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Posted: 9/3/2026 11:38:09 PM EDT
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If I only had one cartridge I could advocate to be produced with a NAS3 case , itd be 6.5 Grendel . Whats your's? |
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Theyre claiming 8% volume increase with the 6arc ... so another 2.8 gr . 2400fps becomes 2600fps , no pressure increase ? What if you take that strength dividend and push it to 2700fps ? I dont know that I would , but id be happy for someone to check it....maybe pulling string behind a shield for science , of course. * probly close to 150fps |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: 300blk is already in NAS3, which has been huge. Maybe something like 6MAX. Something that uses a 5.56 bolt. I would NAS3 all the things . Im sure market share makes a big consideration on the manufacturers side . But , what if there was an industry partner that could do a group buy to grease the skids for a lower market share special interest cartridge? |
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Originally Posted By 9D1Alpha: I would NAS3 all the things . Im sure market share makes a big consideration on the manufacturers side . But , what if there was an industry partner that could do a group buy to grease the skids for a lower market share special interest cartridge? PSA offered NAS3 cased 5.56 a couple years ago. I think they might be the one company that could pull it off....assuming there was an actual velocity increase. |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: PSA offered NAS3 cased 5.56 a couple years ago. I think they might be the one company that could pull it off....assuming there was an actual velocity increase. Reloaders are pushing 77-80gr .224 projectiles to 3k fps and 110-125gr .300blk up to 2800fps out of regular M4 or shorter ARs with NAS3 cases For the M16A1 20" traditionalists, don't @me you'll get more fps too  I think the hybrid cases and higher pressure traditional cartridges will become more mainstream with big mfgs if the HICAR program SOCOM is running takes off https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/HICAR-High-Pressure-82kpsi-M855A1-rifle-for-SOCOM/118-793860/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Geissele-first-iteration-of-the-HICAR-project-/118-794469/ |
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Originally Posted By stiglitz_actual: Reloaders are pushing 77-80gr .224 projectiles to 3k fps and 110-125gr .300blk up to 2800fps out of regular M4 or shorter ARs with NAS3 cases For the M16A1 20" traditionalists, don't @me you'll get more fps too I think the hybrid cases and higher pressure traditional cartridges will become more mainstream with big mfgs if the HICAR program SOCOM is running takes off https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/HICAR-High-Pressure-82kpsi-M855A1-rifle-for-SOCOM/118-793860/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Geissele-first-iteration-of-the-HICAR-project-/118-794469/ Originally Posted By stiglitz_actual: Originally Posted By panthermark: PSA offered NAS3 cased 5.56 a couple years ago. I think they might be the one company that could pull it off....assuming there was an actual velocity increase. Reloaders are pushing 77-80gr .224 projectiles to 3k fps and 110-125gr .300blk up to 2800fps out of regular M4 or shorter ARs with NAS3 cases For the M16A1 20" traditionalists, don't @me you'll get more fps too I think the hybrid cases and higher pressure traditional cartridges will become more mainstream with big mfgs if the HICAR program SOCOM is running takes off https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/HICAR-High-Pressure-82kpsi-M855A1-rifle-for-SOCOM/118-793860/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Geissele-first-iteration-of-the-HICAR-project-/118-794469/ When they started on the 300blk , I was like thats basically 3000hamr now . The thought naturally progressed to me thinking how nifty that'd be in actuall 300hamr . Then the grendel with more legs . The 6.8spc rid of its kneecapping from rem's botched SAAMI ... Heck , even the 25-45 Sharps acting like a 250 savage that they advertised it was. |
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Originally Posted By grendelbane: I was about to answer this when I noticed it was in the AR Variants section, and my choice was a handgun cartridge. I’ll do it anyway. I would like to see the 9x23mm Winchester. Not holding my breath waiting for it to happen, but I do think it would be cool. You can run anything you want in a AR15
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| The bolt thrust out of anything larger than 5.56 is quite substantial above what you'd want, let alone when it gets wet. Its a case designed for LW machine gun ammo at standard pressures, not for HP use. It just so happens to work with 5.56, but anything larger is dangerous and will cause gun problems. |
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Originally Posted By MadcapMagician: The bolt thrust out of anything larger than 5.56 is quite substantial above what you'd want, let alone when it gets wet. Its a case designed for LW machine gun ammo at standard pressures, not for HP use. It just so happens to work with 5.56, but anything larger is dangerous and will cause gun problems. So essentially we need to take the volume dividend and leave the case's pressure capabilities alone . * unless some fancy SFAR-like bolt/extension material used * |
