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Originally Posted By sagmill:
The upper will come with the SF3P. The Army upper has the SF4P which is only available from Surefire to the USG. There is absolutely no chance in getting those. It was explained to me that the 4P was an earlier muzzle device that was adopted and the 3P came later on. The 3P actually works better than the 4P in Surefire testing (there is no benefit to the 4P) but the 4P is the legacy muzzle device. The Warcomp thing is our mistake and confusion with the info we had from the beginning. Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
Bill Geissele started the "special sauce" thing when he unveiled the URG-I during that livestream. The DD barrels have been doing very well in Govt testing over other military barrels and I was curious why. So we analyzed one and I saw that the barrel contained not an insignificant amount of nickel which 4140 and 4150 do not. Also a very clean steel. To me this added nickel indicated a different steel composition than off the shelf gun grade barrel steel and I assumed that this was special to DD. I made this comment before looking at some other analysis of late Colt barrels and they also have nickel in them. So I am retracting my special sauce comment. DD just has a darn good, well made barrel. 
Any way you could clear up which muzzle device will be on the Brownells URG-I? We still don't know if SF3P or Warcomp. 
I think we narrowed down SF4P for the USASOC issued URG-I though. The Warcomp thing is our mistake and confusion with the info we had from the beginning.
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Colt the rifles and super sport the motorcycles
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Originally Posted By sagmill:
The Warcomp thing is our mistake and confusion with the info we had from the beginning. 
was looking forward to trying out the warcomp |
"Bro, you need to turn your ACOG off before the batteries die." - PMI Instructor: subject matter expert
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Originally Posted By DocBach:
was looking forward to trying out the warcomp Originally Posted By DocBach:
Originally Posted By sagmill:
The Warcomp thing is our mistake and confusion with the info we had from the beginning.
was looking forward to trying out the warcomp |
Colt the rifles and super sport the motorcycles
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Originally Posted By DocBach:
I’ve got a complete upper with one of brownells coupons already on order for about the same price as the stripped one. I’ll live with the 3 prong
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Colt the rifles and super sport the motorcycles
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Originally Posted By sagmill:
Vapor I see your point. I just figured that the next revision of our Super Gas Block in nitrided 17-4 stainless would be preferred over a chrome-moly one. Also a bomb proof cross pin instead of just set screws. Let me look into it. Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By sagmill: Guys I have to take ownership here of this. The DD barrels have been doing very well in Govt testing over other military barrels and I was curious why. So we analyzed one and I saw that the barrel contained not an insignificant amount of nickel which 4140 and 4150 do not. Also a very clean steel. To me this added nickel indicated a different steel composition than off the shelf gun grade barrel steel and I assumed that this was special to DD. I made this comment before looking at some other analysis of late Colt barrels and they also have nickel in them. So I am retracting my special sauce comment. DD just has a darn good, well made barrel. First off I would like to thank you for offering the MK16 rails on a complete upper to the public. I for one appreciate the fact that you did, so thank you. Many here have pre-ordered their uppers from Brownells and are excited to get them. But if the purpose of the upper is to be as near-clone correct as possible, wouldn't it be better and easier to do if the uppers shipped with the correct DD MK12 gas block? Even if the G gas block is nicer? I think a lot of the fence-sitters here would join in on the pre-order if the uppers used the DD block. What do you think? Best Regards For a clone upper, the issued gas block would be much better. The URG as correct as possible or just the rail and charging handle by themselves would be best for the cloners and the rail by itself would be best for the non cloners IMO. |
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Originally Posted By hfrog355:
This is an assumption you're making that I'm not sure was ever the point of the product. Originally Posted By hfrog355:
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
...But if the purpose of the upper is to be as near-clone correct as possible... https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/ar-15-usasoc-upper-receiver-group-improved-urgi-5-56-m-lok-prod114412.aspx |
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Originally Posted By 871JZ:
Geissele/Brownell's are specifically advertising it as a USASOC URG-I. That's the whole point. https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/ar-15-usasoc-upper-receiver-group-improved-urgi-5-56-m-lok-prod114412.aspx Originally Posted By 871JZ:
Originally Posted By hfrog355:
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
...But if the purpose of the upper is to be as near-clone correct as possible... https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/ar-15-usasoc-upper-receiver-group-improved-urgi-5-56-m-lok-prod114412.aspx |
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:
The idea is to clone, but I don't think there's any company that sells a true clone. Cue a picture of Daniel Defense "clone" RIS II URGs. Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By 871JZ:
Originally Posted By hfrog355:
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
...But if the purpose of the upper is to be as near-clone correct as possible... https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/ar-15-usasoc-upper-receiver-group-improved-urgi-5-56-m-lok-prod114412.aspx |
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Honestly, I love the idea of having the new and the best, but if the barrel is a dd middy barrel and the ONLY urg-1 feature is the mk16, it's kinda useless to me, and I'm a clone whore. Hell, I run an incan m3x on my mk18 and it's my new do all rifle ! Honestly if it had a DD gas block, that'd be reason to go with it. Otherwise, I could just build that upper with a mk14 until the 16 comes out and be that square with a 4P
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Originally Posted By aaron580:
Honestly, I love the idea of having the new and the best, but if the barrel is a dd middy barrel and the ONLY urg-1 feature is the mk16, it's kinda useless to me, and I'm a clone whore. Hell, I run an incan m3x on my mk18 and it's my new do all rifle ! Honestly if it had a DD gas block, that'd be reason to go with it. Otherwise, I could just build that upper with a mk14 until the 16 comes out and be that square with a 4PThat said, I'm gonna snag the first MK16 I see pop up in the EE and build my own.
