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Posted: 12/28/2025 11:31:31 PM EDT
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I have a feeling when you take bullet weights into account it’s a draw, but maybe I’m missing something which someone will point out. So let’s say you have the option between a 7ish barrel 300 or 10ish 556…the advantages I see on the 300 are better mobility and more flexible round choice. Weights I’m playing with seem about the same with a 30rnd mag. Am I missing anything? (Take bullet availability out for the discussion, just assume both are readily available. Same with barrels or any different parts like mags, etc.) |
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IMI 77gr SMK's are about the same weight as 110gr V-max rounds. 55gr FMJ's are a bit lighter per bullet. At close(r) ranges, no, you are not missing anything. Biggest drawback to a super-shorty 300blk is rail space, especially on an AR-pistol where you can't run a VFG. My 7.5" 300blk is super compact, but even an 8" rail made a big difference over a 7" rail....so going a bit longer on the barrel helped. |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: IMI 77gr SMK's are about the same weight as 110gr V-max rounds. 55gr FMJ's are a bit lighter per bullet. At close(r) ranges, no, you are not missing anything. Biggest drawback to a super-shorty 300blk is rail space, especially on an AR-pistol where you can't run a VFG. My 7.5" 300blk is super compact, but even an 8" rail made a big difference over a 7" rail....so going a bit longer on the barrel helped. That's a good point, thanks. |
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Originally Posted By FrankW134: Lightweight, I'd go pencil profile 16" with M193. Ive never built a lightweight 300blk, it always turns into a short, stubby 12lb pig kitted out for NV shooting. Going for lightweight, I'd stick to minimalist while capitalizing on a fast and efficient load. We’re in the pistol subforum, he clearly wants something short. A 16” is not short. |
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At say 7.5" barrel, clearly the caliber that is more "designed" for s super short barrel is .300. Start to get into 10.5" (piston) or 11.5" I vote go 5.56. All depends on how small you want to go. For something like a PDW I'd say 300. |
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Originally Posted By Voland: Are you going to be running a can full time? If so, shorter is better. 16oz on the front of the 10.5 (i have an 11.5) does make a difference at the end of an 8 hour room cleaning class. Let’s say 90% of the time. That’s kind of how I got here. I’ve had to accept that my full time AR that I’m really comfortable with is just too awkward inside with a can on at 14+6. |
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Originally Posted By bluedog82: A lot of this will depend on how far you actually plan to shoot this thing. For a PDW style weapon, I love the .300blk. For more of an overt “primary weapon”, go with the 10.5” 5.56. 50m max. Inside, or if I’m outside I’m hiding out or running away for some reason until that’s not an option. Of course, in my head. The flexibility of 300 is attractive because who really knows sometimes how things will go. |
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When I was looking at these I considered several things: 1. I’m not one to stockpile ammo for 20 different types of calibers. I wanted to stick with 5.56. 2. I wanted as short and light as possible. 3. Something factory built to maintain the warranty. Yes I know there are only so many parts and lots are cheap. But I’f I’m paying those prices I want the warranty. I looked long and hard at the 7.5” Springfield Victor (since discontinued). I know people say you lose FPS with that length of barrel. I had no intentions of shooting it past 200 yds and realistically not past 100 yds. I also know I wanted short and light. I now find myself wanting a 10.5” .308. |
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I really like the Faxon Gunner profile barrels in terms of weight. I have a 7.5" and a 10.5" in 300blk. https://faxonfirearms.com/rifle-barrels/?_bc_fsnf=1&Barrel+Profile=Gunner&Barrel+Length=7.5%22] 7.5" barrel does limit rail space, but in terms of being a mobile, lightweight and versatile short(er) range weapon, it is a tough combo to beat. My major gripe is that they don't offer a 1:7 twist. It is either 1:5 or 1:8. The 1:5 twists can make the varmint rounds (110gr V-max, 110gr Varmageddon, 115gr Varminter/JHP) a little risky to run, especially with a can, but it allows you to run the super heavy subs like the 238gr and 242gr Makers. |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: I really like the Faxon Gunner profile barrels in terms of weight. I have a 7.5" and a 10.5" in 300blk. https://faxonfirearms.com/rifle-barrels/?