AR Sponsor
Accuracy Evaluations of 6 Different Noveske Barrels (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/21/2010 4:24:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon][Edited]
|
Noveske 20” HBAR
This stainless steel barrel has an HBAR profile, polygonal rifling, a 1:7’ twist and the Noveske Match mod 0 chamber. 
Using hand-loaded Sierra 55 grain BlitzKings, as a control load, this barrel turned in a 10-shot group with an extreme spread of 0.726" from the bench-rest at 100 yards.. That’s not too shabby for an AR-15 with a barrel that has a chamber that “was developed to fire MK262 Mod 1 on AUTO in hot environments." For the Internet Commandos in our viewing audience, I also fired a 3-shot group at 100 yards. It had an extreme spread of 0.175” 
 
Additional accuracy testing using the 20” Noveske barreled AR-15 and Nosler 77 grain BTHP at a muzzle velocity of 2800 fps was conducted in the same manner as described previously Three 10-shot groups were obtained from 100 yards. Those groups had extreme spreads of: 0.880” 0.857” 0.845” for a 10-shot group average of 0.860”. These groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group which had a mean radius of 0.29”. 
Noveske 16" SS Recon barrel 
Testing was done at 100 yards from a bench rest. A Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification was used for sighting. I obtained three 10-shot groups using one of my standard hand-loads for 77 grain Sierra MatchKings. Those three groups measured as follows: 0.81” 0.93” 1.01” for an average 10-shot extreme spread of 0.92". These three groups were over-layed on each other using the RSI Shooting Lab software program to obtain a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for this composite group measured 0.28”. Here’s a pic of the best 10-shot group of the 77 grain MatchKings. 
Noveske 16" N4 light Recce 
I performed an accuracy evaluation of my Noveske 16” N4 Light Recce upper following my usual protocol. Testing was performed from a distance of 100 yards. Firing was conducted from a concrete bench with the free-float handguard resting in a Sinclair Bench Rest. The rear stock of the rifle rested in a Protektor bunny-ear bag. Wind conditions were monitored using a Wind Probe. A Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification and adjusted to be parallax free at 100 yards was used for sighting. Using hand-loaded, match grade ammunition I fired three, 10-shot groups in a row. The extreme spreads of those groups measured: 1.29” 1.18” 1.31” for a 10-shot average extreme spread of 1.26”. I over-layed those three groups on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for the composite group was 0.37”. After firing the above three groups, I fired an additional five, 10-shot groups in a row using the same set-up for a total of eight, 10-shot groups. The average extreme spread for all eight groups was 1.24”. I over-layed all eight groups on each using RSI Shooting Lab to form an 80-shot composite group. The mean radius for that composite group was 0.39”. 
Noveske 14.5” N4 light carbine 
The 14.5” N4 barrel was tested in the same manner as described above. Three 10-shot groups fired from 100 yards using match grade hand-loads had extreme spreads of: 1.029” 1.360” 1.275” for a 10-shot group average of 1.22”. As above, I over-layed the three 10-shot groups on each other using RSI Shooting lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for that composite group was 0.37”. Noveske 16" SS Recon barrel in 6.8mm SPC 
Accuracy testing was performed from a bench-rest at 100 yards using a Leupold Vari-X III set at 25 power for sighting. Wind conditions were monitored using a Wind Probe. All groups consisted of 10-shots each. Prior to testing the Hornady ammunition, I fired three 10-shot groups in a row using a control load that utilized hand-loaded 115 Sierra MatchKings. The extreme spreads for those groups measured: 0.99” 1.00” 1.12” for a 10-shot group grand average of 1.04”. Following my usual procedure for evaluating the accuracy of ammunition, I overlayed these three 10-shot groups on each other using the RSI Shooting Lab software program to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for this 30-shot composite group was 0.37”. best 10-shot group of control load 
Noveske 16" SS 9mm Parabellum barrel 
For those that might not already be aware of this, Winchester’s website hosts some useful information about their Ranger-T series of ammunition. The website has an online terminal ballistics comparison tool that is quite informative. For example, if you are interested in seeing the difference in terminal performance between the 9mm 147 grain Ranger-T load and the 9mm 124 grain +P Ranger-T load in bare gelatin and after passing through four layers of denim (basically the IWBA test protocol) simply select those loads from a couple of drop down menus and voila! 
