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6.8SPC or 6.5G? Which one should I buy? (Page 7 of 14)
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"...With the 6.8S, to get close to the very good 6.5mm 123 gr. Sierra match king, it needs at least a 130 gr. bullet, in fact Sierra makes a 6.8mm 130 gr. match king which I'd like to see tested in the 6.8S, perhaps someday...."
Pat, I have loaded the 135 grain SMK in the 6.8. The bullet is so long, that, even when loaded to 2.30", the ogive taper starts right at the case mouth, and this makes it difficult to avoid runout. This bullet would need to go beyond 2.31" to be viable, but that won't fit an AR mag. I can say this.....once I have my bolt gun built, I will load these out to 2.4 or 2.45" and that should be quite interesting. Shorter 130's, like the Sierra Game King, still don't really increase performance. The 6.8 does not need heavy for (it's ) caliber bullets to perform. There is no free lunch, though. I still will be pushing for higher BC bullets for the 6.8. When they are all copper, they can be a bit longer, thus higher BC, and still have lighter weights, so muzzle velocity will be high. Barnes agreed with us (thanks to Bill Wilson finally getting to them !) and the 100 TTSX in .277 is going to happen. |
"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
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Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:But, my contention simply is that 200-400 FPS difference in velocity (when both guns are restricted to 11 or 12" barrels) is necessary to make the monoliths perform on such thick-skinned, thick boned, animals like feral hogs, at the ranges most of us encounter them. If a 12" Grendel shoots the 100 TTSX at 2400 (someone correct me if my estimation is way off) , it only has to go about 100-150 yards before it might not expand, versus that same barrel in 6.8 shooting it at, say 2700 (and I think I could probably get it going 2750). Thus, I think the short barrel argument is valid especially with bullets that demand expansion velocities so near the 2000 FPS mark. The expected muzzle velocity of a 100 gr. bullet from the 6.5G with a 19.5 inch barrel would be about 2700 fps. The new Barnes 6.5mm 100 gr. TTSX is a boat tailed bullet, but I've not seen their G1 BC for it, I'd expect it to be better than a 100 gr. flat base 6.8mm bullet of otherwise similar construction, but that hasn't been verified so it's just a guess. If the 6.5mm Barnes bullet requires a minimum of 1800 fps to expand, then it's good past 250 yards from a 14.5 inch barrel.
Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
Yep, we're all going to see some good stuff this year.
"...With the 6.8S, to get close to the very good 6.5mm 123 gr. Sierra match king, it needs at least a 130 gr. bullet, in fact Sierra makes a 6.8mm 130 gr. match king which I'd like to see tested in the 6.8S, perhaps someday...." Pat, I have loaded the 135 grain SMK in the 6.8. The bullet is so long, that, even when loaded to 2.30", the ogive taper starts right at the case mouth, and this makes it difficult to avoid runout. This bullet would need to go beyond 2.31" to be viable, but that won't fit an AR mag. I can say this.....once I have my bolt gun built, I will load these out to 2.4 or 2.45" and that should be quite interesting. Shorter 130's, like the Sierra Game King, still don't really increase performance. The 6.8 does not need heavy for (it's ) caliber bullets to perform. There is no free lunch, though. I still will be pushing for higher BC bullets for the 6.8. When they are all copper, they can be a bit longer, thus higher BC, and still have lighter weights, so muzzle velocity will be high. Barnes agreed with us (thanks to Bill Wilson finally getting to them !) and the 100 TTSX in .277 is going to happen. 
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AR Variants Mod and Juris Doctor (in training)!
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I think 2010 will be a good year for all things AR Variants, regardless of which camp you fall into. There should be lots of excitement for the 6.8 SPC and the 6.5 next week. Stay tuned, I will have my annual AR Variants SHOT SHOW photo thread going, starting Monday 1/18/2010.
And Yes, I will have all the good 6.X goodies in there. |
When there's lead in the air... there's hope in the heart.
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Oh, how the ghost of you clings...
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Oh, how the ghost of you clings...
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Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
Bill, Check this thing out. You definitely would not want to go hand to hoof with it. It could potentially kill a human, if they don't have a gun. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s233/dkred5854/DSCF3002-3.jpg I have never seen a tougher animal (in Texas) than the feral hog. I am a physician by training, so I am well aware of the anatomy and physiology of humans and their ability to sustain trauma. I can give you equally shocking stories of people who simply tripped over a foot stool, hitting their head on the kitchen table, and died of a massive cerebral hemorrhage 12 hours later.....plus many others, exemplifying humans as perhaps "not so tough." I have shot many hundreds of hogs and hundreds of deer in my 30+ years of hunting and guiding. I think we are all saying alot of the same things. I said and agree with you guys that the 100 grain TTSX, if shot from both guns, would vary more by angle or placement than much else, unless you had MV much closer to the expansion threshold. Then, you would see different terminal effect. If your friend shoots soft point jacketed bullets, I am not surprised that he kills deer with that. I am not so sure how those same loads would perform on something like the Goliath in the pic, from 200 yards, with that soft point, fired from a 10.5" Grendel. Actually, I would like to find out 
But, my contention simply is that 200-400 FPS difference in velocity (when both guns are restricted to 11 or 12" barrels) is necessary to make the monoliths perform on such thick-skinned, thick boned, animals like feral hogs, at the ranges most of us encounter them. If a 12" Grendel shoots the 100 TTSX at 2400 (someone correct me if my estimation is way off) , it only has to go about 100-150 yards before it might not expand, versus that same barrel in 6.8 shooting it at, say 2700 (and I think I could probably get it going 2750). Thus, I think the short barrel argument is valid especially with bullets that demand expansion velocities so near the 2000 FPS mark. 10-4 on not wanting to go tooth and nail with one! And I understand your point! We share a profession, I've spent the last 15 years in ERs, Urgent Cares, and Internal and General Practice, though I am a PA-C. And I agree, humans sometimes fall down and go boom, and never wake up. So do elephants. There have been a fair number poached with .22's as I understand it. My friends preferred bullet is actually the Nosler BT, I believe. I’ve heard the horror stories of BT’s “blowing up” on animals, but I think that may be a place where the Grendels reasonable velocities actually are at an advantage, because I haven’t heard of it happening with them. I’m shooting the Barnes 6.5 110 grain bullet at 2700+ from my 19” and the 100 grain Nosler at 2800+. I would expect to get around 2500-2600 for a Barnes 100 grain out of the 12 inch barrel, but powder selection will be critical for that short barrel. Most Grendel loads are with somewhat slower powders than what the 6.8 guys are getting, but with the lighter for caliber bullets, I think faster powders will become more common. However, the 6.5 bullet will lose less, since it will be a higher BC bullet. I doubt that the difference will be much, just like it isn’t real significant in the longer barrels. I may, however, be proven wrong! Isnt it great to have a choice, though! Bill |
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Originally Posted By bwaites:10-4 on not wanting to go tooth and nail with one! And I understand your point!