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I guess if you want to only buy commercial ammo loaded in the cases. Shell Shock says do not reload their rifle cases. Their pistol cases can be reloaded. The bolt thrust issue arises because the cases have higher lubricity than brass (think of putting a thin layer of oil in the chamber), while the cases themselves can withstand the higher pressures, they also can result in elevated bolt thrust. If driven above SAAMI pressures levels, that bolt thrust can be massive. Another aspect of the cases, due to construction and the particular material, they have higher case capacity (they claim 9% to 11% increase), which can translate into using slower burning powders while maintaining the same velocities at lower peak pressures. It's when you start running the pressures up that things get dicey. Ran across this the other day. Not particularly scientific, but he does push things pretty hard. He gets away with it for the few test shots, but how many would it take to wreck that gun?  Can a 16" AR-15 Hit 4,745 FPS? (100,000 PSI NAS3 Test) |
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Originally Posted By HobbitHunter: Thumper. 450 bm, 458 socom, 50 beo. Whatever it takes. I mean, that's the appeal, let's go all the way. I like that idea , but there needs to be some kind of reloadable means . A more permanent means of attachment of the base and probably a tougher base maybe . A salt brazed brass base maybe . Or spot welded . ha At the low operating pressures theyd probably last forever . |
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Originally Posted By EDL: I guess if you want to only buy commercial ammo loaded in the cases. Shell Shock says do not reload their rifle cases. Their pistol cases can be reloaded. The bolt thrust issue arises because the cases have higher lubricity than brass (think of putting a thin layer of oil in the chamber), while the cases themselves can withstand the higher pressures, they also can result in elevated bolt thrust. If driven above SAAMI pressures levels, that bolt thrust can be massive. Another aspect of the cases, due to construction and the particular material, they have higher case capacity (they claim 9% to 11% increase), which can translate into using slower burning powders while maintaining the same velocities at lower peak pressures. It's when you start running the pressures up that things get dicey. Ran across this the other day. Not particularly scientific, but he does push things pretty hard. He gets away with it for the few test shots, but how many would it take to wreck that gun?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmzj21ylZTYI watched a different one where the guy fired a factory round in a AI chamber and it fireformed to the chamber . I was surprised that it did so after reading what I have about these cases. |
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Originally Posted By inkaybee: That guy is firing proof loads. It will catch up to him sooner or later. These cases are not magic. Pressure is pressure. He will break bolt lugs. Probably the ones on either side of the extractor. It probably won’t be catastrophic. It looked like he acknowledged that in the comments . * when asked about the severely abbreviated bore life he stated the bolt likely would fail long before that . |
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Originally Posted By Mytus: 6.8 SPC...ICAR platform and 3000fps. That would be an excellent case . The SPC's botched launch by Remington and SAAMI handicapped the cartridge and this would fix that . When I look at why or why wouldn't the industry take it up it leads me to market share , liability, and what is already in the pipeline that eases adaptability. So SPC might not be highest in probability, but it hits pretty good . The Grendel should be in the running if they are offering 6arc clamberings . It would be nice even as just a reloading component...that and specifically marketed AerMet100 bolts and bbl extensions . Based off 556 and 300blk , they should also be able to do 25-45 sharps , 300hamr , 6x45 , 277 wolverine ... even if just as a reloading component . |
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Originally Posted By 9D1Alpha: I like that idea , but there needs to be some kind of reloadable means . A more permanent means of attachment of the base and probably a tougher base maybe . A salt brazed brass base maybe . Or spot welded . ha At the low operating pressures theyd probably last forever . Yeah, i have no clue how to do it, but if it could be done and squeeze some more powder in there without raising psi (too much?), it sure seems like a win/win to me. A 2500fps 250gr hornady ftx 450bm out of a 16" barrel would be crazy. (Eta: this is fantasy, just fun to throw out there as in, could you imagine?) |
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Well, from the several test videos I've seen in 5.56 they're getting 100 to 130 FPS more from the ammo. If the commercial ammo is similar in cost to brass cased stuff and I didn't reload, sure, I might buy it instead. But, I do reload and these things (at least the rifle cases) are not reloadable, so, meh. I will say, it's good someone is innovating though. It's this sort of thing that leads to newer and better stuff. |
