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Posted: 5/5/2004 9:46:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/25/2005 9:29:30 PM EST by Matt_B]
Now that the AWB has sunset in most of the country, a lot of folks are looking to put a collapsible stock on their rifle. Inquiring minds post the question - "Which one is the best?" when the real question should be "Which one is the best for me based upon my needs?".  Ultimately, your decision as to which collapsible stock to by is a very personal choice. The best thing to do if at all possible is to shoulder a rifle with the stock on it. Finally, the ultimate goal of this thread is to give the reader a single source for information on the most popular collapsible stocks currently offered.

Anyway, when I was looking to upgrade the collapsible stocks on my ARs, I did a lot of research on the subject and decided to compile my findings so that others can benefit from them. The features listed below (in no particular order) are what I used to help decide which stock would be best for me.

The following data discusses (5) popular collapsible stocks. I will add information on others when requested and as time allows. Please note that the data I'm presenting is based upon personal experience (for the M93A, Vltor, std. M-4 and A2) and the experiences of fellow board members. Please feel free to chime in with your experiences and I will add them to this post. And it would be sincerely appreciated if you state why you like or don't like a particular stock. Statements along the lines of "It sucks. I don't like it" are not very helpful.

1) Cheek Weld - Does it have a consistent cheek weld regardless of how far it's extended or retracted? Is it comfortable?
MagPul M93A - The M93A offers a consistent cheek weld regardless of what position it's at and feels very similar to a fixed stock. However, if you like to shoot with your head way back on the stock (e.g. using a scope with long eye relief), your cheek may hang off the end of the buffer tube. But have no fear, there is word that there maybe an extension cover available from MagPul for this. Bear in mind, of course, that when this cover is installed the stock may not be able to close. We'll have to wait and see though.

Ace M4 SOCOM - The buffer tube of the M4 SOCOM stock has a closed-cell foam overtube which provides a comfortable cheek weld. But, more importantly, because of the way the stock itself functions, your cheek can rest on the foam in most shooting positions. This is a major difference between the M4 SOCOM stock and conventional collapsible stock designs.

LMT SOPMOD - Comfortable cheek weld though you may find your cheek on the buffer tube based upon how far the stock is extended. If you're using a magnified optic, you may find your cheek on the buffer tube depending on the required eye relief for your optic.

Vltor - Better cheek weld than a std. M4 stock but, if your have facial hair, your whiskers may get caught in the little "teeth" of the battery compartments. If you're using magnified optics, you may encounter the same shortcomings as with the LMT SOPMOD.

Standard M-4 - Since the profile of the stock is round (compared to the more triangular profile of the LMT SOPMOD and Vltor), this is considered the least comfortable out of the 4. Same shortcomings as the LMT and Vltor.

2) Rigidity - How solid is the stock compared to a fixed stock? Does it rattle or make noise?
MagPul M93A - This stock is as solid as a fixed stock and I've never heard anyone have problems with it being noisy.

Ace M4 SOCOM - There have been no reports to indicate this stock is anything but rock solid and noise free.

LMT SOPMOD - Based upon LMT's overall quality, I'm guessing that this stock will be pretty solid and won't rattle much if at all. But, based upon the fact that it's still the same basic design as the standard M-4 stock, I highly doubt it will be as solid as a fixed stock.

Vltor - Pretty much the same as the LMT SOPMOD from everything I've read.

Standard M-4 - It's a crap shoot as to how solid and rattle free any given standard M-4 stock will be. I had (2) of this type of stock from RRA and each rattled, one slightly worse than the other. However, many people have purchased RRA stocks and not experienced any rattle.

3) Durability - How well does it stand up to abuse?
MagPul M93A - There were a couple of reports of early M93s with tailpieces that broke after being slammed on the ground during clearance drills but they didn't break very easily. The M93A2 now comes an aluminum refinforcement bracket to address any possiblity of the tailpiece seperating due to extreme abuse and this bracket can be purchased seperately for $12.95 to retrofit earlier versions of the M93 and M93A.

