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Posted: 12/10/2021 6:26:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: casktcrw][Edited]
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So I am thinking of buying a cheap micro clone. I was liking the offering from vortex but the mount is lower 1/3 height. That’s nice for when I later move it to I’m gone with iron sights, but I am wondering if it is less comfortable generally especially when I don’t have sites to clear. I am running an SL-K stock on a 556 gun I have heard that some find it less comfortable to get a cheekweld on the taller mounted sight |
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Originally Posted By casktcrw: If you say so. I asked what's more comfortable and I was answered something like don't worry about it. Originally Posted By casktcrw: Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: /thread means "end thread". "The question has been answered." If you say so. I asked what's more comfortable and I was answered something like don't worry about it. Nothing personal. My response was a bit flippant. |
> Have gun, will travel <
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To me, the difference really isn't noticeable. Again, to me, if you want a noticeable good difference go to 1.93. I like the taller mounts. Also keep in mind if you run a sig romeo 5 or holosun 4/5 series, they sit higher than an aimpoint. So an aftermarket absolute mount will really be lower 1/3 . A lower 1/3 aftermarket mount will have your red dot sitting to high to see buis through them. Solution, use qd mounts so you can easily remove your red dot to have access to your buis. |
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Attached File •Absolute cowitness – Optic is mounted at the same height as the iron sights or about 2.6″ above center of the bore •Lower 1/3 cowitness – optic is mounted slightly higher than the iron sights or about 2.8″ above center of the bore |
Can't never could 'til try came along.
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what "some find uncomfortable" and what you find comfortable are not necessarily the same thing. Honestly, your best bet is to try them to see what's comfortable for you if you're worried about it. A lot of people are moving to 1.93" and higher mounts. Absolute cowitness usually requires you to get your face jammed in tightly to the stock. lower third only slight less so. For shooting a red dot with both eyes open in settings other than a bench at the range, bringing the gun up naturally and having the optic come up in front of your eye and not needing to turtle your head down to get behind the optic is conducive to quicker and more natural shooting as well as better situational awareness. Some people hate the higher mounts, though. It's all about personal style and preference. Which is why it's hard for anyone here to give you advice about what you will find comfortable or prefer. |
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Originally Posted By casktcrw: So I am thinking of buying a cheap micro clone. I was liking the offering from vortex but the mount is lower 1/3 height. That’s nice for when I later move it to I’m gone with iron sights, but I am wondering if it is less comfortable generally especially when I don’t have sites to clear. I am running an SL-K stock on a 556 gun I have heard that some find it less comfortable to get a cheekweld on the taller mounted sight Lower 1/3 is fine and you still get solid cheek weld. It’s when you get into 1.93 you lose a little cheek weld and then the unity 2.2 height stuff you lose cheek weld. Lower 1/3 is my preference for red dots |
| Dude, you gotta try out different mount heights. It's like asking someone to choose your mattress or shoe inserts for you. No ones response will tell you what works for you, just what works for them. They are cheap enough and resell with negligible depreciation on the EE (you might lose 10$). |
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Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/416992/Screenshot_20211211-190047_Gallery_jpg-2200513.JPG •Absolute cowitness – Optic is mounted at the same height as the iron sights or about 2.6″ above center of the bore •Lower 1/3 cowitness – optic is mounted slightly higher than the iron sights or about 2.8″ above center of the bore |
Never confuse motion with progress; never confuse a college degree with intelligence.
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Originally Posted By carholio: To me, the difference really isn't noticeable. Again, to me, if you want a noticeable good difference go to 1.93. I like the taller mounts. Also keep in mind if you run a sig romeo 5 or holosun 4/5 series, they sit higher than an aimpoint. So an aftermarket absolute mount will really be lower 1/3 . A lower 1/3 aftermarket mount will have your red dot sitting to high to see buis through them. Solution, use qd mounts so you can easily remove your red dot to have access to your buis. I was looking at the vortex micro clone with flat battery and included 1/3 mount |
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1/3 cowitness shouldn't give too dissimilar of a cheek weld vs. absolute (iron-sight height). 1/3 cowitness is nicer on small-bodied microdots vs a full-sized 30mm red dot in my opinion, since the optical window is so small. If you buy the optic and run into problems with the 1/3, you can always get a different mount for an absolute cowitness. 
