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6.5 Grendel FAQ (Page 7 of 10)
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
I had Shilen barrel me a 6.5-270 back in the mid-70s, and as far back as then, 6.5 meant .264, and vice versa. And that bullet diameter and cartridge was Warren Page's favorite sheep medicine ... fond memories.  I think that the 6.5-270 = 6.5 x 65 RWS. |
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Originally Posted By RedFalconBill:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
I had Shilen barrel me a 6.5-270 back in the mid-70s, and as far back as then, 6.5 meant .264, and vice versa. And that bullet diameter and cartridge was Warren Page's favorite sheep medicine ... fond memories. I think that the 6.5-270 = 6.5 x 65 RWS. Run Walk Swim ? |
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ETA - We've done the math. ;-) You learn things while building 100,000+ mounts ... and we include it in every mount going out our door. ML
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Run Walk Swim ? Rheinisch-Westfälischen Sprengstoff It's 120 year-old German armament company, which is also known for it's airgun ammo. You may have seen their logo : 
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Alright, so I'm trying to figure out a muzzle brake for my 24" AA barrel. It's already threaded and I know the correct thread pitch needed is 9/16-24. Now that beeing said the version I was looking at on Alexander Arms isn't in stock and it probably won't be in until near christmas. My problem is the gun is for my father and I'd like to give it to him while I'm home on leave. So I've been looking at other muzzle brakes. I've found one by Ops Inc. (R3E2C Muzzle brake) in brownells and it shows as this:
Stock Cal Thread O.D. #504-000-004 .30 9/16-24 .866" Will this muzzle brake work or will I need one for a smaller caliber? I know on some of the other muzzle brakes it recommends exit hole be up to .020" while others say .040"over bullet diameter. Just not sure if it's too big. 
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| I have a Sabre Gill brake (Grendel version) exit hole measures 0.288". Thats 0.288 - 0.264 = 0.024" over bore. Just a guess but seems to me that the more overbore, the less effecient the brake but someone in the know can skool us on it. One thing for sure is This brake IS effective but hurts accuracy. YMMV |
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Originally Posted By ShotGun_Jack:
Is it the standard gill brake or the "tactical" one? I have the tactical one on 18" Grendel and it shoots pretty well.
I have a Sabre Gill brake (Grendel version) exit hole measures 0.288". Thats 0.288 - 0.264 = 0.024" over bore. Just a guess but seems to me that the more overbore, the less effecient the brake but someone in the know can skool us on it. One thing for sure is This brake IS effective but hurts accuracy. YMMV I got the DNTC brake for my 24" Grendel build, though. |
"There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11?" - Yuri Orlov
| So I went to Rainier Arms and looked at the DNTC Comp - Aggressive, OPS Inc Brake & Collar, and Primary Weapon Systems DNTC Compensator - For AR15/M16 but none of them have any information about caliber, exit hole or threading. Does anyone have any links or know of websites that have muzzle brakes/compensaters in a 9/16-24 for the 6.5 grendel that are in stock? |
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Alexander Arms has the DNTC comp and Sabre has the gill brake. There aren't a whole lot of other choices since the Grendel uses a backwards thread.
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"There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11?" - Yuri Orlov
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Originally Posted By DrBaker:
I've been looking at the 18" barrel/bolt combo on the AA website. Does anyone know if this barrel is already dimpled for a gas block with bottom set screws? nope. At least mine isn't. |
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Originally Posted By DrBaker:
I've been looking at the 18" barrel/bolt combo on the AA website. Does anyone know if this barrel is already dimpled for a gas block with bottom set screws? I ordered mine on November 6. Hoping to see it soon. I shot an email out to them 5 days ago but haven't heard back. I understand they are extremely busy, so I wait patiently while amassing mags and ammo for it. 
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Click on the following link to download a PDF file of the new Alexander Arms Catalog 2009!
John | 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. | www.65grendel.com |
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Originally Posted By Grendelizor:
Click on the following link to download a PDF file of the new Alexander Arms Catalog 2009! John | 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. | www.65grendel.com Chromed bolts! Cool! |
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You know, you guys with this 6.5 Grendel nonsense really piss me off!