_bc_fsnf=1&Barrel+Profile=Gunner&Barrel+Length=7.5%22] 7.5" barrel does limit rail space, but in terms of being a mobile, lightweight and versatile short(er) range weapon, it is a tough combo to beat. My major gripe is that they don't offer a 1:7 twist. It is either 1:5 or 1:8. The 1:5 twists can make the varmint rounds (110gr V-max, 110gr Varmageddon, 115gr Varminter/JHP) a little risky to run, especially with a can, but it allows you to run the super heavy subs like the 238gr and 242gr Makers. +1 I like Faxon. Like you I really wish they would make a 4150 CMV Gunner 300blk in 1:7 twist. I am not a fan of 1:5, especially in 416R. Not only does 416R wear faster than 4150/cmv, but technically faster twist rates wear faster as well. Never saw the logic of barrel manufacturers using softer steel with a harsher twist rate for a short AR/PDW that isn't intended for long range match grade accuracy. In the PDW scenario I want the durability of 4150/CMV over the claimed potential accuracy benefits of 416R and I want the flexibility of 1:7 twist. |
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I went with a 5" suppressed .300blk with a collapsing stock for my shorty As compact as an MP5 but still gets 110gr supers up around 1800-1900fps and runs 220gr subs no problem  It's not the lightest though. If you want that, take a look at this thread and prepare your wallet  https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/ULTRA-light-weight-picture-thread-the-under-6-crowd-/118-625051/ |
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This is getting to be kind of an old thread now, but I will say; Only go 300 BLK if you are going to suppress it and maybe use subs in the house. Of course it depends on what you are using it for... I like subs for in the house "bump in the night" problems, because I don't have to worry about noise and my wife can shoot it. I went Rattler PDW 6.75" barrel and folding stock for concealment, fits in my night stand drawer. If you want more power, go 10 or 11" 5.56 with good can. I also have an 11.5" with a can. Yes, use 77 grain OTM. Once you get to 10.5 or 11.5 adding a can makes it quite a bit longer weapon. |
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Originally Posted By ScottsBad: This is getting to be kind of an old thread now, but I will say; Only go 300 BLK if you are going to suppress it and maybe use subs in the house. Of course it depends on what you are using it for... I like subs for in the house "bump in the night" problems, because I don't have to worry about noise and my wife can shoot it. I went Rattler PDW 6.75" barrel and folding stock for concealment, fits in my night stand drawer. If you want more power, go 10 or 11" 5.56 with good can. I also have an 11.5" with a can. Yes, use 77 grain OTM. Once you get to 10.5 or 11.5 adding a can makes it quite a bit longer weapon. That would really depend on use-case. Suppressed subsonic, in-house only would be in the realm of 300blk, but that is one of the few specific niches where 9mm/45acp PCC's/chassis could make more sense, strictly from an ammo cost perspective. Federal 147/230 HST's are a lot cheaper than "good" expanding 300blk subs. By sticking to suppressed, subsonic only, that is artificially limiting the capability of the cartridge. From a power standpoint, it is the reverse if you use equal barrel lengths. Assuming both are using "good" supersonic projectiles: 62gr GD/Fusion = 110gr Tac-tx (expanding rounds) 77gr TMK/SMK = 110gr Vmax/Varmageddon, 115gr Varminter/JHP (fragmenting rounds) 300blk will always have more power (energy) at the muzzle at equal barrel lengths. The difference will be trajectory flatness, inherent accuracy and ammo cost. Fragmentation/expansion range will depend on the projectile and initial velocity (which will be impacted by barrel length as well). The shorter the barrel, the bigger the advantage becomes for 300blk. But NAS3 cases have made (somewhat) longer barrels a more viable option. Example, my unsuppressed 10.5" 300blk shoots NAS3 cased 120gr Tac-tx at 2250 fps. Given the G1 BC (.358) and low expansion floor (1350 fps), there isn't anything out of my 10.5" 5.56 that can match it in energy at the muzzle (1349 ft.lbs) nor throughout the entire expansion range. One would need an extra hot loaded, NAS3 cased 77gr TMK to break 1000 ft.lbs at the muzzle out of an unsuppressed 10.5" 5.56 (2420 fps), and that still would never catch the 120gr Tac-tx until both bullets hit the dirt. |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: That would really depend on use-case. Suppressed subsonic, in-house only would be in the realm of 300blk, but that is one of the few specific niches where 9mm/45acp PCC's/chassis could make more sense, strictly from an ammo cost perspective. Federal 147/230 HST's are a lot cheaper