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Posted: 2/1/2019 7:23:49 AM EDT
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DM151, made by MEN in Germany. Tungsten Hard Core that can penetrate cat 4 vests up to 400m.
Very tight restrictions on getting any of these out of the factory, than out of Germany, and again into the USA. The one on top is a proof version of the DM151. Bottom is a Solid Armor Piercing Incendiary (SAPI) with tungsten core and exposed titanium tip. Wolfganggross 
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1:
I'm very curious as always about these claims of Level IV/Ceramic armor penetration out to hundreds of meters. I tested M993 the other day, and at 100 yd equivalent it could not penetrate NIJ level IV plates. |
Put down the Optic! Learn how to shoot the REAL way!
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1:
I'm very curious as always about these claims of Level IV/Ceramic armor penetration out to hundreds of meters. I tested M993 the other day, and at 100 yd equivalent it could not penetrate NIJ level IV plates. |
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Rounds are normally measured in mm of RHA penetrated as a homogenious universal tool that everyone around the world can use. It is the ballistic gel of AP. You can back into plate penetration estimates by using the stopped rounds penetration vs the unknown round. If lvl IV plates will stop 3006 blacktip at x velocity and blacktip penetrates y mm of RHA at x velocity, then you can estimate when M993 or M955 may or may not penetrate a lvl IV plate.
You wont know exactly since the max penetration of each round is always a little off and you may not know how much margin of safety was built into the plates since they are rated for a minimum. |
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Originally Posted By Davetrader:
Rounds are normally measured in mm of RHA penetrated as a homogenious universal tool that everyone around the world can use. It is the ballistic gel of AP. You can back into plate penetration estimates by using the stopped rounds penetration vs the unknown round. If lvl IV plates will stop 3006 blacktip at x velocity and blacktip penetrates y mm of RHA at x velocity, then you can estimate when M993 or M955 may or may not penetrate a lvl IV plate. You wont know exactly since the max penetration of each round is always a little off and you may not know how much margin of safety was built into the plates since they are rated for a minimum. |
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Originally Posted By mcantu: If you read the M993 spec, there is absolutely zero in it about penetrating body armor. It's all about defeating different types of metal plate armor at varying ranges. Same goes for M995 Originally Posted By mcantu: If you read the M993 spec, there is absolutely zero in it about penetrating body armor. It's all about defeating different types of metal plate armor at varying ranges. Same goes for M995 Originally Posted By Blain: What type of testing did you do with the M993? |
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All the info stated came from several of their pamphlets, all online. It mentions Cat 4 vests at 400m in one of them, and 15mm of steel sheets at 220yds in another. Personally never shot one in my life because at collectors prices they cost $150 each here in the USA. Two ways to increase the perforation of an AP bullet - increase the speed, or to increase the weight. There are formula's but it will just confuse people more. The DM151 projectile weighs 151gr, and the m993 are 125gr. NAMMO came out with the AP10 (M993 is AP8) which would be the DM151 comparison. (Also the 5.56mm-DM31, weighs 62gr. The M995/AP3 at 52gr. NAMMO came out with AP4 which is 62gr.) This would give MEN AP ammo a slightly better chance at performance over our current military line up. Titanium under extreme pressures self ignites and burns at around 3000 degrees. It takes about the speed of sound for an impact with a hard solid object for titanium to ignite. In a MEN pamphlet it states that because its a solid metal incendiary, its chemically stable. "Its main purpose is to punch through gas tanks and canisters to set the contents on fire". This round has the tungsten penetrator as well just behind the exposed titanium tip. Its other good use is in firecrackers, called "Titanium Salutes", for flash and brilliance of the concussion. Its the white "Stars" in the big overhead mortar type fireworks. (How Leigh Defense is getting away with their Titanium Flash Tips is another subject) |
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Wow! Very interesting rounds Wolfganggross. These are textbook quality sections, you are obviously very experienced at your game. I imagine that took a learning curve.
To get such a beautiful section with the internal penetrator part intact, does that mean you had to destroy more than one sample at $150 each? |
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AP11 has a lead core, not AP. But does prove my point that increase in mass improves penetration/ perforation. Russia bases a lot of this principle with the 9x39 or 12.5x55. Heard that they had AP11 at the Odessa sale a couple months ago, but you needed special classification in order to purchase. One section per cartridge, really no way to get 2 perfect primer holes without losing half the round. Being that they are so small. I've done a couple before. |
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Originally Posted By wolfganggross:
AP11 has a lead core, not AP. But does prove my point that increase in mass improves penetration/ perforation. Russia bases a lot of this principle with the 9x39 or 12.5x55. Heard that they had AP11 at the Odessa sale a couple months ago, but you needed special classification in order to purchase. One section per cartridge, really no way to get 2 perfect primer holes without losing half the round. Being that they are so small. I've done a couple before. |
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