Ace M4 SOCOM - This stock features a propritary receiver extension has an ambi-sling mount/gusset right behind the receiver that adds reinforcement to the weakest point on the tube. I haven't found any reports of anyone breaking this stock and the manufacturer claims that their receiver extension is b times stronger than an A2 stock.  

LMT SOPMOD - There were a few reports of the early SOPMOD stocks (not the LMT versions) breaking in during clearance drills or from being dropped. The new version of the SOPMOD stock from LMT is reportedly made from stronger materials to address this problem.

Vltor - Anyone hear any accounts of Vltor stocks breaking? Please share your experiences on this topic!

Standard M-4 - Considering how long this style stock has been in use in the field, I'd be really surprised if at least a few of these have not been broken because of abuse. I'll look for more information when it comes back on-line.

4) Ease of Use - Is it easy to operate with gloves on and/or under stress?
MagPul M93A - Since the basic operation of this stock is different than all the others, it does take a wee bit getting used to but, once you are used to it, I feel it's just as easy to operate. The M93A is the only stock that allows the user to set-up presets so you can instantly open the stock to the exact length of pull you prefer.

Ace M4 SOCOM - This stock can be quickly adjusted via a push button on the stock. It functions a bit differently than the standard M-4 stock.

LMT SOPMOD - This operates just like a standard M-4 stock so there is zero learning curve (assuming you've used a M-4 stock before).

Vltor - Same as LMT SOPMOD and M-4

Standard M-4 - Same as LMT SOPMOD and Vltor

5) Adjustability - How many positions does it have? Can it be easily opened to your preferred LOP
MagPul M93A - This stock offers more positions (8) than any other stock on the market. It is also the only stock that allows the user to set-up LOP presets. Fully collapsed, it's about .25" longer than the M-4 closed (10.04" LOP). When fully extended, it's about .5 longer than an A2 stock (13.98" LOP). Clearly, the M93A offers more adjustability than any of the other 3 stocks.

Ace M4 SOCOM - This stock has 5 positions in 1/2" increments and it comes with either a 1.0" or 0.5" recoil pad. There are no preset options.  There are 2 versions of thi stock available. The shorter version has a length of pull (without a recoil pad) that can be adjusted from 11.0" to 13.0". The longer version has a length of pull (without a recoil pad) that can be adjusted from 13.0" to 15.0".

Also, for folks in states that still have an AWB, you can swap out the push-button with a supplied set-screw to "fix" the stock at the user specified length.

LMT SOPMOD - This requires a mil-spec buffer tube which are available in either 4 or 5 position versions. If you use a 4 position buffer tube, the minimum LOP will be 11" and the maximum LOP will be  14.25" which makes the LMT SOPMOD stock the longest one out of the box.

Vltor - This requires a mil-spec buffer tube which are available in either 4 or 5 position versions. The buffer tube offered by Vltor as 5 positions. Minimum LOP is 10" and maximum LOP is 13.32".  There are rubber butt pads available for this stock if you want to increase the LOP.

Standard M-4 - These do not require mil-spec buffer tubes with the exception of genuine Colt stocks. Buffer tubes are available with 4, 5 or 6 positions and I believe there is even a 7 position one now. Minimum LOP is 9.84" and maximum LOP (with a 4 position buffer tube) is 13.18". If you use a 5 position buffer tube, the max LOP will be right around 13.32" If you use a 6 position buffer tube, the max LOP will be around 14". There are also rubber butt pads available for this stock if you want to increase the LOP.

6) Storage Options - Does it offer compartments for storing batteries, spare parts, etc.?
MagPul M93A - There are currently no storage compartments available for this stock though they are planned for the near future. I s/w Richard Fitzpatrick (the owner of MagPul Industries) today and he informed me that, at this time, the planned storage compartment for the M93A will be triangular and hold either (6) AA batteries or (9) DL123 batteries. This information is of course subject to change but regardless of any changes, there will be a storage compartment available.

Ace M4 SOCOM - There are currently no storage options for this stock.

LMT SOPMOD - This stock comes with (2) battery storage tubes that will hold, IIRC, (2) AA batteries or (3) DL123 batteries. The stock itself has to be removed from the buffer tube in order to open the storage tubes.

