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6ARC Barrels/Uppers (Page 2 of 4)
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Originally Posted By doty_soty: . . . . Between that and working my way up and down barrel torque, I’ve gotten most of my ARs down to MOA with just AAC ammo. . . . What's your process for experimenting with barrel nut torque? How much accuracy difference do you see versus just using a mid-range value of 50 ft lbs or so? What do you think is making the difference in accuracy with one torque value versus another? Are you seeing best accuracy cluster around any particular torque values? |
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Originally Posted By cttb: What's your process for experimenting with barrel nut torque? How much accuracy difference do you see versus just using a mid-range value of 50 ft lbs or so? What do you think is making the difference in accuracy with one torque value versus another? Are you seeing best accuracy cluster around any particular torque values? Originally Posted By cttb: Originally Posted By doty_soty: . . . . Between that and working my way up and down barrel torque, I’ve gotten most of my ARs down to MOA with just AAC ammo. . . . What's your process for experimenting with barrel nut torque? How much accuracy difference do you see versus just using a mid-range value of 50 ft lbs or so? What do you think is making the difference in accuracy with one torque value versus another? Are you seeing best accuracy cluster around any particular torque values? Sometimes it doesn’t matter hardly at all, sometimes it matters a ton. It tends to matter more with thin barrels than with thick ones. Thick ones seem to ease in and out their zone with a wide margin of error. Thin barrels can be kinda a roll of the dice and for all I know eventually I just hit a lucky number eventually. I think this is part of why people say thin barrels are less accurate, it’s more that they’re hard to get to shoot to the same level. I’ll start low and work high. Usually just 40-50-60 and pick the winner from a few 5-round groups, but sometimes if I’m still sucking I’ll drop down to 30 or up to 70. If I have lots of spare time sometimes I’ll go in increments of 5 but that’s mostly me being goofy. Either way, a few warm-up rounds to seat everything together before going ‘for record’ is useful, usually the first round or two throw wild no matter what as things fit together. Usually 50 is about right. If I had to pick a single torque value for things that’s where I’d pick. It’s optimal for a bunch, and not far off for most of the rest. Usually thin barrels end up higher, usually low barrels end up lower. But not always. I have a Criterion Core that’s fairly light that needed like 35, and a fat Larue Stealth that ended up the same. Meanwhile I’ve had a Proof Stainless and Predatar that both peaked @ 60 despite one being a pipe and the other being (kinda) light. Usually I’d expect the fat ones to need 40-50, and the thin ones to need closer to 60. If it’s light and a 6.5 or 6arc it may need even more. Keep in mind this is after you’ve already accounted for larger much more noticeable things. The extension is trued and bedded, the muzzle device is only lightly torqued, the gas block is lightly set and backed slightly off the shoulder so as to not contact, etc. And wayyy after things like quality component selection like a good barrel and optic and trigger etc. Now keep in mind I’m saying all this, it doesn’t do a ton. It won’t make a trash rifle a laser. I’ve done this process to a few dozen rifles now (I checked, I currently have 29 finished ARs), and only one it made a few MOA of difference. Usually it just adds like a tenth of an MOA or two tops. Additionally, you’re partly just tuning it for a specific load, when you switch loads it’s probably improved, but what’s optimal probably isn’t wherever it currently is. Luckily I really only ever shoot one load through a given gun so I can get this down in the weeds and not just be chasing my tail around. |
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Originally Posted By doty_soty: Sometimes it doesn’t matter hardly at all, sometimes it matters a ton. It tends to matter more with thin barrels than with thick ones. Thick ones seem to ease in and out their zone with a wide margin of error. Thin barrels can be kinda a roll of the dice and for all I know eventually I just hit a lucky number eventually. I think this is part of why people say thin barrels are less accurate, it’s more that they’re hard to get to shoot to the same level. I’ll start low and work high. Usually just 40-50-60 and pick the winner from a few 5-round groups, but sometimes if I’m still sucking I’ll drop down to 30 or up to 70. If I have lots of spare time sometimes I’ll go in increments of 5 but that’s mostly