6 O'Clock hold? The only reason I asked is because a friend of mine indicated that the military used to use a 6 O'Clock hold when zeroing in because it is easier to index on the bottom of a target than to try and aim at the center. |
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Originally Posted By redduck21502:
I have my carry handle set as indicated. If I sight in 50 yards with the -4 clicks, I should do POA = POI, correct? Then, how do I aim for the 300m settings with 6/3? Should it be POA = POI or should it work with a 6 O'Clock hold? The only reason I asked is because a friend of mine indicated that the military used to use a 6 O'Clock hold when zeroing in because it is easier to index on the bottom of a target than to try and aim at the center. POA = POI. See FM23-9 |
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65 Foot zero?
Trying to figure how to best zero at an indoor range with max of 65 foot distance to target. 16" barrel, A1 rear sight, 62 grain fmj. Reading through the info here I think I want to be approx 1.25 inches low at 65 feet. I'll be able to get the rifle out to a 200 yard range in the future but for now just want to get a zero with the range I have available that will keep me on paper out to 200 yards or so. Thanks. rube |
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Originally Posted By rube:
65 Foot zero? Trying to figure how to best zero at an indoor range with max of 65 foot distance to target. 16" barrel, A1 rear sight, 62 grain fmj. Reading through the info here I think I want to be approx 1.25 inches low at 65 feet. Yes, that will get you close to a 50 yard POA=POI zero. (1.3" low, to be a little more precise.) Thanks. rube |
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| Thank you Molon for the straight forward instructions on the RIBZ and providing graphs, that was very helpful. Thank you for taking the time and for your patients in replying to questions. As with everyone else, the information that you provided, gave me a better understanding and simplified the A2 Sight, making it more practical for realistic known distances and better hit probability for unknown distances for my application. |
RIBZ - - Revised Improved Battlesight Zero (Page 5 of 11)
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