Vltor - This stock is available with either carbine length storage tubes or rifle length storage tubes. The carbine tubes will hold (1) AA battery or (2) DL123 batteries. The rifle length storage tubes will hold (2) AA batteries or (3) DL123 batteries. You do not have to remove the stock to access the storage tubes.

Standard M-4 - There are currently no storage options for this stock that I am aware of.

7) Sling Mounting Options - What sling mounting options are available for it?
MagPul M93A - MagPul currently offers both a full loop or HK hook style receiver sling mounts. The last time I checked, Richard (the man behind Magpul) was making a few receiver mounted QD sling mounts. I managed to snag 3 of them for my ARs and my shotty. I don't know what the official status on these is though.

Ace M4 SOCOM - There are 4 sling mounting points on this stock. One ambidextrous mount at the receiver and 3 on the rear of the stock. I have not found any information as to whether this stock can use the standard receiver sling mounts. If someone can confirm whether this style of sling mount can be used on the M4 SOCOM, please let me know.

LMT SOPMOD - Since it's very similar to the standard M-4 stock, this stock should be able to use any of the sling mounting options currently available for the standard M-4 stock.

Vltor - In addition to having (2) integral ambidextrous QD sling sleeves, this stock can also use any of the currently available sling mounts for the standard M-4 stock.

Standard M-4 - The variety sling mounts available for the standard M-4 stock are such that there is something available for everyone, regardless of your needs.

8) Ease of Installation - How easy or difficult is it to install?
MagPul M93A - The M93A requires replacing the weapon's original buffer tube with it's own proprietary version. Installation of the M93A buffer tube may require the use of included shims and these shims may have to be thinned in order to achiever proper timing of the buffer tube. Installation of the claw locks and claw lock spacer is not very difficult though the tight tolerances of these parts may cause the installer "minor anxiety" because they don't want to break anything. If you feel comfortable installing a standard M-4 stock, then installing the M93A will most likely not pose a problem for you.

Ace M4 SOCOM - From the information I have gathered, this stock is easy to install as easy (if not easier) to install than the standard M-4 style stock.

LMT SOPMOD - If your weapon has a mil-spec buffer tube already installed, then all
you will have to do is pop off the old stock and pop on the LMT SOPMOD. If not, installation of a mil-spec buffer tube is very quick and easy. If you feel comfortable installing a pistol grip, then installing a mil-spec buffer tube will not pose a problem for you.

Vltor -  Same as the LMT SOPMOD stock.

Standard M-4 - Same as the LMT SOPMOD and Vltor stocks though non-Colt collapsible stocks can use a mil-spec buffer tube though it will result a slightly looser fit and, as a result, more rattle.

9) Cost - Something to consider but the highest quality stock with the most features never comes cheap.
MagPul M93A - The retail price for a complete M93A stock kit (stock and buffer tube) is currently $225, shipping included. Street price for this stock is only slightly less ($200-$219) and that price may or may not include shipping.

Ace M4 SOCOM - The average street price on this stock is around $160.00 and does not include a buffer or spring.

LMT SOPMOD - The current retail price on the LMT SOPMOD stock is $199 and mil-spec buffer tubes run $34-$47. The street price on this stock will probably drop a bit when they are readily available.

Vltor -  The current retail price on the Vltor Carbine modstock is $114.95 with short storage tubes or $119.95 with long storage tubes. If you do not already have a mil-spec buffer tube on your rifle (Bushmaster and RRA are not mil-spec tubes),  Vltor offers one $47.00. The street -price on the stock is around $109 and buffer tubes run $40-$47

Standard M-4 - The current retail price for a non-Colt (e.g. RRA and Bushmaster) M-4 stocks is $90-$100 with the street price running $69-$100. Genuine factory Colt M-4 stocks kits (buffer tube, buffer, spring, and stock) are running around $150.

10) Weight -Please note that listed weights do include a carbine buffer and spring. I should also mention that some shooters consider having a heavier stock a good thing because it helps to balance the weapon better. To quote Richard Fitzpatrick, "It's better to have a balanced rifle that weighs 9 lbs. than an unbalanced one that weight 7 lbs."
MagPul M93A - 17 oz.  