I guess while we're in the confessional I should take my turn. I'm an OR nurse, specializing in vascular, cardio-thoracic, and orthopedic surgery. I am retired now, for three years, and am a gentleman farmer these days. You don't forget those anatomy lessons, though, we had an all RN staff so we scrubbed and circulated cases.
We share a profession, I've spent the last 15 years in ERs, Urgent Cares, and Internal and General Practice, though I am a PA-C. And I agree, humans sometimes fall down and go boom, and never wake up. So do elephants. There have been a fair number poached with .22's as I understand it.
I have the 110 Barnes for testing from my 16 inch barrel (a chrome lined Sabre Defense), I'm anticipating between 2500-2600 fps with that bullet and reasonable handloads.
My friends preferred bullet is actually the Nosler BT, I believe. I’ve heard the horror stories of BT’s “blowing up” on animals, but I think that may be a place where the Grendels reasonable velocities actually are at an advantage, because I haven’t heard of it happening with them. I’m shooting the Barnes 6.5 110 grain bullet at 2700+ from my 19” and the 100 grain Nosler at 2800+. I would expect to get around 2500-2600 for a Barnes 100 grain out of the 12 inch barrel, but powder selection will be critical for that short barrel. Most Grendel loads are with somewhat slower powders than what the 6.8 guys are getting, but with the lighter for caliber bullets, I think faster powders will become more common. However, the 6.5 bullet will lose less, since it will be a higher BC bullet. I doubt that the difference will be much, just like it isn’t real significant in the longer barrels. I may, however, be proven wrong! Isnt it great to have a choice, though! Bill Edit: Looks like Hornady has a new 6.5mm lead-free bullet, the GMX. A plastic tipped 120 gr. ought to be pretty interesting for penetration and expansion, not to mention giving Barnes a run for its money. Isn't competition grand? |
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Originally Posted By Pat_H:
Originally Posted By bwaites:10-4 on not wanting to go tooth and nail with one! And I understand your point!
I guess while we're in the confessional I should take my turn. I'm an OR nurse, specializing in vascular, cardio-thoracic, and orthopedic surgery. I am retired now, for three years, and am a gentleman farmer these days. You don't forget those anatomy lessons, though, we had an all RN staff so we scrubbed and circulated cases.
We share a profession, I've spent the last 15 years in ERs, Urgent Cares, and Internal and General Practice, though I am a PA-C. And I agree, humans sometimes fall down and go boom, and never wake up. So do elephants. There have been a fair number poached with .22's as I understand it.
I have the 110 Barnes for testing from my 16 inch barrel (a chrome lined Sabre Defense), I'm anticipating between 2500-2600 fps with that bullet and reasonable handloads.
My friends preferred bullet is actually the Nosler BT, I believe. I’ve heard the horror stories of BT’s “blowing up” on animals, but I think that may be a place where the Grendels reasonable velocities actually are at an advantage, because I haven’t heard of it happening with them. I’m shooting the Barnes 6.5 110 grain bullet at 2700+ from my 19” and the 100 grain Nosler at 2800+. I would expect to get around 2500-2600 for a Barnes 100 grain out of the 12 inch barrel, but powder selection will be critical for that short barrel. Most Grendel loads are with somewhat slower powders than what the 6.8 guys are getting, but with the lighter for caliber bullets, I think faster powders will become more common. However, the 6.5 bullet will lose less, since it will be a higher BC bullet. I doubt that the difference will be much, just like it isn’t real significant in the longer barrels. I may, however, be proven wrong! Isnt it great to have a choice, though! Bill This is serendipitous, fellas. If you two have any desire to do a night vision hog hunt, you should come to the ranch, as I suspect we could tell many "war-stories," plus, we'll do a friendly Grendel versus SPC hog shoot-off! Seriously though,I would like to have you guys come to the ranch and shoot some hogs with those things. I want to see them in action. |
"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
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Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:This is serendipitous, fellas. If you two have any desire to do a night vision hog hunt, you should come to the ranch, as I suspect we could tell many "war-stories," plus, we'll do a friendly Grendel versus SPC hog shoot-off!
I'll take you up on that at some point. I have a couple additional things I want to do for the rifle. It needs a rail handguard so I can mount the weapon light. I don't have NV for it, yet, but that's on the list.
Seriously though,I would like to have you guys come to the ranch and shoot some hogs with those things. I want to see them in action. The last time I was in Texas was 1991, Fort Hood in fact, my third visit to that wonderful location. I'll save those stories for another time and forum. I have some ammo with 130 gr. Swift Scirrocco II's loaded on the way, going to see how those shoot next week hopefully. |
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Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
This is serendipitous, fellas. If you two have any desire to do a night vision hog hunt, you should come to the ranch, as I suspect we could tell many "war-stories," plus, we'll do a friendly Grendel versus SPC hog shoot-off! Seriously though,I would like to have you guys come to the ranch and shoot some hogs with those things. I want to see them in action. This is a weird forum, when I try to quote and write, I get this stupid one character jump up and down line. Since it happens both at home and at work, I suspect it is the forum software, not my computers. I would love to take you up on that! I don't have NV equipment, as the only thing I hunt are coyotes, and Washington doesn't allow their use, but it would be fun. I've got committments all this year, so it would have to be in 2011, unless something changes this fall. It would be nice to get a shorter barreled version of the Grendel, with a suppressor for the hunt. I'll have to see what I can come up with, but I hear the suppressor apps take a while, and because Washington has such stupid rules, I can't practice with it! (You can OWN a suppressor in Washington, you just can't shoot with it! Thus I haven't bothered so far.) Bill |
Here's the basic data on the new Hornady 6.5mm 120 gr. GMX bullet on the left or top, the same bullet design in 6.8 on the right or bottom.
 
I'll see if I can scare up some velocity numbers for those bullet weights with which we can generate some expected performance. |
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As someone one the fence between 6.5 and 6.8, I have a question that hasn't been answered.
Both 6.X forums have magazine problem stickies. What's the Dud-To-Good ratio for current factory mags? Any mag that needs "tweeking" to work reliably shall be considered a dud for this question. |
Guns aren't the answer. Preemptive poisoning of your enemies is the answer.
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Originally Posted By BulletBait:
I have a number of magazines for my 6.5G, but have only fired the rifle with two of them. Both are recent manufacture C Products, 25 round, stainless steel bodies. They functioned flawlessly.
