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A 10.5" at ~11,000 rounds (Page 2 of 3)
Tadaa! Josiah is just the best. Free replacement barrel for one that was worn out after fulfilling it's normal and expected service life - and then some (by quite a bit, some 10.5's will tank at 3000 rounds - this one made it to 11,000). He reached out and offered to replace it - free. And even said OK, when I asked if I could try 11.5, which is the new hotness now. (It's the middle one) So, here we have the original upper (bottom), still with the barrel on it. A spare 10.5 (top) I already had purchased from PSA as part of a separate kit, from around 3 years ago or so. And the new 11.5" from PSA. (middle) one thing about PSA that I really like is they constantly will tweak and improve. Note this new 11.5 barrel has a pre-machined dimple for the gas-block screw. The older ones do not. After I pull off the old barrel, I'll go ahead and chamber check and throat check all 3 barrels, just to see if there's anything interesting to note between a 2018, 2020, and 2024 barrel. Also, to change gears - waste not want not, I have a few ideas in mind for benficial after-life for my old 10.5... |
Let's pull it apart and take a closer look Gas block screws were on rather tight! But they came off. Barrel nut was fine, and barrel just fell right out after removal. Whole gun was a bit... baked. Look at the fouling under the gas tube, at the barrel nut. |
 Muzzle was rather built up!  Apparently no markings anywhere on the barrel. That's odd. Maybe they wore off?  Gas tube flange looks perfectly fine. I'll probably reuse it, that's a good flange still. THAT blow my mind, actually. I would have expected that to be worn to a nub.  Bolt    My main concern here is the handguard is the old tech, and this doesn't appear to have any of the more recent locking parts, that prevent it from sliding forward or rotating. Just the 2 clamp screws. Here's hoping the rebuild is solid. It never slid before, so maybe it still won't now.  Muzzle has some erosion, but I was expecting worse. Heck, are the heavy 73+ gr problems just from all the muzzle crown deposits? |
Now let's pull the bolt apart Some people replace the little roll pin that holds the ejector in. I don't, it's fine. According to White Oak (thr National Match 20" rifle guys), a bolt tail is important to measure - factory (he says) is 0.2503" and he discards at .2499". This bolt is at .2490", so we'll past his spec. Am I tossing it? Nope, it's fine. This isn't a 20" national match pushing back a rifle buffer - this is a carbine gas that runs a lot higher port pressure. If I start short stroking, I'll start here. To date, I haven't. Thinking about replacing that ejector spring though.  |
Now lets measure headspace. Recall: 1.4636 closes = GO, 1.4676 closes Civ no go, 1.4696 closes = .mil No Go 1.4736 = field Now, let's chamber check the headspace of Used 11,000 round BBL 1.4666" closes (good - upper end of civ 223) New 10.5" (@2000) 1.4646" closes and rotates (tighter end. In spec) New 11.5" (@2024) 1.4666" closes and rotates (good - high end, but I actually prefer that as more forgiving, but still in spec) |
And now, let's look at throat lead. The farther the bullet has to jump, the more bouncing it's doing getting there. My general reference bullet is a Nosler 80 gr. So a load with that, loaded long enough to hit the lands, in 11,000 round BBL 2.7345" New 10.5" (2000) 2.4750" New 11.5" (2004) 2.4580" (.2765 shorter) Meaning that 11.5 looks like it will have a nice reliable chamber yet potentially the most accurate. BTW, notice how the 2000 and 2004 BBLs muzzle threads are different, in that they don't go all the way to the shoulder now. I think that's on purpose. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: It was nitride. I'm happy enough with getting 11k rounds through it. Technically, i can probably keep running it since the 55 FMJ's are not keyholing yet. Googling, 10.5's typically go from around 3000-10,000 rounds or so; maybe some longer. Depending of course on the ammo and abuse. I think 11,000 rounds of such heavy mag-dump use I gave it, is actually pretty good. (It was this upper that a learned REAL FAST why the USGI spec is plastic handguards with heat shields - takes you about 3 mags fired at the right cycle rate to figure that one out!) I probably should upgrade to an 11.5, which is the new hotness, but heck - I have a spare untouched 10.5 on the shelf from a prior project, so there we go. Haven't decided if I'm going to replace the bolt, or just check the springs and keep rolling... WAIT! It's a PSA! I just realized, their customer service is ridiculous enough, they might replace that! That's a totally unreasonable ask, since this is normal wear and no way should anyone expect for them to actually warrantee that. ... but it'll be an interesting "why-not?"  