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I notice no perceptible difference between absolute and lower 1/3rd, and I'll guarantee you won't either I prefer lower 1/3rd due to sight interference especially with any form of fixed sight Im even a big proponent of the 2.26" height mounts like the Unity for certain setups and notice no difference with getting on the gun. |
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Originally Posted By casktcrw: I was looking at the vortex micro clone with flat battery and included 1/3 mount Yeah the holosun 403r's and sig romeo 5's come with mounts. I just don't trust them to survive a drop. Plus I like qd mounts more than fixed. I typically go with a lower 1/3 MI qd. They sit a little higher and if I'd need to use buis I can remove the dot site. I have no experience with Vortex micro's. |
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I have my T2 on a high mount (Unity Tactical) to be able to shoot through my PVS-14's and look over my Dbal D2. I have no problem easily hitting what I am aiming at day or night. For 5.56 cheek weld is completely over analyzed IMO unless you are shooting benchrest. You will see/feel no difference between co-witness and lower 1/3 co-witness. IMO the taller mount is more comfortable and heads up natural. This is just my experience and opinion. YMMV. Not mine, but you get the idea. 
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No man survives when freedom fails, the best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please.
No man survives when freedom fails, the best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please.
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Originally Posted By arNINJA15: Fundamentals of marksminship requires a cheekweld High bore seems to work for xtra tall men and SF dudes. Fighting by yourself requires backup sights and cheekweld Bro, I'm 5' 7"  Marksmanship fundamentals don't require a "cheek weld" they require consistency. |
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Originally Posted By casktcrw: So I am thinking of buying a cheap micro clone. I was liking the offering from vortex but the mount is lower 1/3 height. That’s nice for when I later move it to I’m gone with iron sights, but I am wondering if it is less comfortable generally especially when I don’t have sites to clear. I am running an SL-K stock on a 556 gun I have heard that some find it less comfortable to get a cheekweld on the taller mounted sight If I wasn't running an ACOG & RMR combo, and just a dot, I'd personally select a lower 1/3 as any higher than that things really start to get uncomfortable and futile for anything other than standing really. Nope, not for me. There's also another reason why I wouldn't want anything taller than a 1.70 maximum, but that would getting into the weeds really. |
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Originally Posted By Jonny1904: I believe that you're getting it confused between the 1/3 and much taller heights. Lower 1/3 is more comfortable to me than an absolute, which sits lower than a 1/3. It's all personal preference really, different body makes, different styles of shooting, etc. From sitting, kneeling, and prone, is where things start to get uncomfortable and cheek welds become chin welds the taller one goes past lower 1/3. The lower your body goes with the taller mounts, the less contact there is for a more precise shot, leading to a horrible presentation. If I wasn't running an ACOG & RMR combo, and just a dot, I'd personally select a lower 1/3 as any higher than that things really start to get uncomfortable and futile for anything other than standing really. Nope, not for me. There's also another reason why I wouldn't want anything taller than a 1.70 maximum, but that would getting into the weeds really. Absolute, lower 1/3, and 1.93  Absolute, lower 1/3, 1.93  Lower 1/3, 1.93, unity fast mount (2.26)  The differences between absolute and lower 1/3 are not very significant. |
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I just switched to an absolute from lower 1/3, and I can feel the difference. For my particular facial structure, absolute works worlds better. Others may have different experiences. I found that my weld was more floaty with the lower 1/3, and there is an ever so slight difference in the height over bore. I aslso like it because it's repeatbale whether you use your buis or not. In other words, you never have to change how you get on the gun. If you want to use the irons, you flip them up, and everything else stays the same. Just not a fan of having to change positions on the gun if I want to do something else. I have a Holosun 515, and I was using it with the mount it came with. I just happened to have an American Defense absolute co witness mount that I mistakenly ordered years ago. I forgot I had it until I came across a reddit thread discussing the difference between the Holosun and the T2, one of which I also have. I'm really a fan of absolute now that I've tried