Ace M4 SOCOM - 16.5 oz

LMT SOPMOD - 16 oz.

Vltor
Carbine Standard w/compartments, caps and sling swivel - 11.7 oz.
Carbine Standard w/cheek weld adapters and sling swivel - 10.7 oz.
Carbine Clubfoot w/compartments, caps and sling swivel - 11.6 oz.
Carbine Clubfoot w/cheek weld adapters and sling swivel - 10.6 oz.

M-4 style - 10.8 oz.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:49:24 PM EST
Well done. Too much time on your hands.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:51:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:53:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 9:54:03 PM EST by Matt_B]
Sweet!!!! I don't friggin' believe it!!! I started a tacked post. Thank you Troy.

BTW, I think I would like to take any information anyone has and add it to the first post to keep it relevant and up-to-date.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:59:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By FiveO:
Well done. Too much time on your hands.



Actually, it probably took me about 3 hours to write and since I get so much from this site, I decided it was time to give something back.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 10:05:10 AM EST
Nothing on the Ace Ltd M4 SOCOM?
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 10:16:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 12:10:26 PM EST by Matt_B]

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
Nothing on the Ace Ltd M4 SOCOM?



Well, to be blunt, that wasn't one of the stocks I was looking at when I was doing my research. I'd be more than happy to add it to the list when I have time.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 11:39:46 AM EST
IIRC the new real Colt M4 stocks are in the $150 range.  That is for the stock, tube, spring & 'H' buffer.
YMMV
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 11:50:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By TriggerFish:
IIRC the new real Colt M4 stocks are in the $150 range.  That is for the stock, tube, spring & 'H' buffer.
YMMV



Thanks for the info TriggerFish. I've updated my original post accordingly.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:56:55 PM EST

Originally Posted by Matt_B: "I s/w Richard Fitzpatrick (the owner of MagPul Industries) today and he informed me that, at this time, the planned storage compartment for the M93A will be triangular and hold either (6) AA batteries or (9) DL123 batteries."


Interesting.  
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 9:07:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Matt_B:

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
Nothing on the Ace Ltd M4 SOCOM?



Well, to be blunt, that wasn't one of the stocks I was looking at when I was doing my research. I'd be more than happy to add it to the list when I have time.



and when either the Search function is working again -or- when some people post their experiences with them.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 9:22:34 PM EST
Matt_B,
You da MAN!!!
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 8:18:40 PM EST
Ace Socom M4:
1. Cheek weld stays the same in all positions.

2. No rattles or noises whatsoever. Not a fixed stock, but almost.

3. Supposed to be 6x stronger than a A2. No personal torture tests.

4. Easy to use button/allen bolt. Tighten bolt to lock it in place, but still not post ban legal.

5. 4 positions including fully collapsed. Unable to lock for certain positions like M93/A.

6. None.

7. 3 built in slots. One single point slot, one M4 type(around the end of the buffer tube/ upper rear of stock), and one on the bottom, front of the stock(same area like A2).

8. Easy intall. 5-10 min.

9. About $155 complete plus shipping.

                                                         Flashlegs
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 10:17:03 PM EST
I just got a magpul stock about a month ago and love it.  This thing is rock solid and the multiple adjustments are a huge hit with women shooters and my boys.  Everyone can adjust it exactly as they like it and when you lock it it becomes even more solid.  Installation really isn't that hard and it comes with a virtual manual with lots of drawings.

I'm very interested in the upcoming storage thing.  Will this be an add on or a new stock altogether?
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 10:08:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By flashlegs:
Ace Socom M4:
1. Cheek weld stays the same in all positions.

2. No rattles or noises whatsoever. Not a fixed stock, but almost.

3. Supposed to be 6x stronger than a A2. No personal torture tests.

4. Easy to use button/allen bolt. Tighten bolt to lock it in place, but still not post ban legal.

5. 4 positions including fully collapsed. Unable to lock for certain positions like M93/A.

6. None.

7. 3 built in slots. One single point slot, one M4 type(around the end of the buffer tube/ upper rear of stock), and one on the bottom, front of the stock(same area like A2).