As someone one the fence between 6.5 and 6.8, I have a question that hasn't been answered. Both 6.X forums have magazine problem stickies. What's the Dud-To-Good ratio for current factory mags? Any mag that needs "tweeking" to work reliably shall be considered a dud for this question. |
Pat
http://public.fotki.com/fastpat/self_defense/ar-rifles-1/ar-rifles/ar-15-6-5grendel.html
http://public.fotki.com/fastpat/self_defense/ar-rifles-1/ar-rifles/ar-15-6-5grendel.html
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"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
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Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
My "dud to good" ratio with PRI mags has been 90-10 good to dud. I had two mags out of 23 that needed lip tweaking. I have actually owned over 30, but some of those I sold to buddies getting into 6.8, and they have had no problems whatsoever. A couple of clients use C=products and say they are having no problems. I have head many a story of these needing tweaking, but it seems that the problem has gotten much better over the last year. Trust me, we will have a polymer 6.8 mag in the next year. ETA: with the addition of the 100 grain Tipped TSX for the 6.5 Grendel, and the 95 TTSX for the 6.8, things are getting so close for each that the distinction seems to be almost non-existent. The 100 TTSX will give the Grendel more MV overall, and some decent velocity with shorter barrels and the 95 TTSX gives the 6.8 a bullet with better BC that can still expand violently and hold all its weight, up to 400 yards. Once we all got over the "heavier bullets are always better" dogma, things have really gotten interesting. The AR platform will never be the same, ever again. |
"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
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Originally Posted By BulletBait:
As someone one the fence between 6.5 and 6.8, I have a question that hasn't been answered. Both 6.X forums have magazine problem stickies. What's the Dud-To-Good ratio for current factory mags? Any mag that needs "tweeking" to work reliably shall be considered a dud for this question. The mag problems(at least with the 6.5) have been attributed to bad followers. Cproducts will replace any follower(or mag). The "bad" followers have shorter anti-tilt legs that were allowing tilt. |
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Originally Posted By BulletBait:
. What's the Dud-To-Good ratio for current factory mags? Any mag that needs "tweeking" to work reliably shall be considered a dud for this question. I have 11 6.8 magazines. 5 are 17 round C-Products they have all worked perfectly. 6 are PRI magazines. A few 25 rounders, mostly the 17 round magazines. I have a few from an early batch where 2 of them needed feed lip tweaks to get running 100% (note at the time I was running with a rifle w/o M4 extended feed ramps so the tweaks might not have been needed). The rest of my PRI magazines (including all the 25 rounders) are from newer batches and have run 100% |
'98 Jeep XJ Owner
6.8 > 6.5
6.8 > 6.5
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As a Grendel owner, I guess I'll weigh in.
For the folks who have brought up the availability of 6.5 ammo and brass, Hornady is coming "online" with both within the next 4-6 weeks (At least that's when MidwayUSA is predicting they will have it in stock. The main advantage I see for the 6.5 is the wide array of bullets available for it. As the 6.8 popularity continues to increase, that gap is rapidly closing. Is one "better" that the other? Guess that depends on what you're wanting to do with it. Since my intended use was LR "precision" (Out to 500 yards) competition, I chose the one with the largest selection of "Match Grade" bullets. Paul |
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Originally Posted By knitepoet:
As a Grendel owner, I guess I'll weigh in. For the folks who have brought up the availability of 6.5 ammo and brass, Hornady is coming "online" with both within the next 4-6 weeks (At least that's when MidwayUSA is predicting they will have it in stock. The main advantage I see for the 6.5 is the wide array of bullets available for it. As the 6.8 popularity continues to increase, that gap is rapidly closing. Is one "better" that the other? Guess that depends on what you're wanting to do with it. Since my intended use was LR "precision" (Out to 500 yards) competition, I chose the one with the largest selection of "Match Grade" bullets. Paul No denying the match 6.5 bullets are absolutely top notch! Now if we can just get someone to make similar .277 bullets...
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Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
No denying the match 6.5 bullets are absolutely top notch! Now if we can just get someone to make similar .277 bullets... Well, a friend with a new 6.8 is having IMPRESSIVE results with Hornady Match ammo in it. He's getting ~0.5MOA from a still "new" barrel. Once it's broken in/settles I am expecting it to do even better. Paul |
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Whats the story, and which is more available? its not fun having a rifle in a cartridge thats a pain in the ass to hunt down.
What does the new gen of 6.8 SPC TWO compare to the 6.5? are they the same? comparable? is the 6.8 spc2 better than the 6.5? or is the 6.5 still realistically superior to the 6.8? is the 5.56 still more accurate than the 6.8 SPC TWO? what do they do out of 14.5,16,18 and 20 barrels? from 100, to 1,000 yards. Again i am asking about the 6.8 SPC TWO and the 6.5 Grendel and 5.56 |
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Originally Posted By MaverickCowboy:
Whats the story, and which is more available? its not fun having a rifle in a cartridge thats a pain in the ass to hunt down. What does the new gen of 6.8 SPC TWO compare to the 6.5? are they the same? comparable? is the 6.8 spc2 better than the 6.5? or is the 6.5 still realistically superior to the 6.8? is the 5.56 still more accurate than the 6.8 SPC TWO? what do they do out of 14.5,16,18 and 20 barrels? from 100, to 1,000 yards. Again i am asking about the 6.8 SPC TWO and the 6.5 Grendel and 5.56 Which one is more accurate is a bit too broad of a question to honestly answer. There are higher ballistic coefficients on the 6.5 and .224 match bullets when compared to the 6.8 bullets, but that's only part of the equation. You have to take into account velocity and mass of the projectile as well. I can shoot sub MOA out to 200 yards with the 90gr Speer TNT bullet for the 6.8 SPC (matter of fact, the 200 yard groups are still under one inch in ten shots on a calm day), but add in some wind and I'm sure they'll open up a bit. I also can hit a 12" circular steel plate with both the 110gr Sierra Prohunter and the 110gr Hornady OTM at 400 yards with every single shot once I have the wind doped (the area is relatively protected though, so it makes shooting that distance kinda easy). The Prohunter bullet is surprisingly accurate out at those ranges, which is a good thing as it is not an expensive purchase item! I'm seriously considering trying some 130gr Hawk bullets for hunting purposes (bear and hogs, mostly). My 6.5G and 5.56/.223 rifles will also do similar work at those ranges, with the edge probably going to the 6.5G at 400 yards for actual group size. But hitting a target at that range 10 out of 10 times five times in a row with either caliber (6.8SPC or 6.5G)is not a problem for me... |
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Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
Originally Posted By MaverickCowboy:
