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Posted: 10/18/2017 7:18:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2018 12:13:38 PM EST by bluefalcon]
So site staff tacked this thread because I'd like to use it as a quick reference for tests already performed as well as a place to discuss results and suggest future tests.

What load would you like to see tested in gel for the Arfcom Youtube channel next time?

Best choices:

Top 5 Home Defense .223/5.56mm Loads


Here are all the gel tests so far:

Gimmick Or Good To Go? .223 Rem Gorilla 62gr Controlled Chaos Gel Test


A Silver Surprise: .308 Win TulAmmo 165gr Soft Point Gel Test


The Marine Corps' New Hotness: Mk318 Mod1


Home Defense .223 On A Budget? Hornady Frontier 62gr BTHP Gel Test


HD Carbine Gel Test: .223 Rem Hornady 73gr ELD


Multi Purpose Rifle: CORBON's 77gr MPR (TMK) .223 Gel Test


MK319 Reduced Velocity Gel Test - How does it compare to the Army's M80A1?


Testing The Army's 7.62mm Wonder Bullet: M80A1 reduced velocity gel test


Varmint Bullets For Defense? .300AAC 110gr V-Max gel test


Can The Marines' Wonder Bullet Keep Up With The Army's? Mk318 reduced velocity gel test


The Army's New Ammo Is a Long Distance Devastator - M855A1 Gel Test


Does a longer barrel improve performance? 9mm carbine 124gr Federal HST gel test


Lighter match bullets as good as heavy OTM? Sierra 69gr HPBT gel test


Best .223 Defense Ammo Ever? Federal 5.56mm 62gr FBIT3 Gel Test


Are Match Bullets Suitable for Defense? Hornady 75gr BTHP Gel Test


Designer Bullet Gel Test: .223 40gr Monolithic HV GSC


How Good Can a Plain 55gr FMJ Bullet Be?


Lehigh Defense .223 Controlled Chaos | Gel Test


Barnes Precision 556 69 GR OTM | Gel Test


PPU 223 55gr SP Review


MK318 SOST | Ballistic Gel Test


Lake City M855 SBR Ballistic Gel Test


M855A1 Reduced Velocity | Ballistic Gel Test


Wolf Gold .223 55gr Full Metal Jacket | Gel Test


Brown Bear 223 Rem 55 gr Soft Point | Gel Test


Hornady 223 Remington 55gr GMX | Ballistic Gel Test


Hornady 123gr SST 6.5 Grendel Gel Test


Prvi Partizan .223 75 gr BTHP Gel Test


How To Interpret Gel Tests


Speer 75gr Gold Dot Ammunition


Real Ballistic Gelatin vs Clear Ballistics Gelatin


PolyFrang .223/5.56mm Frangible Ammunition - Gel Test


HPR 150 Grain - 300BLK Gel Test
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 7:28:33 PM EST
Black Hills TMK vs Creedmoor TMK, both 77gr...if you're willing to do a head to head.

I can send you a few rounds of each if you'd like.

Others I can think of:
IMI Razorcore
Barnes VOR-TX 62 or 70gr TSX
Any of the Speer Gold Dots (55, 64, 75)
IMI M193
IMI M855
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 7:40:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2018 11:38:16 AM EST by bluefalcon]
I tested 77gr TMK on The Chopping Block a while back. I could do it again for the Arfcom channel, but there isn't much point in doing a head to head since it's the same bullet. I'm only testing terminal performance in gel, not comparing accuracy. I'll add the others to the list.

ETA: We did Nosler 77gr MPR, which uses a TMK, as confirmed by Nosler.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 7:48:53 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
I tested 77gr TMK on The Chopping Block a while back. I could do it again for the Arfcom channel, but there isn't much point in doing a head to head since it's the same bullet. I'm only testing terminal performance in gel, not comparing accuracy. I'll add the others to the list.
View Quote
Bh tmk has a cannelure
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 8:24:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2017 8:32:33 PM EST by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 8:55:42 PM EST
The 62 grain Hornady OTMs.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 9:00:03 PM EST
Hornady Black 110g Vmax 300blk.

