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Posted: 10/18/2017 8:18:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chopinbloc][Edited]
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So site staff tacked this thread because I'd like to use it as a quick reference for tests already performed as well as a place to discuss results and suggest future tests.
What load would you like to see tested in gel for the Arfcom Youtube channel next time? Best choices:  Top 5 Home Defense .223/5.56mm Loads Here are all the gel tests so far:  Gimmick Or Good To Go? .223 Rem Gorilla 62gr Controlled Chaos Gel Test  A Silver Surprise: .308 Win TulAmmo 165gr Soft Point Gel Test  The Marine Corps' New Hotness: Mk318 Mod1  Home Defense .223 On A Budget? Hornady Frontier 62gr BTHP Gel Test  HD Carbine Gel Test: .223 Rem Hornady 73gr ELD  Multi Purpose Rifle: CORBON's 77gr MPR (TMK) .223 Gel Test  MK319 Reduced Velocity Gel Test - How does it compare to the Army's M80A1?  Testing The Army's 7.62mm Wonder Bullet: M80A1 reduced velocity gel test  Varmint Bullets For Defense? .300AAC 110gr V-Max gel test  Can The Marines' Wonder Bullet Keep Up With The Army's? Mk318 reduced velocity gel test  The Army's New Ammo Is a Long Distance Devastator - M855A1 Gel Test  Does a longer barrel improve performance? 9mm carbine 124gr Federal HST gel test  Failed To Load Title  Best .223 Defense Ammo Ever? Federal 5.56mm 62gr FBIT3 Gel Test  Are Match Bullets Suitable for Defense? Hornady 75gr BTHP Gel Test  Designer Bullet Gel Test: .223 40gr Monolithic HV GSC  Failed To Load Title  Lehigh Defense .223 Controlled Chaos | Gel Test  Barnes Precision 556 69 GR OTM | Gel Test  PPU 223 55gr SP Review  MK318 SOST | Ballistic Gel Test  Failed To Load Title  M855A1 Reduced Velocity | Ballistic Gel Test  Wolf Gold .223 55gr Full Metal Jacket | Gel Test  Failed To Load Title  Hornady 223 Remington 55gr GMX | Ballistic Gel Test  Hornady 123gr SST 6.5 Grendel Gel Test  Prvi Partizan .223 75 gr BTHP Gel Test  How To Interpret Gel Tests  Speer 75gr Gold Dot Ammunition  Real Ballistic Gelatin vs Clear Ballistics Gelatin  PolyFrang .223/5.56mm Frangible Ammunition - Gel Test  Failed To Load Title |
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Black Hills TMK vs Creedmoor TMK, both 77gr...if you're willing to do a head to head.
I can send you a few rounds of each if you'd like. Others I can think of: IMI Razorcore Barnes VOR-TX 62 or 70gr TSX Any of the Speer Gold Dots (55, 64, 75) IMI M193 IMI M855 |
Time to DRAIN THE SWAMP.
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I tested 77gr TMK on The Chopping Block a while back. I could do it again for the Arfcom channel, but there isn't much point in doing a head to head since it's the same bullet. I'm only testing terminal performance in gel, not comparing accuracy. I'll add the others to the list. ETA: We did Nosler 77gr MPR, which uses a TMK, as confirmed by Nosler. |
...our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor
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Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
I tested 77gr TMK on The Chopping Block a while back. I could do it again for the Arfcom channel, but there isn't much point in doing a head to head since it's the same bullet. I'm only testing terminal performance in gel, not comparing accuracy. I'll add the others to the list. |
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I would like to see GECO 55gr FMJ tested.
Some of the Berger FGMM... .308, 6.5 Creedmoor, or even the .223 73gr Maybe the 69gr TMK at 5.56 velocity..... Remember to include the Fruit Cocktail... Or ...  .. some of that 90gr SMK , 100gr Fusion .224 Valkyrie !!
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
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Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
.45acp 230gr Gold Dot 9mm 147gr Gold Dot .40S&W 180gr Gold Dot In the same block , same test, same length barrels. You can include .380acp and 10mm if you want. 200gr .45 165gr .40 124gr 9mm Other than that, take one caliber at a time, and test three weights against each other. 230gr, 200gr, 180gr .45acp 180gr, 165gr, 155gr .40cal 147gr, 124gr, 115gr 9mm |
Tastes like chicken.
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Originally Posted By swampvol:
Hornady Black 110g Vmax 300blk. |
Originally Posted By Det0nate: It takes a special kind of retard to argue the wrong side of second grade spelling.
What made you pick that particular quote for your sig-line?
--Swindle1984
What made you pick that particular quote for your sig-line?
--Swindle1984
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Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
.45acp 230gr Gold Dot 9mm 147gr Gold Dot .40S&W 180gr Gold Dot In the same block , same test, same length barrels. You can include .380acp and 10mm if you want. 
That's a pretty cool idea. |
...our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor
Yeah I like that idea too. Too much 9mm is as good as .40 and .45 going around. "No discernable difference. Difference is not enough to matter" etc. etc. Course maybe I'd have to eat my words.........  