than "good" expanding 300blk subs. By sticking to suppressed, subsonic only, that is artificially limiting the capability of the cartridge. From a power standpoint, it is the reverse if you use equal barrel lengths. Assuming both are using "good" supersonic projectiles: 62gr GD/Fusion = 110gr Tac-tx (expanding rounds) 77gr TMK/SMK = 110gr Vmax/Varmageddon, 115gr Varminter/JHP (fragmenting rounds) 300blk will always have more power (energy) at the muzzle at equal barrel lengths. The difference will be trajectory flatness, inherent accuracy and ammo cost. Fragmentation/expansion range will depend on the projectile and initial velocity (which will be impacted by barrel length as well). The shorter the barrel, the bigger the advantage becomes for 300blk. But NAS3 cases have made (somewhat) longer barrels a more viable option. Example, my unsuppressed 10.5" 300blk shoots NAS3 cased 120gr Tac-tx at 2250 fps. Given the G1 BC (.358) and low expansion floor (1350 fps), there isn't anything out of my 10.5" 5.56 that can match it in energy at the muzzle (1349 ft.lbs) nor throughout the entire expansion range. One would need an extra hot loaded, NAS3 cased 77gr TMK to break 1000 ft.lbs at the muzzle out of an unsuppressed 10.5" 5.56 (2420 fps), and that still would never catch the 120gr Tac-tx until both bullets hit the dirt. I'm not sure where you were going with that. Ok, you are correct in some respects... But I'm not comparing barrel length to barrel length. AND I don't give that much thought to ammo cost for home defense/practice. I don't just burn 300blk like I would 9mm, but my circumstance allow me to somewhat disregard ammo costs. And I don't practice with the PDW that much, it's very much like an AR pistol. I was comparing 300blk subsonic out of, in my case, a Rattler LT 6.75" barrel with a 1/5 twist to an 11.5" 5.56 with 77 grain. The whole purpose of running subs in 300BLK (to me) is keeping the sound to a minimum, there is no other reason. The subsonic 300BLK is an iffy round when it comes to stopping a threat (Iffy expansion and barrier penetration) But the trade off is worth it If it can be used stealthily relative to a supersonic round. If I want (need) more "power" (I meant more stopping and barrier penetration power) I could go super sonic. Yeah, this could mean running supers in my Rattler, or grabbing my 11.5 AR with suppressor. Either supersonic solution would change the dynamic from stopping someone, to really fucking things up. I picked the Rattler in 300blk running subsonic for inside home defense, because it is "thud" quiet. If I needed more I'd probably use my 11.5 AR because I would be more effective with it. Not saying I couldn't accomplish a lot with 300 supers through the Rattler Just to touch your complete argument; In this day and age, I don't see 9mm PCCs as equivalent or as useful as subsonic 300BLK. I don't understand the purpose for 9mm PCCs when I have a 300BLK PDW or an AR. I probably own 75 firearms but no 9mm PCCs. I own lots of 9mm pistols, which is appropriate for the caliber, but PCCs for actual home defense don't make sense to me. I do understand your argument when it comes to .45 ACP. I don't know why people want to use 9mm PCCs when .45 is far better. One problem is the .45 PCC market is not as well refined. I have been slowly building an AR based .45 PCC, just to experiment with the round. I see 9mm PCCs as plinkers. |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: That would really depend on use-case. Suppressed subsonic, in-house only would be in the realm of 300blk, but that is one of the few specific niches where 9mm/45acp PCC's/chassis could make more sense, strictly from an ammo cost perspective. Federal 147/230 HST's are a lot cheaper than "good" expanding 300blk subs. By sticking to suppressed, subsonic only, that is artificially limiting the capability of the cartridge. From a power standpoint, it is the reverse if you use equal barrel lengths. Assuming both are using "good" supersonic projectiles: 62gr GD/Fusion = 110gr Tac-tx (expanding rounds) 77gr TMK/SMK = 110gr Vmax/Varmageddon, 115gr Varminter/JHP (fragmenting rounds) 300blk will always have more power (energy) at the muzzle at equal barrel lengths. The difference will be trajectory flatness, inherent accuracy and ammo cost. Fragmentation/expansion range will depend on the projectile and initial velocity (which will be impacted by barrel length as well). The shorter the barrel, the bigger the advantage becomes for 300blk. But NAS3 cases have made (somewhat) longer barrels a more viable option. Example, my unsuppressed 10.5" 300blk shoots NAS3 cased 120gr Tac-tx at 2250 fps. Given the G1 BC (.358) and low expansion floor (1350 fps), there isn't anything out of my 10.5" 5.56 that can match it in energy at the muzzle (1349 ft.lbs) nor throughout the entire expansion range. One would need an extra hot loaded, NAS3 cased 77gr TMK to break 1000 ft.lbs at the muzzle out of an unsuppressed 10.5" 5.56 (2420 fps), and that still would never catch the 120gr Tac-tx until both bullets hit the dirt. where are you getting nas3 cased ammo? honest question. I have minimal experience but I can do the physics/math, came to the same conclusion about 300blk/5.56. better for delivering energy out of short barrels than 5.56 in all situations. |