8. Easy intall. 5-10 min.

9. About $155 complete plus shipping.

                                                         Flashlegs



The ACE M4 socom stock is perfectly legal for a post-ban once you remove the bush button and replace it with the fixed bolt. Just an FYI
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 4:26:23 PM EST
Aim4MyHead, do you mean, replaced and welded? I thought you couldn't pin collapsibles to be postban legal. It seems like if you just replaced the bolt without a button function, it would be like a pin. Where did you see it was approved?
Flashlegs
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 5:37:06 PM EST
Vltor
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 5:40:12 PM EST
well the dealer i use who also serves other L.E.O's and is completely straight with the BATFEis the one who sold me the stock and informed me with info as he was removing the  push button. I have 100% confidence in his knowledge of the law. If you want i can contact him for the exact details.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:18:58 PM EST
Aim4MyHead, I read in some posts regarding pining collapsibles and they had letters from BATFE that the pins must be welded to be postban legal. I'm sure whenever someone that has that letter saved reads our posts, they'll probably post it again or link us to it. I'm sure your dealer know's the laws, but when it comes to collapsibles, alot of people tend to stretch it a bit. I think you should contact the BATFE to make sure your not illegal by accident.
Flashlegs
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 10:26:13 PM EST
I dunno about the legality or illegality of the method of rendering a "collapsable" stock "non-collapsble," but I do know one thing: NEVER EVER take anyone's word on ANYTHING involving BATF, unless it is in writing on an official BATF letterhead, from either their Legal or Tech Division.

Not trying to flame anyone at all, just urging caution, as a letter on official letterhead carries far more weight should it ever come to court. (Not that it is likely)

It's been pointed out on several boards, that if you call three or four BATF Offices, talk to three or four different agents, on any given subject, you are quite likely going to get more than one answer conflicting with other answers.

Call me paranoid if you wish, but I had it pounded into my thick skull, many years ago, "If it is NOT written down, it didn't happen...DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT!"
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 7:21:28 PM EST
It's always been my understanding that in order to be post-ban legal, pinned pre-ban stocks couldn't be "easily converted" back to their original state - i.e. stocks had to be welded, blind pinned, etc...
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 10:04:24 PM EST
EXCELLENT and timely post. I agree with everything I read. I really want to get one of the LMT Crane stocks!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 11:36:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/11/2004 12:04:26 AM EST by AK_Mike]
Good review except that when it comes to the Magpul 93A, you are assuming that the shooter is using a nose to charging handle weld.  Most do.  However, the cheek weld is less than desireable if you tend to hang way back on the stock (like I do) leaving an edge and large gap to weld to, unlike the Vltor and Crane.  I am told that an extension cover may be available for the M93A in the future that addresses this problem for some, however.

When it comes to cost, with the Magpul requires one to buy and install a new tube whereas the others don't for the most part.  One can eliminate the cost of buying a new tube with the others if one already has a milspec tube.  My non-Colt Bushy/RRA M4 stocks fit on Milspec buffer tubes. Non-Colt stocks DO fit on milspec tubes, but Colt and Vltors do not fit on non-milspec tubes.

The Vltor uses the KAC style sling swivels so it can also take the KAC QD Eyelets as well meaning it's also set up for HK hooks, ambi on each point, and no other mounts are required for purchase - only extra swivels or the eyelets if one so desires.

Rubber buttpads, increasing LOP, are available for both the Vltor and the M4 types.

Durability.  There are reports of the original Crane stocks shattering upon buttstrikes or drops.  The LMT Crane stocks are supposed to be made of an improved material.  The Magpul M93A is supposed to have a metal strike plate available in the future.

None of the above remarks is intended to disparage the M93A or patronize the Vltor, they are just observations.  I have every stock mentioned and each has it's strengths and weaknesses.  The M93A is by far the most advanced stock and the Vltor the most improved of the standard styles.

Good work Matt,  carry on!
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 7:58:58 PM EST
pictures?
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 10:31:08 AM EST
AK_Mike, thank you for the excellent information. I have integrated it into my original post.