77g IMI razorcore is my second vhoice.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 9:00:39 PM EST
.45acp 230gr Gold Dot
9mm 147gr Gold Dot
.40S&W 180gr Gold Dot


In the same block , same test, same length barrels.


You can include .380acp and 10mm if you want.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 9:03:32 PM EST
55 grain PMC Bronze and 55 grain Aguila from a 16" barrel at 25 and 100 yards. Good quality ammo a low prices, I would like to see how they perform in gel compared to M193.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 9:03:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
.45acp 230gr Gold Dot
9mm 147gr Gold Dot
.40S&W 180gr Gold Dot


In the same block , same test, same length barrels.


You can include .380acp and 10mm if you want.
View Quote
Of course you can step down on each caliber in weight one step if you'd like.

200gr .45
165gr .40
124gr 9mm

Other than that,

take one caliber at a time, and test three weights against each other.

230gr, 200gr, 180gr .45acp

180gr, 165gr, 155gr .40cal

147gr, 124gr, 115gr 9mm
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 9:05:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swampvol:
Hornady Black 110g Vmax 300blk.
View Quote
110 grain Varmageddon.  I would like to see you do it with 16 and 10 inch barrels.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 9:08:45 PM EST
Id like to see the new honady black SBR loads.  Just got a 10.5in upper and it needs some ammo.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 9:25:26 PM EST
Every GD round in every caliber has been beaten to death already on youtube with gel tests.  Its a known solid round to choice.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 9:25:48 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:


Bh tmk has a cannelure
View Quote
Okay, I see. That makes sense.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 9:28:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
.45acp 230gr Gold Dot
9mm 147gr Gold Dot
.40S&W 180gr Gold Dot


In the same block , same test, same length barrels.


You can include .380acp and 10mm if you want.
View Quote
So kind of like reproduce this?





That's a pretty cool idea.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 9:32:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2017 9:36:28 PM EST by JJREA]
Yeah I like that idea too.  Too much 9mm is as good as .40 and .45 going around.  "No discernable difference.  Difference is not enough to matter"  etc. etc.   Course maybe I'd have to eat my words.........  

Although, simply put, it's already done right there.  Of course you could see if you get different results.  Or introduce some barriers, because that is part of the argument and concern.  Also, add in .357 out of a 2-3" barrel.  

But that brings up a good question, do you use shorter barrels for a test like that?   OR service sized barrels?   So many of us carrying smaller guns now a days.  But not everyone.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 9:53:50 PM EST
MEN 56 g and Geco 55 g from 14.5 or 16 inch barrel.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 10:00:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2017 10:03:17 PM EST by mr_h]
hey BF, did you test the hornady 55gr GMX or the PPU 55gr SP i sent you? didnt see the video on yt.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 10:09:45 PM EST
.308 GDSP

.308 Fusion MSR
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 10:48:48 PM EST
GECO .223
GECO 5.56
MEN M193 56gr
ADI F1 (M855)
ADI/Australian Outback 69gr SMK
CBC/Magtech M193
CBC/Magtech 62gr 5.56 FMJ
RUAG HC (SS109)

Ideally from at least a 16" barrel 

The most badass of testing would have a normal close range shot and another at 100yds 
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 11:04:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2017 11:05:38 PM EST by pavlovwolf]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JJREA:
Yeah I like that idea too.  Too much 9mm is as good as .40 and .45 going around.  "No discernable difference.  Difference is not enough to matter"  etc. etc.   Course maybe I'd have to eat my words.........  

Although, simply put, it's already done right there.  Of course you could see if you get different results.  Or introduce some barriers, because that is part of the argument and concern.  Also, add in .357 out of a 2-3" barrel.  

But that brings up a good question, do you use shorter barrels for a test like that?   OR service sized barrels?   So many of us carrying smaller guns now a days.  But not everyone.
View Quote
I would think with a .45acp in the equation maybe service length would be best, unless you use a non 1911 gun for .45acp, then whatever the standard like 4.8" or whatever.

You actually could do the service length, and a shorter barrel, say a carry length.

Hell, you could gather a lot of data if you did the test with all three weights in all three barrel lengths in all the calibers, or at least the most popular, 9,40,45 against each other.