Whats the story, and which is more available? its not fun having a rifle in a cartridge thats a pain in the ass to hunt down. What does the new gen of 6.8 SPC TWO compare to the 6.5? are they the same? comparable? is the 6.8 spc2 better than the 6.5? or is the 6.5 still realistically superior to the 6.8? is the 5.56 still more accurate than the 6.8 SPC TWO? what do they do out of 14.5,16,18 and 20 barrels? from 100, to 1,000 yards. Again i am asking about the 6.8 SPC TWO and the 6.5 Grendel and 5.56 Which one is more accurate is a bit too broad of a question to honestly answer. There are higher ballistic coefficients on the 6.5 and .224 match bullets when compared to the 6.8 bullets, but that's only part of the equation. You have to take into account velocity and mass of the projectile as well. I can shoot sub MOA out to 200 yards with the 90gr Speer TNT bullet for the 6.8 SPC (matter of fact, the 200 yard groups are still under one inch in ten shots on a calm day), but add in some wind and I'm sure they'll open up a bit. I also can hit a 12" circular steel plate with both the 110gr Sierra Prohunter and the 110gr Hornady OTM at 400 yards with every single shot once I have the wind doped (the area is relatively protected though, so it makes shooting that distance kinda easy). The Prohunter bullet is surprisingly accurate out at those ranges, which is a good thing as it is not an expensive purchase item! I'm seriously considering trying some 130gr Hawk bullets for hunting purposes (bear and hogs, mostly). My 6.5G and 5.56/.223 rifles will also do similar work at those ranges, with the edge probably going to the 6.5G at 400 yards for actual group size. But hitting a target at that range 10 out of 10 times five times in a row with either caliber (6.8SPC or 6.5G)is not a problem for me... so what your saying is, the 6.8 is less accurate than the 5.56 and 6.5 out at 400 yards? |
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Originally Posted By MaverickCowboy:
Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
Originally Posted By MaverickCowboy:
Whats the story, and which is more available? its not fun having a rifle in a cartridge thats a pain in the ass to hunt down. What does the new gen of 6.8 SPC TWO compare to the 6.5? are they the same? comparable? is the 6.8 spc2 better than the 6.5? or is the 6.5 still realistically superior to the 6.8? is the 5.56 still more accurate than the 6.8 SPC TWO? what do they do out of 14.5,16,18 and 20 barrels? from 100, to 1,000 yards. Again i am asking about the 6.8 SPC TWO and the 6.5 Grendel and 5.56 Which one is more accurate is a bit too broad of a question to honestly answer. There are higher ballistic coefficients on the 6.5 and .224 match bullets when compared to the 6.8 bullets, but that's only part of the equation. You have to take into account velocity and mass of the projectile as well. I can shoot sub MOA out to 200 yards with the 90gr Speer TNT bullet for the 6.8 SPC (matter of fact, the 200 yard groups are still under one inch in ten shots on a calm day), but add in some wind and I'm sure they'll open up a bit. I also can hit a 12" circular steel plate with both the 110gr Sierra Prohunter and the 110gr Hornady OTM at 400 yards with every single shot once I have the wind doped (the area is relatively protected though, so it makes shooting that distance kinda easy). The Prohunter bullet is surprisingly accurate out at those ranges, which is a good thing as it is not an expensive purchase item! I'm seriously considering trying some 130gr Hawk bullets for hunting purposes (bear and hogs, mostly). My 6.5G and 5.56/.223 rifles will also do similar work at those ranges, with the edge probably going to the 6.5G at 400 yards for actual group size. But hitting a target at that range 10 out of 10 times five times in a row with either caliber (6.8SPC or 6.5G)is not a problem for me... so what your saying is, the 6.8 is less accurate than the 5.56 and 6.5 out at 400 yards? No, that's not what I am saying at all. I'm saying the 6.5G will have an edge at mid ranges and longer due to the better BC bullets currently available. There are match type bullets for the 6.8 currently in production and in planning that will completely equal the footing, IMHO. The 5.56 is actually not as good as the 6.8 SPC at distance (again, IMHO) due to the bullet weight difference and tendency of the .224 bullets to be blown around by the wind a bit more (we're talking specifically about bullets that can fit in the magazine and can be fired, not single loaded type rounds)... Match bullets for the 6.8 and 5.56 are similar in BC, and the 6.8 typically exceeds the velocity of those 5.56 bullets... |
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Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
Originally Posted By MaverickCowboy:
Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
Originally Posted By MaverickCowboy:
Whats the story, and which is more available? its not fun having a rifle in a cartridge thats a pain in the ass to hunt down. What does the new gen of 6.8 SPC TWO compare to the 6.5? are they the same? comparable? is the 6.8 spc2 better than the 6.5? or is the 6.5 still realistically superior to the 6.8? is the 5.56 still more accurate than the 6.8 SPC TWO? what do they do out of 14.5,16,18 and 20 barrels? from 100, to 1,000 yards. Again i am asking about the 6.8 SPC TWO and the 6.5 Grendel and 5.56 Which one is more accurate is a bit too broad of a question to honestly answer. There are higher ballistic coefficients on the 6.5 and .224 match bullets when compared to the 6.8 bullets, but that's only part of the equation. You have to take into account velocity and mass of the projectile as well. I can shoot sub MOA out to 200 yards with the 90gr Speer TNT bullet for the 6.8 SPC (matter of fact, the 200 yard groups are still under one inch in ten shots on a calm day), but add in some wind and I'm sure they'll open up a bit. I also can hit a 12" circular steel plate with both the 110gr Sierra Prohunter and the 110gr Hornady OTM at 400 yards with every single shot once I have the wind doped (the area is relatively protected though, so it makes shooting that distance kinda easy). The Prohunter bullet is surprisingly accurate out at those ranges, which is a good thing as it is not an expensive purchase item! I'm seriously considering trying some 130gr Hawk bullets for hunting purposes (bear and hogs, mostly). My 6.5G and 5.56/.223 rifles will also do similar work at those ranges, with the edge probably going to the 6.5G at 400 yards for actual group size. But hitting a target at that range 10 out of 10 times five times in a row with either caliber (6.8SPC or 6.5G)is not a problem for me... so what your saying is, the 6.8 is less accurate than the 5.56 and 6.5 out at 400 yards? No, that's not what I am saying at all. I'm saying the 6.5G will have an edge at mid ranges and longer due to the better BC bullets currently available. There are match type bullets for the 6.8 currently in production and in planning that will completely equal the footing, IMHO. The 5.56 is actually not as good as the 6.8 SPC at distance (again, IMHO) due to the bullet weight difference and tendency of the .224 bullets to be blown around by the wind a bit more (we're talking specifically about bullets that can fit in the magazine and can be fired, not single loaded type rounds)... Match bullets for the 6.8 and 5.56 are similar in BC, and the 6.8 typically exceeds the velocity of those 5.56 bullets... Ditto, and 6.8 and 6.5 HUNTING bullets in the same range have similar BCs that will not make much difference at 400yds. If you are talking about MATCH bullets then the 6.5s have better BCs and should perform better past 400yds if you really shoot 400+ IMO neither of these cartridges are useful as big game cartridges past 350 or so. If I know my shots at deer will be at 400yds+ I'll take a 260. 7mm-08 or a mag of some kind. |
[url] www.AR15Performance.com [/url]
6.8, 5.56, 6BRX and 6.5BR rifles and uppers
6.8, 5.56, 6BRX and 6.5BR rifles and uppers
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Originally Posted By AR-Performance:
Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