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Originally Posted By racer765: where are you getting nas3 cased ammo? honest question. I have minimal experience but I can do the physics/math, came to the same conclusion about 300blk/5.56. better for delivering energy out of short barrels than 5.56 in all situations. Badlands offers 110gr Tac-tx and 194gr Lehigh in NAS3. The Tac-tx is OOS right not. I don't think their Lehigh 194 offerings are worth it since it is the same weight and price as brass. https://badlandsmunitionsco.com/product-category/ammo/300-blackout-ammo/ Blackarc also offers 110gr Tac-tx and 194gr Lehigh in NAS3. Looks like both are in stock. https://blackarcmunitions.com/product-category/ammunition/300-blackout/ Phantom Defense is who I've ordered from as they have lots of offerings. 85gr Maker, 110gr Tac-tx, 120gr Tac-tx, 200gr Maker Rex, 238gr Fracturing sub (1:5 only) and 242gr Maker Rex (1:5 only) all in NAS3. Nothing is ever OOS for long. https://phantomdefense.co/shop-ammo/rifle-ammo/300-aac-blackout/ Always google for coupon codes before ordering from these places. Phantom Defense was running a free shipping code a week or two ago. |
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Even unsuppressed, .300 blk is typically much quieter than 5.56. It's still very loud unsuppressed, but even if you don't notice it in the moment, the damage to your ear drums (without protection) will be more severe with 5.56. Also, muzzle flash. Pretty sure at those lengths the 5.56 will have much more muzzle flash unsuppressed. Suppressed it will be less of an issue, the degree less depending on your can. In the moment of a "bump in the night" event, both, unsuppressed, will wreak havoc on your hearing without ear protection and your vision if there's no artificial lighting on, but if I had to choose one, it would be .300 blk. (Suppressed, subsonic, w/light). I don't know if anyone else lives in your home or stays with you, but for me, because of wanting to hear and see friendlies, any/all hearing and eyesight preservation is important in a HD setup. And, in the event of no suppressor, a flashlight failure and an electrical outage, .300 blk does the job and is easier on your senses. This reasoning is really a lot of "ifs", but contingencies are worth considering. Just know your safe shooting lanes w/300 blk, too, as it tends to be more barrier blind. This is one downside to .300 blk in a HD situation with friendlies in unknown positions. Many .300 blk rounds will happily pop through multiple layers of drywall and insulation without tumbling, and still be lethal. 5.56 will start to tumble and slow much sooner. |
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Originally Posted By ScottsBad: Either supersonic solution would change the dynamic from stopping someone, to really fucking things up. Lol. Great quote. Thanks all. I think in the end I'll end up going with a shorty piston 5.56 suppressed. I already have the platform, spare parts, spare can, ammo, etc. More of a peace of mind thing than an operational one, but I guess that's my deciding factor. |
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Originally Posted By Dolor: At say 7.5" barrel, clearly the caliber that is more "designed" for s super short barrel is .300. Start to get into 10.5" (piston) or 11.5" I vote go 5.56. All depends on how small you want to go. For something like a PDW I'd say 300. This |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: I really like the Faxon Gunner profile barrels in terms of weight. I have a 7.5" and a 10.5" in 300blk. https://faxonfirearms.com/rifle-barrels/?_bc_fsnf=1&Barrel+Profile=Gunner&Barrel+Length=7.5%22] 7.5" barrel does limit rail space, but in terms of being a mobile, lightweight and versatile short(er) range weapon, it is a tough combo to beat. My major gripe is that they don't offer a 1:7 twist. It is either 1:5 or 1:8. The 1:5 twists can make the varmint rounds (110gr V-max, 110gr Varmageddon, 115gr Varminter/JHP) a little risky to run, especially with a can, but it allows you to run the super heavy subs like the 238gr and 242gr Makers. I have that barrel on my 12.5" lightweight build (My main AR) as well and it's great. I also had it on my, now sold, 7.5" AR. I have been thinking about getting back into 300BO, but the ammo cost is my gripe |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: IMI 77gr SMK's are about the same weight as 110gr V-max rounds. 