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Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
Thanks for chiming in here, Bill. There's no doubt that your new SGB will be bomb-proof, but unfortunately when it comes to cloning you'll see that legitimate upgrades in functionality will virtually always be cast aside in favor of what's "clone correct". We're an odd bunch like that.  Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By sagmill: Guys I have to take ownership here of this. The DD barrels have been doing very well in Govt testing over other military barrels and I was curious why. So we analyzed one and I saw that the barrel contained not an insignificant amount of nickel which 4140 and 4150 do not. Also a very clean steel. To me this added nickel indicated a different steel composition than off the shelf gun grade barrel steel and I assumed that this was special to DD. I made this comment before looking at some other analysis of late Colt barrels and they also have nickel in them. So I am retracting my special sauce comment. DD just has a darn good, well made barrel. First off I would like to thank you for offering the MK16 rails on a complete upper to the public. I for one appreciate the fact that you did, so thank you. Many here have pre-ordered their uppers from Brownells and are excited to get them. But if the purpose of the upper is to be as near-clone correct as possible, wouldn't it be better and easier to do if the uppers shipped with the correct DD MK12 gas block? Even if the G gas block is nicer? I think a lot of the fence-sitters here would join in on the pre-order if the uppers used the DD block. What do you think? Best Regards What’s your opinion on the SP3 vs SP4? There will always be a difference. |
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@Steviej309
Just wondering, but are you in the camp that's looking at this upper as a military issued clone or are you mostly interested in the rail NEVER GO FULL CLONE! 
Just a similar with rail and a spikes optimal middy barrel. Whatever upper i find and either a Warcomp or SF3P. LPVO scope |
If U can't Truck It F!@k It!
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Originally Posted By sagmill:
Ok, understood. What’s your opinion on the SP3 vs SP4? There will always be a difference. Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By sagmill: Guys I have to take ownership here of this. The DD barrels have been doing very well in Govt testing over other military barrels and I was curious why. So we analyzed one and I saw that the barrel contained not an insignificant amount of nickel which 4140 and 4150 do not. Also a very clean steel. To me this added nickel indicated a different steel composition than off the shelf gun grade barrel steel and I assumed that this was special to DD. I made this comment before looking at some other analysis of late Colt barrels and they also have nickel in them. So I am retracting my special sauce comment. DD just has a darn good, well made barrel. First off I would like to thank you for offering the MK16 rails on a complete upper to the public. I for one appreciate the fact that you did, so thank you. Many here have pre-ordered their uppers from Brownells and are excited to get them. But if the purpose of the upper is to be as near-clone correct as possible, wouldn't it be better and easier to do if the uppers shipped with the correct DD MK12 gas block? Even if the G gas block is nicer? I think a lot of the fence-sitters here would join in on the pre-order if the uppers used the DD block. What do you think? Best Regards What’s your opinion on the SP3 vs SP4? There will always be a difference. |
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Originally Posted By sagmill: Ok, understood. What’s your opinion on the SP3 vs SP4? There will always be a difference. Originally Posted By pezboytate: We usually try to find unavailable parts like the 4 prong on the second hand market. Some people accept the three prong similar to how some accept a 16" barrel on an M4 or M4A1 clone. It depends how stringent someone is. For those wanting a 4 prong, a pinned 3 prong would be a large waste of funds. |
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Originally Posted By sagmill:
Ok, understood. What’s your opinion on the SP3 vs SP4? There will always be a difference. Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By sagmill: Guys I have to take ownership here of this. The DD barrels have been doing very well in Govt testing over other military barrels and I was curious why. So we analyzed one and I saw that the barrel contained not an insignificant amount of nickel which 4140 and 4150 do not. Also a very clean steel. To me this added nickel indicated a different steel composition than off the shelf gun grade barrel steel and I assumed that this was special to DD. I made this comment before looking at some other analysis of late Colt barrels and they also have nickel in them. So I am retracting my special sauce comment. DD just has a darn good, well made barrel. First off I would like to thank you for offering the MK16 rails on a complete upper to the public. I for one appreciate the fact that you did, so thank you. Many here have pre-ordered their uppers from Brownells and are excited to get them. But if the purpose of the upper is to be as near-clone correct as possible, wouldn't it be better and easier to do if the uppers shipped with the correct DD MK12 gas block? Even if the G gas block is nicer? I think a lot of the fence-sitters here would join in on the pre-order if the uppers used the DD block. What do you think? Best Regards What’s your opinion on the SP3 vs SP4? There will always be a difference. If I may make a suggestion here, it would be sweet to have a way of purchasing the stealth ACH for those that opt for the stripped upper. That ACH, being unique, will be a pretty critical part for those that want a true clone. |
