AR Sponsor
Can the ammo really be THAT BAD, or is something up with this rig? (Subsonic Suppressed SBR Content)
Joined:
Mar 2022
Posts:
523
EE: 98% (45)
VT, USA
Posted: 5/13/2025 9:22:58 PM EDT
|
Okay so we're working with a buddy's Daniel Defense PDW in .300BLK. OCL Polo 30 (and a BRT gas tube to make everything else run right, which I just installed for him and tested), L3H NGAL, and brand new EXPS-2 he wanted me to mount and zero. He wanted a 50/200yd zero, and he insisted the NGAL was already perfectly zero'd AT 50, so I thought cool ... no problem. ... but I decided to check that before bringing the EXPS in using the green dot as a starting point. Buddy brought some STELTH 220gr subs. Fine for 50yds, but I knew I would have to dip into my own Hornady 110 for the 200yd check, but that's another story. The story for tonight is .... watching through a 40X spotting scope, I put the green dot dead center in the bullseye, and from a bench at 50yds ... these here are the best results of the night.  And this is at 50yds, so safe to say this is currently a 6 or 8 MOA rig at 100yds. No wind, no wobble, no poor trigger behavior, no any other discernible culprit. Just hits on paper ALL OVER THE PLACE. No discernible grouping. I couldn't really ask him about prior behavior with supers because if you can't tell, this is a guy who brings his gear to me to install, not just gas tubes, but optics. new safety levers, etc. More of an "owner" than a shooter, if you know what I mean. When I run my LMT MRP with the 10.5" .300BLK barrel, with my go-to subs, the NOSLER 220gr Match HPBT, at 50 yds I just DO NOT GET results like this from a benchrest. Mind you, I'm not making one ragged hole or anything, but this is much worse than what I'm used to seeing, all other things being equal. SO what do y'all think? Either this is some of the worst factory-new ammo I have ever tried, or there's something wrong here. His NGAL is legit, or it's the best fake I've ever seen. Everything on the rig is nice and tight. What could it be, besides either REALLY crappy ammo or possibly a malfunctioning NGAL (not something you see every day lol) We lost the sun before I could run and grab either my Hornady 110 Supers or the NOSLER 220 Match, but I will be taking another look tomorrow. In the meantime, you all have any idea what could be the problem here? Can ammo even GET this bad, or is there something wrong with his laser or what? |
Member
Joined:
Feb 2024
Posts:
83
EE: 0% (0)
AZ, USA
|
What is the twist rate of his barrel? Without good target backing it’s tough to tell if the bullet holes are round ir not, but inadequate stabilization can cause this effect. Or the bullets or the load may be not that good. Too low a velocity could also be a cause, some subs are well below 1000 fps. How does it shoot with known good ammo? . |
| If his barrel is a faster twist (1:5) and those stealth 220s are still the plated bullets, they don't work together. The fast twist seems to cause the plating to disintegrate. I'd definitely try some quality ammo first. Also check for any baffle kisses/strikes. |
"My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori." -Wilfred Owen
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori." -Wilfred Owen
Joined:
Mar 2022
Posts:
524
EE: 98% (45)
VT, USA
|
Originally Posted By Bye_Felicia: If his barrel is a faster twist (1:5) and those stealth 220s are still the plated bullets, they don't work together. The fast twist seems to cause the plating to disintegrate. I'd definitely try some quality ammo first. Also check for any baffle kisses/strikes. Originally Posted By Bye_Felicia: If his barrel is a faster twist (1:5) and those stealth 220s are still the plated bullets, they don't work together. The fast twist seems to cause the plating to disintegrate. I'd definitely try some quality ammo first. Also check for any baffle kisses/strikes. Originally Posted By ForwardResist: What is the twist rate of his barrel? Without good target backing it’s tough to tell if the bullet holes are round ir not, but inadequate stabilization can cause this effect. Or the bullets or the load may be not that good. Too low a velocity could also be a cause, some subs are well below 1000 fps. How does it shoot with known good ammo? This is a Daniel Defense PDW; 8" barrel, 1:7 twist. I used to own one and I never got results like this. Now, it was "never no darn bullseye stick" like Granpappy used to say, even with supers, but it was never like this. I have some Hornady Black 208gr Subs I will be trying today. No baffle strikes, nothing to do with the can (I'm actually a fan of the older-style baffle cans, especially OCLs. A properly selected BRT gas tube and the right spring makes for a perfectly tuned rig and, with the exception of some of these crazy new designs like PTR VENT and such, many of these new designs just are not as quiet.) It's not a stabilization issue all. I've seen what that looks like and this isn't that. I will post back later with results from the better ammo. |
Member
Joined:
Feb 2025
Posts:
22
EE: 0% (0)
IA, USA
|
After reading your post along with the comments and replies, Man that's a tough one! You've already eliminated the main culprits, you said everything was right and tight and shooting from a bench eliminating all of the possible shooter errors. A while back, I had a guy bring me his AR and it was doing something similar. After a thorough inspection inside the handguard area, I noticed his angled grip mounting back wasn't sitting in the inner MLOK channel and was actually touching the barrel just forward of his gas block. this applied just enough pleasure to un-float the barrel. like I said, this is a tough one. Trying different ammo is going to answer some things though. |
|
An eotech was mentioned, but was that used to shoot the group? I wouldn't use a laser for shooting groups, but you still should have been able to do better than that at 50. I'm not gonna say that Daniel Defense never makes a mistake, but they generally build good stuff. I'd look to the ammo. I had a 300BO barrel at one time that spit shotgun patterns with some ammo. As for the 50/200 zero, I doubt that's gonna happen with a 300BO. It'll be more like 50/100 or 50/125 with supers. Subs are gonna have a trajectory more like a .22lr. |
Can the ammo really be THAT BAD, or is something up with this rig? (Subsonic Suppressed SBR Content)
AR Sponsor