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I hope this is an appropriate place to insert a link to another manufacturer that is selling a new barrel: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=124&t=379097 Just trying to get the correct information everywhere so others can read and make informed decisions... Cohibra45 |
Guys, please understand some things: While I appreciate the impetus to "inform" other buyers of the spec on these barrels, let me tell you a few facts about Superior, S & W and Lothar Walther. First, Superior Barrels is a reputable industry parter with a good knowledge of the AR15 barrel, but they were simply left holding on to some of these Performance Center barrels that were the first run made by LW, for S & W. These were manufactured at a time when the 10 twist SAAMI was thought to be perfectly fine for the 6.8 SPC. Keep that in mind. Not everyone was turned on to the 11 twist, SPC II thing 2 years ago. LW now understands that 10 twist and SAAMI specs are not optimum when paired together. I have been in contact with them, and they are developing some very advanced barrel designs, and this is exactly what we hoped for. Please be patient and respectful of those still trying to make a living, even if they happen to be selling 10 twist, SAAMI barrels. In short, I want them as allies in our cause not adversaries. Understand? However, as you all have seen so eloquently put in this thread, the issue of chrome lining, and the lands and bore diameter in stainless and non-stainless barrels is clearly turning out to be a factor, too. I am about to test this theory when I get the M6A3 LWRC, the WOA SAAMI, and possibly some more barrels from LW. We are very early in the development of this cartridge and manufacturers are still trying to get good, scientific information that PROVES 11 and 12 twist are better than 10 twist before they go changing all their blanks. If you were in business you would do the same thing. Let's try to go a little easier on them and not bash them so much over this. I have been guilty of it myself, and I apologize to them . YES, I will continue to press them to change over to 11, 12 and SPCII or DMR, of course. But, I am also listening intently when some of them tell me that they have tested their own non CL'ed SPC II barrels with improved rifling geometry and land dimensions, even with 10 twist, and are able to shoot combat (and beyond) pressures. This makes some sense because relieving the barrel's ID, and/ or reducing the land height should reduce pressure more than one inch of twist. This is not my opinion, these are the laws of physics. I still think 10 is unnecessarily fast, but when talking physics, I have to respect its laws and that supports what these folks are saying. Also, I will attempt to do these tests in a manner which will be considered to be objective, valid, scientific and reproducible. Only then, will they consider me / you to be a reliable source of information upon which they might make decisions. If their 10 twist with no CL'ing and improved bore dimensions (maybe NOT like a .270 winchester barrel??) results in my being able to fire a Barnes TSX from it at 2770 FPS, with no pressure problems, I am going to promote that barrel. Of course, I'll still ask them to make a 1:11 an available option, but they certainly will have made their point. As so many have contributed to this thread: There are many, many factors which will contribute to the pressure issues seen with the "new, improved 6.8 SPC," and which will allow for the maximum velocity potential of the cartridge to be achieved. If we focus on trying to prove just twist, we might overlook things like Chrome lining buildup in in the chamber, which recently happened with very few of the Ko-Tonics guns. Is this the fault of Ko-Tonics? Of course not. This is an inherent pitfall of chrome lining and an issue that has been brought up many times over, but it just goes to show you that this small factor can even make the KT-68 spike pressure. Tim has (as usual) been right on top of the problem, and with his stellar CS, fixed this with no questions asked, so we aren't going to blame him are we? No. Just because RRA doesn't make an 11 twist ...yet....don't hate them for it, just keep asking, but please be respectful in how you do so. It appears you guys have and that is good. Steve, I know you will come through but please feel free to participate in one of our tests if you would like. I would be happy to have a RRA represented. Thanks, let's all carry on...together... I certainly don't have all the answers, but I want a 6.8 SPC that can produce 2800 FPS from an 18" barrel. I need more input from those of you that are experts interested in getting there, and patience and support from those of you who are ready to buy the fastest, hottest 6.8 science can finally deliver.  ETA: John, that info you requested is inbound to you via email |
"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
| I'd really like to see how a Noveske barrel with the 1/10" twist and SAMMI-1 chamber handles those high velocity loads. I don't think anybody has ever doe that test right? Maybe the polygonal rifling would make a difference. It's just that I've got a Noveske lower and would like to keep things in the family so to speak. |
I have not personally tested the Noveske. However, I believe that Constructor has. I cannot remember if he reported his results based upon personal experience. In order just to be sure, I would send him your upper (AR15performance.com) and have him ream the chamber to the "DMR" or "SPC II" leade, to give higher pressure handling and a little more generous throat so you can load the Barnes TSX and TTSX's a little longer ...like out to 2.30"  Noveske makes a great product, and after John Noveske donated his upper (from the 6.8 evaluation done by newARguy) to a veteran of the GWOT, I would never say anything negative about his stuff, ever, as I have tremendous respect for him and his quality products. All I can say is that, as is, I would not shoot the combat SSA stuff nor would I exceed factory max load specs, since it is a SAAMI, 10 twist and I have never yet seen one with these specs which will handle "combat" pressure ( I HATE that nomenclature, BTW  ) loads. If you extend the throat, you MIGHT be able to shoot the SSA combat rounds. Someday, I would love to see Noveske release a 11 or 12 twist, SPC II barrel. ( HINT, HINT )My hope is that someday, there won't be any such thing as "combat pressure" loads or ammo. This nomenclature had never, ever been used before, not even in 5.56 vs. .223. This is certainly not directed at my friend Art, either. He had no choice whatsoever but to call the higher velocity loads something different so as to avoid KB's n the M1S and DPMS tight chamber guns, and 9.5" twists. ETA: edited crappy spelling (pet peeve  )
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"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
| The Noveske were tested over a year ago and were having swipes and primer flow and cupping. i know there was something posted on here that is now in the archive. Remember the Noveske barrel are simply Pac-Nor poly rifled barrel blanks that John profiles and chambers. He does great work and that is not the issue. His guns and barrels are very accurate. If you look at the Upper testing his was always in the top 3 with the MSTN Douglas, Denny Recon. |
God gave us two ears and only one mouth for a reason.