The Winchester website also hosts downloadable “spec sheets” (in MS Word format) for all of the Ranger-T loads. Of particular interest to me was the accuracy “spec” for the 124 grain +P Ranger-T load. Winchester states the accuracy spec for the 124 grain Ranger load is an average extreme spread of 1.25” for (five) 5-shot groups at a distance of 50 yards. While I’m certain Winchester uses some type of machine-rested test fixture to obtain those results, that level of accuracy from factory loaded handgun ammunition is still extremely impressive. After reading the above spec, I was curious to see just what level of accuracy the 124 grain Ranger-T load would deliver for me. Normally, when I evaluate the accuracy of ammunition, I shoot 10-shot groups. However, since Winchester’s accuracy spec was stated in 5-shot groups, I decided to follow their protocol for comparison. The vehicle used for this accuracy evaluation was a Colt 6450 9mm carbine with a free-floated stainless steel Noveske barrel. Shooting was done from a concrete bench at a distance of 50 yards. Caldwell front and rear bags were used to stabilize the firearm. Sighting was done through a Leupold Vari-X III set at 10X magnification and adjusted to be parallax free at 50 yards. A mirage shade was attached to the Leupold. Wind conditions were continuously monitored using a “Wind Probe.” Colt 6450 
The Wind Probe 
Prior to testing the Ranger-T load, I fired five, 5-shot groups of a control load consisting of hand-loaded 121 grain HAP bullets with the above set-up at 50 yards. Those five groups had extreme spreads of: 0.95” 0.97” 1.00” 1.07” 0.97” for an average extreme spread of 0.99”. In the same manner that the control loads were fired, I obtained five, 5-shot groups from 50 yards using the Winchester 124 grain +P Ranger-T load. The extreme spreads of those groups measured: 1.73” 1.88” 1.87” 1.89” 1.64” for an average extreme spread of 1.80”. Not quite up to the level of Winchester’s “spec sheet,” but still very good for factory loaded handgun ammunition. While it is common convention to evaluate the accuracy of shot-groups using the extreme spread, a much more in-depth and reliable predictive indicator of the accuracy of shot-groups is the mean radius. Using the same shot-groups from above, I over-layed the five targets from each load on each other respectively using the RSI Shooting Lab software program. The mean radius was then calculated for the 25-shot composite groups formed using this method. The mean radius for the 121 grain HAP control load was 0.44” while the mean radius for the Winchester 124 grain +P Ranger-T load was 0.71”. 
I’ll be adding the results for a seventh barrel in the future; a 14.5” Noveske Afghan. 
|
Member of the General Population
Start with virgin Lake City brass.
Prime with Federal Gold Medal primers. 
Charge with one of those "Finnish" powders. A muzzle velocity of around 2650 fps (plus or minus 50 fps) from a 20" barrel seems to be the sweet spot for accuracy from my barrels. 
Seat a Hornady 75 grain BTHP (or 77 grain Sierra MatchKing) to 2.250" O.A.L. 
Repeat as needed. 
|
Member of the General Population
| Stellar writeup! |
Stick
[email protected]
www.rainierarms.com
(253) 218-2999 Office
(253) 218-2998 FAX
www.weaponevolution.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stickgunner
[email protected]
www.rainierarms.com
(253) 218-2999 Office
(253) 218-2998 FAX
www.weaponevolution.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stickgunner
|
Molon,
Fabulous post (as usual). A few questions below in GREEN .... Originally Posted By Molon:
Start with virgin Lake City brass. How does Winchester brass compare, in your testing? Prime with Federal Gold Medal primers. Are these primers as "hard" as, say, CCI #41 primers? Charge with one of those "Finnish" powders. A muzzle velocity of around 2650 fps (plus or minus 50 fps) from a 20" barrel seems to be the sweet spot for accuracy from my barrels. Have you test Reloder 15? Seat a Hornady 75 grain BTHP (or 77 grain Sierra MatchKing) to 2.250" O.A.L. Are any of these bullets regularly available in a cannelured version to better replicate military OTM loads? Thanks! |
"War is like winter - it may come late, it may be mild, but sooner or later, in one form or another, it will arrive."