it. I will probably get another mount for the T2 in the not too distant future. Anyway, this particular AD mount does a perfect absolute cowitness with the Holosun 515. Other mounts don't work as well, and give you more like the lower 1/3, which was covered earlier in the thread. I don't know for certain, but I heard that they no longer make these mounts. Kind of glad I mistakenly ordered it back when I still had the 503. Tried to zero it today. I ended up with two broken cables on the indoor range. Started in one lane, couldn't get the target back. Got switched to a second lane, same thing. Finally moved to a 3rd lane, and by this time I was pretty flustered. I'm definitely on paper, but after running the 77 grain through the ballsitics calc at the less than advertised actual velocity through a 10.5 bbl, a 25 yard zero only puts me two inches high at 100 yds. I'm going to try and rezero at another range, and also, took the spacer out of the magnifier so I could use it as well. Luckily, the vortex micro clears the BUIS when using the MBUS pro. That's another thing to think about, as the magnifier might not allow for you to run a rear BUIS at absolute without coming into contact with it and not locking up. So, check that if you want to do absolute, because that could be an issue. |
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I prefer the lower 1/3 for a clearer sight picture, especially when using fixed iron sights. With flip up sights, it is not an issue. That said, it does take a lot of practice going from low ready to firing position, for me to have find a good check weld on the first try. I have the same issue when using scopes. However, depending of the rifle, if the scope is mounted too low, I have a hard time operating the charging handle. |
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Originally Posted By casktcrw: I like the acog height w both eyes open, i read it’s 2.7” over bore. This thread is long since relevant to the OP, but I think it’s important to note this: Absolute, lower 1/3, 1.7, 1.93 etc are referencing height of the optic over the top of the rail, not the height over the bore itself. The ACOG 2.7” is referring to height over bore. The ACOG height over the rail is around 1.5” or so, which is around absolute cowitness height. If OP bought a Unity 2.26 mount expecting it to be lower than an ACOG, he would be very surprised 
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Originally Posted By Stretchman: Tried to zero it today. I ended up with two broken cables on the indoor range. Started in one lane, couldn't get the target back. Got switched to a second lane, same thing. Finally moved to a 3rd lane, and by this time I was pretty flustered. I'm definitely on paper, but after running the 77 grain through the ballsitics calc at the less than advertised actual velocity through a 10.5 bbl, a 25 yard zero only puts me two inches high at 100 yds. Bruh, boresight. |
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
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Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: Bruh, boresight. Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: Originally Posted By Stretchman: Tried to zero it today. I ended up with two broken cables on the indoor range. Started in one lane, couldn't get the target back. Got switched to a second lane, same thing. Finally moved to a 3rd lane, and by this time I was pretty flustered. I'm definitely on paper, but after running the 77 grain through the ballsitics calc at the less than advertised actual velocity through a 10.5 bbl, a 25 yard zero only puts me two inches high at 100 yds. Bruh, boresight. This.^^^^ Pull the BCG, bag the stick, sight through the bore. EZPZ. |
"All welchers should be removed from the EE".-Aimless
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Originally Posted By TGWLDR: This.^^^^ Pull the BCG, bag the stick, sight through the bore. EZPZ. Yeah, I think I'm going to try the range again. I ran the load through a ballistics calculator, and with a 77 grain AAC round, through the 10.5 inch barrel, there's maybe a 2 inch rise after 25 yrds. That'as easy enough to live with, and virtually any range will have a 25 yard lane I can zero on. I can watch videos, read manuals, and do all of the other stuff, and for some reason, once I get out to the range, I go completely dyslexic and everything I studied about zeroing the sights goes out the window. There's some trial and error for me, but as long as I can get it slap on at 25 yds, I'll be happy and confident that it's zeroed best for my purposes. I took the spacer out of the vortex micro 3x, and will also have that with me on my next range trip. That's a big help, considering I can't really see anything at 25 yds, even with my glasses on. Getting old really sucks. Plus, the dot is about the size of the bull. I'm going to try to zero to the top of it. Wishful thinking on my part, mostly because I suck. But, at least I am having fun. |
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