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Originally Posted By wvfarrier: I am running a .308 212 Bore rider with NAS3 and RL17. 23" barreled long action, 1-8.5 twist. 2922fps with a 308 Win!!! Wow. 300 win mag. I thin the future is better material bolts/extensions combined with Peak allow type cases. If a 11.5” 6ARC in peak case could achieve the same ballistics of an 18-20” barrel with standard case, that would be amazing. No need for anything else really. |
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Originally Posted By VeritatisUnus: Wow. 300 win mag. I thin the future is better material bolts/extensions combined with Peak allow type cases. If a 11.5” 6ARC in peak case could achieve the same ballistics of an 18-20” barrel with standard case, that would be amazing. No need for anything else really. Originally Posted By VeritatisUnus: Originally Posted By wvfarrier: I am running a .308 212 Bore rider with NAS3 and RL17. 23" barreled long action, 1-8.5 twist. 2922fps with a 308 Win!!! Wow. 300 win mag. I thin the future is better material bolts/extensions combined with Peak allow type cases. If a 11.5” 6ARC in peak case could achieve the same ballistics of an 18-20” barrel with standard case, that would be amazing. No need for anything else really. That is awesome on the .308 . On the 6arc , its probably mostly a mental thing , but I really want 6.5mm and I already have several grendel barrels . I might be able to get by with 6arc ... but I'm gonna hold out ...for now . Also , let's get those AerMet100 bolts and extensions coming! * Id take the 25-45sharps in nas3 (already have bbl) . 87gr ... shoulda been an ARFCOM load haha . |
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Originally Posted By 9D1Alpha: That is awesome on the .308 . On the 6arc , its probably mostly a mental thing , but I really want 6.5mm and I already have several grendel barrels . I might be able to get by with 6arc ... but I'm gonna hold out ...for now . Also , let's get those AerMet100 bolts and extensions coming! * Id take the 25-45sharps in nas3 (already have bbl) . 87gr ... shoulda been an ARFCOM load haha . Just get a 6 arc and be done with it. I did and have been nothing but pleased with the round as is. Sometimes i pop the upper off and shoot the 6.5g again, it's still a fine round, but it's been beaten at it's own game. |
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Originally Posted By HobbitHunter: Just get a 6 arc and be done with it. I did and have been nothing but pleased with the round as is. Sometimes i pop the upper off and shoot the 6.5g again, it's still a fine round, but it's been beaten at it's own game. Originally Posted By HobbitHunter: Originally Posted By 9D1Alpha: That is awesome on the .308 . On the 6arc , its probably mostly a mental thing , but I really want 6.5mm and I already have several grendel barrels . I might be able to get by with 6arc ... but I'm gonna hold out ...for now . Also , let's get those AerMet100 bolts and extensions coming! * Id take the 25-45sharps in nas3 (already have bbl) . 87gr ... shoulda been an ARFCOM load haha . Just get a 6 arc and be done with it. I did and have been nothing but pleased with the round as is. Sometimes i pop the upper off and shoot the 6.5g again, it's still a fine round, but it's been beaten at it's own game. I think thats a consideration , especially if I can source a AerMet100 bolt . * there was a time 30 years ago I thought the 6mm PPC was about the perfect minimalist cartridge....low and behold , here it is . |
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Originally Posted By 9D1Alpha: I think thats a consideration , especially if I can source a AerMet100 bolt . * there was a time 30 years ago I thought the 6mm PPC was about the perfect minimalist cartridge....low and behold , here it is . Don't even need aermet, people (like me) are using regular 6.5/6arc bolts no sweat right now. If you really want assurance, get a rexus ultra bolt, it's just a cunt hair thicker than everyone else. https://rexusoutfitters.com/rexus-ultrabolt-65-grendel-6mmarc-22arc-ar15-bolt/ |
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Originally Posted By TSH77769: 6mm max Or derived from it 224 max and 30 max. Also 7.62x39 I kinda like the 6max , reminds me of the 25-45 sharps . Though it is a hair shorter like the arfcom version of 25-556 for a hair better fit of ogives. Itd be neat to see the 400 legend get wildcated ...257 and 277 maybe . 1.65" case length (42-43mm), just short enough to get into the useful lengths of bullets for those two . With the icar 6arc polymer mags and the AerMet100 arc bolts , a 6.35x42 nas3 would be screaming . Itd be like 38gr capacity + the 8% of nas3 for 41gr equivalent...pushed a bit on the Aermet bolt ... Itd be like a bit fatter version of an SPC ( 440 vs 422 ...like 6max to 556 390 vs 378 ). * like a 250-3000 savage reincarnated 
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Originally Posted By dblazevich: I was thinking the same thing but for the PS90. imagine getting 556ish performance out of the P90 Originally Posted By dblazevich: Originally Posted By backbencher: I just want an honest 2300 fps from a pistol in 5.7. I was thinking the same thing but for the PS90. imagine getting 556ish performance out of the P90 Thats actually a neat concept . Imagine a 6x35 with a little pdw built around it kicking out better than 5.56 numbers . Or Colt MARS with a 221 fireball nas3 . |
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