Ok... let me look over my purchase history.... ok, scrolling to page 2... OK.. page 3.... Here it is. Found it!: https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10-5-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-9-lightweight-m-lok-freedom-upper-with-bcg-ch-516446396.html https://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/0423dea8e9791990cba1722182d60508/5/1/516446396_2.jpg That's a lovely jet-black gas block in that photo. FWIW, dumping your water glass on the sucker to boil away and make it cool enough to avoid catching your car interior on fire, discolor/rusts the gas block a good bit. Still runs perfectly great. Gas tube is fine, barrel and handguard never discolored, even from the water dump abuse. Rest of the gun is great, bolt is fine, (well, after replacing the ejector springs). Reliability has been shockingly good. It's kind of a great little upper. Only thing I've done is replaced the muzzle device, and threw a Wolverine Red Dot on as the sight. As to accuracy: I've taken this little guy out to 600 yards, and accuracy kind of surprised me - especially with just a red dot. Did a temporary rezero (with a whole lot of clicks) and we were passing it around and nailing 10's and X's on a regulation 600 yard NRA bullseye with it, which kind of amazed everybody there. It stabilized 77gr bullets just fine. (Obviously a low wind day; as 600 yard wind calls would be tricky with at 10.5") @PalmettoStateArmory - nice job, this guy lasted easily as long as most "premium" boutique brand barrels and has been a total win; I'd recommend it to anybody. If you think the worn out barrel is still under warrantee, then let's talk! (ha!) I like threads like this. I did this to another manufacturer's barrel (>20k but it was a rifle barrel and gas system) once and they were on me stat with an offer so sweet that I am still shooting it today. I can't imagine PSA would let you gloat for long either (ETA: nope, of course not). The 600 yard thing? My PSA course beaters can do 600 with Wolf steel case if the wind isn't too bad, and yeah, the gas blocks have taken a distinct brownish orange tinge. I think there is some sort of sweet spot for every barrel length and gas system length that allows this - I am sure there are more variables, but it's cool when a $350 upper does this with no fanfare. But yes, those short ARs erode the gas ports, muzzles, and muzzle devices like crazy, no matter who makes them. They also beat the crap out of the BCG and recoil spring, as your logs show. You're right about the gas port, I expected worse. Sometimes it's the length of barrel between muzzle and gas port that determines erosion rate, since that's when gas is flowing through there. |
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Originally Posted By PalmettoStateArmory: We made his barrel in house at DC Machine. The only FN barrels that we use are the CHF/CL that are advertised as FN made. @lazyengineer We appreciate your detailed write up. If you PM me your address, I will send you a fresh barrel to start over again with! Thanks, Josiah Originally Posted By PalmettoStateArmory: Originally Posted By jmreagan: Of course PSA sells a great barrel. FN-USA is still making all PSA barrels for them aren't they? Still impressive though! I was expecting the gas port erosion to be 2-3X's what it actually is. Good job documenting. And run that barrel until its totally done and report back as long as it's still safe to shoot that is. We made his barrel in house at DC Machine. The only FN barrels that we use are the CHF/CL that are advertised as FN made. @lazyengineer We appreciate your detailed write up. If you PM me your address, I will send you a fresh barrel to start over again with! Thanks, Josiah Hells to the fuck yea! This is why I love this company. It ain’t hard people……take note! |
New barrel on - ready for service. Used 33MS antisoeze on the threads and took it up to 55 ft-lbs, in steps. Then used a crush washer and put a drop of blue loc tight, and took muzzle up to 35 ft-lb Borescanned BBL. Throat looks decently uniform. Muzzle looks fine. Of interest, gas port is drilled right in a valley between lands. Which is what the perfectionists ask for (rather than cutting into a land(, and everyone else says doesn't matter. Not sure if lucky coincidence, or by design, but it was a nice touch. Gas block self centers now thanks to the dimple, and is a dollar bill off of the shoulder, like it's supposed to be. Again, nice touch. New parts in gun: Barrel Ejector roll pin (found a pile) Ejector spring That's it I know everyone considers the 11.5 the hotness, and I'm glad to have it and will run it. But TBH, I can feel the weight difference vs a 10.5". |
  (on it's way down to full emmersion) In its retirement the old 10.5" shall be forever preserved and serve a useful purpose as rebar. And so ends the 10.5 - it has served me DAMNED WELL!  (That should be interesting in 100+ years when that gets demo'd out and discovered..._ 
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Just an incredible thread with more real information that 99% of the internet. OP, thanks so much and kudos to PSA. I have 3 PSA ARs and laugh to myself when the keyboard commandos talk shit. PSA has perfected the system of giving the buyer a quality AR at any price range they choose. Bravo OP!
