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Posted: 7/7/2025 10:16:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: FritzTKatt][Edited]
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The other day I took this gun out shooting, all was good. Had it leaned up in the gun rack, come back five minutes later, she’s laying on the floor in a proverbial puddle of misery. I think the cat decided to go at the sling dangling. Dangit. Unknown what hit first. Everything looks fine, all tight, from suppressor to optic. Take it out, shoots right where it’s supposed to at 100yds with two different loads. Fast forward a few days, blasting steel on the 4th, gun cools down and MD comes off before silencer. Backup wrench easily got MD from can, nothing crazy. Odd, as I put the MD on about 40ftlbs, years ago, no issue. Yesterday go to clean it and reinstall the MD. Nothing seemed out of place. I cleaned the bit of baked neverseize off the threads, which seem just fine. Put some neverseize on there, took it up to about 35-40ftlbs with a 3/4” open end (I’m no he-man, trust my hand is pretty well calibrated). Then attribute the whole thing to the falling over causing enough stress on the muzzle threads to allow it to loosen while it was flexed/vibrating, particularly over the years of heating/cooling cycles, finally worked loose. MD has no timing, so I didn’t go for any washers or blue-loctite. Then I clean the bore for storage, and look down the muzzle to see it sparkle… where I find this… ring? Stretch/yield? I cannot feel it using a small probe. It doesn’t appear the lands are misaligned to my eye (also very calibrated). Sorry for the potato pics. Goes without saying that it has never been fired with an obstructed bore of any kind, and I never noticed it before. I only looked from chamber end to see suppressor alignment after it was knocked. Assuming I stretched the barrel at the thread shoulder from over-torque. Faxon 350L barrel, 1/2” thread, griffin universal TM adapter, BW46 can. ETA: misfire on the post. Was still messing with trying to get pics uploaded. Standby.  
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Originally Posted By jntmjt1: Based on the info you provided, I'd almost guarantee you that ring has been there all along. That almost certainly is from manufacturing. JT Tool chatter? It’s almost damn near the shoulder/thread juncture. Just far enough down that I can’t really see it. NFW could I have done that with a brass or CF cleaning rod. Closest I’ve seen is a Colt M4 that had no rifling for approximately 2”, about centered on the gas port. Approximately a W192 or W193XXX serial number range. Like a dang chunk of bore was just never there. Motivated devil dog tells me he knows he sucks at shooting, but still thinks his rifle is actually fucked up, while not wanting to be a bitch and whine about it, since he was still making qual by a couple points. So I looked at it, to see that trash. |
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Originally Posted By jntmjt1: Based on the info you provided, I'd almost guarantee you that ring has been there all along. That almost certainly is from manufacturing. JT Originally Posted By 18B30: FPNI...... Agreed. |
"All welchers should be removed from the EE".-Aimless
Messure from end of barrel muzzle, to barrel shoulder. If same to distortion line in bore, could be first FS was over torqued, or you over torqued, to cause the barrel distortion problem. Since you mentioned Suppressor in play, not hard shorten the barrel at start point off shoulder and re-thread, blind pin install the Suppressor adapter to the barrel to make it 16" legal from face of bolt, and just carry on with life. Hell, about half the time, I end up re-crowning new producton barrels, since they tend to be a shite-show to start with instead. |
Posted By PlaymoreMinds:
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds...
<---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind.
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds...
<---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind.