me being goofy. Either way, a few warm-up rounds to seat everything together before going ‘for record’ is useful, usually the first round or two throw wild no matter what as things fit together. Usually 50 is about right. If I had to pick a single torque value for things that’s where I’d pick. It’s optimal for a bunch, and not far off for most of the rest. Usually thin barrels end up higher, usually low barrels end up lower. But not always. I have a Criterion Core that’s fairly light that needed like 35, and a fat Larue Stealth that ended up the same. Meanwhile I’ve had a Proof Stainless and Predatar that both peaked @ 60 despite one being a pipe and the other being (kinda) light. Usually I’d expect the fat ones to need 40-50, and the thin ones to need closer to 60. If it’s light and a 6.5 or 6arc it may need even more. Keep in mind this is after you’ve already accounted for larger much more noticeable things. The extension is trued and bedded, the muzzle device is only lightly torqued, the gas block is lightly set and backed slightly off the shoulder so as to not contact, etc. And wayyy after things like quality component selection like a good barrel and optic and trigger etc. Now keep in mind I’m saying all this, it doesn’t do a ton. It won’t make a trash rifle a laser. I’ve done this process to a few dozen rifles now (I checked, I currently have 29 finished ARs), and only one it made a few MOA of difference. Usually it just adds like a tenth of an MOA or two tops. Additionally, you’re partly just tuning it for a specific load, when you switch loads it’s probably improved, but what’s optimal probably isn’t wherever it currently is. Luckily I really only ever shoot one load through a given gun so I can get this down in the weeds and not just be chasing my tail around. Originally Posted By doty_soty: Originally Posted By cttb: Originally Posted By doty_soty: . . . . Between that and working my way up and down barrel torque, I’ve gotten most of my ARs down to MOA with just AAC ammo. . . . What's your process for experimenting with barrel nut torque? How much accuracy difference do you see versus just using a mid-range value of 50 ft lbs or so? What do you think is making the difference in accuracy with one torque value versus another? Are you seeing best accuracy cluster around any particular torque values? Sometimes it doesn’t matter hardly at all, sometimes it matters a ton. It tends to matter more with thin barrels than with thick ones. Thick ones seem to ease in and out their zone with a wide margin of error. Thin barrels can be kinda a roll of the dice and for all I know eventually I just hit a lucky number eventually. I think this is part of why people say thin barrels are less accurate, it’s more that they’re hard to get to shoot to the same level. I’ll start low and work high. Usually just 40-50-60 and pick the winner from a few 5-round groups, but sometimes if I’m still sucking I’ll drop down to 30 or up to 70. If I have lots of spare time sometimes I’ll go in increments of 5 but that’s mostly me being goofy. Either way, a few warm-up rounds to seat everything together before going ‘for record’ is useful, usually the first round or two throw wild no matter what as things fit together. Usually 50 is about right. If I had to pick a single torque value for things that’s where I’d pick. It’s optimal for a bunch, and not far off for most of the rest. Usually thin barrels end up higher, usually low barrels end up lower. But not always. I have a Criterion Core that’s fairly light that needed like 35, and a fat Larue Stealth that ended up the same. Meanwhile I’ve had a Proof Stainless and Predatar that both peaked @ 60 despite one being a pipe and the other being (kinda) light. Usually I’d expect the fat ones to need 40-50, and the thin ones to need closer to 60. If it’s light and a 6.5 or 6arc it may need even more. Keep in mind this is after you’ve already accounted for larger much more noticeable things. The extension is trued and bedded, the muzzle device is only lightly torqued, the gas block is lightly set and backed slightly off the shoulder so as to not contact, etc. And wayyy after things like quality component selection like a good barrel and optic and trigger etc. Now keep in mind I’m saying all this, it doesn’t do a ton. It won’t make a trash rifle a laser. I’ve done this process to a few dozen rifles now (I checked, I currently have 29 finished ARs), and only one it made a few MOA of difference. Usually it just adds like a tenth of an MOA or two tops. Additionally, you’re partly just tuning it for a specific load, when you switch loads it’s probably improved, but what’s optimal probably isn’t wherever it currently is. Luckily I really only ever shoot one load through a given gun so I can get this down in the weeds and not just be chasing my tail around. That's fascinating, particularly as it pertains to light barrels. Thank you sharing it. Maximum accuracy is certainly in the details. |