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| I'm not sure exactly which upper he used, but it was a Nitrided barrel, so it probably wasn't their "premium" line. They have Premium uppers with CHF/CL barrels and they use PSA's Premium BCGs. Which BCG comes with the Classic and Freedom lines, I couldn't say. I'm not really sure on the Premium line, either. The nature of steel quality and modern manufacturing technology makes me think the most basic, low cost parts would probably work very well, as long as they're in spec. I guess the QC of the "spec" part is where the line between garbage and economy lies. |
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Originally Posted By Tiribulus: I'm curious which of PSA's BCGs rode 11,000 hard rounds to victory so far. SKU and link are on page 1 - I'm still running it. Ran 60 rounds yesterday on the replacement barrel. Looks like a standard PSA mil-spec BCG. Don't think it's malonited. I'll look again when I get a chance. Sometime next month I'm planning on running it wide open again on the binary, and it'll probably have a 500-1000+ round day. Maybe more. It will be a "wear gloves", day. My brother has a bunch of Russian steel he wants to dump. Blah- steel - never run that crap. But, eh, toying with pulling the replacement 11.5 off and going back to my spare new PSA 10.5 anyway - haven't committed. I like the handling characteristics of the 10.5 better. So if the steel smokes this one, kind of don't care in the meantime, it all runs great.Oh! And a friend is coming down from Wisconsin and is bringing her thin 18 year old French Exchange student who has been quaking in her Parisian heels about going shooting in Texas. We'll put her to work on burning up that steel ammo in it. Ha! We'll drag her Hog hunting in the mud with the thermal afterwards. 'MERICA! |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: SKU and link are on page 1 - I'm still running it. Ran 60 rounds yesterday on the replacement barrel. Looks like a standard PSA mil-spec BCG. Don't think it's malonited. I'll look again when I get a chance. Sometime next month I'm planning on running it wide open again on the binary, and it'll probably have a 500-1000+ round day. Maybe more. It will be a "wear gloves", day. My brother has a bunch of Russian steel he wants to dump. Blah- steel - never run that crap. But, eh, toying with pulling the replacement 11.5 off and going back to my spare new PSA 10.5 anyway - haven't committed. I like the handling characteristics of the 10.5 better. So if the steel smokes this one, kind of don't care in the meantime, it all runs great.Oh! And a friend is coming down from Wisconsin and is bringing her thin Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By Tiribulus: I'm curious which of PSA's BCGs rode 11,000 hard rounds to victory so far. SKU and link are on page 1 - I'm still running it. Ran 60 rounds yesterday on the replacement barrel. Looks like a standard PSA mil-spec BCG. Don't think it's malonited. I'll look again when I get a chance. Sometime next month I'm planning on running it wide open again on the binary, and it'll probably have a 500-1000+ round day. Maybe more. It will be a "wear gloves", day. My brother has a bunch of Russian steel he wants to dump. Blah- steel - never run that crap. But, eh, toying with pulling the replacement 11.5 off and going back to my spare new PSA 10.5 anyway - haven't committed. I like the handling characteristics of the 10.5 better. So if the steel smokes this one, kind of don't care in the meantime, it all runs great.Oh! And a friend is coming down from Wisconsin and is bringing her thin  Here's what it looks like with an 11.5" in the field. Performance was good, bolt is fine, but look how much bigger it is now with just that 1" extra length. French girl wanted some glam-shots, so here you go. TBH, I had more fun with the mom's, but she was a cool kid and shot well, and was a good student. Better safety practices than the more experienced dudes I was running with; I'd hog hunt at night with her - and actually did. Another angle, this of one of the mom's running it with the 11.5" BBL.  (should this still be here in the Pistol section? It was a "pistol" at one time, but an SBR now...) |
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You took an awesome thread and made it awesomer! The info is great and this proves what most of us have said for years. ARs are plug and play. In spec parts + build QC = a fully functional rifle...er, pistol. love it! PS. The French girl looks great, but could use a little Texas sun! |