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:
We usually try to find unavailable parts like the 4 prong on the second hand market. Some people accept the three prong similar to how some accept a 16" barrel on an M4 or M4A1 clone. It depends how stringent someone is. For those wanting a 4 prong, a pinned 3 prong would be a large waste of funds. Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By sagmill: Guys I have to take ownership here of this. The DD barrels have been doing very well in Govt testing over other military barrels and I was curious why. So we analyzed one and I saw that the barrel contained not an insignificant amount of nickel which 4140 and 4150 do not. Also a very clean steel. To me this added nickel indicated a different steel composition than off the shelf gun grade barrel steel and I assumed that this was special to DD. I made this comment before looking at some other analysis of late Colt barrels and they also have nickel in them. So I am retracting my special sauce comment. DD just has a darn good, well made barrel. First off I would like to thank you for offering the MK16 rails on a complete upper to the public. I for one appreciate the fact that you did, so thank you. Many here have pre-ordered their uppers from Brownells and are excited to get them. But if the purpose of the upper is to be as near-clone correct as possible, wouldn't it be better and easier to do if the uppers shipped with the correct DD MK12 gas block? Even if the G gas block is nicer? I think a lot of the fence-sitters here would join in on the pre-order if the uppers used the DD block. What do you think? Best Regards What’s your opinion on the SP3 vs SP4? There will always be a difference. |
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Originally Posted By 871JZ: Geissele/Brownell's are specifically advertising it as a USASOC URG-I. That's the whole point. https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/ar-15-usasoc-upper-receiver-group-improved-urgi-5-56-m-lok-prod114412.aspx Personally, I'm not a cloner. I'm going to wait for the G produced BCG and possibly DDC receiver, but am glad to have the G gas block on there. |
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Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Plus I'm sure the ones who want a 4p would just get the stripped version then find an add one themselves. Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By sagmill: Guys I have to take ownership here of this. The DD barrels have been doing very well in Govt testing over other military barrels and I was curious why. So we analyzed one and I saw that the barrel contained not an insignificant amount of nickel which 4140 and 4150 do not. Also a very clean steel. To me this added nickel indicated a different steel composition than off the shelf gun grade barrel steel and I assumed that this was special to DD. I made this comment before looking at some other analysis of late Colt barrels and they also have nickel in them. So I am retracting my special sauce comment. DD just has a darn good, well made barrel. First off I would like to thank you for offering the MK16 rails on a complete upper to the public. I for one appreciate the fact that you did, so thank you. Many here have pre-ordered their uppers from Brownells and are excited to get them. But if the purpose of the upper is to be as near-clone correct as possible, wouldn't it be better and easier to do if the uppers shipped with the correct DD MK12 gas block? Even if the G gas block is nicer? I think a lot of the fence-sitters here would join in on the pre-order if the uppers used the DD block. What do you think? Best Regards What’s your opinion on the SP3 vs SP4? There will always be a difference. |
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Originally Posted By sagmill:
Ok, understood. What’s your opinion on the SP3 vs SP4? There will always be a difference. Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By sagmill: Guys I have to take ownership here of this. The DD barrels have been doing very well in Govt testing over other military barrels and I was curious why. So we analyzed one and I saw that the barrel contained not an insignificant amount of nickel which 4140 and 4150 do not. Also a very clean steel. To me this added nickel indicated a different steel composition than off the shelf gun grade barrel steel and I assumed that this was special to DD. I made this comment before looking at some other analysis of late Colt barrels and they also have nickel in them. So I am retracting my special sauce comment. DD just has a darn good, well made barrel. First off I would like to thank you for offering the MK16 rails on a complete upper to the public. I for one appreciate the fact that you did, so thank you. Many here have pre-ordered their uppers from Brownells and are excited to get them. But if the purpose of the upper is to be as near-clone correct as possible, wouldn't it be