- Michael Mandelbaum (Survival, Volume 40, Number 4)
- Michael Mandelbaum (Survival, Volume 40, Number 4)
|
Nice write up.
I wonder if NOveske will ever sell 20" 5.56 barrels again? I want to start loading for 5.56 and will be looking for a 2800fps 77gr load. I think I'll try Varget first and if I it doesn't work I'll try N540, assuming I can ever find it in stock. If it were easier to come by I would already ahve tried 540 and 550 in .308. |
|
Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Start with virgin Lake City brass. How does Winchester brass compare, in your testing? Not as consistent and the tiniest bit less case capacity. 
Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Prime with Federal Gold Medal primers. Are these primers as "hard" as, say, CCI #41 primers? Definitely not. Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Charge with one of those "Finnish" powders. A muzzle velocity of around 2650 fps (plus or minus 50 fps) from a 20" barrel seems to be the sweet spot for accuracy from my barrels. Have you tested Reloder 15? Yes. It produces a slightly higher port pressure and is a little harder on the action and not quite as accurate in my barrels. Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Seat a Hornady 75 grain BTHP (or 77 grain Sierra MatchKing) to 2.250" O.A.L. Are any of these bullets regularly available in a cannelured version to better replicate military OTM loads? The Nosler 77 grain BTHP with a cannelure is occasionally available directly from Nosler. The Sierra 77 grain MatchKing with a cannelure is now being sold to the general public. The Hornady 75 grain BTHP is not sold to the general public, but can sometimes be purchased from some of the reloading suppliers. You can also just "roll your own." The cannelure on the bullet on the left below, was cut using the Corbin tool. 
|
Member of the General Population
AR Variants Mod and Juris Doctor (in training)!
Joined:
Oct 2003
Posts:
11710
EE: 100% (480)
USA
Excellent report Molon. 
I'm wondering what other 6.8SPC loads you've tried before settling on the 115gr SMK (I don't reload yet). Under much less scientific conditions, my Noveske Recce rifle has grouped well with all of the SSA "tactical" loads and the best groups have come from 110gr Sierra Pro Hunters and 110gr Nosler Accubond. |
"Because there are more bad guys out there who deserve it." - Costa
|
Thanks much molon
One of the few posts I am going to actually "print out" I want a hard copy of this puppy... Might even make a frame for it...if I can find some oak worthy enough.. 
|
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell
|
Originally Posted By REDX:
your "4+1" Phenom, Is this common? I was doing some load testing last weekend and I always had one round that was totaly off from the rest of the group now this might explain it Thanks I've really only noticed it in semi-automatic in pistols, most likely due to the slide/barrel lock-up. I haven't been able to reproduce it with any statistical significance in AR-15s chambered for rifle cartridges. I just was playing it safe for this test, since it was the first time testing factory pistol loads from an AR-15. As I've previously posted 5-shot groups are not really acceptable for accuracy testing. I only used 5-shot groups for this particular test to emulate the Winchester spec. |
Member of the General Population
| Hi Molon, great writeup! I have a question regarding the n4 stainless vs light barrels. Is there a velocity advantage with the stainless barrels over the non-polygonal rifled light barrels to your knowledge? I thought you might have some idea since you ahve both 16" and 14.5" setups in each. I spoke with Noveske CS yesterday and they didn't have expected velvities (seems odd to me). |
|
Informative write-up. However, If you don't mind, I have some questions. Not to start trouble, qualifier, I do not now nor have I ever owned a Noveske product, just never been around it, not a hater. In your testing you used some Noveske stainless barrels are they match grade, like a Kreiger or Douglas? Where did you find a 20" barrel? Noveske website's longest barrel listed is 18" for 5.56. As I don't reload, is it worth the money to buy a precision barrel and use factory ammo? Or to wring good accuracy are reloads necessary? Is the 1-7 twist on your 20" barrel as accurate as the 1-7.7 Kreiger barrelled upper?