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I’m not inclined to think that the original MD install distorted the barrel, since after the first ladder test, I had it threatening 1MOA. I don’t think that a distorted barrel would ever shoot straight and/or pattern nicely. No? Again, this was a few years ago. It largely held group size, but given it’s intended use, I switched to a more bulk-loading process, which yields more like 1-1/2 to 2moa ammo, to save myself some trouble… after all, 2moa is plenty to hit a freakin deer at <50yds. It’s pretty consistently thrown those 165gr FTX into such group size. Yesterday I fired off a group with that bullet, in brass headed for the trash can. I expected somewhat mediocre performance from this batch. I got what I asked for with those. A separate batch of ammo using virgin brass and a 170gr IntLk gave me the expected 2moa territory from that bullet and a thrown charge. Which makes me think the barrel is fine. The taper-mount MD timing must actually matter in this case at least, as I had approximately a 2moa POI shift. Both projectiles falling into the same general POI, as previous/expected. I do not believe oil, a la CLP, would ring the barrel in this case, since I store muzzle-up. We would all have messed up guns by now. I also don’t store them sloppy wet with oil. Water, particularly condensation is very possible. It is a hunting weapon, it does go out in the field. While the couple times I’ve had it out in the rain it didn’t get fired. If a silencer allowed enough condensation to register as an obstruction and ring, I think we would all have screwed up guns by now. Right? I have taken it out from air conditioning to balls hot+humid and dumped a few rounds for the lulz. There is of course always condensation from the combustion, that definitely gets trapped by silencers. I can just cut this barrel as short as I care, it is a pistol. However it is a Gunner profile, and thusly taking any more than a crown-job off wouldn’t leave enough shoulder to re-thread. TLDR… It seems fine. Can’t be that bad if it shoots straight and didn’t blow up. ETA: if I did distort it on the initial install, big kudos to faxon for making a barrel that still shoots good after some idiot screwed it up. |
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As lysanderxiii stated. ^^^ Firing the rifle with water or oil in the bore. The bullet eventually rides up over the liquid and forces it outward. Since liquids do not compress very well, it forces the barrel metal to expand at that point. |
"All welchers should be removed from the EE".-Aimless
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Mother…r… I’d call that the “same damn thing”. Estimated liquid in that (enfield?) bore? What’s the story on that, Lysander? ETA: still going to be confused as to how I managed to get enough liquid in the bore, while also (as above) store not-wet, muzzle up, and haven’t shot it in the rain. Hell, aren’t you supposed to be able to fire a M4 like four-seconds drain after complete submersion? |
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Originally Posted By USMC2111: Another question: why are you putting a suppressor mount on with Never Seize and not RockSet or at a minimum Red Locktite? That's the reason you had it come off. |
Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
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Originally Posted By FritzTKatt: Mother…r… I’d call that the “same damn thing”. Estimated liquid in that (enfield?) bore? What’s the story on that, Lysander? ETA: still going to be confused as to how I managed to get enough liquid in the bore, while also (as above) store not-wet, muzzle up, and haven’t shot it in the rain. Originally Posted By FritzTKatt: Mother…r… I’d call that the “same damn thing”. Estimated liquid in that (enfield?) bore? What’s the story on that, Lysander? ETA: still going to be confused as to how I managed to get enough liquid in the bore, while also (as above) store not-wet, muzzle up, and haven’t shot it in the rain. A small drop or one big enough to close the bore will leave pretty much the same size ring. The bullet will move most all the liquid out of the way and only the film that coats the bullet will ring the bore. The viscosity of the fluid is the major determiner of the ring size and depth. No additional information on the Enfield, other that there was liquid in the bore. Originally Posted By FritzTKatt: Hell, aren’t you supposed to be able to fire a M4 like four-seconds drain after complete submersion? Well, first you are supposed to drain the water from the barrel. With water, the air in front of the bullet gets pushed out of the barrel as the bullet moves down the bore. This is normally is enough to blow any small water drops out ahead of the bullet. Oil or grease is the usual suspect it rings like yours and the pictured Enfield. |
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It’s a TM adapter. So it literally might as well be a DT. Since it doesn’t have to be clocked, historically using neverseize and getting it nice n tight means it stays put until abused. Generally, to remove the can, I try with just wrist, grabbing the can by the spanner and twisting the rifle, then go to two wrenches. Effectively, I should never be able to loosen the MD, using either hand strength alone, or a backup wrench. The underlying issue here wasn’t the thread-goop choice, it was apparently too much CLP left in the bore. Seems the thread/shoulder junction is about the thinnest part of this barrel. Already stressed steel, massive vibration/flex from being knocked over, super easy for me to see how the threads would loosen. So… am I not supposed to finish cleaning by using a patch with a few drops of oil to protect the bore? Otherwise I have no idea where I went wrong with the ringing. Eta: as a maintainer, I try to use neverseize whenever possible. In most cases, it works just as good as (lower grade) loctite. I’ve had scope mounts loosen with blue on the threads plenty of times. Been using NS to mount for years now, no issues. Then, the junk all comes apart no problem when I tell it to. Granted, different application, but demonstrating the concept, particularly when everyone has had an optic work loose. |