better and easier to do if the uppers shipped with the correct DD MK12 gas block? Even if the G gas block is nicer? I think a lot of the fence-sitters here would join in on the pre-order if the uppers used the DD block. What do you think? Best Regards What’s your opinion on the SP3 vs SP4? There will always be a difference. I think the SF3P is the best option you could offer for a pin/weld URG considering. Many are also interested in the warcomp, but on a pin/weld there would have to be an option for left handed or right handed timing apparently. Which would probably complicate the hell out of things for you guys and/or Brownells. So I think SF3P is the best option from your standpoint. That or the complete URG offered with no muzzle device at all. (Option 2 would also allow one to install the issued gas block) It would be awesome to see your issued charging handle and the Mk16 rail sold individually as well. It is of my opinion that Daniel Defense would have made more money in the end if they had continued to sell the FDE RIS II's individually, rather than trying to make us buy their complete uppers or rifles to buy one, but all of the people in this conversation just buy the FDE RIS II second hand by itself off the EE anyways and throw them on Colt parts. So I guess it is what it is. I really appreciate you dropping in here and listening to us. It means a lot, and is pretty rare these days for a manufacturer of your magnitude.
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Colt the rifles and super sport the motorcycles
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@sagmill
Thanks for stopping by! Is there some sort of contractual obligation that keeps you guys from selling the rails (and charging handles) separately? Considering your rails typically include a gas block and the charging handle already is a production item minus the different markings, I don't really see what is gained by Geissele Automatics by only offering the rail on an upper. It's not like they wouldn't sell hand over fist as standalone items. People want what the military uses. Always have, always will. Buying things in pieces is more economically viable and allows for the building of a "perfect" clone for those interested. It also allows for the people just building a shooter to get the latest and greatest Geissele rail hotness for the upper of their design without having to resell the parts they don't want or need. Not offering the rails as standalone items seems like a big mistake since the majority of the extra parts buyers are forced to purchase aren't even made by by Geissele. Its just pumping DD's sales. There are a lot of people, myself included, holding out on purchasing the MK14 rail now that the MK16 has been released. The 45 degree MLOK points are something worth waiting for. In my opinion, the MK14 should just be replaced by the MK16 as the 14 doesn't offer anything over the 16. The opposite is not true. The 45 degree MLOK slots on the MK16 will be there for those who need them without hurting those who don't. Seems like a no brainer, then again I don't run a Super Successful (TM) AR accessory company
PS: We want the short "CQBR" version too, DDC of course
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Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
As stated we (being the clone thread regulars) buy them off the second hand market. Not hard to find whatsoever, just a bit pricey due to what you previously stated. (.gov sales only-ish) I think the SF3P is the best option you could offer for a pin/weld URG considering. Many are also interested in the warcomp, but on a pin/weld there would have to be an option for left handed or right handed timing apparently. Which would probably complicate the hell out of things for you guys and/or Brownells. So I think SF3P is the best option from your standpoint. That or the complete URG offered with no muzzle device at all. (Option 2 would also allow one to install the issued gas block) It would be awesome to see your issued charging handle and the Mk16 rail sold individually as well. It is of my opinion that Daniel Defense would have made more money in the end if they had continued to sell the FDE RIS II's individually, rather than trying to make us buy their complete uppers or rifles to buy one, but all of the people in this conversation just buy the FDE RIS II second hand by itself off the EE anyways and throw them on Colt parts. So I guess it is what it is. I really appreciate you dropping in here and listening to us. It means a lot, and is pretty rare these days for a manufacturer of your magnitude. Thanks again Bill for all your interaction on the forums, in addition to offering the worlds best parts. |
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Originally Posted By GS5414:
No proprietary size was specified for either USASOC issue gun or USMC test guns. Ports are 0.076" +/- DD's acceptable tolerances. S/F Originally Posted By GS5414:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
@GS5414 Do you know if USASOC spec'd their own gas port size for these barrels? Ports are 0.076" +/- DD's acceptable tolerances. S/F |
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These last few pages reinforce why I will continue to support Geissele Automatics. Though he doesn't respond to every little question or comment (and he doesn't need to), Bill is clearly paying attention to what his customers want, whether Mil/Gov or Civ.