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Originally Posted By VeritatisUnus: I’m interested in a light weight hunting barrel, 18”. Suggestions for this? I would prefer a little higher quality than Faxon or BA. Craddock Bartlein Lilja Proof Craddock RTR Noveske GAPrecision Bartlein Alternately, call Curt at SixSigmaArms and see what he offers in Lilja barrels. He’s who is building my 6ARC Lilja upper (but I didn’t ask for a lightweight profile). |
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Originally Posted By VeritatisUnus: I’m interested in a light weight hunting barrel, 18”. Suggestions for this? I would prefer a little higher quality than Faxon or BA. I haven’t shot mine yet, so huge caveat emptor, but I snagged a fluted V-Seven 6arc barrel that I’m excited to wring out. As mentioned above sometimes light barrels can be a pain in the ass to tune, but I expect it to be a great barrel and if you look them up you’ll hear some glowing reviews. Or you can do the tried and true CF Proof. It’ll be a little heavier and to be honest I’m far from sold on CF barrels, but I’ve been pretty happy with my two CF Grendels. |
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25: Craddock Bartlein Lilja Proof Craddock RTR Noveske GAPrecision Bartlein Alternately, call Curt at SixSigmaArms and see what he offers in Lilja barrels. He’s who is building my 6ARC Lilja upper (but I didn’t ask for a lightweight profile). Those aren’t light weight barrels, but thank you. |
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Originally Posted By Sniper3142: I know this thread is primarily about Barrels and Uppers in 6mm ARC... but, does anyone have input on the Seekins Precision DMR in 6mm ARC? At around $1700 for the complete rifle, it seems almost too good to pass up. I forget who makes their barrels but they always get good reviews. Seekins doesn’t get much attention these days. Seekins used to be a big name in the precision bolt gun world. Bases, rings, etc. they’ve always had good stuff they’re just not trendy anymore. |
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Originally Posted By VeritatisUnus: Those aren’t light weight barrels, but thank you. Originally Posted By VeritatisUnus: Originally Posted By lilMAC25: Craddock Bartlein Lilja Proof Craddock RTR Noveske GAPrecision Bartlein Alternately, call Curt at SixSigmaArms and see what he offers in Lilja barrels. He’s who is building my 6ARC Lilja upper (but I didn’t ask for a lightweight profile). Those aren’t light weight barrels, but thank you. Since they’re custom, there’s probably one or more you could order as LW. |
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25: Since they’re custom, there’s probably one or more you could order as LW. Originally Posted By lilMAC25: Originally Posted By VeritatisUnus: Originally Posted By lilMAC25: Craddock Bartlein Lilja Proof Craddock RTR Noveske GAPrecision Bartlein Alternately, call Curt at SixSigmaArms and see what he offers in Lilja barrels. He’s who is building my 6ARC Lilja upper (but I didn’t ask for a lightweight profile). Those aren’t light weight barrels, but thank you. Since they’re custom, there’s probably one or more you could order as LW. The 6.5G I got from SixSigma, I really only got it because it was a Lilja. But in looking at it it’s really a pretty thin profile. Mine is already bedded in and up and running so I didn’t want to pull it but I asked them and they said it was like 27 oz IIRC (16”). |
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25: I’m pretty set on a Lilja Barrel right now. One company offers them (SixSigmaArms out of Minn). Called and had a long conversation. I believe I’m just gonna let them do the work of assembly. Price isn’t prohibitive at all and they’ll literally go as far as to fart around with barrel nut torque to improve accuracy (for the cost a box of the ammo). @lilMAC25 What length barrel are you looking at? The website doesn't state the specs, but do you happen to know the gas system length for the 14.5 and 16 inch barrels? Edit: I re-read it and it said both are offered in rifle length gas system, but there are different barrel lengths mentioned. I'll try emailing them my questions. |
