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Posted: 9/25/2019 12:43:37 PM EDT
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Howdy all.
My wife can handle an AR carbine, but she doesn't have a whole lot of upper body strength to hold the weapon up for any length of time. I've started considering an AR in 9mm to see if that would work for her. Not interested in AR "pistol variants." What I would be looking for is an AR carbine in 9mm that uses Glock mags. Must have a bolt hold-open on empty mag. Really don't want to spend mega-dollars on this, and I've never built one out of parts so although that may be an option I'd rather get a full complete rifle. Suggestions? Thanks in advance Mike |
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I don't think a 9mm AR is any lighter than the 5.56 version, but OK. The ammo is heavier for sure (avg 9mm is .450 oz vs 5.56 .410 oz).
Sounds like the OP just needs an excuse to buy a new rifle  The Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is about as light as you're going to find for something that takes Glock mags (4.25lbs unloaded). QC10 makes a great lower, but is billet=heavy. Standard AR-15 is about 5.8lbs, you'd have to find a pistol variant 9mm to get much lighter than that. |
TNW Carbine
My only complaint are the old style assembly pins and the crappy trigger. I fixed one of my triggers with a grinder, stones, and springs, haven't gotten to the other one. I have four barrels, 9mm Para, .45 ACP, 10 mm, and .40 S&W. .357 Sig and .22LR barrels and bolts are also available. |
Keep your powder dry, and watch your back trail.
The Unites States of America - Exceptional People, Exceptional Land
The Unites States of America - Exceptional People, Exceptional Land
As has already been said, a standard AR 9mm will weigh essentially the same as a standard AR 556. Have both in varying sizes and people are surprised they weigh about the same. Some have stated the 9 has more kick than the 556 due to the blowback action. Though, if it gets you a new gun, go for it
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The bigger hole in the barrel save a little weight, but if you want to lighten it up get a "pistol" with an SBA3 brace. It shoulders like a rifle at full extension. PSA has lots of options in AR9 but not sure about LRBHO with Glock mags.
PSA AR-9's |
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9mm AR isn't going to save much weight. Shorten it up a bit and you can save some weight. I used a Spikes glock mag lower for my build. I don't see much reason to have a long barrel 9mm, you're not gaining much velocity with the longer barrel. Mine is a 4" barrel.
Attached File |
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Originally Posted By mbsigman:
Howdy all. My wife can handle an AR carbine, but she doesn't have a whole lot of upper body strength to hold the weapon up for any length of time. I've started considering an AR in 9mm to see if that would work for her. Not interested in AR "pistol variants." What I would be looking for is an AR carbine in 9mm that uses Glock mags. Must have a bolt hold-open on empty mag.Really don't want to spend mega-dollars on this, and I've never built one out of parts so although that may be an option I'd rather get a full complete rifle. Suggestions? Thanks in advance Mike You might look at this one, https://fm-products.com/fm9b-16-glock-9mm-ar-rifle/ Mine has a nice finish and shoots really nice... Almost Zero kick or Muzzle Climb. I have a red dot and a Octane 45 HD Can on mine... I dig it, my better than my Scorpion Evo... Also, Glock Mags are a plus as I have, plenty. Might also get her a Sling, to help support it. AS said a few times above at rifle length, its not going to be much lighter, if any than a .223/5.56 of the same length.. |
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Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
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Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to remind not to shit in the water supply.""
| I agree that 9mm AR is not at all lighter than the 5.56 mm, and that Kel-Tec SUB-2000 is a better idea for a person with weak arms. Not only it's light overall, its weight is proportionally more rearward. The main downside is, a Subbie has a noticeable recoil. It also lacks LRBHO. |
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Originally Posted By lasnyder:
the recoil of an AR9 9mm blow back is worse than a 5.56, with its much heavier bolt group.... you just don't get the muzzle blast... has she tried a pencil barrel 5.56 without a lot of crap added to the front end? |
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Originally Posted By Outrider: I was going to say the same. Unless you go with CMMG's radial blowback bolt/barrel you have a lot of mass slinging around in a 9mm upper. No real weight savings either. |
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This isn't what you specifically asked for but my wife is lacking the same upper body strength. Early in our relationship I had a Colt M16 RR. I tried rifle calibers, I tried pistol calibers in super light short barreled configurations. The short light stuff she could hold up better. But the light weight tended to give her more felt recoil. So control, even in semi was more difficult for her. I had bought a PS90 because they had come out recently. I wanted to try one. I found one locally used at a good price. It was okay but didn't do much for me. Like a 5.56X45 the bullet is small and light and being a pistol caliber the recoil is very mild. Also with a bullpup design, the majority of the weight is close to the body. I had my wife try it. She loved it. We have since found a SBR PS90. That is her gun. I did get a .22lr upper with a 6" barrel and an EO Tech on it. She liked it okay, but loves the PS 90 SBR. I would highly recommend that you find a used PS90 at a good price. Have your wife try it. If she likes it, keep it. If she doesn't, sell it for what you paid for it. Good luck with the wife carbine project. Scott |
Below is my .223 slick side, pencil barrel 16" carbine that weighs 5 pounds 12 oz empty with sling, and 5 pounds 10 oz without it. I built it in search of minimum weight while still using aluminum upper and lower.