One question regarding non-Colt M-4 stocks (e.g. Bushmaster/RRA) being used with mil-spec tubes, they will have a slightly loose fit, right? I recall mil spec tubes being slightly smaller than non-mil spec tubes. If this is true, I imagine there might be a bit of a rattle. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, regarding the sling mounts on the Vltor, I did edit my original post to include the fact that the integral swivel sleeves are ambidextrous but I also stated in my original post that the Vltor can use any of the currently available M-4 sling mounts so that would cover using any style of sling attachment be it HK style hooks or loop style mounts.

flashlegs, I'll probably add the Ace SOCOM M4 stock to my original post this weekend. I want to do a bit more research on it first.

simonsay, I'll look into adding some pictures when time allows.

Thanks again to everyone for their help. I don't claim to know everything about collapsible stocks but I do want to help gather all the information into one thread so maybe we can stop answering the same question as to which collapsible stock is the best.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 10:33:40 AM EST
One other thing I wanted to mention regarding this thread. I really don't want to discuss whether or not certain collapsible stocks can be made post-ban legal or not. The purpose of this thread is to help people chose the right collapsible stock for them. Period. This thread assumes that the reader is looking to put an actual collapsible stock on their AR and not some "faux" version.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 12:13:49 PM EST
I would first like to thank you for this post.  I am going through the stock buying ordeal as we speak although it is for a recently redone and refinished preban.  I have a vltor stock tube so my choice would be between the Vltor and the LMT.  

What I think would make this post really kick some serious ass is if people would get together and post some detailed pictures of the different stocks.  Not just one normal picture from the side for very detailed pictures.  

Thanks again,
James
Link Posted: 5/21/2004 6:22:50 PM EST
I went ahead and payed for my LMT Crane stock so I should have it in a few days.  I will post some pictures of it for this thread.  Maybe it will help someone else.  I went with a leap of faith and went with the LMT, hope it is worth twice as much as the Vltor.

James
Link Posted: 5/21/2004 6:30:30 PM EST
Excellent post, thanks and tagged.

Come on Sept. 14!

Danny
Link Posted: 5/24/2004 4:05:08 PM EST
I received my LMT Crane Stock today From MSTN and thought I would contribute to this post as well.Fit and finish are excellent.It fits nice and snug on my Colt Tube.The cheek weld is awsome.The rubber pad at the end seems very secure and is really comfortable to shoulder as well.

I will probably replace my other stock with one of the LMT Cranes as well.

Here are some pics.



Link Posted: 5/26/2004 2:31:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/26/2004 2:34:19 PM EST by WILSON]
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 2:43:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2004 4:15:20 PM EST by Matt_B]
<center><table width=85% border=0><tr><td width=100% class=textBody><hr height=1px color=black noshade>Originally Posted By WILSON:
<center><table width=85% border=0><tr><td width=100% class=textBody><hr height=1px color=black noshade>Originally Posted By AK_Mike:
Good review except that when it comes to the Magpul 93A, you are assuming that the shooter is using a nose to charging handle weld.

Are you calling me a "stock crawler"?!? Why, I've never,..... well, okay, ... so there was that one time I got "tattooed"...

~

BTW, GREAT thread Matt!

I'd love to hear more about what owners think of the Ace SOCOM (NOT the legalities, just how they handle, etc.).

Thank you Wilson. I'd like to add more stocks to this but I really need the Search function to be back on-line to do it right. I'm also going to need a little help when it comes time to start looking at stock weights. I figure folks who are building ultra lights or need a heavier stock to balance their rifle will appreciate the weight info. I've been thinking about creating a chart of some sort of a quick overview but I really haven't devoted any CPU (brain) cycles to it yet.

I'd like to create a similar thread on vertical grips as well but one thing at a time. Besides, there are so many different vertical grips available, it would take a while to compile all the info.

I'm just sick of seeing "vs." threads on gear. I mean, come on people. The word "versus" denotes confrontation and the different pieces of gear aren't fighting among themselves. Threads of that nature should be "or" threads IMHO. We've all got our preferences for certain pieces of gear but, more often than not, it's just that - personal preference. What works for you may not work for me. There aren't that many pieces of complete crap out there (like the 2X Aimpoint). The whole point is being able to get enough good information to make an informed choice that you will hopefully be happy with.