Test 1

1a. All heavy weights for each caliber in service length barrels
1b. Repeat for mid weights
1c.Repeat for lighter weights

Test 2

2a. All heavy weights for each caliber in mid length barrels
2b. Mid weights
3c. lighter weights

Test 3

3a. Heavy weights in compact length barrels
3b. Mid weights
3c. Light weights

Write all data down and put it in a spread sheet for use in the ammo oracle here. Also take photos and save for the same purpose.


You can then use that same protocol to test other brands in each caliber and barrel length and weight. Some designs seem to do better with some calibers or weights or velocities than others.

It would interesting to see an actual set of tests done in as scientific a way as possible like this.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 1:09:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2017 1:12:44 AM EST by spydercomonkey]
M855A1 reduced velocity test, similar to your reduced velocity test of the 62gr Fusion, in order to determine what the minimum frag velocity is for the EPR projectile.

Shoot it once at 1700fps. If it frags, reduce velocity down 100fps, until it ceases to frag. If it doesn't frag at 1700, increase to 1800.

For example, if it's fragmenting at 1600fps, then M855A1 is a 500yd+ cartridge. If it's only fragmenting at 1900fps+...likely closer to 300yd.

Right now there is no data on what the minimal velocity is, so this data would be extremely useful for both understanding the true capabilities of M855A1, as well as discussions of future calibers that use the EPR projectile.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 4:15:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2017 4:20:03 AM EST by BULLDAWG_556]
I'd like to see my duty load. Tested from a 14.5 as well as 10.3 both unsuppressed. Federal 55 gr tactical bonded 223T1 chronograph and gel, steel plate too maybe some windshield glass into gel for the win....

Also like to see the 75 gr PPU out of a 10.3 unsuppressed
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 5:25:37 AM EST
Get up on a few Grendel loads.  I would like to see the gel test vs 5.56 ammo.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 5:55:36 AM EST
I'd like to see what happens when you put 200 rounds through a hotel door.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 8:09:49 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:


I would think with a .45acp in the equation maybe service length would be best, unless you use a non 1911 gun for .45acp, then whatever the standard like 4.8" or whatever.

You actually could do the service length, and a shorter barrel, say a carry length.

Hell, you could gather a lot of data if you did the test with all three weights in all three barrel lengths in all the calibers, or at least the most popular, 9,40,45 against each other.

Test 1

1a. All heavy weights for each caliber in service length barrels
1b. Repeat for mid weights
1c.Repeat for lighter weights

Test 2

2a. All heavy weights for each caliber in mid length barrels
2b. Mid weights
3c. lighter weights

Test 3

3a. Heavy weights in compact length barrels
3b. Mid weights
3c. Light weights

Write all data down and put it in a spread sheet for use in the ammo oracle here. Also take photos and save for the same purpose.


You can then use that same protocol to test other brands in each caliber and barrel length and weight. Some designs seem to do better with some calibers or weights or velocities than others.

It would interesting to see an actual set of tests done in as scientific a way as possible like this.
View Quote
that's all pretty pointless and repetitive seeing as how handgun rounds have been tested to death over the last 15 years.  Just go through Luckygunner's tests
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 8:14:26 AM EST
How about the ZQI 7.62x51mm
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 9:16:44 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JJREA:
Yeah I like that idea too.  Too much 9mm is as good as .40 and .45 going around.  "No discernable difference.  Difference is not enough to matter"  etc. etc.   Course maybe I'd have to eat my words.........  

Although, simply put, it's already done right there.  Of course you could see if you get different results.  Or introduce some barriers, because that is part of the argument and concern.  Also, add in .357 out of a 2-3" barrel.  

But that brings up a good question, do you use shorter barrels for a test like that?   OR service sized barrels?   So many of us carrying smaller guns now a days.  But not everyone.
View Quote
That last part is actually a really good point. The whole "there isn't much difference" thing is really dependent on using a service length barrel. Because velocity is a pretty big component of getting bullets to expand properly I'd expect to see a much bigger difference in performance from short barrels between calibers.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 9:52:23 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mcantu:
GECO .223
GECO 5.56
MEN M193 56gr
ADI F1 (M855)
ADI/Australian Outback 69gr SMK
CBC/Magtech M193
CBC/Magtech 62gr 5.56 FMJ
RUAG HC (SS109)

Ideally from at least a 16" barrel 

The most badass of testing would have a normal close range shot and another at 100yds 
View Quote
I agree with most of these.
Would love to see the results from:
GECO .223
GECO 5.56
MEN M193 56gr
CBC/Magtech 77gr OTM
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 10:02:00 AM EST
GECO 223 and 5.56 55grn FMJ. MEN 5.56 56grn FMJ and CBC/Magtech 5.56 62grn FMJ (lead core only).