I have a nice gun collection, lotsa tactical, target, several AR's, and I WAS very happy.Then I started reading all about these "other" calibers, 6.8, 6.5, etc.Now, I HAVE to own one.Thought I was all done buying and building and could simply enjoy my reloading and shooting, with some cleaning tossed in for good measure.But no.... you guys have to post charts, specs, and even PICTURES.LOTS of them, with really cool looking shit.Tactical.Target.Hunting.Varmints.Great..... Would be cheaper to buy a boat. But I wanna thank you all for it, and I'll post some pictures soon. |
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so does anyone make a fluted heavy barrel for these?? call me vain, but i prefer the look
EDIT: i also noticed AA has the purpose built billet upper with the side charge handle. why does it still have a standard charge handle as well? just seems a bit redundant to me |
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Originally Posted By kc215:
I have a 14.5 tactical with the A2 flash hider on it. I picked up a Smith Vortex. My question, Will the accuracy be affected by the Smith? I haven't put it on yet, it will have to be attached permanently. No, (I have one on my 18") The Vortex is a good choice if you are concerned about degrading accuracy since you don't have to crank it tight since the design of the flutes keep it tight when firing. |
"War is less costly than servitude. The choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." -Jean Dutourd
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Originally Posted By ShotGun_Jack:
I have a Sabre Gill brake (Grendel version) exit hole measures 0.288". Thats 0.288 - 0.264 = 0.024" over bore. Just a guess but seems to me that the more overbore, the less effecient the brake but someone in the know can skool us on it. One thing for sure is This brake IS effective but hurts accuracy. YMMV Consider that a muzzle brake only functions to divert and break up gas flow thereby reducing the felt recoil when all emerge at once following the base of the bullet. Sako TRG 22/42 rifles vary from .308 to .338 diameter and the brake is interchangeable, that is to say, NOT caliber specific. Maybe your brake does hurt accuracy? Might be the tolerances are too tight and the bullet is knocking around? Once bullet exits barrel crown, into brake area, unless brake is integral, the bullet will begin to fall. Might be worth looking at your brake with a magnifying glass to see if there are any bullet strikes occurring. If so, enlarge the exit hole and see if your groups improve. |
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Originally Posted By exhogflyer:
You know, you guys with this 6.5 Grendel nonsense really piss me off! I have a nice gun collection, lotsa tactical, target, several AR's, and I WAS very happy.Then I started reading all about these "other" calibers, 6.8, 6.5, etc.Now, I HAVE to own one.Thought I was all done buying and building and could simply enjoy my reloading and shooting, with some cleaning tossed in for good measure.But no.... you guys have to post charts, specs, and even PICTURES.LOTS of them, with really cool looking shit.Tactical.Target.Hunting.Varmints.Great..... Would be cheaper to buy a boat. But I wanna thank you all for it, and I'll post some pictures soon. Might also check out the 6mmAR which is a necked down Grendel. I am kinda tired of my 13 & 15 pound AR-10s, as they are not really woods-walking rifles at that weight. I have a 6mm/22-250 Ackley Improved match barreled upper that is very cool, but thinking the 27" heavy contour 10T barrel could be turned down to a AR-15 profile. Robert Whitley has done a helluva job pioneering the 6mmAR Turbo (6mmAR.com). 105 gr match bullets at 2800fps gives real 1000yd performance. Maybe a turboed Grendel is in your future? I am even thinking about the .338 Whisper, but a shortened Grendel with AI case design should deliver more velocity and still be feasible. A 300gr .338 bullet at 1350fps is almost like a .454 Casull, but the ballistic coefficient of the bullet makes longrange accuracy very doable. Nothing better than wildcatting! |
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Originally Posted By BlahBlah:
Alexander Arms has the DNTC comp and Sabre has the gill brake. There aren't a whole lot of other choices since the Grendel uses a backwards thread. Just have your 'smith re-thread your barrel. I will be using the .308 Miculek brake on my Grendel. I figger the exit hole will be plenty big enough. Shouldn't hurt accuracy either, given what we just learned about the .308/.338 TRG brake. |
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Originally Posted By oneshotkyle:
what is everyones thought's with the css barrel, bolt, and gas block kits? i am in the process and hunt for 18"-20" barrel with matching bolt, but am curious who has bought from css and there thoughts. thank you..........kyle yeah, I'd like to know about them too, was just about ready to trip the trigger on one. |
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Originally Posted By Al_in_Mi:
Originally Posted By oneshotkyle:
what is everyones thought's with the css barrel, bolt, and gas block kits? i am in the process and hunt for 18"-20" barrel with matching bolt, but am curious who has bought from css and there thoughts. thank you..........kyle yeah, I'd like to know about them too, was just about ready to trip the trigger on one. I wish I could tell you, I am still waiting for my order to arrive. The CSS kits use the Lothar Walther barrel which has a good reputation for accuracy. I ordered March 3, they are waiting on bolts is what I have been told. |
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Originally Posted By 3crowns:
Is CSS still in business? I googled it but got nothing. http://www.competitionshooting.com/ They don't have much for products on their website now, it does say 50 CSS coming soon, which I assume to be their version of the 50 Beowulf. |
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Originally Posted By GrantMan:
Originally Posted By 3crowns:
Is CSS still in business? I googled it but got nothing. http://www.competitionshooting.com/ They don't have much for products on their website now, it does say 50 CSS coming soon, which I assume to be their version of the 50 Beowulf. Thanks! I see CSS uses Lothar-Walther barrels. How do these rate quality-wise? |
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Originally Posted By GrantMan:
Originally Posted By 3crowns:
Is CSS still in business? I googled it but got nothing. http://www.competitionshooting.com/ They don't have much for products on their website now, it does say 50 CSS coming soon, which I assume to be their version of the 50 Beowulf. The people that own CSS told me the site needs an update they just have not messed with it much but Im sure they will. |
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Available Configurations: complete rifles or just uppers with barrel lengths of 14.5" 16.1", 19.5", 20", 24" and 28 inches ranging from mild to wild.