Originally Posted By MaverickCowboy:
Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
Originally Posted By MaverickCowboy:
Whats the story, and which is more available? its not fun having a rifle in a cartridge thats a pain in the ass to hunt down. What does the new gen of 6.8 SPC TWO compare to the 6.5? are they the same? comparable? is the 6.8 spc2 better than the 6.5? or is the 6.5 still realistically superior to the 6.8? is the 5.56 still more accurate than the 6.8 SPC TWO? what do they do out of 14.5,16,18 and 20 barrels? from 100, to 1,000 yards. Again i am asking about the 6.8 SPC TWO and the 6.5 Grendel and 5.56 Which one is more accurate is a bit too broad of a question to honestly answer. There are higher ballistic coefficients on the 6.5 and .224 match bullets when compared to the 6.8 bullets, but that's only part of the equation. You have to take into account velocity and mass of the projectile as well. I can shoot sub MOA out to 200 yards with the 90gr Speer TNT bullet for the 6.8 SPC (matter of fact, the 200 yard groups are still under one inch in ten shots on a calm day), but add in some wind and I'm sure they'll open up a bit. I also can hit a 12" circular steel plate with both the 110gr Sierra Prohunter and the 110gr Hornady OTM at 400 yards with every single shot once I have the wind doped (the area is relatively protected though, so it makes shooting that distance kinda easy). The Prohunter bullet is surprisingly accurate out at those ranges, which is a good thing as it is not an expensive purchase item! I'm seriously considering trying some 130gr Hawk bullets for hunting purposes (bear and hogs, mostly). My 6.5G and 5.56/.223 rifles will also do similar work at those ranges, with the edge probably going to the 6.5G at 400 yards for actual group size. But hitting a target at that range 10 out of 10 times five times in a row with either caliber (6.8SPC or 6.5G)is not a problem for me... so what your saying is, the 6.8 is less accurate than the 5.56 and 6.5 out at 400 yards? No, that's not what I am saying at all. I'm saying the 6.5G will have an edge at mid ranges and longer due to the better BC bullets currently available. There are match type bullets for the 6.8 currently in production and in planning that will completely equal the footing, IMHO. The 5.56 is actually not as good as the 6.8 SPC at distance (again, IMHO) due to the bullet weight difference and tendency of the .224 bullets to be blown around by the wind a bit more (we're talking specifically about bullets that can fit in the magazine and can be fired, not single loaded type rounds)... Match bullets for the 6.8 and 5.56 are similar in BC, and the 6.8 typically exceeds the velocity of those 5.56 bullets... Ditto, and 6.8 and 6.5 HUNTING bullets in the same range have similar BCs that will not make much difference at 400yds. If you are talking about MATCH bullets then the 6.5s have better BCs and should perform better past 400yds if you really shoot 400+ IMO neither of these cartridges are useful as big game cartridges past 350 or so. If I know my shots at deer will be at 400yds+ I'll take a 260. 7mm-08 or a mag of some kind. So, if i get a 6.8 upper, eventually the roudns on the market will be on par with 6.5 as far as shooting 400+ yards? givin the available parts and ammo from multiple manufacturers. 6.8spc would be a less stressful buy? |
| The differences would be small. The biggest difference I would expect would be bullets getting blown by crosswind. I would expect the 5.56 would be the least accurate, the 6.8 would be more accurate and the 6.5 G would be the most accurate based on wind deflection. The 6.5 G also has Lapua brass available which is true match brass and better match bullets than the 6.8. That's for match type accuracy where you're shooting paper. For hunting or self defense I would expect the same ranking but it would be real close at 400 yards. To put it in perspective, I doubt most shooters would have the skill to hit the wall with either of them. |
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Originally Posted By MaverickCowboy:
Originally Posted By AR-Performance:
Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
Originally Posted By MaverickCowboy:
Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
Originally Posted By MaverickCowboy:
Whats the story, and which is more available? its not fun having a rifle in a cartridge thats a pain in the ass to hunt down. What does the new gen of 6.8 SPC TWO compare to the 6.5? are they the same? comparable? is the 6.8 spc2 better than the 6.5? or is the 6.5 still realistically superior to the 6.8? is the 5.56 still more accurate than the 6.8 SPC TWO? what do they do out of 14.5,16,18 and 20 barrels? from 100, to 1,000 yards. Again i am asking about the 6.8 SPC TWO and the 6.5 Grendel and 5.56 Which one is more accurate is a bit too broad of a question to honestly answer. There are higher ballistic coefficients on the 6.5 and .224 match bullets when compared to the 6.8 bullets, but that's only part of the equation. You have to take into account velocity and mass of the projectile as well. I can shoot sub MOA out to 200 yards with the 90gr Speer TNT bullet for the 6.8 SPC (matter of fact, the 200 yard groups are still under one inch in ten shots on a calm day), but add in some wind and I'm sure they'll open up a bit. I also can hit a 12" circular steel plate with both the 110gr Sierra Prohunter and the 110gr Hornady OTM at 400 yards with every single shot once I have the wind doped (the area is relatively protected though, so it makes shooting that distance kinda easy). The Prohunter bullet is surprisingly accurate out at those ranges, which is a good thing as it is not an expensive purchase item! I'm seriously considering trying some 130gr Hawk bullets for hunting purposes (bear and hogs, mostly). My 6.5G and 5.56/.223 rifles will also do similar work at those ranges, with the edge probably going to the 6.5G at 400 yards for actual group size. But hitting a target at that range 10 out of 10 times five times in a row with either caliber (6.8SPC or 6.5G)is not a problem for me... so what your saying is, the 6.8 is less accurate than the 5.56 and 6.5 out at 400 yards? No, that's not what I am saying at all. I'm saying the 6.5G will have an edge at mid ranges and longer due to the better BC bullets currently available. There are match type bullets for the 6.8 currently in production and in planning that will completely equal the footing, IMHO. The 5.56 is actually not as good as the 6.8 SPC at distance (again, IMHO) due to the bullet weight difference and tendency of the .224 bullets to be blown around by the wind a bit more (we're talking specifically about bullets that can fit in the magazine and can be fired, not single loaded type rounds)... Match bullets for the 6.8 and 5.56 are similar in BC, and the 6.8 typically exceeds the velocity of those 5.56 bullets... Ditto, and 6.8 and 6.5 HUNTING bullets in the same range have similar BCs that will not make much difference at 400yds. If you are talking about MATCH bullets then the 6.5s have better BCs and should perform better past 400yds if you really shoot 400+ IMO neither of these cartridges are useful as big game cartridges past 350 or so. If I know my shots at deer will be at 400yds+ I'll take a 260. 7mm-08 or a mag of some kind. So, if i get a 6.8 upper, eventually the roudns on the market will be on par with 6.5 as far as shooting 400+ yards? givin the available parts and ammo from multiple manufacturers. 6.8spc would be a less stressful buy? There won't be 6.8 bullets with BC's matching the 6.5 ever. The match bullets for the 6.5 will progresss also, and any gain will be used on them also. In fact, most of the advantages will probably happen to 6.5 sooner, becaueso many guys shoot them in long range competition. |
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6.8 available factory ammo