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Originally Posted By WTFShane: @lilMAC25 What length barrel are you looking at? The website doesn't state the specs, but do you happen to know the gas system length for the 14.5 and 16 inch barrels? Originally Posted By WTFShane: Originally Posted By lilMAC25: I’m pretty set on a Lilja Barrel right now. One company offers them (SixSigmaArms out of Minn). Called and had a long conversation. I believe I’m just gonna let them do the work of assembly. Price isn’t prohibitive at all and they’ll literally go as far as to fart around with barrel nut torque to improve accuracy (for the cost a box of the ammo). @lilMAC25 What length barrel are you looking at? The website doesn't state the specs, but do you happen to know the gas system length for the 14.5 and 16 inch barrels? I ordered a 14.5” barrel because it will be suppressed 100% of the time. I don’t know gas lengths (I’m thinking 14.5” is intermediate, but that’s just a guess). I’ve had issues reaching the company lately (I know the owners son has some health problems). I intend to try to contact him tomorrow. |
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25: I ordered a 14.5” barrel because it will be suppressed 100% of the time. I don’t know gas lengths (I’m thinking 14.5” is intermediate, but that’s just a guess). I’ve had issues reaching the company lately (I know the owners son has some health problems). I intend to try to contact him tomorrow. @lilMAC25 I emailed them and no response, but saw it stated rifle length on the product page. I'm really interested in the 16 inch barrel that says in stock, but worried since you said you ordered and haven't heard from them. Hope everything turns out for the best. |
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Originally Posted By WTFShane: @lilMAC25 I emailed them and no response, but saw it stated rifle length on the product page. I'm really interested in the 16 inch barrel that says in stock, but worried since you said you ordered and haven't heard from them. Hope everything turns out for the best. Originally Posted By WTFShane: Originally Posted By lilMAC25: I ordered a 14.5” barrel because it will be suppressed 100% of the time. I don’t know gas lengths (I’m thinking 14.5” is intermediate, but that’s just a guess). I’ve had issues reaching the company lately (I know the owners son has some health problems). I intend to try to contact him tomorrow. @lilMAC25 I emailed them and no response, but saw it stated rifle length on the product page. I'm really interested in the 16 inch barrel that says in stock, but worried since you said you ordered and haven't heard from them. Hope everything turns out for the best. I wrote them twice. Once with a general question, and once when I had a problem with their product. They answered my question. When I told them I had a problem though, crickets. That says a lot about them. |
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Originally Posted By WTFShane: @lilMAC25 I emailed them and no response, but saw it stated rifle length on the product page. I'm really interested in the 16 inch barrel that says in stock, but worried since you said you ordered and haven't heard from them. Hope everything turns out for the best. Originally Posted By WTFShane: Originally Posted By lilMAC25: I ordered a 14.5” barrel because it will be suppressed 100% of the time. I don’t know gas lengths (I’m thinking 14.5” is intermediate, but that’s just a guess). I’ve had issues reaching the company lately (I know the owners son has some health problems). I intend to try to contact him tomorrow. @lilMAC25 I emailed them and no response, but saw it stated rifle length on the product page. I'm really interested in the 16 inch barrel that says in stock, but worried since you said you ordered and haven't heard from them. Hope everything turns out for the best. I placed an order, but my card was never charged… I have no clue what’s going on. He’s super nice and we’ve had long convos about guns and stuff… just haven’t been able to reach him for months. Shame. |
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Originally Posted By doty_soty: I forget who makes their barrels but they always get good reviews. Seekins doesn’t get much attention these days. Seekins used to be a big name in the precision bolt gun world. Bases, rings, etc. they’ve always had good stuff they’re just not trendy anymore. They are wildly popular and better than ever. |
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Originally Posted By WTFShane: Thanks for the insight. I'll look elsewhere. @WTFShane I spoke to Curt today. Didn’t really ask about why the delay, but he was apologetic and he did tell me that some parts (not barrel or bolt) were on backorder (he’s a Griffin dealer and I was just gonna let him build it with Griffin parts aside from barrel and bolt) and that he’s been trying to acquire those back ordered parts. This included Griffin stripped uppers and charging handles. I told him order whatever parts in whatever color are available and use his “reference” parts (usually AeroPrecision) for the rest. He’s claiming I should hear from him Monday or so for actual cost of build and then 2 weeks to build and test fire. Very VERY nice guy and as I said, I have NOT been charged for anything yet. It’s just sometimes hard to reach him. If you’re just buying the barrel and intend to build it yourself, I’d say you’re probably GTG. If you’re wanting him to build it, you might have a 3 month or so wait like me. Best of luck! |
