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Are good 1-4x LPVOs just dead n gone? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/16/2026 10:51:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Brahmzy][Edited]
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Something with true 1x performance on-par with today’s best 1-6 / 1-8 LPVOs, but obviously a smaller, lighter form-factor. Do such things exist anymore? Tons of fixed 4xish options (prisms n such) or probably some crap options with crap glass and/or heavy as hell, long etc. Anything? Seems like the race to higher mag left a big gap where people are still wanting something lighter and smaller with true 1x. Surprised Primary Arms doesn’t have a quality PLxC 1-4 RDB, or even 1-6 but smaller than their 1-8. I think that would sell like a mofo. It seems like instead of working on the form-factor and keeping weight in the 12-14oz area, they just stuffed 1-6x and 1-8x into the larger scope bodies and worked on perfecting them in those heavier, larger sizes. They just skipped right over trying to optimize and perfect something smaller and lighter. EDIT: Looks like Trijicon (of course) is still selling their Accupoint 1-4x at 14.4oz and a long 10.3” length with garbage reticle options. Credo is a heavy long thing. Nightforce needs a NX6 or NX4 line with a high-quality, small form-factor 1-4x with solid 1x performance. |
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Originally Posted By gtsteve03: Why would they? 8x or 10x is mo betta than 4x. The buying public wants bigger numbers. The market for lightweight goes RDS or prism. We should have both options. Fixed mags aren’t necessarily always the answer. I love my ACOGs, but I realize their fixed-mag shortcomings. |
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Originally Posted By Brahmzy: 17.3oz, 10.3” long Might as well go PLxC 1-8 RDB Originally Posted By Brahmzy: Originally Posted By nick_valentine: The Steiner P4XI is a respectable 1-4. 17.3oz, 10.3” long Might as well go PLxC 1-8 RDB I think you just answered own question. What if a 4x can't be made reasonably smaller than a 6 or 8x? |
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Originally Posted By Brahmzy: 23.1oz for that thing. How much will your 30mm mount weigh? Most standard, solid non-LW options on the market weigh about 8oz. If that's the case, your 1-4x optic would need to be 15.0oz to be lighter than the elcan. That's definitely lighter than most of the options on the market. |
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Vortex corssfire2 1-4 is 15.3 oz. Not the lightest but lighter than most 1-6 https://vortexoptics.com/crossfire-hd-1-4x24-illuminated-dead-hold-2a-bdc-moa-riflescope.html |
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People chase numbers. The market wants a 1-bajillion that’s 6” long and 10oz. This is partly because the average gun buyer doesn’t shoot their guns much. If they did? They’d realize the shortcomings of chasing said numbers, and that often an optic can be quantitatively impressive and qualitatively trash. Look at our discussions here regarding the NX8 vs NX6. I’ve said before that the NX8 is the ‘worst good’ LPVO, and I stand by that. Of course it’s not trash, it’s a 2k optic, but I’ll say it’s the only premium optic I’ve ever picked up and immediately knew I wouldn’t be keeping it. Meanwhile the NX6 I have a fondness for, and consider it to be a tremendous leap forward for NF LPVOs. Yet on paper the NX6 is worse than the NX8 in every way. Bigger, heavier, less magnification, plus you’d figure the lower cost would denote lower quality (just a function of less glass, but you know, assumptions and all). I think 1-6 is the sweet spot, and offers very little compromise over a 1-4 for considerably more magnification. 1-8 is stretching it but the juice can be worth the squeeze depending on specifics, same for 1-10 too etc. I have to think any new design that comes out today will be a 1-6 at a minimum , but there are some examples of legacy scopes that still hold their own. I have some nice glass, but I have a soft spot for the P4xi and will likely always have at least one. They were a lot cooler when they were 400 brand new, but they’re still exceptional scopes and it’s a shame they get overlooked |
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A local is selling 3 old stock new in box for $150 a piece Ive owned a few. Sold the last 1 together with a camp45 Very sharp light small scope just based on the design and magnification range. Hard to screw that up WEAVER CLASSIC RIFLESCOPE V-SERIES MODEL 849400 1-3x20mm https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/WTS-New-Old-Stock-Weaver-Classic-1-3-Scope-Made-in-Japan-/23-2595545/ |
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Originally Posted By MJ11B4P: Leupold’s Mark 4 HD comes in a 1-4x that’s actually 1x unlike the old 1.5-4x I have an older 1.5-4x VX-R Patrol and the new Mark 4 HD is on my short list to replace it. This one would be on my short list. I’ve not messed with the 1-4.5 and don’t really have need for it, but if I did. I’ve had a great experience with its 2.5-10 FFP TMR cousin and they did a great job with the Mk4HD line in general. Enough that they have to intentionally hamstring the line with less reticle options to keep the Mk5 line’s sales boosted. |