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When Size Matters 6.8 SPC
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When Size Matters 6.8 SPC
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Been trying to read as much info in this thread as I have time for, so I thank you all for the shared info. Let me ask a couple dumb questions here. 1. In regards to an LMT MRP 16" 6.8 bbl. Am I correct that it is a 1:10, SAAMI Chamber bbl? I know it's 1:10, but unsure of the chamber. 2. How do you experts here feel about the carbine length gas system in the 6.8 MRP bbl? I have been told by many well known guys, "in the know", that the carbine length gas system is totally GTG, due to the lower pressure of 6.8 (in comparison to 5.56). What say you guys? All I know is every other 6.8 (except STAG) on the market is a midlength system. One other thing I know, is LMT usually KNOWS what they are doing, and I've NEVER had a problem out of any of their 6.8 MRP bbls. 3. What would happen if I shot the SSA Combat loads in a 16" LMT 6.8 MRP gun? Would I have problems, or would I just be taking a risk on hurting my equiptment, or would I be taking a risk on hurting MYSELF, and my equiptment? 4. What ammo would you recommend best for a 6.8 MRP? One thing I've wanted to do, is find a bbl maker, who would make me a custom 6.8 LMT MRP compatible bbl, with a MIDLENGTH gas system, and custom chamber, and bbl twist of my choice. I think you guys would recommend 1:11 twist, but I'm still not sure of which chamber you guys would recommend the highest? I mean, an MRP bbl is NOT much different from a regular bbl, and it would be super easy to make. Anybody know of anyone who has had such a bbl made????? |
Hi Razorhunter, I think I can help on all counts: 1) I believe that the LMT is a 1:10 twist, SAAMI chamber. You can easily find out by making a cerrosafe "cast" of the chamber, and then looking for the .50 extra freebore before encountering lands. This would indicate a "SPC II" chamber. If it is, then you MIGHT be able to shoot the SSA combat loads without getting ejector swipes. If it is the SAAMI chamber, you can do 1 of 2 things, based upon what you want to spend: a) send the barrels to AR15 Performance so that Harrison can lengthen your chamber to the DMR or SPCII leade. Very inexpensive and he does excellent work. b) simply buy a barrel from Ko-Tonics/ Cardinal Armory and have it installed into your upper by Tim. You can buy a 16" superlight midlength SPC II, CL, 4 groove 1:11, with M4 ramps for around $225. If anyone can do it, he can. 2) There is nothing technically "wrong" with the carbine gas system for 6.8 SPC. I owned a M1S upper for a year and it had the carbine gas and ran perfectly. The pressure curve is such that midlength tends to run most reliably with most of the different ammo and powders tried. LMT knows what they are doing, but with all due respect to them, it is my opinion that they are a little behind the curve, since they are still producing guns with the SAAMI chamber and 1 in 10 twist. I think they will come around, but they need more good info, and we will try our best to to provide them with that. 3) PLEASE don't even attempt to shoot the SSA combat ammo if your chamber is SAAMI and the twist 1:10. We already know this ammo is overpressure in these guns. Shame. 4) However, you should be able to shoot factory Hornady 110 grain VMax's and SSA commercial pressure loads, and there is nothing wring with these. These will perform very well, unless you are hunting feral hogs in TX, or trying to kill very large animals. Seriously, though with this barrel just stick to factory Vmax's or SSA commercial pressure SMK's, Prohunters, and Barnes TSX's, and you will be fine. Hope this helps |
"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
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Ok, thanks for the info. Remember, this is an LMT MRP, so the bbl is customized a little, to work with the quick change MRP upper platform. It's nothing super fancy, and I can (and eventually will) have custom bbls made for it, but what I'm saying is that I can't just buy a Kotonics bbl and slap it in an MRP upper. I wouldn't have wanted to do so anyhow. In regards to the other following option you suggested: "send the barrels to AR15 Performance so that Harrison can lengthen your chamber to the DMR or SPCII leade. Very inexpensive and he does excellent work." -How does this "lengthening/modifying/cutting" of a new chamber, affect the chrome lining in my bbl? Does it remove any of the existing chrome, OR does the newly cut part of the chamber just not have chrome lining or what? Is that recommendation ONLY something that can be done with a stainless bbl, which does not have chrome lining? I would think it might not be the greatest idea, since there wouldn't be any chrome lining on the newly cut part of the chamber, no??? This is something I've always wondered about anyhow, so I'm very curious to hear your reply to this issue. Thank you sir! |
Unfortunately, you are correct that attempting to lengthen the leade of a chrome lined chamber will result in exposure of the most sensitive area of the bore....the throat.... to worsened erosion. I was thinking that you would buy a stainless blank and send it to him. He will modify the stainless barrel for you, but since you bought the MRP, you are probably stuck with that SAAMI, Chrome Moly 1:10 barrel. If you want to buy a Pac-Nor blank in 1:11, you can send that to Harrison, and see if he can machine it to fit your MRP. Just call him and see if he can help. He's a great guy. Tell him you spoke to "Chris" about it. |