55gr FMJ's are a bit lighter per bullet. At close(r) ranges, no, you are not missing anything. Biggest drawback to a super-shorty 300blk is rail space, especially on an AR-pistol where you can't run a VFG. My 7.5" 300blk is super compact, but even an 8" rail made a big difference over a 7" rail....so going a bit longer on the barrel helped. rail space has NEVER been a issue 5" barrel .300 blk 5" HG (it has a twin in 7.62x39 with a 4.5" barrel that runs BEAUTIFULLY!)  good enough that SOCOM requested them in the form of the SIG Rattler which is what brought .300 blk out out of the .300 whisper wildcat closet into mainstream so I'm not second guessing the guys who go in in very small numbers to deal with very hostile people... figure I'll be fine here on USA soil with similar setups.............. ETA; the 5" HG recently got turned into a 4.5" so a can could be threaded on and the pistol grip got swapped to BCM Shorty with 20 round mags its easily deployed an accurate with the green dot+ 3x out to 300 yards+ backup mags are 30s |
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Originally Posted By mech-monsoon: rail space has NEVER been a issue 5" barrel .300 blk 5" HG (it has a twin in 7.62x39 with a 4.5" barrel that runs BEAUTIFULLY!) https://i.imgur.com/KsyNO6B.jpeg good enough that SOCOM requested them in the form of the SIG Rattler which is what brought .300 blk out out of the .300 whisper wildcat closet into mainstream so I'm not second guessing the guys who go in in very small numbers to deal with very hostile people... figure I'll be fine here on USA soil with similar setups.............. ETA; the 5" HG recently got turned into a 4.5" so a can could be threaded on and the pistol grip got swapped to BCM Shorty with 20 round mags its easily deployed an accurate with the green dot+ 3x out to 300 yards+ backup mags are 30s Keep in mind 5.5" Rattlers are not even made anymore for us civies (300blk is now 6.75" or 9"), and since this is the pistol forum, no 90 degree vertical grips for us. Plus Rattlers rails are a larger diameter, keeping you hand a little bit further away from a hot barrel. But it probably comes down to how you hold your weapon. I could not run your set-up. *My red dots are as far forward on the upper receiver rail as possible (without touching the handguard). *I have two point slings, and the front attachment is just forward of the barrel nut at the 10:30 position. *All of mine shorties have stubby angled foregrips, but they are towards the back of my hand. *Similar to yours, all of my lights are at the 12:00 position, but neither of us have room for BUIS. That somewhat bugs me. I do have red dots with solar back-up (three Romeo 4S's and a Romeo 4T), and my lights do have integrated green lasers as a secondary (TLR-RM 1 and 2's), but I still sometimes want that BUIS. There were some good photos of Lucus...which illustrates how I typically hold 300blks, along with where my slings are mounted. The last photo is exactly where my dot is at, along with where the sling mounts both front and back.     I usually have two fingers on the rail, and two fingers on a stubby angled grip (BCM, Strike, Kung Fu), with my thumb over the top. If my thumb isn't over the top, it is resting at 10:30. Either way, I'm trying to keep as much of my palm away from the barrel nut area as possible. I have mostly MI Combat rails and those slim MLOK rails can heat up. I do have an MI Combat quad rail, but as much as I try, I don't like quads. Sometimes I may slide my entire hand forward so my whole hand is on the rail (just the side of my pinky touching the stubby). Bit to do that, I need decent rails space less I go home short a digit or two...along with need more rail for my wrist to be comfortable at that angle. In the end, the more distance there is between my hand, the gas block, the gas tube, and the barrel nut...the better. That also tells me that I need to invest in some decent gloves. |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: Keep in mind 5.5" Rattlers are not even made anymore for us civies (300blk is now 6.75" or 9"), and since this is the pistol forum, no 90 degree vertical grips for us. Plus Rattlers rails are a larger diameter, keeping you hand a little bit further away from a hot barrel. But it probably comes down to how you hold your weapon. I could not run your set-up. *My red dots are as far forward on the upper receiver rail as possible (without touching the handguard). *I have two point slings, and the front attachment is just forward of the barrel nut at the 10:30 position. *All of mine shorties have stubby angled foregrips, but they are towards the back of my hand. *Similar to yours, all of my lights are at the 12:00 position, but neither of us have room for BUIS. That somewhat bugs me. I do have red dots with solar back-up (three Romeo 4S's and a Romeo 4T), and my lights do have integrated green lasers as a secondary (TLR-RM 1 and 2's), but I still sometimes want that BUIS. There were some good photos of Lucus...which illustrates how I typically hold 300blks, along with where my slings are mounted. The last photo is exactly where my dot is at, along with where the sling mounts both front and back. https://preview.redd.it/suggestion-keep-and-improve-the-thumb-over-bore-c-clamp-v0-gpy4bxqkftrf1.png?