Alexander Arms offers a 10.5'' complete upper as well |
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Originally Posted By GrantMan:
Originally Posted By 3crowns:
Is CSS still in business? I googled it but got nothing. http://www.competitionshooting.com/ On the CSS website it describes these barrels as: "chambered in the 6.5mm .295 neck chamber" What does that mean? |
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Originally Posted By 3crowns:
Originally Posted By GrantMan:
Originally Posted By 3crowns:
Is CSS still in business? I googled it but got nothing. http://www.competitionshooting.com/ On the CSS website it describes these barrels as: "chambered in the 6.5mm .295 neck chamber" What does that mean? Alexander Arms uses a .300 diameter neck chamber which is part of their design and name for the Grendel. CSS uses the .295 for theirs which is probably because of legal reasons. The advantage of the .295 is less stress on the neck of the brass and the disadvantage is feeding reliability after many firings without cleaning. They both shoot the same ammo of course. |
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Originally Posted By 3crowns:
Originally Posted By GrantMan:
Originally Posted By 3crowns:
Is CSS still in business? I googled it but got nothing. http://www.competitionshooting.com/ They don't have much for products on their website now, it does say 50 CSS coming soon, which I assume to be their version of the 50 Beowulf. Thanks! I see CSS uses Lothar-Walther barrels. How do these rate quality-wise? I have not had a chance on first hand inspection or testing yet, but from googling LW I did not find any complaints. |
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14 pages later and didn't find the answers I seek.
1. what bolt works with the 6.5? is it the 7.62X39 bolt? 2. what gas system works best, mid or rifle length? 3. if one was to have a custom barrel made what twist works best and what about # of grooves? I'm looking to build (AR platform) a 200-500 yard rifle, mostly just for punching small holes in paper but if it can built light enough maybe used as a new hunting rig. I would like to keep the barrel length 18" or less but not a must. any anwser or comments welcome, thanks |
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Originally Posted By azarmory:
14 pages later and didn't find the answers I seek. 1. what bolt works with the 6.5? is it the 7.62X39 bolt? 2. what gas system works best, mid or rifle length? 3. if one was to have a custom barrel made what twist works best and what about # of grooves? I'm looking to build (AR platform) a 200-500 yard rifle, mostly just for punching small holes in paper but if it can built light enough maybe used as a new hunting rig. I would like to keep the barrel length 18" or less but not a must. any anwser or comments welcome, thanks 1. Generally speaking, the bolt is sized for 7.62x39, but definitely get it from Alexander Arms. They have a standard model and a chromed model. 2. The port pressure for the 65G is less than 556, so you can get by with shorter gas systems. For example, the carbine gas-port position in a 14.5 bbl 65G is not as rough on the system as it is in a 556. For an 18" bbl, AA uses the mid-length gas-port position. 3. Twist of 1:8.5 to 1:9 would hedge your bets for best stabilization of full bullet weight range under all conditions. AA uses 6 grooves for tactical and standard models, and 5 grooves for top-shelf models with Satern cut-rifled barrels. John | 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. | www.65grendel.com |
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Originally Posted By Grendelizor:
Originally Posted By azarmory:
14 pages later and didn't find the answers I seek. 1. what bolt works with the 6.5? is it the 7.62X39 bolt? 2. what gas system works best, mid or rifle length? 3. if one was to have a custom barrel made what twist works best and what about # of grooves? I'm looking to build (AR platform) a 200-500 yard rifle, mostly just for punching small holes in paper but if it can built light enough maybe used as a new hunting rig. I would like to keep the barrel length 18" or less but not a must. any anwser or comments welcome, thanks 1. Generally speaking, the bolt is sized for 7.62x39, but definitely get it from Alexander Arms. They have a standard model and a chromed model. 2. The port pressure for the 65G is less than 556, so you can get by with shorter gas systems. For example, the carbine gas-port position in a 14.5 bbl 65G is not as rough on the system as it is in a 556. For an 18" bbl, AA uses the mid-length gas-port position. 3. Twist of 1:8.5 to 1:9 would hedge your bets for best stabilization of full bullet weight range under all conditions. AA uses 6 grooves for tactical and standard models, and 5 grooves for top-shelf models with Satern cut-rifled barrels. John | 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. | www.65grendel.com alittle bit of research led me to belives that AA uses a 7.62X39 bolt with the bolt face cut deeper and the barrel chambered accordingly (making it a proprietary thing), would you know if there is any truth to this? and if so does this make the bolt weak? thanks for the above info. |
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Originally Posted By azarmory:little bit of research led me to belives that AA uses a 7.62X39 bolt with the bolt face cut deeper and the barrel chambered accordingly (making it a proprietary thing), would you know if there is any truth to this? and if so does this make the bolt weak?