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Originally Posted By jdk1: You took an awesome thread and made it awesomer! The info is great and this proves what most of us have said for years. ARs are plug and play. In spec parts + build QC = a fully functional rifle...er, pistol. love it! PS. The French girl looks great, but could use a little Texas sun! Glad you like it. Here's another mom that was with us - who is also very cool. She said it's fine to post, and had a ball shooting guns under the eclipse. It's at about 50% partial here. 200 yard gong, (some shots went under due to shorter zero) |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: BOOM! And THAT is PSA ladies and gentlemen! PM sent, thanks Josiah! Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By PalmettoStateArmory: Originally Posted By jmreagan: Of course PSA sells a great barrel. FN-USA is still making all PSA barrels for them aren't they? Still impressive though! I was expecting the gas port erosion to be 2-3X's what it actually is. Good job documenting. And run that barrel until its totally done and report back as long as it's still safe to shoot that is. We made his barrel in house at DC Machine. The only FN barrels that we use are the CHF/CL that are advertised as FN made. @lazyengineer We appreciate your detailed write up. If you PM me your address, I will send you a fresh barrel to start over again with! Thanks, Josiah BOOM! And THAT is PSA ladies and gentlemen! PM sent, thanks Josiah! PSA just lost a customer. ‘Cause you didn’t have to buy a new one. Nice job on the write up and documentation. Incidentally, regarding the yaw mystery; someone posted a slow mo video a while back. Bullets were yawing a surprising amount coming out of the barrel, then going through a series of gyrations on their way to becoming more stable at various ranges. |
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Originally Posted By -Ascent-: That’s awesome. I’ve always liked PSA and bought a bunch of stuff from them. They’re a stand up company! Keep us updated on how the new barrel does! Heck yes, great thread OP!!! Love the ability to take these apart and play! |
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Originally Posted By Tiribulus: This is one of my favorite threads of all time on this site. I have it bookmarked actually. Florida girl loved it too.  https://rumble.com/shorts/v74oc6k https://rumble.com/shorts/v74oc6k |
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[I cut out my non-germane, dating stuff] Anyway, love this gun. Now that I have mastered a good Mk311 load,  (Need to fix that label, its that fps out of the 11.5) and people can CQB shoot steel, it's now more popular than even the Stribog with the dates. It's just FUN, with no recoil. It's loud ,- thank God we have hearing protection. Keep your supressors, everyone loves it as-is without a bulky supressor, because it's light and lean. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: [I cut out my non-germane, dating stuff] Anyway, love this gun. Now that I have mastered a good Mk311 load, https://i.postimg.cc/2Sx61PXF/image.png (Need to fix that label, its that fps out of the 11.5) and people can CQB shoot steel, it's now more popular than even the Stribog with the dates. It's just FUN, with no recoil. It's loud ,- thank God we have hearing protection. Keep your supressors, everyone loves it as-is without a bulky supressor, because it's light and lean. Love this thread, shooting steel up close, no cans, an affordable upper getting it done and of course the great looking ladies. |
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Originally Posted By cjcutter: Love this thread, shooting steel up close, no cans, an affordable upper getting it done and of course the great looking ladies. Originally Posted By cjcutter: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: [I cut out my non-germane, dating stuff] Anyway, love this gun. Now that I have mastered a good Mk311 load, https://i.postimg.cc/2Sx61PXF/image.png (Need to fix that label, its that fps out of the 11.5) and people can CQB shoot steel, it's now more popular than even the Stribog with the dates. It's just FUN, with no recoil. It's loud ,- thank God we have hearing protection. Keep your supressors, everyone loves it as-is without a bulky supressor, because it's light and lean. Love this thread, shooting steel up close, no cans, an affordable upper getting it done and of course the great looking ladies. Can't get the Hot Hungarian to go yet, damnit. She is sayinh hard no , but we'll see. Her friend is coming this summer, so maybe then. Polish coworker chick has a cousin that wants to go, so maybe. American sailboat chick wants me to take her... maybe I will (Complex chick) Anyway! Helpimg a ftiend working on engagement skill.. https://rumble.com/embed/v77ejbu/?pub=1shvxy |
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I have one of those 10.5s in a pistol build. And one of the fsb 11.5s. They all work fine. Here's a 300 yard group with the 11.5 Attached File |
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Originally Posted By 03RN: I have one of those 10.5s in a pistol build. And one of the fsb 11.5s. They all work fine. Here's a 300 yard group with the 11.5 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/1000004691_jpg-3759634.JPG Have you posted a review anywhere here on the 11.5 upper? |
A 10.5" at ~11,000 rounds (Page 2 of 3)
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