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After buying/trying everything, I think this is the best 1-4x. - < 15 oz all in (ACOG, Mount, RDS) - tough - hands free switching between 1x/4x - can shoot rds piggy back or rotate rifle 45' and pick up dot with left eye (will hold A zone out to 100Y using piggy back @ 45' cant) - NSN model gives clear accurate crosshair with BDC drops (I don't use illumination for magnification anyways, tritium is fine for low light) Attached File |
Isaiah 1:18 - "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD: "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow"
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The Leupold Mark 4HD 1-4.5 is a sold choice. The Steiner is another, if you can swing the fee, Kahles 1-6 is awesome. Thing is most folks over scope a rifle, especially carbines and hunting rifles. I'll leave the SFP/FFP topic alone but note the above scopes. I would hope for the "system", Eotech expands the Vudo line to include a 1-4 or 1-6, SFP. |
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So the MK4 HD at 18oz and 10.7” long proves my point. While I’m sure it’s great, it’s just as heavy and big as the 1-6 and 1-8 LPVOs. The older VX-R Patrol 1.5-4 form factor is more what I’m trying to make a point about. Anybody can make a decent 1-4 in a large heavy form factor. Why didn’t the industry dump R&D $$$ and focus on a 1-4 in the VX-R type form factor. |
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Originally Posted By JHans7663: Always wished the little Leupold 1.5-4 could have came with a slightly better reticle. Paired with a true 1x. Those were great lightweight scopes, but at true 1x, they wouldn't have weighed 9.6 ounces. 1x requires a reducing lens, which adds weight. Most LPVOs significantly less than 16 ounces are 1.25-1.5x on the low end. The tech is advanced enough today that there isn't much size or weight difference between a 1-4x and a 1-6x. Throw in that everybody decided for no good reason that 1" tubes were bad for all applications, and scopes are heavier across the board compared to 10 years ago, so now 1-4xs don't have much of a market. |
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Originally Posted By Brahmzy: Good standard lightweight mounts are all in the 5.6oz area. Reptilia 30mm 1.7” mount as an example. That's where manufacturers should look at incorporating modular mounts into these types of scopes. Between the scope and mount, if one can shave 4-6 ounces, maybe more? |
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I have a really old, probably over 20 years old, Leupold VX II 1-4 20mm 1” tube - Matte Duplex scope mounted in an LT104-1 - LaRue SPR M4 1.5 1” cantilevered mount. Tons of rounds have gone down the tube on that AR15 A3 with a 20" barrel. Old school. Simple. I'll keep it. It is also FRTed, so the extra weight of the 20" barrel smooths out the firing I also have a Leupold 1.5-5x20 30mm VX-III illuminated German #4 dot in a cantilevered scope mount - LT104-30 - LaRue SPR M4 1.5”. I'll keep this. I can shoot open eyes at 1.5x and it doesn't bother me. I have a couple each of more modern LPVOs in illuminated 1-6, 1-8, and 1-10 versions. I really like these. I like my old light and simple 1-4 and I don't plan on replacing it. It is a nice rifle/scope combination to hand somebody new to demonstrate to them how it was back in the day. The Leupold 1.5-5 is a step up from that. But, I love the technology available on the newer, generally much heavier, versions. I have purchased 5 LPVOs 1-6 and above this year. I'm going to purchase either two more LPVOs 1-8 or above or two MPVOs. I am learning towards two MPVOs because they are 18" SPRish builds. |
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Originally Posted By Fooboy: After buying/trying everything, I think this is the best 1-4x. - < 15 oz all in (ACOG, Mount, RDS) - tough - hands free switching between 1x/4x - can shoot rds piggy back or rotate rifle 45' and pick up dot with left eye (will hold A zone out to 100Y using piggy back @ 45' cant) - NSN model gives clear accurate crosshair with BDC drops (I don't use illumination for magnification anyways, tritium is fine for low light) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/113559/IMG_9501_jpeg-3812744.JPG This. Not perfect, but nothing is. |
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Originally Posted By viator: I have a really old, probably over 20 years old, Leupold VX II 1-4 20mm 1” tube - Matte Duplex scope mounted in an LT104-1 - LaRue SPR M4 1.5 1” cantilevered mount. Tons of rounds have gone down the tube on that AR15 A3 with a 20" barrel. Old school. Simple. I'll keep it. It is also FRTed, so the extra weight of the 20" barrel smooths out the firing I also have a Leupold 1.5-5x20 30mm VX-III illuminated German #4 dot in a cantilevered scope mount - LT104-30 - LaRue SPR M4 1.5”. I'll keep this. I can shoot open eyes at 1.5x and it doesn't bother me. I have a couple each of more modern LPVOs in illuminated 1-6, 1-8, and 1-10 versions. I really like these. I like my old light and simple 1-4 and I don't plan on replacing it. It is a nice rifle/scope combination to hand somebody new to demonstrate to them how it was back in the day. The Leupold 1.5-5 is a step up from that. But, I love the technology available on the newer, generally much heavier, versions. I have purchased 5 LPVOs 1-6 and above this year. I'm going to purchase either two more LPVOs 1-8 or above or two MPVOs. I am learning towards two MPVOs because they are 18" SPRish builds. Leupold mark ar 1x4 is my most favorite scope of all time. Think they come in around 9 ounces. Buy every one I come across |