AA contracts to have their bolts made for them according to their specs. Their steel, heat treat, and certain dimensional tweaks are different than "standard" 7.62x39 bolts offered by, for example, DPMS. If they were using a standard 7.62x39 and simply reaming out the bolt face, then, yes, it would make the bolt weaker. But such is not the case. The bolt is as strong as it can be without going to exotic metals and tripling, or more, the cost. AA uses a bolt face cut to a depth of .136", as opposed to a standard 5.56 depth of .125". This is to account for the thicker rim of the 65G case so that the extractor can retain relatively the same amount of "meat" in the claw. Compare the rim thickness of a 556 case versus a 65G to see why this is necessary. If AA's bolts are not the industry standard, they probably should be. With both their .50 Beowulf and 6.5 Grendel models, they probably make more "7.62x39" bolts than all the other makers combined. John | 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. | www.65grendel.com |
| Does anyone make a Chrome or enhanced bolt for the grendel? |
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For those 6.5 barrels chambered for the AA boltface, your only choice is an AA bolt. Their bolts are 'enhanced', and they offer a chromed version.
For those 6.5 barrels chambered for a 7.62x39 boltface, there are many choices. Some are standard, some are 'enhanced', and both plain and chromed varieties of both are available. AR15 Performance offers the SuperBolt in 7.62x39, and LMT may still have some of their enhanced and chromed 'lobster tail' bolts left. |
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Originally Posted By Grendelizor:
Originally Posted By azarmory:little bit of research led me to belives that AA uses a 7.62X39 bolt with the bolt face cut deeper and the barrel chambered accordingly (making it a proprietary thing), would you know if there is any truth to this? and if so does this make the bolt weak?
AA contracts to have their bolts made for them according to their specs. Their steel, heat treat, and certain dimensional tweaks are different than "standard" 7.62x39 bolts offered by, for example, DPMS. If they were using a standard 7.62x39 and simply reaming out the bolt face, then, yes, it would make the bolt weaker. But such is not the case. The bolt is as strong as it can be without going to exotic metals and tripling, or more, the cost. AA uses a bolt face cut to a depth of .136", as opposed to a standard 5.56 depth of .125". This is to account for the thicker rim of the 65G case so that the extractor can retain relatively the same amount of "meat" in the claw. Compare the rim thickness of a 556 case versus a 65G to see why this is necessary. If AA's bolts are not the industry standard, they probably should be. With both their .50 Beowulf and 6.5 Grendel models, they probably make more "7.62x39" bolts than all the other makers combined. John | 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. | www.65grendel.com Seems like the same old same old from the Grendel boys. To say the AA bolt is recessed because the 7.62x39 has thicker rim simply is not true. If that were so then that means the standard 7.62x39 bolts wouldn't work in the all the 7.62x39 chambered rifles that they have been working in all along, quite well. The real reason I was told the AA bolts are recessed it to get rid of the tell tell circumference groove that is present in 5.56 bolts and it takes .011 of an inch to rid of it. Add that to the face depth that it was to begin with and you get the deeper .136 AA bolt. Bill A also stated that recessing the bolt face deeper also giving the bolt lugs more flex instead of breaking. My self and others are not buying that either. As far as the bolts AA doesn't make them they are contracted out and the same bolts are also bought by Lothar Walther as they will give you a 6.5 CSS chambered either for the standard 7.62 bolt or the enhanced steel recessed AA bolt. By the way the steel isn't proprietary because quite a few bolt makers use it. Come on John, let's get your facts more straight. |
6.5 Grendel FAQ (Page 7 of 10)
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