"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
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Razorhunter, I have an LMT CQB MRP piston on order and should be here the end of the month!!! I plan on sending my complete upper to Harrison and have him build me a barrel for my MRP system upper. We have talked already and I have complete confidence in having him 'build' me a barrel for my piston rifle. It will be a little more expensive than going with LMTs barrels, but I will get what I want instead of listening to LMT marketing telling me to not shoot SSA ammo...If you are worried about your CL barrel, talk with Harrison...Here is a link to his site: www.ar15performance.com/ Take care |
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Ok thanks guys. I too will be contacting Harrison for a custom bbl with either the DMR or SPC II chamber in a 6.8 bbl. I don't know if there is a chrome lined option, but I might just go with a SS bbl. Does anyone have an opinion on whether I should go with the DMR chamber or the SPC II chamber? I'm thinking SPCII chamber, just because I've heard and read more about it. (as you see, my choice is not based on any scientific evidence!) That is why I ask you guys, before I call Harrison. Thanks. |
The only real difference in SPC II and DMR is the length of the leade, and slightly more "snug" leade diameter of the DMR. The SPC II is just a little longer. The idea is the the DMR gives more leade than the SAAMI, so it gives pressure reduction while still allowing bullets to be near enough the lands, and diameter to be snug around the bullet's ogive to reduce yaw and enhance accuracy. It is up to you, but if you are looking for a "tack driver," the conventional wisdom seems to be to go with the DMR chamber. (this is similar to the .223 Wylde chamber) Here are the dimensions: *----------------------new case---resized case ----SAAMI---------SPCII---------DMR base dia. ********** .4155*****.418******* .422****** .422 *******.4205 shoulder dia. *******.402***** .402 *********.4028*****.4028 *****.403 neck @ shoulder dia***301 **** 301 **********.3085**** .3085 ***** .305 neck @ throat dia **** .301 *****.301*********.307 *****.308 ****** .304 leade dia. ********************************.2781******.2781 **** .277 length of leade **************************** .064**** *.105 ****** .095 |
"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
I believe that there is one other difference between the Spec II and DMR. Harrison mentioned that the angle (throat angle?) is 30 degrees in the DMR and is sharper (45 degrees?) in the Spec II. I could be wrong, but I do remember that there is an angle difference between the two. Maybe TimW could chime in. Cohibra45 |
Kelly, Excellent point and good catch! You are exactly right. I left that out as it isn't included in the above dimensions. The 30 degree shoulder is a slightly less acutely tapered "forcing cone" and puts less initial stress on the bullet as it leaves the case mouth and enters the lands. This can reduce bullet yaw. If you notice, the leade diameter is .277 on the DMR, and thus is the same diameter as the bullet. So, the angle of the shoulder can be less acute since there is less of a step down from .2781 to ,.277, as is the case with the SPC II and the SAAMI chamber diameter. *the SAAMI crams the bullet into a .064" 45deg. forcing cone = higher pressure *SPC II gives the bullet more time to transition to the lands, ie .100" but it still encounters 45deg. of cone = some theorize that the ogive knocks against the wall of the cone just a bit = yaw and more time needed to stabilize? *DMR starts the bullet out right around bore diameter, and the cone down to "land diameter" is only 30deg. = less bullet banging around the forcing cone walls = less yaw = bullet goes to sleep faster and has a bit more time to stabilize. Thanks!
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"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
| HTR has it. In speaking at length with Constructor what he did was to teak the chamber so that it gave the best chance of the bullet going straight (not canting) the case and bullet being as aligned as possible with the bores center line without effecting practical reliability. With leade length (what others tend to call the throat) It was set to allow the largest selection of bullets to achieve a .020" minimum from the lands while still being inside the mag length. Lastly to make the transition as smooth as possible. The other thing that I like about this is with the leade tighter to begin with as the throat does erode it will have a loner accuracy life then one that is starting larger to begin with. Now in a True Mil all out combat build the extra room along with the CL maybe preferred so as to give more room for crude etc build up and still function. Kind of what you see with the dif between the 5.56 and the Wylde chambers. Also when you consider the build up etc that can happen with CL if not done carefully the extra tolerance may be a good thing to give it a bit more room for it. One thing for sure if I was getting a match or any other non-CL barrel it would have a DMR chamber in it. |
God gave us two ears and only one mouth for a reason.