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25: If you’re just buying the barrel and intend to build it yourself, I’d say you’re probably GTG. If you’re wanting him to build it, you might have a 3 month or so wait like me. Best of luck! Thanks for the help. I ended up looking up 18 inch barrels and bought parts from Centurion Arms. |
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Originally Posted By x248716x: what would be the best twist rate for 105gr, 108gr? 1:7T? 1:7.5T? or, "corporate says they're the same"? I really doubt it’ll make a real world difference. Unless you’re having a custom one spun up and are just selecting this option from a pull-down box, I’d worry way more about the blank and finisher of the barrel. |
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Originally Posted By Mister_H: 1:7.5 Originally Posted By doty_soty: I really doubt it’ll make a real world difference. Unless you’re having a custom one spun up and are just selecting this option from a pull-down box, I’d worry way more about the blank and finisher of the barrel. thanks! I have several that are 1:7T, but noticed that option in the pull-down box when window-shopping. |
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I have a 12.5 monster, a 14.5 CF Proof, and an 18” SS Proof. I’m a big fan of all 3 lengths. I tried different BCGs and now use only the ones from CMC. That fixed feeding issues with different magazine manufacturers. CMC BCG   
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Originally Posted By McCarron: I have a 12.5 monster, a 14.5 CF Proof, and an 18” SS Proof. I’m a big fan of all 3 lengths. I tried different BCGs and now use only the ones from CMC. That fixed feeding issues with different magazine manufacturers. https://i.imgur.com/3iRZdtz.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/FSAVtpu.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/ZOLYmDI.jpeg Link? Im gonna use a Griffin BCG made for suppressing ARs. I figure if it doesn’t work, I’ll just switch it to my 300 BLK. |
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Originally Posted By McCarron: I have a 12.5 monster, a 14.5 CF Proof, and an 18” SS Proof. I’m a big fan of all 3 lengths. I tried different BCGs and now use only the ones from CMC. That fixed feeding issues with different magazine manufacturers. CMC BCG https://i.imgur.com/3iRZdtz.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/FSAVtpu.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/ZOLYmDI.jpeg @McCarron Which magazines would you recommend? |
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@WTFShane The ASC magazines are cheap and plentiful. I sent two back to the manufacturer because of bad welds and they replaced them in a week. The G mags are great but expensive. Though the duramags worked well, I just don’t like the funky geometry. I now run all three guns with non adjustable G gas blocks and CMC BCGs. There were some initial feeding issues but with full gas and the CMC BCGs all three run perfectly. I’ve also used H, H2, and Viltor buffers. I don’t really notice that much of a difference while shooting them. |
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Originally Posted By McCarron: @WTFShane The ASC magazines are cheap and plentiful. I sent two back to the manufacturer because of bad welds and they replaced them in a week. The G mags are great but expensive. Though the duramags worked well, I just don’t like the funky geometry. I now run all three guns with non adjustable G gas blocks and CMC BCGs. There were some initial feeding issues but with full gas and the CMC BCGs all three run perfectly. I’ve also used H, H2, and Viltor buffers. I don’t really notice that much of a difference while shooting them. Thanks. I've just recently started looking into the 6mm ARC and been hearing good reviews about the Geissele mags, but looks like they're not available at the moment. I ended up picking up pairs of DuraMag 10rd, Amend2 10rd, and some AR Stoner 15rd mags to try out. |
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Originally Posted By WTFShane: I just finished building and setting up an upper with a Centurion Arms 18 inch 6mm ARC barrel. Looking forward to this weekend! https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54500593164_874db639e0_b.jpg Good looking rifle! What unconstitutional restrictions are you under in Hawaii? |