6.8 SPC BVAC––––––-110 Vmax ––––––––––––––-115OTM Corbon––––––110 TTSX ––––––––––––––115 SMK ––––––––––––––115 subsonic DoubleTap––95TTSX ––––––––––––––-110 Vmax ––––––––––––––-115 FMJ ––––––––––––––-110TTSX ––––––––––––––-110 OTM Hornady––––-110 Vmax ––––––––––––––-110 OTM Hunting Shack-110 Vmax ––––––––––––––-115 OTM Rem.––––––––-115 FMJ ––––––––––––––-115 HPBT ––––––––––––––115 corelokt ––––––––––––––115SMK Sellier&Bellot-110 TTSX ––––––––––––––––-110 Vmax SSA––––––––––––85 TSX––––––––––––SSAs loads available in Commercial and Tactical velocities ––––––––––––––––90 TNT ––––––––––––––––95 frangable ––––––––––––––––97 AP ––––––––––––––––100 Nosler Accubond ––––––––––––––––110 Nosler Accubond ––––––––––––––––110 Sierra Pro hunter ––––––––––––––––110 TTSX ––––––––––––––––115 SMK ––––––––––––-95gr Barnes TTSX Manufacturers Barrett RRA Armalite LMT Bushmaster TC MSAR Cmmg Remington Addax POF WOA Globa Tact. LWRC Stag DPMS Noveske PRI MSTN Ruger Wilson Combat FN Robinson Arms Titan Bison AR Performance YHM Model 1 sales |
[url] www.AR15Performance.com [/url]
6.8, 5.56, 6BRX and 6.5BR rifles and uppers
6.8, 5.56, 6BRX and 6.5BR rifles and uppers
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Originally Posted By bwaites:
In fact, most of the advantages will probably happen to 6.5 sooner, becaueso many guys shoot them in long range competition. Is that guess or experience in said matches? Long range competition is not exactly the fastest growing shooting sport there is (it may even be shrinking for all I know), it hardly gets the attention USPSA or 3 Gun sees in the "gun media". I will be the first to agree, competition has driven changes in guns, ammo , optics etc, however long range comps market share is so small, I would imagine it would something larger may drive 6.5 advancement maybe a mil or LEO factor or even a hunting market place would help make such advances. Just a thought anyway. |
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The obvious problem with getting high BC bullets in 6.8 is overall length due to the case being longer, and narrower, than the 6.5. So even if you built a higher BC (longer than what is currently offered) you would either eat up case capacity or exceed mag length. More power to those that try to squeeze every bit out of their ammo, but you still can't change physics
This argument makes little sense since that's not what the 6.8 was intended for anyway. It is very good at putting a heavier (than 5.56) bullet down range and short and intermediate distances...accurately. You can try making it something it's not, a long range sniper gun, but you'd be better off buying a caliber designed for that purpose. As has been pointed out many times, both the 6.8 and 6.5 have the ballistic advantage over the 5.56. Both are fun to play with, tinker with, and reload for. Apparently their also fun to argue about  .
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"We'll keep clinging to our Constitution and our guns and religion, and you can keep the change." - Sarah Palin
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Originally Posted By Dogue:
Yes to all of the above. If I had invested in a 6.8SPC would I sell it to buy a 6.5G? No, I would not. If I were vested in making 6.8SPC rifles is there any reason to quit and begin to make 6.5G's only, not in my opinion.
The obvious problem with getting high BC bullets in 6.8 is overall length due to the case being longer, and narrower, than the 6.5. So even if you built a higher BC (longer than what is currently offered) you would either eat up case capacity or exceed mag length. More power to those that try to squeeze every bit out of their ammo, but you still can't change physics This argument makes little sense since that's not what the 6.8 was intended for anyway. It is very good at putting a heavier (than 5.56) bullet down range and short and intermediate distances...accurately. You can try making it something it's not, a long range sniper gun, but you'd be better off buying a caliber designed for that purpose. As has been pointed out many times, both the 6.8 and 6.5 have the ballistic advantage over the 5.56. Both are fun to play with, tinker with, and reload for. Apparently their also fun to argue about .I didn't own a 6.8SPC and don't make many rifles, I simply did some research over a number of years and made my choice based on what I found. I put together a 6.5 Grendel. I own rifles that shoot .30-06 and 7.62NATO. Saying that both have a substantial selection of ammo variety to choose from would be an understatement. I reload for the .30-06, 165 grain bullets. I shoot NATO standard ammo or match ammo in the 7.62NATO rifle and that is it. The vast number of projectiles available for the two calibers is irrelevant to me, but maybe not to everyone. At the moment I have factory ammo for my 6.5G with three different projectiles, the newest is the 123 Grain A-Max loaded ammo from Hornady. I have brass with which to experiment, we'll see what else shoots well in my rifle. |
Pat
[url]http://public.fotki.com/fastpat/self_defense/ar-rifles-1/ar-rifles/ar-15-6-5grendel.html[/url]
[url]http://public.fotki.com/fastpat/self_defense/ar-rifles-1/ar-rifles/ar-15-6-5grendel.html[/url]
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Originally Posted By Pat_H:
Originally Posted By Dogue:
Yes to all of the above. If I had invested in a 6.8SPC would I sell it to buy a 6.5G? No, I would not. If I were vested in making 6.8SPC rifles is there any reason to quit and begin to make 6.5G's only, not in my opinion.
The obvious problem with getting high BC bullets in 6.8 is overall length due to the case being longer, and narrower, than the 6.5. So even if you built a higher BC (longer than what is currently offered) you would either eat up case capacity or exceed mag length. More power to those that try to squeeze every bit out of their ammo, but you still can't change physics This argument makes little sense since that's not what the 6.8 was intended for anyway. It is very good at putting a heavier (than 5.56) bullet down range and short and intermediate distances...accurately. You can try making it something it's not, a long range sniper gun, but you'd be better off buying a caliber designed for that purpose. As has been pointed out many times, both the 6.8 and 6.5 have the ballistic advantage over the 5.56. Both are fun to play with, tinker with, and reload for. Apparently their also fun to argue about .I didn't own a 6.8SPC and don't make many rifles, I simply did some research over a number of years and made my choice based on what I found. I put together a 6.5 Grendel. I own rifles that shoot .30-06 and 7.62NATO. Saying that both have a substantial selection of ammo variety to choose from would be an understatement. I reload for the .30-06, 165 grain bullets. I shoot NATO standard ammo or match ammo in the 7.62NATO rifle and that is it. The vast number of projectiles available for the two calibers is irrelevant to me, but maybe not to everyone. At the moment I have factory ammo for my 6.5G with three different projectiles, the newest is the 123 Grain A-Max loaded ammo from Hornady. I have brass with which to experiment, we'll see what else shoots well in my rifle. That's why I always buy both! Seriously, I haven't shot my 6.5G as much simply b/c I do not need to carry the extra 6 inches or barrel around with me all the time (on 14 inches when compared to my 10.5" SBR setup)... |
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I was aiming at a turkey's head from 418 yards away with my 18" ar15perfromance upper as he was walking slowly towards a tree stand. I missed his head and hit him in the thigh with the 110 grain pro hunter loaded with 31.2 gr of H322 with wold small rifle magnum primer. after climbing down the the tree and looking for the wounded bird I got charged by a 210 pound boar from about 120 yards away and he took one prohunter into the chest spun in a circle and dropped dead.