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When Size Matters 6.8 SPC
http://www.68forums.com
When Size Matters 6.8 SPC
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Guys, As some of you may know, I too am very interested in this entire SAAMI chamber/1:10 issue. My specific interest stems from my attempts to find what ammo I can shoot/should shoot, in my LMT MRP 6.8 bbl, which is a 16" SAAMI/1:10 bbl. I would like to make it CLEAR that in no way is this an attempt to bash such a great company as LMT. I am simply trying to find out what ammo I CAN shoot safely, to get as good a performance as possible. I spoke with LMT just this past week, and I actually had this conversation with TWO LMT employees. Unfortunately, neither of them were very knowledgeable about this subject, but I have to say they were not supposed to be, as they were customer service reps. However, they seemed quite sure about the info that they did share with me. I had asked them about their SAAMI chambers, and 1:10 twist, and what they thought about shooting combat loads/high pressure loads, and the following are the EXACT statements they made to me, to my disappointment of course: 1. "LMT worked CLOSELY with Hornady doing MUCH testing in this field, regarding chambers, bbl twist/etc" "LMT also worked with the military". 2. "LMT recommends Hornady 6.8spc V-Max ammo, the sku # is 8346 for the exact load." -LMT was unsure of the exact name of this ammo, as they couldn't find their reference sheets, but they told me the Hornady sku# above, which is the ammo they recommend. I had asked about shooting Hornady 6.8 TAP, and to my SURPRISE and disappointment, LMT said: (and I quote): 3. "LMT would NEVER recommend TAP, because there is no way to guarantee TAP working" WHY? (I asked) 4. -"Oh, well, because TAP is HARD on the bbl" -(WHAT? I though to myself????) The above quotes are EXACTLY what LMT told me, and I had NO IDEA that 6.8 TAP was a no-no, and I'm wondering (and hoping) that maybe this Rep didn't know what they were talking about? I told them I was talking about the .223 TAP, and NOT the 5.56 TAP. Still, they said it's no good, and "hard on the bbl". Can anyone confirm this? You see guys, my problem is that I cannot intelligently debate this subject with others, and I wish I could. I did tell them that many people are finding that the SPC II chamber and 1:11 twist, is what MOST 6.8 manuf's are using now, and I went on to explain that these SPC II/1:11 bbls CAN shoot all 6.8 ammo, and are NOT limited in what ammo they can shoot. LMT basically just kept telling me they worked "CLOSELY" with Hornady on this issue, and that is ALL they could say. I kindly recommended they look into this issue, but I doubt I made any difference. IF I had some solid info to send them, maybe I could help, but I don't know if they even care too much. UNTIL HORNADY tells them to change, I doubt they will. SO, I am trying to decide on WHAT ammo I can shoot out of my SAAMI/1:10 bbl for now? I may have another 6.8 bbl made up for my MRP, but until then, I just want to be CLEAR on what ammo I CAN shoot, and what ammo I CANNOT shoot? Is the high pressure combat load from SSA, and the 5.56 TAP the ONLY ammo I cannot shoot? (I'm not referring to handloads here guys, as I only shoot commercially available ammo) Is there ANY other ammo I cannot shoot? What about the .223 TAP that LMT advised against? Is this TRUE, or did they possibly make a mistake in telling me this??? Finally, what is the exact performance loss with a SAAMI/1:10 gun? I mean, by not being able to shoot the higher pressure loads, are we REALLY missing out on that much performance in fps/velocity, or knockdown power? How much more performance does an SSA Combat load, offer over other 6.8 ammo? What I'm getting at is this: My 5.56 M4's can ALL shoot the high pressure 5.56 loads IF I want them too. (such as 5.56 TAP, or any other 5.56 military round) However, I NEVER shoot those loads, as it's not really easy to get my hands on that ammo anyway. I would say that 99% of the time, I'm shooting .223 ammo, and I keep .223 TAP for personal defense ammo. I suppose it's NICE to have the option of shooting 5.56 NATO ammo, but not necessary. I want to know if this is about the same deal with the 6.8??? I mean, is there a MUCH higher performance increase with the 6.8 combat loads over the regular 6.89 ammo? OR, is it about like 5.56, where the NATO pressure ammo is only a couple hundred fps fast, and it's not really THAT big a deal???? Thanks for any help guys. I'm just trying to decide if I can live with my SAAMI/1:10 gun, OR if I would like to have a custom 6.8 bbl made, with SPCII or DMR chamber and 1:11 twist. Thanks so much guys. I really do appreciate the help I've received in this thread, and all the info some of you have worked hard to send out to the public regarding this issue. |
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Razor, Wow  . I am almost as distressed to hear this as you. I find it hard to believe that LMT (with otherwise a good reputation) would tell you that this expensive rifle you just bought will fire only one company's ammo, and only ONE load at that! I wonder what they tell LE agencies....NOT to use TAP??? WTF?  . Now, granted the Hornady Wmax ammo is great stuff, but I would never buy a rifle that was limited to one....just one single ammo and load.....never.All I can say is that the SAAMI, 1:10 should not be fired with SSA combat pressure ammo, as it just isn't designed to handle those pressures. The chamber is too short and tight, -and the twist too fast, when the chamber and bore are chromed. Apparently, LMT is afraid that their barrels won't even handle ammo that is "moderate" pressure," as the TAP isn't what I would consider "hot" ammo. That isn't exactly a resounding endorsement of your design, when you limit the user to such a small variety of choices. There are other, more advanced designs on the market that can fire the entire gamut of available loads, pressures and therefore give much greater performance. Do you honestly think it is appropriate for a manufacturer to build a gun, then test it with only ONE company's ammo, and only one single load? It is my opinion that if they had tested the other ammo available, they would likely have delayed release of the rifles until they could fire a wide variety of loads, and bullet designs safely. After all, there was one company doing that 2-3 years ago. Ko-Tonics. If you shoot commercial ammo, then any one of them should be just fine. Their answer likely is defensive, and based upon fear of liability, but that is just an opinion. You can understand why, if they really aren't sure what their gun can or cannot handle, they would say this to you. Your LMT is not junk. If you just fire Hornady Vmaxs, it will have better peformance than a 5.56 AR. But, for the money you paid, and given the lame answer you got from LMT, I can see why you would feel disappointed. I would be. The performance difference is substantial: -Hornady Vmax commercial pressure = 2550 FPS, generally in 16 or 18" barrels. -Handload Speer TNT / 30.2 gr. RE7 in SS 11 twist, 4 groove, DMR 24" = 3197 FPS  -Handloaded Sierra Pro Hunter with 32 grains H322 = 2770 FPS, without significant pressure signs in a SPC II, 11 twist, 4 groove , 16" rifle -Handloaded Barnes TSX / 29.5 grains RE10X (this almost identical to the SSA combat TSX) in 11 twist, DMR, 24" stainless, 4 groove barrel = 2796 FPS -Handloaded Barnes TSX 110/ 32gr. H335 in same SS barrel as above = 2880 FPS  I have already decided "which" 6.8 SPC I want to shoot. It sure isn't the obsolete model using a SAAMI chamber and 1 in 10" twist. If I were you, I would just save up some money and buy an upper with SPC II or DMR chamber and 11 twist. The jury is still out on whether any 10 twist barrel can handle these loads and produce such velocities, but in time we will know. Within 6 months, there should be at least 3-4 different brands on the market, and once the market demands this set of specs, then manufacturers will have no choice but to catch up. Believe me, the more progressive ones already are, and I am proud of them. |
"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
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Thanks for the info. I was unaware of the performance differences between the different ammo. I'm mainly concerned with mass produced, commercial ammo specs though, as I have no intention of handloading for max performance. I would like to be able to shoot ANY ammo though. In defense of LMT, I want to be clear that they didn't exactly say that Hornady ammo is the ONLY ammo the bbl can handle, but it was the "only" ammo they recommend. I am considering having a custom MRP bbl made. Unfortunately LMT is not willing to sell me one of the MRP bbl extensions, which would make life much easier in making a custom 6.8 bbl for this gun. Fortunately, I did not buy this MRP for the 6.8, but mainly for the 5.56. However, I would like to have an SPCII or DMR/1:11 bbl in 6.8. The LMT MRP bbl extension is not that complicated. Only a short milled slot in the extension, and a gas tube "guide ring" that holds the gas tube. I suppose it could easily be made by the right person. The bolt slot might be difficult to get at the right angle, but then again, maybe not. I would be interested to know if anyone has had an MRP bbl made. I too am interested in the Noveske 6.8, and wonder how it fairs with combat loads? I need to talk to John about this. Is his chamber the exact same SAAMI chamber as the 6.8 MRP bbls??? Is the ONLY difference the polygonal rifling? John is usually one to be on top of chambers, and issues such as this. |
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Hi-tech-rancher, Our Spec I upper will ship tomorrow AM, along with the target and brass. We will get our Spec II upper to you ASAP as well. We left the muzzle threads bare. Matt and I talked. Feel free to shoot them to destruction. Don't be easy with them. I'd like to get images using flash x-ray of the bullet as it enters the throats of different cut chambers. We may get insight into the dynamics. I've found a machine, but it is not accessible for public use. |
SPR, SDM-Match, Lothar Walther barrels.
www.superiorbarrels.com www.shop.superiorbarrels.com 678-437-7821
Every good man deserves a good rifle. That starts with a Superior Barrel.
Hard Blue: no other barrel lasts longer & shoots tighter.
www.superiorbarrels.com www.shop.superiorbarrels.com 678-437-7821
Every good man deserves a good rifle. That starts with a Superior Barrel.
Hard Blue: no other barrel lasts longer & shoots tighter.
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Where can I find info on these Superior Bbls? Very interested. Cold hammer forged? SS or chrome lined? Etc, etc. Chamber? Twist rate? Does anyone know if I can UNSCREW/REMOVE the bbl extension on my LMT MRP bbl? I always thought that regular/standard AR bbls, had the bbl extension PINNED IN PLACE with the alignment pin. Is this true? Since MRP bbls don't have alignment pins, I wonder if I could just UNSCREW the bbl extension on my MRP bbl, and screw it onto ANOTHER bbl, with SPCII/DMR chamber w/ 1:11 twist?? LMT is not being very helpful in this matter, so I need help from someone who might know. Thanks guys. |
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Do not swap barrel extensions. It is unsafe. Index pins are not pinned into the barrel threads, though I like the idea. You can read about Superior Barrels here. |
SPR, SDM-Match, Lothar Walther barrels.
www.superiorbarrels.com www.shop.superiorbarrels.com 678-437-7821
Every good man deserves a good rifle. That starts with a Superior Barrel.
Hard Blue: no other barrel lasts longer & shoots tighter.
www.superiorbarrels.com www.shop.superiorbarrels.com 678-437-7821
Every good man deserves a good rifle. That starts with a Superior Barrel.