In comparison (subtracting the weight of the Burris 332 prism sights) my 16" 9mm carbine weighs 7 pounds 9 oz. My 9mm 8.3" pistol weighs 6 pounds 9 oz. 
That means: 1) My 8.3" AR-9 pistol is 16 oz lighter than my 16" AR-9 carbine. 2) My lightweight slick side, pencil barrel, entry stock, but still all aluminum 16" .223 AR-15 carbine is 15 oz lighter than my 8.3" AR-9 pistol. Now, to be fair I run 10 oz buffers in my 9mm ARs, so you could shave off 4 oz in each of them using a lighter buffer, but my lightweight .223 16" carbine would still be nearly 3/4 of a pound lighter than my 8.3" pistol. ---- If you really want another firearm and you're using weight as an excuse to justify a 9mm AR, then you really want to build a pistol with a brace, not a carbine. I hand load Hornady 115 gr HAPS and 115 gr XTPs for both my 9mm ARs. Even specifically loading for higher velocity in a longer barrel, the difference in velocity is just 1525 fps versus 1350 fps. The 8.3" barrel is just as accurate and only gives up about 20 yards in effective range. Unless you need a carbine to shoot in a carbine match, its hard to find any significant upside to the carbine over the pistol. |
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I definitely think you'd be better off building a light weight .223 versus a 9mm carbine. If you'll entertain a pistol, still a .223 with a lightweight barrel will wind up weighing less on the scale then a 9mm, unless the 9mm has a super short barrel. But with a short barrel, you run the risk of an inexperienced shooting getting a hand, or digit in front of the muzzle and all the pain that follows.
My not yet built Glock 9mm lower definitely weighs more than a standard AR lower, since it has so much more aluminum left in it. Add a heavier BCG and buffer for blowback operation, and a barrel with a larger diameter bore, equals heavier finished product. You save a few oz.s not needing forward assist, but that is about it. More than offset by the BCG. For what it's worth, I can one hand my 16 in FN pencil barreled carbine. With an old style collapsible stock, you can shave a little weight off the waffle stock. Use a standard carbine buffer, good for another fraction of an oz. A standard pistol grip, or moe grip without a core might shave a tiny amount. Shark Arms had magnesium uppers a little while back, not sure if they are still in stock. |
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Originally Posted By mbsigman: Howdy all. My wife can handle an AR carbine, but she doesn't have a whole lot of upper body strength to hold the weapon up for any length of time. I've started considering an AR in 9mm to see if that would work for her. Not interested in AR "pistol variants." What I would be looking for is an AR carbine in 9mm that uses Glock mags. Must have a bolt hold-open on empty mag. Really don't want to spend mega-dollars on this, and I've never built one out of parts so although that may be an option I'd rather get a full complete rifle. Suggestions? Thanks in advance Mike I am a pretty big fan of the CMMG Banshee. Never had any issues with it, in 5k+ rounds I could probably count on one had the amount of cycling failures. Running it with a OSS can and no cycling issue as well. I have only tired factory glock mags as thats all I own and no issues what so ever. 