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Originally Posted By lysanderxiii: A small drop or one big enough to close the bore will leave pretty much the same size ring. The bullet will move most all the liquid out of the way and only the film that coats the bullet will ring the bore. The viscosity of the fluid is the major determiner of the ring size and depth. No additional information on the Enfield, other that there was liquid in the bore. Well, first you are supposed to drain the water from the barrel. With water, the air in front of the bullet gets pushed out of the barrel as the bullet moves down the bore. This is normally is enough to blow any small water drops out ahead of the bullet. Oil or grease is the usual suspect it rings like yours and the pictured Enfield. Originally Posted By lysanderxiii: Originally Posted By FritzTKatt: Mother…r… I’d call that the “same damn thing”. Estimated liquid in that (enfield?) bore? What’s the story on that, Lysander? ETA: still going to be confused as to how I managed to get enough liquid in the bore, while also (as above) store not-wet, muzzle up, and haven’t shot it in the rain. A small drop or one big enough to close the bore will leave pretty much the same size ring. The bullet will move most all the liquid out of the way and only the film that coats the bullet will ring the bore. The viscosity of the fluid is the major determiner of the ring size and depth. No additional information on the Enfield, other that there was liquid in the bore. Originally Posted By FritzTKatt: Hell, aren’t you supposed to be able to fire a M4 like four-seconds drain after complete submersion? Well, first you are supposed to drain the water from the barrel. With water, the air in front of the bullet gets pushed out of the barrel as the bullet moves down the bore. This is normally is enough to blow any small water drops out ahead of the bullet. Oil or grease is the usual suspect it rings like yours and the pictured Enfield. Youre also supposed to retracted the charging handle a little when draining water. Its like removing your thumb from a straw |
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Originally Posted By FritzTKatt: So… am I not supposed to finish cleaning by using a patch with a few drops of oil to protect the bore? Otherwise I have no idea where I went wrong with the ringing. You can, you just need to run a dry patch down the bore before use. Don’t worry about the thread locker on the muzzle device. I use a drop of synthetic ATF on all of mine to keep them from getting seized. I’ve never had anything loosen up or get stuck on, to include direct thread cans. |
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Originally Posted By lysanderxiii: A small drop or one big enough to close the bore will leave pretty much the same size ring. The bullet will move most all the liquid out of the way and only the film that coats the bullet will ring the bore. The viscosity of the fluid is the major determiner of the ring size and depth. No additional information on the Enfield, other that there was liquid in the bore. Well, first you are supposed to drain the water from the barrel. With water, the air in front of the bullet gets pushed out of the barrel as the bullet moves down the bore. This is normally is enough to blow any small water drops out ahead of the bullet. Oil or grease is the usual suspect it rings like yours and the pictured Enfield. Originally Posted By lysanderxiii: Originally Posted By FritzTKatt: Mother…r… I’d call that the “same damn thing”. Estimated liquid in that (enfield?) bore? What’s the story on that, Lysander? ETA: still going to be confused as to how I managed to get enough liquid in the bore, while also (as above) store not-wet, muzzle up, and haven’t shot it in the rain. A small drop or one big enough to close the bore will leave pretty much the same size ring. The bullet will move most all the liquid out of the way and only the film that coats the bullet will ring the bore. The viscosity of the fluid is the major determiner of the ring size and depth. No additional information on the Enfield, other that there was liquid in the bore. Originally Posted By FritzTKatt: Hell, aren’t you supposed to be able to fire a M4 like four-seconds drain after complete submersion? Well, first you are supposed to drain the water from the barrel. With water, the air in front of the bullet gets pushed out of the barrel as the bullet moves down the bore. This is normally is enough to blow any small water drops out ahead of the bullet. Oil or grease is the usual suspect it rings like yours and the pictured Enfield. There is also usually a bit of propellant gas blow-by before the bullet seats in the leade of the rifling as well. That should be enough to blow out a few water drops. |
Preferred Pronoun: Space Lord Mutherfucker
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Originally Posted By FritzTKatt: It’s a TM adapter. So it literally might as well be a DT. Since it doesn’t have to be clocked, historically using neverseize and getting it nice n tight means it stays put until abused. Generally, to remove the can, I try with just wrist, grabbing the can by the spanner and twisting the rifle, then go to two wrenches. Effectively, I should never be able to loosen the MD, using either hand strength alone, or a backup wrench. The underlying issue here wasn’t the thread-goop choice, it was apparently too much CLP left in the bore. Seems the thread/shoulder junction is about the thinnest part of this barrel. Already stressed steel, massive vibration/flex from being knocked over, super easy for me to see how the threads would loosen. So… am I not supposed to finish cleaning by using a patch with a few drops of oil to protect the bore? Otherwise I have no idea where I went wrong with the ringing. Eta: as a maintainer, I try to use neverseize whenever possible. In most cases, it works just as good as (lower grade) loctite. I’ve had scope mounts loosen with blue on the threads plenty of times. Been using NS to mount for years now, no issues. Then, the junk all comes apart no problem when I tell it to. Granted, different application, but demonstrating the concept, particularly when everyone has had an optic work loose. I always oily patch and then pass a dry patch to ensure there is only a tiny film left. |
Preferred Pronoun: Space Lord Mutherfucker
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Originally Posted By lysanderxiii: That is a classic example of a liquid bore obstruction. https://i.imgur.com/BLOTKC2.jpg Also could have had a bit of mud in it. |
Preferred Pronoun: Space Lord Mutherfucker
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