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=44edb025ddf0efcb51b6bcd12d238fb1f73009b8 https://preview.redd.it/suggestion-keep-and-improve-the-thumb-over-bore-c-clamp-v0-wjjhswqkftrf1.png?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=fd42264013dcdc2e14d5685c8782d30b44a05ecf https://preview.redd.it/suggestion-keep-and-improve-the-thumb-over-bore-c-clamp-v0-w3tcxsskftrf1.png?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=167fe50914a134aa6e0e9d8c50fb9a5585114986 https://preview.redd.it/suggestion-keep-and-improve-the-thumb-over-bore-c-clamp-v0-i1pytwqkftrf1.png?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=bf1c9682421d3911ba42b515aeb3f7d4c51023f5 I usually have two fingers on the rail, and two fingers on a stubby angled grip (BCM, Strike, Kung Fu), with my thumb over the top. If my thumb isn't over the top, it is resting at 10:30. Either way, I'm trying to keep as much of my palm away from the barrel nut area as possible. I have mostly MI Combat rails and those slim MLOK rails can heat up. I do have an MI Combat quad rail, but as much as I try, I don't like quads. Sometimes I may slide my entire hand forward so my whole hand is on the rail (just the side of my pinky touching the stubby). Bit to do that, I need decent rails space less I go home short a digit or two...along with need more rail for my wrist to be comfortable at that angle. In the end, the more distance there is between my hand, the gas block, the gas tube, and the barrel nut...the better. That also tells me that I need to invest in some decent gloves. Ya won't be using the same grip in a fight especially when the priority is a light CONCEALABLE weapons... ya gotta learn to adjust, Fought with AKs from an early age to a middle age... no long handguards to be found the comment quoted was in referewnce to not having enough rail space on shorter setups... I posted an example of a VERY short upper setup in .300 blk that is used regularily by guys fighting with those guns, commented on how it came into existance at the request of SOCOM and therefore I am perfectly fine with a .300 blk or 7.62x39 in a 5" configuration.... I was responding regarding the OPs criteria of a super short .300 blk vs a 10.5 in 5.56x45 (I have several of those as well) but as the poster I quoted reffered to rail space I selected a 5" .300 as my example of there not being any issue with a 5" hg and rail space that particular one now wears a SIG T4 as does its twin (7.62x39) and an EOTech 3x magnifier and at time that pic was taken it had a white light on it as I had just finished using it to check a camera being triggered on my 8 acre property .... in the Arizona Desert.... on whats refereed to as Cartel highway out here.. my guns are every one of them setup to fight I don't shoot in shooting games etc... I do have some experience in my almost 60 years in the fighting part and in the teaching part and 40+ years as a gunsmith primarily working on fighting guns not hunting guns or competition guns only fighting guns built for guys who know they will get used... that experience is what I draw on when responding to someone regarding a choice for a fighting gun... none of my shot timers have ever fired back at me but a few humans have so I prioritize whats important when dealing with humans... ETA; I know the 5.5 rattler isn't, I build my own version I like much better, but there was a reason SOCOM requested that configuration and its still a valid reason in both .300 blk as well as 7.62x39 in fact I think I actually like my 7.62x39 even more than all of the shorty .300s, again the reference was regarding a post about rail space.............. guys who fight with them have had no issues with rail space was why I posted my comment and the ONLY reason it was posted ETA2; none of my shorties have nor need vertical grips, as stated in the beginning grew up with AKs and been working with my hands my entire life don't notice any problems with hot barrels with the 5" mlok rails myself.. I generally burn up 300-500 rounds in an afternoon on my range out back running assorted drills haven't got burned yet BTW no offense meant or intended by any comments above, I admit to just skimming your post as I just got off after a 18 hour day hauling asphalt so am decidedly burned out... |
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