Ok, I'm done with my rant. We now return you to your original thread already in progress.
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 3:13:19 PM EST
I would like to see pics of the stocks mentioned as well as who sells them.
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 3:18:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By StewartTR:
I would like to see pics of the stocks mentioned as well as who sells them.



Well, pics will be added eventually for all the stocks I'm covering. The LMT Crane is already in here (thanks Jm03).

As far as dealers go, just look in the EE. There are plenty of reputable dealers who sell all the stocks mentioned.
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 3:49:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/26/2004 4:34:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By WILSON:
This is taken directly from Ace Ltd's site, so take it FWIW:

M4 SOCOM Designed with input from combat experienced SF soldiers. This is the strongest production AR15/M16 stock available! Approximately 6 times stronger than an AR15 A2 stock & receiver extension tube. Ideal for CQB or breaching doors, and without the fear of bending the receiver extension tube ( which disables the rifle ). Adjustable length of pull, adjusts from 7.5" to 9.5" in five 1/2" increments. The M4 SOCOM comes with extra hardware so that it can be set up as a push button quick adjustable stock for "pre-ban" or "exempt" use; or as an adjustable stock for post ban use! ( M4 SOCOM has not been approved by the BATF for post ban use ).Closed-cell foam overtube provides an extremely comfortable cheek weld. This stock mounts "rock solid' to the rifle with no movement making it an ideal stock for precision shooting as well. Ambi-sling mount / gusset reinforces the receiver extension tube at its weakest point- just behind the receiver. Four 1.5" totally quiet and fail safe machined in sling-slots allows optimum sling mount flexibility. With the 1.0" pad it is also ideal for use with .50 BMG AR uppers. Comes with your choice of 1.0" or .5" recoil pads. Uses carbine length buffer and spring ( not included ). L.O.P. fully collapsed 11.0 " and fully extended 13.0" without recoil pad.
Weight: 460g (16.5 oz) M4 SOCOM - $184.99



(The dealers here will usually do a little better on the price - if you can find the things in stock!)



Yeah, I've got that info at home but I'm waiting to get more unbiased info.
Link Posted: 5/27/2004 8:34:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/27/2004 8:35:39 PM EST by mo4040]
I am now the owner of three different types of collapsing stocks:

1) Generic aftermarket Colt collapsable (in my case, it is a Bushmaster)

2) Ace M4 Socom

3) Magpul M93A

The first type is common and thus will not need further comment......

The Ace M4 is a nice stock; it is solid, good looking, and does not rattle. It is heavier than
the "colt" type collapsables, but, it is way tougher. The Ace M4 offers a comfortable cheekweld and has smooth edges. The two gripes I have about the Ace M4 are:

1) it's weight.....

2) the stock feels somewhat "gritty" when sliding it between positions (remedied with a little lube?).......


The Magpul M93A is also another very nice piece of gear. It is also heavier than the generic colt stock, but again, it is also more durable. I have not done a weight comparison between the Ace and the Magpul, but, I'd guess the Ace is slightly heavier. The Magpul has a good cheek-weld and does not rattle. I have two gripes about the Magpul M93A:

1) When the stock is in or near it's fully closed position, the locking lever rubs/bumps/interferes with  the wrist of the firing hand....

2) The edges (especially around the buttplate) are rough and are irritating on bare skin.....

The rough edges can be remedied with some fine grit sand paper. Additionally, someone needs to make a slip-on butt pad for this stock. Failing that, I will look into making a butt pad using a computer mouse pad.

Between the M93A and the M4 Socom, each stock has it's pluses and minuses. The M93A is slightly lighter and has a slightly longer length of pull, but, it is hard on the arms due to it's roughness. The M93A has upcoming modular features that the M4 Socom does not.

In conclusion, both stocks are good and as time and technology march forward, stock development will get us closer to the "perfect" stock.

Link Posted: 5/31/2004 1:37:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/31/2004 2:01:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/31/2004 2:01:51 AM EST by Zaphod]
Matt,

Glad you posted this, because my standard M4 stock just went TU.

In the meantime, I found this: www.oa2.org/features.php?id=1415.