As far as I know, nobody has published any gel tests on those popular rounds. While they may be boring and simple in nature FMJ performance, it would be interesting to say the least. Science !!

GECO 223 and 5.56 have had a cult following as range ammo for years. Seems to be very accurate, fair priced ammo. There has been a "myth" that the Swiss made ammo has a precision made, thicker than normal FMJ, and will not fragment. It is not the same as M193. However, no tests have been made (video wise) to bust this myth.

Be the first.

IM me if you need the test ammo.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 10:10:26 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mr_h:
hey BF, did you test the hornady 55gr GMX or the PPU 55gr SP i sent you? didnt see the video on yt.
View Quote
Yes, sir. Both are on the AR-15.com YouTube channel.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 10:26:26 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:
M855A1 reduced velocity test, similar to your reduced velocity test of the 62gr Fusion, in order to determine what the minimum frag velocity is for the EPR projectile.

Shoot it once at 1700fps. If it frags, reduce velocity down 100fps, until it ceases to frag. If it doesn't frag at 1700, increase to 1800.

For example, if it's fragmenting at 1600fps, then M855A1 is a 500yd+ cartridge. If it's only fragmenting at 1900fps+...likely closer to 300yd.

Right now there is no data on what the minimal velocity is, so this data would be extremely useful for both understanding the true capabilities of M855A1, as well as discussions of future calibers that use the EPR projectile.

Thanks!
View Quote
Yes, sir. I'm working on exactly that. I did one reduced velocity test using a 14.5" barrel and a reduced charge. I did not use my 11.5" barrel because it's 1:9" and a lower MV also means even lower RPMs so it would not be a good simulation of long range performance. I'm working on getting a 7" 1:7" twist upper to do more low velocity testing on EPR and other ammo.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 10:34:25 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BULLDAWG_556:
I'd like to see my duty load. Tested from a 14.5 as well as 10.3 both unsuppressed. Federal 55 gr tactical bonded 223T1 chronograph and gel, steel plate too maybe some windshield glass into gel for the win....

Also like to see the 75 gr PPU out of a 10.3 unsuppressed
View Quote
I did 75gr PPU from an 11.5". Is that close enough?
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 10:34:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ErikS:
Get up on a few Grendel loads.  I would like to see the gel test vs 5.56 ammo.
View Quote
I will definitely test some more 6.5 Grendel.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 10:41:12 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:


Yes, sir. I'm working on exactly that. I did one reduced velocity test using a 14.5" barrel and a reduced charge. I did not use my 11.5" barrel because it's 1:9" and a lower MV also means even lower RPMs so it would not be a good simulation of long range performance. I'm working on getting a 7" 1:7" twist upper to do more low velocity testing on EPR and other ammo.
View Quote
Well we know it won't do it at 1300 fps :D
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 10:43:50 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mcantu:
that's all pretty pointless and repetitive seeing as how handgun rounds have been tested to death over the last 15 years.  Just go through Luckygunner's tests
View Quote
He just wants to have them in the same place to support or refute the "9mm is the same as .45" argument. Not a bad idea, really. The data exists, but it might be kind of cool to have a newer side by side photo.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 10:47:19 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1:
Well we know it won't do it at 1300 fps :D
View Quote
You're not shilling properly if you don't post a link, dammit.


Thank you for that testing, BTW.

In case you guys didn't see, Matt tested 62gr EPR from a FiveseveN.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 12:24:46 PM EST
Next;

Another vote for GECO 223 55gr

Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor 143gr ELD-X

Anything in 6.5CM, dude there's no test results of this caliber available, best I can find is Larry V popping a watermelon with the folks from MHSA.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 12:42:07 PM EST
IIRC it's already on the agenda, somewhere.