plus the guys on the 6.8 forum are very cool |
The reason Carter likes Obama is now he can go to his grave knowing he was not our worst president ever
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Originally Posted By coldair:
I was aiming at a turkey's head from 418 yards away with my 18" ar15perfromance upper as he was walking slowly towards a tree stand. I missed his head and hit him in the thigh with the 110 grain pro hunter loaded with 31.2 gr of H322 with wold small rifle magnum primer. after climbing down the the tree and looking for the wounded bird I got charged by a 210 pound boar from about 120 yards away and he took one prohunter into the chest spun in a circle and dropped dead. plus the guys on the 6.8 forum are very cool Yes, the 68 guys are very cool.... And the 6.8 is a good pig killin round, and deer killin round as well....some guys at 68forums hunt them piggies quite often, and they mostly use the Barnes 85gr bullets to do so with. And comparing the 5.56 to the 68 out to 400 yards...the 68 will have a lil more bullet drop and not be as fast but it'll also be packin about 400lbs more energy with it as well. I don't know much about the 65 so I'm not even gonna say anything else about that. 
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Originally Posted By RatTerrier:
Originally Posted By coldair:
I was aiming at a turkey's head from 418 yards away with my 18" ar15perfromance upper as he was walking slowly towards a tree stand. I missed his head and hit him in the thigh with the 110 grain pro hunter loaded with 31.2 gr of H322 with wold small rifle magnum primer. after climbing down the the tree and looking for the wounded bird I got charged by a 210 pound boar from about 120 yards away and he took one prohunter into the chest spun in a circle and dropped dead. plus the guys on the 6.8 forum are very cool Yes, the 68 guys are very cool.... And the 6.8 is a good pig killin round, and deer killin round as well....some guys at 68forums hunt them piggies quite often, and they mostly use the Barnes 85gr bullets to do so with. And comparing the 5.56 to the 68 out to 400 yards...the 68 will have a lil more bullet drop and not be as fast but it'll also be packin about 400lbs more energy with it as well. I don't know much about the 65 so I'm not even gonna say anything else about that.
Depending on the bullet, the 6.8 will have less drop and more velocity. The 110gr Accubond can do over 2700 fps out of my 18" barreled upper (with a listed BC of .370, but a drop in the low to mid .390s), which is better than the vast majority of the match bullets for the 5.56/.223...and this is a hunting bullet we're talking about. |
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Given the support..supply chain...ammo chain....gunsmith chain...customer base
and performance out of a 12.5 in barrel I had to go with 6.8 SPC SPII Chamber ..4 groove barrel..with a Cr lined bore and chamber and a 1:11 twist Daniel Defense new offering coming up with a CHF CR lined barrel in 16" and 18" mid gassed weapons with SPII chambers 4 groove barrels with 1:11 twist rates Then there is also Noveske's offerings their light wt Rogue Hunter series For anything else I also have bolt actions in 243, 260, and 308 |
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell
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The whole point is that the 6.8 was specifically developed for 400m+ use from 14.5" barrels, as an improvement over the 5.56. More effective range and higher lethality were the goals and results.
The 6.5 was developed as a 600m target round, holds the record, and the concept sold to Alexander. Les Baer is now pushing the cart for the benefit of 6.5 shooters. That they are brothers in the AR caliber assortment is clear, what get confusing is when the clear advantages of each ballistic package and platform application are put on a Chinese menu as if they are interchangeable. Well, I'm 5"6", and my brother is 5"11" and there's a hundred pound difference between us. No, brother, we don't wear the same underwear. Our job careers, lives, and accomplishments are more different than the same. We have our strengths and weaknesses. For the average hunter and combat shooter, a nice long bullet with high BC is a waste of money. Most shooters in the field or in combat simply don't take shots over 400m, it's a documented fact in the military. Neither do sales figures - carbine length 6.8's are common, and virtually unknown in 6.5. Most shooters understand the difference, and a ream of tables with inconsistent barrel lengths and rosy prose won't change the facts. Fourteen pages of discussion hasn't brought anything new to the table. The 6.8 is better carbine length round and the 6.5 a better long range round than the 5.56. Hunters are buying the 6.8 ten to one or more over the 6.5. Hunters prefer the advantages of a 16" AR in the field, and use them. If something bigger is needed, they already have it to do the job. Another 6.x in the stable isn't easy to justify for another hundred yards of effective range and even more difficult ammo supply. Both are wildcats, enjoy the one that matches your application. Please don't insist that either is the One caliber that rules them all. It's very apparent that someone will conjure up a better one if it doesn't already exist. |
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Originally Posted By tirod:
Both are wildcats, No. The 6.8 SPC is a SAAMI approved round. Ammo by several companies with uppers/rifles by damn near anyone who makes an AR15. The 6.5 Grendel is loaded by Hornady, Wolf and brass by Lapua. Uppers by Sabre and a few more places. I think both have exceeded wildcat status for some time now. |
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Originally Posted By Cold:
Originally Posted By tirod:
Both are wildcats, No. The 6.8 SPC is a SAAMI approved round. Ammo by several companies with uppers/rifles by damn near anyone who makes an AR15. The 6.5 Grendel is loaded by Hornady, Wolf and brass by Lapua. Uppers by Sabre and a few more places. I think both have exceeded wildcat status for some time now. The 6.5 is actually loaded by Alexander Arms, Hornady, Black Hills, several boutique builders, and Wolf. With brass from Lapua and Hornady, as well as AA headstamped brass from Lapua. Uppers are made by at least a dozen builders now, with AA, Sabre, JT, etc. taking the major share of those. The 6.8 is SAAMI approved in its original incarnation, but no one seems to be buying that version, so I'm not sure that has much impact. Both Remington and Hornady are sitting on fairly significant stockpiles of SAAMI ammo, I am told reliably. BUT....certainly neither could be considered a wildcat any longer, both are long legitimized. |
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Originally Posted By tirod:
The whole point is that the 6.8 was specifically developed for 400m+ use from 14.5" barrels, as an improvement over the 5.56. More effective range and higher lethality were the goals and results. The 6.5 was developed as a 600m target round, holds the record, and the concept sold to Alexander. Les Baer is now pushing the cart for the benefit of 6.5 shooters. That they are brothers in the AR caliber assortment is clear, what get confusing is when the clear advantages of each ballistic package and platform application are put on a Chinese menu as if they are interchangeable. Well, I'm 5"6", and my brother is 5"11" and there's a hundred pound difference between us. No, brother, we don't wear the same underwear. Our job careers, lives, and accomplishments are more different than the same. We have our strengths and weaknesses. For the average hunter and combat shooter, a nice long bullet with high BC is a waste of money. Most shooters in the field or in combat simply don't take shots over 400m, it's a documented fact in the military. Neither do sales figures - carbine length 6.8's are common, and virtually unknown in 6.5. Most shooters understand the difference, and a ream of tables with inconsistent barrel lengths and rosy prose won't change the facts. Fourteen pages of discussion hasn't brought anything new to the table. The 6.8 is better carbine length round and the 6.5 a better long range round than the 5.56. Hunters are buying the 6.8 ten to one or more over the 6.5. Hunters prefer the advantages of a 16" AR in the field, and use them. If something bigger is needed, they already have it to do the job. Another 6.x in the stable isn't easy to justify for another hundred yards of effective range and even more difficult ammo supply. Both are wildcats, enjoy the one that matches your application. Please don't insist that either is the One caliber that rules them all. It's very apparent that someone will conjure up a better one if it doesn't already exist. Hey, wait a minute! you're trying to bring common sense into this, knock it off!