Hard Blue: no other barrel lasts longer & shoots tighter.
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Thanks for the info. Why is it unsafe to swap bbl extensions? I mean, why would it be "unsafe" to use this bbl extension on another, brand newly made bbl? I cannot think of why this would be unsafe, but maybe I'm missing something, or overlooking something here? Thanks. |
| Moving extension to another barrel will ruin headspace. |
SPR, SDM-Match, Lothar Walther barrels.
www.superiorbarrels.com www.shop.superiorbarrels.com 678-437-7821
Every good man deserves a good rifle. That starts with a Superior Barrel.
Hard Blue: no other barrel lasts longer & shoots tighter.
www.superiorbarrels.com www.shop.superiorbarrels.com 678-437-7821
Every good man deserves a good rifle. That starts with a Superior Barrel.
Hard Blue: no other barrel lasts longer & shoots tighter.
| Well can it not be set back up with a headspace check, just as building a new bbl? OR, is there some reason which makes it impossible to be set back up with proper headspace on a new bbl? I wasn't really thinking about just screwing it onto another bbl and calling it "good". This work would be done by a qualified bbl maker. |
It is possible for a qualified barrel maker to put a used barrel extension on a new, never chambered barrel blank. What is your reason for wanting to do this? Edited to add: Hi-tech-rancher, Spec 1 barrel shipped this AM via Priority Mail, insured. |
SPR, SDM-Match, Lothar Walther barrels.
www.superiorbarrels.com www.shop.superiorbarrels.com 678-437-7821
Every good man deserves a good rifle. That starts with a Superior Barrel.
Hard Blue: no other barrel lasts longer & shoots tighter.
www.superiorbarrels.com www.shop.superiorbarrels.com 678-437-7821
Every good man deserves a good rifle. That starts with a Superior Barrel.
Hard Blue: no other barrel lasts longer & shoots tighter.
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Well if you've read my last few posts, that explains it. However, I'll explain it again. If you are familiar with the LMT MRP rifles, they use a proprietary bbl extension for their quick change bbls. They unfortunately only make SAAMI/1:10 6.8 bbls for this platform. I want to have an SPCII or DMR and 1:11 bbl made, which will work with my MRP. This would require using one of LMT's proprietary bbl extensions. However, I don't think LMT wants to sell me one. SO, I'm trying to figure out IF I can unscrew/remove the MRP bbl extension OFF OF my brand new/unused 6.8 MRP bbl, and send this bbl extension to a bbl maker, to have a custom 6.8 bbl made of my choice. The last 3-5 posts I've made (some of which you have personally responded to in fact), have explained this dilemma I'm going through. The proprietary bbl extension I have on this bbl MIGHT be easy to make, but I DO NOT KNOW if anyone could make one or not. Therefore, I'm trying to decide IF it can be removed and used on another bbl, with better 6.8 chamber and bbl twist rate, so I can shoot ANY 6.8 ammo I want to shoot. I would appreciate ANYONEs help in this matter. I'm sure someone has either had an MRP bbl made, OR knows of a bbl maker who could easily do this. As I said, this proprietary bbl extension is not really that difficult to make. I THINK it's EXACTLY the same dimensions as a standard bbl extension, with the exception of the custom slot milled in it for the MRP bolt, and the custom gas tube support/alignment ring. Just for the record, can anyone tell me HOW MANY of these "high pressure/combat rounds" exist? I mean, is the SSA combat load the ONLY load in existance, which cannot be used with a SAAMI chamber/1:10 bbl?? Thanks guys. |
I missed that in your previous threads. That makes a world of sense. I support you in your effort. I don't see a thumbs up icon, but Snoopy will do well.  If you want, please email a few detailed photos of the proprietary barrel extension. If you can include a know value in the photo, such as a measurement or next to something of know size, that would be very valuable. It never hurts to have another set of eyes look it over. |
SPR, SDM-Match, Lothar Walther barrels.
www.superiorbarrels.com www.shop.superiorbarrels.com 678-437-7821
Every good man deserves a good rifle. That starts with a Superior Barrel.
Hard Blue: no other barrel lasts longer & shoots tighter.
www.superiorbarrels.com www.shop.superiorbarrels.com 678-437-7821
Every good man deserves a good rifle. That starts with a Superior Barrel.
Hard Blue: no other barrel lasts longer & shoots tighter.