I'm not a clone guy, though I appreciate why some guys are. I'm really hoping a day comes when I can buy a standalone black MK16, but until then...maybe the URG-I will be my first step into the expensive hobby of clones. |
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Originally Posted By hfrog355:
Says pretty clearly "near clone" as in, not an exact replica. Personally, I'm not a cloner. I'm going to wait for the G produced BCG and possibly DDC receiver, but am glad to have the G gas block on there. Originally Posted By hfrog355:
Originally Posted By 871JZ: Geissele/Brownell's are specifically advertising it as a USASOC URG-I. That's the whole point. https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/ar-15-usasoc-upper-receiver-group-improved-urgi-5-56-m-lok-prod114412.aspx Personally, I'm not a cloner. I'm going to wait for the G produced BCG and possibly DDC receiver, but am glad to have the G gas block on there. |
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FYI, while the majority will be Colt uppers and BCGs. Any that are in the supply system can and will be used, ie FN and Demco. This is because all I'm getting is the Mk16 rail, CH, 14.5" mid length bbl, gas block and gas tube. Receiver, BCG and SF4P will be reused from the M4A1 URG (or whatever upper they drop off). I've gotten this from Bill and my food chain. I'll be rebuilding these guns to URG-I format. CD |
De Oppresso Liber
Iraq: 91,03,04,05,06,08,09,15&16'
Afganistan: 09,10,11',14'&17'
Iraq: 91,03,04,05,06,08,09,15&16'
Afganistan: 09,10,11',14'&17'
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:
But no clone correct charging handle and wrong gas block. Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By sagmill:
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By sagmill: Guys I have to take ownership here of this. The DD barrels have been doing very well in Govt testing over other military barrels and I was curious why. So we analyzed one and I saw that the barrel contained not an insignificant amount of nickel which 4140 and 4150 do not. Also a very clean steel. To me this added nickel indicated a different steel composition than off the shelf gun grade barrel steel and I assumed that this was special to DD. I made this comment before looking at some other analysis of late Colt barrels and they also have nickel in them. So I am retracting my special sauce comment. DD just has a darn good, well made barrel. First off I would like to thank you for offering the MK16 rails on a complete upper to the public. I for one appreciate the fact that you did, so thank you. Many here have pre-ordered their uppers from Brownells and are excited to get them. But if the purpose of the upper is to be as near-clone correct as possible, wouldn't it be better and easier to do if the uppers shipped with the correct DD MK12 gas block? Even if the G gas block is nicer? I think a lot of the fence-sitters here would join in on the pre-order if the uppers used the DD block. What do you think? Best Regards What’s your opinion on the SP3 vs SP4? There will always be a difference. |
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I have been thinking about this at great length, and the issue of clone-correct is a real thing to be sure. But everyone draws their line somewhere, because no one outside the Army can get the real thing anyways, and no matter how you look at it they are all knock-offs no matter how "clone correct" you get it. Do your thing Bill, we'll still buy them either way. |
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Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
FYI, while the majority will be Colt uppers and BCGs. Any that are in the supply system can and will be used, ie FN and Demco. This is because all I'm getting is the Mk16 rail, CH, 14.5" mid length bbl, gas block and gas tube. Receiver, BCG and SF4P will be reused from the M4A1 URG (or whatever upper they drop off). I've gotten this from Bill and my food chain. I'll be rebuilding these guns to URG-I format. CD
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Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
FYI, while the majority will be Colt uppers and BCGs. Any that are in the supply system can and will be used, ie FN and Demco. This is because all I'm getting is the Mk16 rail, CH, 14.5" mid length bbl, gas block and gas tube. Receiver, BCG and SF4P will be reused from the M4A1 URG (or whatever upper they drop off). I've gotten this from Bill and my food chain. I'll be rebuilding these guns to URG-I format. CD |
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Originally Posted By aaron580: What forge marks do demco receivers have? Colt used them for a while on mil contract uppers. Basically a stylized D with the Anchor Harvey forge mark. Attached File |
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The D is for Devtek or Diemaco, Colt Canada. I assume in the early 2000s Colt needed more uppers and got them from our cousins up north. My issued M4 from 2003 till 2017 was a Colt Canada upper. Wish I had one for my build3
ETA; The photo above shows the Colt Canada upper. Not to be confused with Demco who is also contracted. Thanks CD. |
If U can't Truck It F!@k It!