Although, simply put, it's already done right there. Of course you could see if you get different results. Or introduce some barriers, because that is part of the argument and concern. Also, add in .357 out of a 2-3" barrel. But that brings up a good question, do you use shorter barrels for a test like that? OR service sized barrels? So many of us carrying smaller guns now a days. But not everyone. |
Jesus came to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. - My Pastor
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GECO .223
GECO 5.56 MEN M193 56gr ADI F1 (M855) ADI/Australian Outback 69gr SMK CBC/Magtech M193 CBC/Magtech 62gr 5.56 FMJ RUAG HC (SS109) Ideally from at least a 16" barrel The most badass of testing would have a normal close range shot and another at 100yds 
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
Yeah I like that idea too. Too much 9mm is as good as .40 and .45 going around. "No discernable difference. Difference is not enough to matter" etc. etc. Course maybe I'd have to eat my words.........
Although, simply put, it's already done right there. Of course you could see if you get different results. Or introduce some barriers, because that is part of the argument and concern. Also, add in .357 out of a 2-3" barrel. But that brings up a good question, do you use shorter barrels for a test like that? OR service sized barrels? So many of us carrying smaller guns now a days. But not everyone. You actually could do the service length, and a shorter barrel, say a carry length. Hell, you could gather a lot of data if you did the test with all three weights in all three barrel lengths in all the calibers, or at least the most popular, 9,40,45 against each other. Test 1 1a. All heavy weights for each caliber in service length barrels 1b. Repeat for mid weights 1c.Repeat for lighter weights Test 2 2a. All heavy weights for each caliber in mid length barrels 2b. Mid weights 3c. lighter weights Test 3 3a. Heavy weights in compact length barrels 3b. Mid weights 3c. Light weights Write all data down and put it in a spread sheet for use in the ammo oracle here. Also take photos and save for the same purpose. You can then use that same protocol to test other brands in each caliber and barrel length and weight. Some designs seem to do better with some calibers or weights or velocities than others. It would interesting to see an actual set of tests done in as scientific a way as possible like this. |
Tastes like chicken.
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M855A1 reduced velocity test, similar to your reduced velocity test of the 62gr Fusion, in order to determine what the minimum frag velocity is for the EPR projectile.
Shoot it once at 1700fps. If it frags, reduce velocity down 100fps, until it ceases to frag. If it doesn't frag at 1700, increase to 1800. For example, if it's fragmenting at 1600fps, then M855A1 is a 500yd+ cartridge. If it's only fragmenting at 1900fps+...likely closer to 300yd. Right now there is no data on what the minimal velocity is, so this data would be extremely useful for both understanding the true capabilities of M855A1, as well as discussions of future calibers that use the EPR projectile. Thanks! |
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I'd like to see my duty load. Tested from a 14.5 as well as 10.3 both unsuppressed. Federal 55 gr tactical bonded 223T1 chronograph and gel, steel plate too maybe some windshield glass into gel for the win....
Also like to see the 75 gr PPU out of a 10.3 unsuppressed |
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Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
I would think with a .45acp in the equation maybe service length would be best, unless you use a non 1911 gun for .45acp, then whatever the standard like 4.8" or whatever. You actually could do the service length, and a shorter barrel, say a carry length. Hell, you could gather a lot of data if you did the test with all three weights in all three barrel lengths in all the calibers, or at least the most popular, 9,40,45 against each other. Test 1 1a. All heavy weights for each caliber in service length barrels 1b. Repeat for mid weights 1c.Repeat for lighter weights Test 2 2a. All heavy weights for each caliber in mid length barrels 2b. Mid weights 3c. lighter weights Test 3 3a. Heavy weights in compact length barrels 3b. Mid weights 3c. Light weights Write all data down and put it in a spread sheet for use in the ammo oracle here. Also take photos and save for the same purpose. You can then use that same protocol to test other brands in each caliber and barrel length and weight. Some designs seem to do better with some calibers or weights or velocities than others. It would interesting to see an actual set of tests done in as scientific a way as possible like this. |
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
Yeah I like that idea too. Too much 9mm is as good as .40 and .45 going around. "No discernable difference. Difference is not enough to matter" etc. etc. Course maybe I'd have to eat my words.........
Although, simply put, it's already done right there. Of course you could see if you get different results. Or introduce some barriers, because that is part of the argument and concern. Also, add in .357 out of a 2-3" barrel. But that brings up a good question, do you use shorter barrels for a test like that? OR service sized barrels? So many of us carrying smaller guns now a days. But not everyone. |
...our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor
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Originally Posted By mcantu:
GECO .223 GECO 5.56 MEN M193 56gr ADI F1 (M855) ADI/Australian Outback 69gr SMK CBC/Magtech M193 CBC/Magtech 62gr 5.56 FMJ RUAG HC (SS109) Ideally from at least a 16" barrel The most badass of testing would have a normal close range shot and another at 100yds Would love to see the results from: GECO .223 GECO 5.56 MEN M193 56gr CBC/Magtech 77gr OTM |
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GECO 223 and 5.56 55grn FMJ. MEN 5.56 56grn FMJ and CBC/Magtech 5.56 62grn FMJ (lead core only).