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Originally Posted By WTFShane: Thanks. I've just recently started looking into the 6mm ARC and been hearing good reviews about the Geissele mags, but looks like they're not available at the moment. I ended up picking up pairs of DuraMag 10rd, Amend2 10rd, and some AR Stoner 15rd mags to try out. @WTFShane Eurooptic and Rooftop have Geissele mags in stock. |
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Originally Posted By cdholmes: @WTFShane Eurooptic and Rooftop have Geissele mags in stock. Originally Posted By cdholmes: Originally Posted By WTFShane: Thanks. I've just recently started looking into the 6mm ARC and been hearing good reviews about the Geissele mags, but looks like they're not available at the moment. I ended up picking up pairs of DuraMag 10rd, Amend2 10rd, and some AR Stoner 15rd mags to try out. @WTFShane Eurooptic and Rooftop have Geissele mags in stock. Yep got a 20rd from Europtic on the way now |
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Originally Posted By WTFShane: I can't have the fun stuff like shorties, suppressors, and full-auto. Handgun magazines are restricted to 10rd. Originally Posted By WTFShane: Originally Posted By lilMAC25: Good looking rifle! What unconstitutional restrictions are you under in Hawaii? I can't have the fun stuff like shorties, suppressors, and full-auto. Handgun magazines are restricted to 10rd. Super gay. Can you get around SBR laws with a brace? ETA: an 18” barrel would be of decent benefit on a 6ARC. |
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25: Super gay. Can you get around SBR laws with a brace? ETA: an 18” barrel would be of decent benefit on a 6ARC. Trying not to stray too off topic here. It's possible, but needs other modifications to comply with Hawaii's assault pistol ban. I forgot about that one because its ridiculous. |
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Originally Posted By doty_soty: Yep got a 20rd from Europtic on the way now Originally Posted By doty_soty: Originally Posted By cdholmes: Originally Posted By WTFShane: Thanks. I've just recently started looking into the 6mm ARC and been hearing good reviews about the Geissele mags, but looks like they're not available at the moment. I ended up picking up pairs of DuraMag 10rd, Amend2 10rd, and some AR Stoner 15rd mags to try out. @WTFShane Eurooptic and Rooftop have Geissele mags in stock. Yep got a 20rd from Europtic on the way now You might have gotten the last one.  ETA: in stock! https://www.eurooptic.com/geissele-icm-20rd-stainless-steel-blk-magazine-05-3232 |
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Originally Posted By WTFShane: I just finished building and setting up an upper with a Centurion Arms 18 inch 6mm ARC barrel. Looking forward to this weekend! https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54500593164_874db639e0_b.jpg @WTFShane are you able to shoot that cool-looking 6ARC at "greater distances" in lovely Hawaii? |
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Originally Posted By rpoL98: @WTFShane are you able to shoot that cool-looking 6ARC at "greater distances" in lovely Hawaii? I am no longer a member, but the Schofield Rod & Gun Club sometimes has access to the sniper/machine gun range on Schofield Barracks. I heard MCBH K-Bay has open shoots every now and then, but I haven't looked into it. Other than that, it's private land and I don't have connections. |
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25: You might have gotten the last one. ETA: in stock! https://www.eurooptic.com/geissele-icm-20rd-stainless-steel-blk-magazine-05-3232 Originally Posted By lilMAC25: Originally Posted By doty_soty: Originally Posted By cdholmes: Originally Posted By WTFShane: Thanks. I've just recently started looking into the 6mm ARC and been hearing good reviews about the Geissele mags, but looks like they're not available at the moment. I ended up picking up pairs of DuraMag 10rd, Amend2 10rd, and some AR Stoner 15rd mags to try out. @WTFShane Eurooptic and Rooftop have Geissele mags in stock. Yep got a 20rd from Europtic on the way now You might have gotten the last one. ETA: in stock! https://www.eurooptic.com/geissele-icm-20rd-stainless-steel-blk-magazine-05-3232 @doty_soty Thanks for posting that. The above link has 20rd for $45+s/h/tax |
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25: Now I want to buy a 16” or 18” barrel and do a Mk12 ModH myself. I initially was looking at 16 inch barrels because I wanted to rebarrel my Holland upper to shoot 6ARC. What options did you look at? Shaw makes a 16 inch with mid gas system. You'll need to get a step milled for the suppressor collar. Craddock and Six Sigma Arms makes 16 inch with a rifle length gas system. If wanting this route and proper style reflex suppressor, Allegheny Arms tapered gas block and AEM4-65 will sort of get the look. |
6ARC Barrels/Uppers (Page 2 of 4)
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