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Thank you sir, Will try and do, however, I do not have a digital camera at this time. Whereabouts in Atlanata are you? Maybe I could come out to your store? (if you have one?). Dunno, just thinking out loud. I've got a brand new one right here, and I THINK it's the same size as a regular bbl extension, just with a slot milled in it, and a ring around it, for the gas tube. SIMPLE as hell, but I don't have a camera. I'll see what I can do. |
I'm back, Art here from SSA been traveling on business way too much. SSA came out with Combat loads before weapons were even around to handle it, except for the ones we built in house and a few that went elsewhere. We came out with it to try to get gun companies to change to let the cartridge reach its full potential to give it a fighting chance within the military. When Ko-Tonics came out with their weapon system their upper was the only system that could handle it. We approach most major gun companies prior to Tim to get them to go away from the SAAMI spec's, without exception we were told "no way". It was this forum, Ko-Tonics and guy's like Hi-Tech and Constructor that made things happen now nearly all gun manufacturers in the "know" are now using the Spec II chamber getting them to go with a 1-11 or 12 is another story. LMT can say what they want about SSA Ammo but the facts are, with our standard load 115 grain OTM the three caribou taken last fall (with a single shot each) was with a LMT rifle, The facts are we throw our 115 grain faster than brand X can throw their 110 grain. We have more varity of projectiles - 115 grain OTM - 110 Soft Point Pro-Hunter - Barnes trible Shock - frangibles - AP'S - 90 grain Varmentor and in July 08 a 110 grain Bonded bullet. Be every careful with carbine length gas system's on a mid length barrel, it is a no go with a gas piston system, at least with the gun we tired. A pistom system reacts quicker then a DI system. The gas only has to travel a very short distance before it turns into a mechanical forces that drives the bolt open, whereas in a DI the gases has to travel the length of the tube and into the BC group and then turns into a mechanical energy to open the bolt. Therefore the pistom system wants to open the bolt sooner and as we found out blown primers resulted. The gas port location is like a switch to tell the bolt to open, the closer the port is to the chamber the sooner it will try to open with more pressure being applied to the bolt at the time of release, the result is more recoil. Also with the port closer to the chamber a high pressure is being applied to the case at the time of release, a tug of war is now in play, bolt trying to release with the case trying to seal the chamber. Pull makes on the rim or with our test blowing primers resulted. Art - SSA |
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Art, Thanks so much for the info. I had no idea an MRP was used to take the Caribou. Anyhow, I'm not so sure I understand the following statement: "Be every careful with carbine length gas system's on a mid length barrel, it is a no go with a gas piston system, at least with the gun we tired" -I am not sure if this comment is somehow directed at the MRP discussion I've brought up or what? As you probably know, the LMT MRP uses a carbine length gas system on the 6.8 MRP bbl. I have NO idea why they didn't go with a mid length gas system on the 6.8 bbl, when they DID go with a midlength gas system on the 5.56 bbl???? Maybe you can explain this? What exactly is a "mid length bbl"???? I don't understand what it means to "not use a carbine length gas system on a mid length bbl".???? What exactly is a "mid length bbl"???? Very confused by that statement. Please enlighten me. I'm just trying to determine WHICH ammo I CAN use in this 6.8 MRP bbl, and which ammo I CANNOT use?? LMT told me Hornady TAP is "not recommended", but I THINK the customer service rep that told me this didn't know what she was talking about. What's interesting, is my MRP even CAME WITH a Hornady TAP document, which advertised BOTH 6.8 TAP offerings on the document! I am 99% sure they made a mistake when they told me this. So far, it's my understanding, that the ONLY ammo that cannot be used in a SAAMI Chamber/1:10 bbl, is the High Pressure Combat loads from SSA (and of course any similar handloads). Every other 6.8 ammo on the market should be ok, right? Thanks for any help. |
Razorhunter, I'm a little confused now  ...Do you have an LMT MRP in the 6.8 or are you considering getting one? Like I said earlier, I have an LMT MRP CQB PISTON rifle on order. I understand the MRP concept with the quick change barrels ect...I also know that LMT only offers their 6.8 only with the SAAMI chamber and 1:10 twist. However, they offer the barrels in CR Moly and Stainless. If you choose one of their stainless 6.8 barrels, you can send it to Constructor at: www.ar15performance.com/ and he can rechamber it in a proper DMR or Spec II chamber. It will still have the 1:10 twist, but MIGHT be able to shoot any manufactured ammo including the Combat loads from SSA. You will have to talk with him. You can certainly shoot everything else including the standard loads from SSA which are great!!! I am going to go the route of sending my upper to him to have him make me a custom barrel in 6.8 for my piston. If LMT doesn't want to make/sell their 6.8 in the correct chamber/twist, then I will have to go custom. Too bad about their attitude. It seems that more and more manufactures are changing or at least exploring the idea of using the proper chamber/twist barrels. Major barrel manufacturer Lothar Walther is doing testing right now for their barrels and Douglas barrels even catalogs their 6.8 caliber barrels available in 1:10 or 1:12 twist !!!The word is getting out about this extremely efficient cartridge and the proper barrel chamber/twists. I would hope in that LMT will wake up and smell the coffee. They make some great rifles. I think that they are just swamped with military/overseas orders and are way too busy to seriously listen to us peons[://... In time, they will get on the bus or it will just leave them...Oh well Cohibra45 |