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Originally Posted By AL_Safety: I definitely think you'd be better off building a light weight .223 versus a 9mm carbine. If you'll entertain a pistol, still a .223 with a lightweight barrel will wind up weighing less on the scale then a 9mm, unless the 9mm has a super short barrel. But with a short barrel, you run the risk of an inexperienced shooting getting a hand, or digit in front of the muzzle and all the pain that follows. My not yet built Glock 9mm lower definitely weighs more than a standard AR lower, since it has so much more aluminum left in it. Add a heavier BCG and buffer for blowback operation, and a barrel with a larger diameter bore, equals heavier finished product. You save a few oz.s not needing forward assist, but that is about it. More than offset by the BCG. For what it's worth, I can one hand my 16 in FN pencil barreled carbine. With an old style collapsible stock, you can shave a little weight off the waffle stock. Use a standard carbine buffer, good for another fraction of an oz. A standard pistol grip, or moe grip without a core might shave a tiny amount. Shark Arms had magnesium uppers a little while back, not sure if they are still in stock. Ever lit off a 5.56 in a closed are the size of your living room? Weight is a minor concern and the worry about the short barrel and hand location can be remedied with a handstop. |
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Originally Posted By Outrider: I was going to say the same. Unless you go with CMMG's radial blowback bolt/barrel you have a lot of mass slinging around in a 9mm upper. No real weight savings either. Originally Posted By Outrider: Originally Posted By lasnyder: the recoil of an AR9 9mm blow back is worse than a 5.56, with its much heavier bolt group.... you just don't get the muzzle blast... has she tried a pencil barrel 5.56 without a lot of crap added to the front end? I was going to say the same. Unless you go with CMMG's radial blowback bolt/barrel you have a lot of mass slinging around in a 9mm upper. No real weight savings either.  |
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I’ve been working with my Brother’s fiance a little bit when we have all gone to the range and similarly she doesn’t have much upper body strength and dexterity for a rifle. In my opinion, i think she will do better with something like the M&P 15-22. A few reasons why i believe it is a better choice are, less recoil, less weight, especially if you get the pistol variant or form 1 and build an SBR. The caliber is absolutely lethal for defensive use inside a structure like a house or within 50-75 yards i would be confident. It gives you the opportunity to shoot more for the same money and it’s also a shit ton of fun. Great way to make her Want to go to the range. |
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Freedom FX-9, comes in several flavors. Receivers are shorter than standard AR, it meets all your criteria. I modded one a bit... It's blowback, but a hydraulic PCC buffer makes a big difference in felt recoil. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By IdahoPCCinc: How did a 5 year old thread get bumped ???. Slow moving forum, noob scrolling through til he found an interesting topic, replied. Of all the other folks replying, you're the only one that looked at the dates. Since it has new replies, shows up in active topics and folks pontificate. |
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If you don't already have one, a short barreled AR15 in 9mm is a hoot to shoot. Everyone who shoots mine smiles. I *highly* recommend a Kynshot hydraulic buffer though. The recoil in 9mm is weird, and feels more than 5.56. The kynshot makes it butter smooth. 4.5" - 5.5" if suppressed. 8.3" pencil barrel if not. |
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I’m in the middle of a 9mm assembly. I picked up a PSA upper to use on a standard AR-15 lower. Also picked up the endomag adapters for standard AR-15 magpul mags. I haven’t competed the assembly or the recipe. Like a hydrolic buffer, buffer weights and and extended buffer tube yet. AIM was out of stock cm so I ordered directly from endo .Attached File |
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Originally Posted By quietm4: I don't think a 9mm AR is any lighter than the 5.56 version, but OK. The ammo is heavier for sure (avg 9mm is .450 oz vs 5.56 .410 oz). Sounds like the OP just needs an excuse to buy a new rifle The Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is about as light as you're going to find for something that takes Glock mags (4.25lbs unloaded). QC10 makes a great lower, but is billet=heavy. Standard AR-15 is about 5.8lbs, you'd have to find a pistol variant 9mm to get much lighter than that. My stern glock mag adapter & bolt are for sale in EE FYI |
 The Ultimate Pistol Caliber Carbine PCC |
| i picked up a rifle on EE here a while back, was a WWSD build with KE's 9mm lower and an Odin Gun Works 9mm superlight barrel. Thing was too light for my liking, swapped out the Odin barrel for a standard pencil type 9mm 16". No LRBHO though, but runs 100% with everyhting from G26 to the super extended Glockamole mags i've used. |
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Originally Posted By mbsigman: Howdy all. My wife can handle an AR carbine, but she doesn't have a whole lot of upper body strength to hold the weapon up for any length of time. I’ve started considering an AR in 9mm to see if that would work for her. Not interested in AR "pistol variants." What I would be looking for is an AR carbine in 9mm that uses Glock mags. Must have a bolt hold-open on empty mag. Really don't want to spend mega-dollars on this, and I've never built one out of parts so although that may be an option I'd rather get a full complete rifle. Suggestions? Thanks in advance Mike Why don’t you just get an adapter? The Sylvan is cheaper, but it may have some issues with Glock mags. Mags may need to be thinned slightly. Stern Defense has 3 different 9mm adapters. Glock, Beretta, and S&W/Sig. By using an adapter, you can use your standard AR lower. Though the buffer will need to be changed to a 9mm AR buffer. Personally, I have the Glock and the Beretta magazine adapters. I’ve fired test fired with the Glock magazine adapter, and had no issues. I have not yet tested the Beretta adapter. Take your AR and change the upper for a 9mm upper. Change the buffer. Install the adapter. You should be good to go from then on. |
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OP, if I didn't already have an SBR AR, this is what I would get. Subject 2000 gen 3 |
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Originally Posted By Whiskeyballzzz: OP, if I didn't already have an SBR AR, this is what I would get. Subject 2000 gen 3 Fun stuffs. If OP is still working on a carbine his wife can shoot (oooold thread), I suggest teaching her to shoot prone. That way she won't need to support the rifle. If she doesn't like the dirty ground, teach her to move the mass to larger muscle groups with a sling. |
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