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Although we're flooded with bigger, better, fancier LPVOs I still like my old Leupold Green Firedot. Do wish it had a 30mm tube and longer battery life. I haven't done any long-distance shooting in years. I do have some newer 30mm 1-6 scopes. I also have a Nikon Monarch "African" non-illuminated 1-4. I've been thinking about posting it on one of the African hunting sites. I understand some people still like them. |
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Originally Posted By DetroitSounds: 1-4 is a pointless weight penalty. If all you need is 4x get an ACOG or Eotech with G45 5x. Need to stretch beyond 250 yards, get a 1-8 This is a weird take. I can compete in 2 gun with my 1-4 and be 95% as fast as a red dot at 1x and it takes me out to 400 easily. A red dot with a magnifier is nowhere near as good as a lpvo at range. Not even the same universe. Acog cant do that. And magnifiers suck ass. All of them |
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Originally Posted By thunderopossom: Leupold mark ar 1x4 is my most favorite scope of all time. Think they come in around 9 ounces. Buy every one I come across They are awesome for weight. With the Aero mount, makes a very light carbine. I'm amazed how heavy peoples 14.5 builds are when I pick them up. |
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Originally Posted By JHans7663:
Always wished the little Leupold 1.5-4 could have came with a slightly better reticle. Paired with a true 1x. |
Point shooting will give you monkeypox. - John_Wayne777
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns.
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns.
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Originally Posted By foggy: They are awesome for weight. With the Aero mount, makes a very light carbine. I'm amazed how heavy peoples 14.5 builds are when I pick them up. This is what I’m saying. The perfect lightweight form-factor. Why not perfect as much as they can and offer that as a solid alternative to the bigger, heavier stuff. There’s a market. |
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Originally Posted By goer001: For an lpvo it allows a slightly larger objective lens, usually 24mm vs 20 that can slightly improve light, fov and exit pupil. May or may not add weight depending on thickness and material used. Originally Posted By goer001: Originally Posted By cttb: What would a 30mm tube do for it? All the truly lightweight offerings (12 ounces or less) had or have 20mm objectives, even in the 30mm tube models (most recent iteration being Mark 3HD 1.5-4x). In Leupold's scopes, just going from 1" to 30mm tube added 2.5-3oz (Mark AR to VXR Patrol). Going to 24mm objective lens and true 1x takes Leupold to well over 1lb (Mark 4HD). You can't have a sub 14 ounce 1-4x LPVO with true 1x and the big field of view that comes with a bigger objective lens. The bigger tubes, lenses and reducers are what makes nearly all of those scopes weigh a pound or more. If you want less than 14 oz, you're giving up FOV and 1x. There's no way around it. In other words, people keep saying "I would love one of those old Leupolds if they had this or that added to them." Not having this or that is what made them so light and compact in the first place. Once you add this and that to them, they're not light and compact anymore. Leupold quit selling them because most people like this and that more than they like light and compact, at least for now. I'm sure in a few years light and compact will be the most important thing in a scope, and we'll have to buy all new scopes again. |
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Originally Posted By thunderopossom: Leupold mark ar 1x4 is my most favorite scope of all time. Think they come in around 9 ounces. Buy every one I come across They sell for more used today than they cost new. Leupold should bring it back with capped turrets, anodize it bronze, put a simple mil Firedot reticle in it, sell it for $1,000, and call it the all new Mark87 Super HD NanoweightRecon Advanced Sighting System. They'd crush it. |
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Originally Posted By cttb: They sell for more used today than they cost new. Originally Posted By cttb: Originally Posted By thunderopossom: Leupold mark ar 1x4 is my most favorite scope of all time. Think they come in around 9 ounces. Buy every one I come across They sell for more used today than they cost new. Lol, when you can find them. When Leupold discontinued them, online retailers were blowing them out for $250. |
Are good 1-4x LPVOs just dead n gone? (Page 1 of 2)
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