I'm going to read it now. Hope it's good.
Link Posted: 5/31/2004 4:58:37 PM EST
I like the standard Colt 4-pos.

The only gripe I have, is ever once-n-awhile, it yanks out a whisker, ouch!

Don't know if any of the other models mentioned would be any better?

Would shave, but my wife likes the free moustache rides!

She'll kill me, or quit riding, if she reads this!

May just have to go with a A1 or A2, and keep everybody happy!

teamroper2004
Link Posted: 6/3/2004 2:07:28 PM EST
This thread needs a poll
Link Posted: 6/3/2004 2:43:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2004 2:44:31 PM EST by stony275]

Originally Posted By Matt_B:
 
LMT Crane - This stock comes with (2) battery storage tubes that will hold, IIRC, (2) AA batteries or (3) DL123 batteries. The stock does have to be removed in order to open the storage tubes.



So if I understand this correctly, I have to remove the stock from the buffer tube in order to access my batteries in the storage tubes?
Link Posted: 6/3/2004 2:48:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Freakzilla:
This thread needs a poll



Considering there's a smiley face on the end, I'll assume you are joking.
Link Posted: 6/3/2004 2:49:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By stony275:

Originally Posted By Matt_B:
 
LMT Crane - This stock comes with (2) battery storage tubes that will hold, IIRC, (2) AA batteries or (3) DL123 batteries. The stock does have to be removed in order to open the storage tubes.



So if I understand this correctly, I have to remove the stock from the buffer tube in order to access my batteries in the storage tubes?



Yes, you are correct. I will re-word my post so this is more clear. Sorry for the confusion.
Link Posted: 6/4/2004 11:42:37 PM EST
I just wanted to clarify.  I wouldn't consider  your post poorly worded.

If I'm in the field and need to access fresh batteries for my EOTech or Surefire,  I'm not sure I want to have to partially disassemble my weapon in order to do that.  Would I have to drive out a pin on the latch to remove the stock, or can I remove the stock without taking off the latch?

I'm  trying to decide if I want to get the LMT/Crane or the VLTOR for my shorty here in Iraq.
Link Posted: 6/5/2004 12:29:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By stony275:
I just wanted to clarify.  I wouldn't consider  your post poorly worded..



Thank you but after re-reading it, I thought I could be more concise. I consider myself to be little vague at times


If I'm in the field and need to access fresh batteries for my EOTech or Surefire,  I'm not sure I want to have to partially disassemble my weapon in order to do that.  Would I have to drive out a pin on the latch to remove the stock, or can I remove the stock without taking off the latch?

I'm  trying to decide if I want to get the LMT/Crane or the VLTOR for my shorty here in Iraq.



You would just have to push down on the rear of the latch so the the retaining post (or whatever it's called...sorry, it's way past my bed time) comes down low enough to pull the stock off the buffer tube. It's no different than removing a standard M-4 stock from the buffer tube.
Link Posted: 6/6/2004 10:53:36 PM EST
Every time I open this thread I get the itch to say screw it, blow off my wife and put this thing on the credit card.... I want the "Meat Hammer" so bad I can taste the ground beef.... I just noticed today they are making a longer length version of it now... I'll stick with the shorter "Meat Hammer". Looks like I'll be going down to the organ doner section of the equipment exchange this week so see if I can trade in a kidney for one.
Link Posted: 6/18/2004 1:39:54 PM EST
After several trips to the blood bank....
The KittyHammer™
Link Posted: 6/18/2004 7:42:24 PM EST
Hey Kitty-

Do you own a Lambretta?

ls
Link Posted: 6/18/2004 11:19:11 PM EST
No ls, but I've had this

since 1986.  T. Fish
Link Posted: 6/22/2004 10:21:50 AM EST
One other thing I like about the Vltor is the ability to remove the cheek piece when shooting with a gas mask.  

In fact, I'd like to see a quick disconnect feature added to the Vltor so this could be done quickly and without the use of an allen wrench.

With your fixed cheek piece stocks, this is not possible...short of pulling the buttstock completely off and firing that way with a gas mask, something I've been forced to do a few times in order to get a better sight picture in MOPP.
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