Thanks |
|
Originally Posted By spoonxman:
Informative write-up. However, If you don't mind, I have some questions. Not to start trouble, qualifier, I do not now nor have I ever owned a Noveske product, just never been around it, not a hater. In your testing you used some Noveske stainless barrels are they match grade, like a Kreiger or Douglas? Where did you find a 20" barrel? Noveske website's longest barrel listed is 18" for 5.56. As I don't reload, is it worth the money to buy a precision barrel and use factory ammo? Or to wring good accuracy are reloads necessary? Is the 1-7 twist on your 20" barrel as accurate as the 1-7.7 Kreiger barrelled upper? Thanks left click |
Member of the General Population
|
Originally Posted By Molon:
Here's a close-up of the rifling in one of the stainless steel Noveske barrels. http://www.box.net/shared/static/2a5d04ueyu.jpg That looks pretty clean. Is that a NEW barrel, or what? |
"We talk about fate as if it were something visited upon us; we forget that we create our fate every day we live."--Henry Miller
|
Originally Posted By Molon:
Here's a close-up of the rifling in one of the stainless steel Noveske barrels. http://www.box.net/shared/static/2a5d04ueyu.jpg How does it compare to the Kreiger? As always, my hat is off to you and your work. Bill |
Happiness is a warm gun,
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
|
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By REDX:
your "4+1" Phenom, Is this common? I was doing some load testing last weekend and I always had one round that was totaly off from the rest of the group now this might explain it Thanks I've really only noticed it in semi-automatic in pistols, most likely due to the slide/barrel lock-up. I haven't been able to reproduce it with any statistical significance in AR-15s chambered for rifle cartridges. I just was playing it safe for this test, since it was the first time testing factory pistol loads from an AR-15. As I've previously posted 5-shot groups are not really acceptable for accuracy testing. I only used 5-shot groups for this particular test to emulate the Winchester spec. great report never had the problem with my AR15s Yeah some of my semi auto handguns do that. I even shoot 1st round in the berm and still will get the auto syndrome. I also found that some semi autos in my collection. didnt suffer the problem . I still rather shoot my S&W wheelguns for accuracy over most my semi auto handguns |
YHVH
|
Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Here's a close-up of the rifling in one of the stainless steel Noveske barrels. http://www.box.net/shared/static/2a5d04ueyu.jpg That looks pretty clean. Is that a NEW barrel, or what? Pic taken after 200 rounds through the barrel and cleaned. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
|
Originally Posted By Hyperformer:
I miss Molon.  N/M, clicked on his user info ...
|
God Bless Our Troops ... Especially Our Snipers.
Makers of all things LaRue - the Stealth Uppers, the OBR in 5.56 and 7.62, the PredatAR in both 5.56 and 7.62, the best QD mounts known to mankind ... and so on.
Makers of all things LaRue - the Stealth Uppers, the OBR in 5.56 and 7.62, the PredatAR in both 5.56 and 7.62, the best QD mounts known to mankind ... and so on.
|
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim: Only place he posts anymore is the EE Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim: Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical: Originally Posted By Hyperformer: I miss Molon. N/M, clicked on his user info ...Only place he posts anymore is the EE ETA: clarification |
|
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
I looked and couldn't find anything recent on m4carbine.net. So I'm not sure. Hopefully everything is ok. As he has done a lot of selling. Jeeminy, the things you guys can deduce. 
|
God Bless Our Troops ... Especially Our Snipers.
Makers of all things LaRue - the Stealth Uppers, the OBR in 5.56 and 7.62, the PredatAR in both 5.56 and 7.62, the best QD mounts known to mankind ... and so on.
Makers of all things LaRue - the Stealth Uppers, the OBR in 5.56 and 7.62, the PredatAR in both 5.56 and 7.62, the best QD mounts known to mankind ... and so on.
Accuracy Evaluations of 6 Different Noveske Barrels (Page 1 of 2)
AR Sponsor