As far as I know, nobody has published any gel tests on those popular rounds. While they may be boring and simple in nature FMJ performance, it would be interesting to say the least. Science !! 
GECO 223 and 5.56 have had a cult following as range ammo for years. Seems to be very accurate, fair priced ammo. There has been a "myth" that the Swiss made ammo has a precision made, thicker than normal FMJ, and will not fragment. It is not the same as M193. However, no tests have been made (video wise) to bust this myth. Be the first. IM me if you need the test ammo.
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:
M855A1 reduced velocity test, similar to your reduced velocity test of the 62gr Fusion, in order to determine what the minimum frag velocity is for the EPR projectile. Shoot it once at 1700fps. If it frags, reduce velocity down 100fps, until it ceases to frag. If it doesn't frag at 1700, increase to 1800. For example, if it's fragmenting at 1600fps, then M855A1 is a 500yd+ cartridge. If it's only fragmenting at 1900fps+...likely closer to 300yd. Right now there is no data on what the minimal velocity is, so this data would be extremely useful for both understanding the true capabilities of M855A1, as well as discussions of future calibers that use the EPR projectile. Thanks! |
...our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor
|
Originally Posted By BULLDAWG_556:
I'd like to see my duty load. Tested from a 14.5 as well as 10.3 both unsuppressed. Federal 55 gr tactical bonded 223T1 chronograph and gel, steel plate too maybe some windshield glass into gel for the win.... Also like to see the 75 gr PPU out of a 10.3 unsuppressed |
...our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor
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Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Yes, sir. I'm working on exactly that. I did one reduced velocity test using a 14.5" barrel and a reduced charge. I did not use my 11.5" barrel because it's 1:9" and a lower MV also means even lower RPMs so it would not be a good simulation of long range performance. I'm working on getting a 7" 1:7" twist upper to do more low velocity testing on EPR and other ammo. |
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Originally Posted By mcantu:
that's all pretty pointless and repetitive seeing as how handgun rounds have been tested to death over the last 15 years. Just go through Luckygunner's tests |
...our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1:
Well we know it won't do it at 1300 fps :D Thank you for that testing, BTW. In case you guys didn't see, Matt tested 62gr EPR from a FiveseveN. |
...our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor
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Originally Posted By BULLDAWG_556:
That was Suppressed though wasn’t it? Originally Posted By BULLDAWG_556:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
I did 75gr PPU from an 11.5". Is that close enough? |
...our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor
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Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Yes, sir. I'm working on exactly that. I did one reduced velocity test using a 14.5" barrel and a reduced charge. I did not use my 11.5" barrel because it's 1:9" and a lower MV also means even lower RPMs so it would not be a good simulation of long range performance. I'm working on getting a 7" 1:7" twist upper to do more low velocity testing on EPR and other ammo. Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:
M855A1 reduced velocity test, similar to your reduced velocity test of the 62gr Fusion, in order to determine what the minimum frag velocity is for the EPR projectile. Shoot it once at 1700fps. If it frags, reduce velocity down 100fps, until it ceases to frag. If it doesn't frag at 1700, increase to 1800. For example, if it's fragmenting at 1600fps, then M855A1 is a 500yd+ cartridge. If it's only fragmenting at 1900fps+...likely closer to 300yd. Right now there is no data on what the minimal velocity is, so this data would be extremely useful for both understanding the true capabilities of M855A1, as well as discussions of future calibers that use the EPR projectile. Thanks! http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/09/09/romulan-vulcan-preference-driven-vs-process-driven-design-field-small-arms-ammunition/ Just watched your test of the EPR at 2400fps - Nasty. |
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:
Awesome! This will also be of great interest to The Firearm Blog / Nathaniel - all those fancy calibers he's designed need good data on the EPR frag minimum to model properly. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/09/09/romulan-vulcan-preference-driven-vs-process-driven-design-field-small-arms-ammunition/ Just watched your test of the EPR at 2400fps - Nasty. |
...our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor
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With the 11.5 included in the tests... I would request the following....
Federal 62 grain Trophy Bonded tip (vital shok) Remington 62 grain Hypersonic bonded (core lokt) Remington 55 grain PSP nosler 60 grain partition BH 5.56 69 grain TMK You are by far my favorite source for video testing data. I would also like to contribute by either helping with funding or purchasing some of the ammo for testing.... Let me know via Email... |
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Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Email sent. I appreciate all your hard work, and it is the least we could do. I have an extensive variety of current and older ammo. |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
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Send me an address and I'll send you some of the 62 grain OTMs to test.
How many do you need to load and test? |
Originally Posted By Det0nate: It takes a special kind of retard to argue the wrong side of second grade spelling.
What made you pick that particular quote for your sig-line?
--Swindle1984
What made you pick that particular quote for your sig-line?
--Swindle1984
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