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Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: Think he means Diemaco. Colt used them for a while on mil contract uppers. Basically a stylized D with the Anchor Harvey forge mark. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/35055/2ppwxuf-461990.JPG DEMCO GROUP, INC. Cage Code 1ZE51 ROCKLEDGE, FL, UNITED STATES Here's one of the forgings they're using. Attached File CD |
De Oppresso Liber
Iraq: 91,03,04,05,06,08,09,15&16'
Afganistan: 09,10,11',14'&17'
Iraq: 91,03,04,05,06,08,09,15&16'
Afganistan: 09,10,11',14'&17'
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Originally Posted By Combat_Diver: No, I've posted this before. We also get stripped uppers from DEMCO GROUP, INC. Cage Code 1ZE51 ROCKLEDGE, FL, UNITED STATES Here's one of the forgings they're using. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/32677/IMG_1680-462439.JPG CD |
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Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts:
Is there like an official description or something that says what this rifle is used/designed for? This seems like a very versatile build. Also, is it worth it to make a clone when you aren't going to use the suppressor? Worth it to clone without a suppressor? It is still effective without the sound suppressor. It has a good flash suppressor. Are you just concerned because you wouldn't have the whole package? |
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@CD thanks for the upper info. 1st I've seen it. I agree the DD really should have continued to sell their rails eventhough I did cave and buy a Brownells upper to get a nonFSB when 11% off, on sale and free shipping hit together. @CD or others, I've asked this before without a good answer but if the 4Ps are mil only how are they getting into EE? Can an individual .mil order on their own? This far I have just ordered 3Ps......I do think the 4Ps "look" better. |
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Originally Posted By pezboytate: It is just a carbine for US Army SOF. They will use them like they are using what they currently have. Worth it to clone without a suppressor? It is still effective without the sound suppressor. It has a good flash suppressor. Are you just concerned because you wouldn't have the whole package? . Are there certain places or ways to acquire acceptable receivers? Thanks for the info.
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Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: Think he means Diemaco. Colt used them for a while on mil contract uppers. Basically a stylized D with the Anchor Harvey forge mark. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/35055/2ppwxuf-461990.JPG Originally Posted By imdBman:
The D is for Devtek or Diemaco, Colt Canada. I assume in the early 2000s Colt needed more uppers and got them from our cousins up north. My issued M4 from 2003 till 2017 was a Colt Canada upper. Wish I had one for my build3 ETA; The photo above shows the Colt Canada upper. Not to be confused with Demco who is also contracted. Thanks CD. Originally Posted By Combat_Diver: No, I've posted this before. We also get stripped uppers from DEMCO GROUP, INC. Cage Code 1ZE51 ROCKLEDGE, FL, UNITED STATES Here's one of the forgings they're using. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/32677/IMG_1680-462439.JPG CD |
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Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts:
I was more or less learning clone rules . Are there certain places or ways to acquire acceptable receivers? Thanks for the info.Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts:
Originally Posted By pezboytate: It is just a carbine for US Army SOF. They will use them like they are using what they currently have. Worth it to clone without a suppressor? It is still effective without the sound suppressor. It has a good flash suppressor. Are you just concerned because you wouldn't have the whole package? . Are there certain places or ways to acquire acceptable receivers? Thanks for the info.As far as lowers go, it's up to the individual cloner. Some use any M16A2 profile lower since that is the only part you can't get an actual issued item of. Some buy any Colt since it is made by a Government supplier to the proper specs. Some insist of M4A1 CARBINE marked Colt lowers since it is the closest thing to an actual M4A1. Some buy an 80% and engrave them with USGI M4A1 markings. |
| I really like the look of the MK16, I think I'll end up building one. Hopefully Geissele decides to sell the rails separate but maybe I'll just pick up a complete upper. Does anyone know, does Brownells charge your card right away for a pre-order, or once it ships? I've never pre-ordered from them before. |
| Seems to me, if I wanted to upgrade my Block II to this, I need the rail and charging handle, as well as a DD 14.5" middy barrel, rest is the same? Sadly I can't see a way of making this happen without buying the complete upper and selling off parts I'm not going to use (expensive option). |
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