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Ok, here's my $.02
I think AR variants are a boatload of fun, currently I own two (458Socom & 5.7x28). My next build is going to be a 6.8 for the following reasons. 1. A wide variety of barre/upper choices from many vendors. 2. Funds are tight so 6.8 fits better within my budget 3. I already reload for .270 Win. so I have a good stock of bullets to experiment with. 4. Max distance to shoot here is 300yds or less without a couple hour drive each way. eventually I will most likely build a 6.5G also along with a 450B, 50 Beowulf & a 7.62x25. After all it's the true Arfcom way, "One of each!" 
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Is either caliber a wildcat? Given the continued evolution of development to change the SAMMI spec that was technically in error for the 6.8, and the lack of SAMMI spec for 6.5, it's arguable. Having a lot of companies make it adds a lot of weight.
I see on a lot of generic gun forums a dissatisfaction with the availabilty of either, especially at plinking prices. The practice of driving down to the nearest super large 24/7 retailer and grabbing boxes of ammo on the way to the range is frequently cited as an advantage, whether it really is or not. 6.8 isn't on the shelf, much less 6.5. Since Joe Fudd can't buy ammo on impulse, I characterize it as a wildcat - to get his attention that it's not something you find at the crossroads country store or in pallets on the gunshop floor. I'd like to think either round is something more than cheap fodder for bumpfiring practice. I probably wouldn't lose any sleep if that happened.
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Originally Posted By tirod:
I see on a lot of generic gun forums a dissatisfaction with the availabilty of either, especially at plinking prices. The practice of driving down to the nearest super large 24/7 retailer and grabbing boxes of ammo on the way to the range is frequently cited as an advantage, whether it really is or not. 6.8 isn't on the shelf, much less 6.5. Since Joe Fudd can't buy ammo on impulse, I characterize it as a wildcat - to get his attention that it's not something you find at the crossroads country store or in pallets on the gunshop floor. . To be honest & blunt, your statement about both rounds wildcat status is about as outdated as it gets. You don't buy a "insert expensive car of your choice here" and feed it 89 octane. You don't buy a round that has been in existence for less than a decade and expect it to be sold at every Tom Dick & Harry Gun Store. By your own description of what constitutes a "wildcat" then there are quite a few cartridges that would then fall into that designation that we all know are beyond wildcats. Several rounds by Weatherby come to mind for example. Walmart and several other large retailers of your choice do not carry every round that the "masses" have deemed to be out and above wildcat status. Actually Walmart has a pathetic ammo selection when you look at it. ]Like it or not, fact is, if your posting on this very website, you can get 6,8 , 6.5 or whatever else you need to feed your rifle online, at competitive prices, without issue. |
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Oh, how the ghost of you clings...
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My problem with the 6.8 SPC is due to the lack of progress in certain areas. Years ago, mot of the 6.8 guys were all on the same page with getting the cartrige mainstream. Everyone was on the same page and then things change with guys wanting their own thing. As a result, it seems like for every 2 steps forward, it goes 1 or 2 steps back.
Things such as SSA thickening up the brass for better accuracy, caused problems in chambers. Apparently that has been fixed, but that caused problems. Plinking ammo. I think I have a better chance of growing hair. Even if it ever comes out, I doubt it will be cheap. And for anyone that doesn't think that is an issue, try taking a high round class and see how much it will cost. And with the economy the way it is how can PD's afford to switch to it? PRI mags used to be the best, but since they wentto the waffle style, they had issues, which supposedly they fixed, but still hearing problems with them. Another step back. There still isn't a good match bullet. I thought Nosler would get it right with the 115 GR BTHP, but it is almost identical to the Sierra 115 GR SMK. All of the bullets in the last 3 years have all been hunting bullets. Even those have been hit or miss. When Barnes came out with the 110 GR TTSX, I thought that would be the perfect bullet for the 6.8, instead they made the ogive too long and you have to load them to 2.3", which is no good unless you handload and have PRI mags. Then the 95 GR TTSX was supposed to be the end all bullet for the 6.8 and now supposedly SSA can't load them because the bands are positioned so that you have to load the bullets out to 2.85-2.3". My first reaction to this was, how stupid. The 85 GR TSX are too light for my taste. I think the ideal weight for he 6.8 is 110 GR. When you start going that light, you might as well stick with the 5.56 as they have a much better BC. And the lighter bullets bring a whole new problem with short stroking. The heavier bullets prefer the medium fast powders such as H322. When you go to the lighter bullets, they prefer the H4198 powders, which are even faster. So if you set up the gas port for the lighter bullets, you will get hard recoil with the heavier bullets and if you set up the gas port for the heavier bullets, you may get short stroking with the lighter bullets. I experienced this with the majority of my barrels. So while I still think the 6.8 is a great round, it has become nothing more than a hunting round. And even that, the 5.56 has come out with some real nice hunting bullets that has hurt the 6.8, so unless you live in a state that doesn't allow you to use the 5.56, a lit of guys are sticking with the 5.56, which is cheaper. So IMHO, the 6.8 is becoming more of a hunter/reloaders/wildcatters cartridge than it is becoming mainstream. I still think it is one of the best cartridges for the AR15, along with the Grendel, but unless the 6.8 makes a huge turn for the better in the next year or so, I don't see it getting much popular than it already is, no matter how many manufacturers get behind it. Because if most of the guys just get an upper and shoot it a couple of times a year during the hunting season or just to get it out of the closet to wipe the dust off, it isn't doing much good for sales of brass, ammo, and other components. I'm not bashing the 6.8 as I have spent thousands of dollars of my own money testing this round and have easily shot over 20k rounds through a total of 8 different uppers. My frustration with the 6.8 is because of the direction it is headed. Respectfully, Paulo Santos Edit to add: I didn't come back to ARFCOM to get into with anyone over this issue. This is just my opinion after 5 years of testing it. If the round fits your purposes, go for it. |
6.8SPC or 6.5G? Which one should I buy? (Page 7 of 14)
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