6.5 Grendel Wolf 100 Grain.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 12:44:00 PM EST
Yes. That's definitely going to happen. May be a while, though.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 3:42:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:


I did 75gr PPU from an 11.5". Is that close enough?
View Quote
That was Suppressed though wasn’t it?
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 4:13:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BULLDAWG_556:
That was Suppressed though wasn’t it?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BULLDAWG_556:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:


I did 75gr PPU from an 11.5". Is that close enough?
That was Suppressed though wasn’t it?
Yes, I think so. But that doesn't have any effect in terminal performance.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 9:36:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Yes, sir. I'm working on exactly that. I did one reduced velocity test using a 14.5" barrel and a reduced charge. I did not use my 11.5" barrel because it's 1:9" and a lower MV also means even lower RPMs so it would not be a good simulation of long range performance. I'm working on getting a 7" 1:7" twist upper to do more low velocity testing on EPR and other ammo.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:
M855A1 reduced velocity test, similar to your reduced velocity test of the 62gr Fusion, in order to determine what the minimum frag velocity is for the EPR projectile.

Shoot it once at 1700fps. If it frags, reduce velocity down 100fps, until it ceases to frag. If it doesn't frag at 1700, increase to 1800.

For example, if it's fragmenting at 1600fps, then M855A1 is a 500yd+ cartridge. If it's only fragmenting at 1900fps+...likely closer to 300yd.

Right now there is no data on what the minimal velocity is, so this data would be extremely useful for both understanding the true capabilities of M855A1, as well as discussions of future calibers that use the EPR projectile.

Thanks!
Yes, sir. I'm working on exactly that. I did one reduced velocity test using a 14.5" barrel and a reduced charge. I did not use my 11.5" barrel because it's 1:9" and a lower MV also means even lower RPMs so it would not be a good simulation of long range performance. I'm working on getting a 7" 1:7" twist upper to do more low velocity testing on EPR and other ammo.
Awesome! This will also be of great interest to The Firearm Blog / Nathaniel - all those fancy calibers he's designed need good data on the EPR frag minimum to model properly.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/09/09/romulan-vulcan-preference-driven-vs-process-driven-design-field-small-arms-ammunition/

Just watched your test of the EPR at 2400fps - Nasty.
Link Posted: 10/20/2017 9:15:49 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:


Awesome! This will also be of great interest to The Firearm Blog / Nathaniel - all those fancy calibers he's designed need good data on the EPR frag minimum to model properly.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/09/09/romulan-vulcan-preference-driven-vs-process-driven-design-field-small-arms-ammunition/

Just watched your test of the EPR at 2400fps - Nasty.
View Quote
Yeah, he's the one who requested the reduced velocity test. So far EPR seems to be the bestest thing ever. It punches holes in level III+ steel armor, gets through CMU blocks and other barriers better than pretty much any other 5.56mm everyone possibly M995, creates frag nasty wounds down to at least 2,400 fps, and is anecdotally reported to be more accurate than M855. I'm in love and I want truckloads of it.
Link Posted: 10/23/2017 6:19:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2017 4:26:36 PM EST by bryceerron]
With the 11.5 included in the tests... I would request the following....
Federal 62 grain Trophy Bonded tip (vital shok)
Remington 62 grain Hypersonic bonded (core lokt)
Remington 55 grain PSP
nosler 60 grain partition
BH 5.56 69 grain TMK

You are by far my favorite source for video testing data.
I would also like to contribute by either helping with funding or purchasing some of the ammo for testing.... Let me know via Email...
Link Posted: 10/24/2017 6:35:44 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lostintejas:
IIRC it's already on the agenda, somewhere.

6.5 Grendel Wolf 100 Grain.
View Quote
This.
Link Posted: 10/24/2017 10:23:03 AM EST
Email sent.
Link Posted: 10/28/2017 7:25:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2017 10:49:22 AM EST
What did you have in mind?
Link Posted: 10/30/2017 11:56:00 AM EST
Watched the latest M855A1 video.

Sure would've like to have seen the plates/results.

Link Posted: 10/31/2017 1:14:55 AM EST
Send me an address and I'll send you some of the 62 grain OTMs to test.
How many do you need to load and test?
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