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LMT is busy, but they are not so busy that they can't call up Mike Rock, and tell him to start making bbls with better specs. (That is, unless LMT is actually cutting the rifling in the bbls, which I doubt, but could be doing I suppose) Anyhow, YES, I have a CQB MRP, with a 16" 5.56 midlength bbl which I'm TOTALLY happy with, AND also I have the 16" chrome lined 6.8 bbl. I didn't really want to have to deal with buying the SS 6.8 bbl, that was a whopping 18" long. I would have had to send it off to have it A: cut down to 16" , B: Black IonBond coated so it wasn't so freaking shiny, and C: have it rechambered. Not to mention (as you also stated) STILL be stuck with 1:10 twist. I bought the 6.8 chrome lined bbl I currently have now, back before I knew I was limited in ammo choices. I simply got on Noveskes and LMT's websites, and figured that since they were selling 1:10 bbls, then all was good. (as you know, Noveske and LMT rarely make mistakes, but I suppose no one is perfect, and the 6.8 is relatively new). However, I cannot lay much of this blame on LMT. I see Hornady being at fault (and this is what really confuses me, as Hornady should have come up with the exact same findings as SSA did, with the 6.8 round). LMT worked very closely with Hornady, and basically took their advice on the 6.8 bbls. I think I'll be calling up Hornady to get a few questions answered this week. SO, basically, I had actually thought of buying a 6.8 SS bbl, but at the time LMT didn't have them in stock, and I've also now decided that if I buy another 6.8 bbl for my MRP, I want it to be 1:11, with the proper chamber, and not 1:10. I too am going to be contacting AR15Performance about a custom MRP bbl. When you spoke with Harrison, did he confirm that he actually had SEEN an MRP bbl before, and had a basic knowledge of what it was going to take to make one? I'm very concerned about the custom MRP bbl extensions. They would be fairly easy to make, for a very qualified machinist, but I know for a fact that MANY gunsmiths won't have the skill, or machinery to make a custom bbl extension. I just don't see how many gunsmiths are going to have the capability to make this custom gas tube ring. However, at the same time, MANY gunsmiths probably DO have the skill and machines to make a custom bbl extension. I'm even toying with seeing if it's possible to re-use the bbl extension on my current NIB 6.8 MRP bbl, to see if it could be used on another new 6.8 bbl. Of course, with the proper headspacing set up. I have been meaning to contact you, to see what was ACTUALLY SAID between you and Harrison, when you discussed this custom MRP bbl? Did he just tell you he would take a look at it, and it MIGHT be possible, OR did he CONFIRM that he KNEW damn well what an MRP bbl looked like, and that he COULD INDEED do it? I was going to call AR15Performance (Harrison) real soon, and ask him these same questions, and ask him if he would like me to send him this 6.8 MRP bbl, to look it over real good. (that is, of course, IF he needs it). I do not care to send him my MRP upper. My upper is staying with me. He can have this 6.8 MRP bbl, but I need my upper. Hope to hear back on your conversation with Harrison at AR15Performance regarding this issue... Thanks. |
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As I understood your question and we found out: A carbine length gas system on a 16" barrel with a piston system were blowing primers for us (on the gun we tested). I can not comment on a carbine length system on a 16" DI system. My thoughts would be, it would all depend on the powder being used. The 6.8 was designed for QC use, short barreled weapons so the powder we use was blended accordingly. Interesting to note that a gun manufacturer sent us a weapon with a 14.5" barrel and they move the gas port around 1.5" further down the barrel over a mid length system. All I can say is "very nice" recoil reduced and the action was very smooth with no problems with all our loads. They did however use a new barrel design with no chrome and a spec II chamber but still with a 1-10 twist. It took everything we could throw at it, even a 30.7 charge with our 115 grain projectile with no pressure signs, its a piston system. I would really like to see this thing with a 1-11 twist. You guy's need to keep hammering the gun manufactures and we will respond to really make tis a great round. Art - SSA |
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Thanks for the info and uplifting words Art. I was just getting ready to ask everyone involved with this thread, on the best way to approach these manufacturers? I mean, I can tell them that SSA and a few other "guys" on the forum (even if well qualified, if they hold no title, I don't know how other to refer to them?), have proven that an SPCII/DMR chamber, and 1:11 twist is best, but honestly, that doesn't really seem to convince anyone. I even copied and emailed this thread and some other info to LMT, but what would be the BEST way to approach them, and help make this a reality? I'm just thinking out loud here, trying to come up with a gameplan. As I said before, from what I've been TOLD, Hornady needs a wakeup call, as they were (apparently) responsible for LMTs bbl spec choices in the first place... (or so I've been told by LMT). |
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Contacting the manufacturers should be done professionally and tactfully and they will respond if they start seeing a trend in requests from their customers. I started a request thread to Rock River Arms on their Industry Forum after exchanging a few messages with Steve at RRA about different barrel specs. They have the SPC II updated chamber already, but still offer 1:10 twist. Apparently they have chrome lined barrels coming as an update also. Anyway, we rallied the members on 68forums.com and AR15.com to let RRA know there is widespread interest in 1:11 barrels. Steve at RRA listened and agreed to begin discussion about barrel upgrades in their production meetings. This is a great step, and RRA will sell lots of these when they bring them to market. I will buy one myself. I spotted a 1:11 DPMS M4 style 16" barrel to go along with their 1:11 20 inch barrel so apparently they have done some research also. I understand their chambers may still be tight, but Harrison at AR15Performance.com can remedy a tight chamber with an upgrade to his DMR chamber. It is a campaign and a process. Even if a manufacturer decides to upgrade their specifications, they may have thousands of previous spec'd barrels in stock and it may be a while before you see the update. I'd like to see a LMT 6.8 1:11 barrel in one of their M4 style uppers too. Maybe we can start a LMT letter or email campaign also? |
PM me if you want and I will be glad to talk with you. Art, I want to personally thank you for your effort in bringing out the performance of this round. Yours and Tim Hicks over at Cardinal Armory along with Harrison, TimW, Paulo, and Chris and all the others (at www.68forums.com/) continuing testing have made a very good round into a truly GREAT round. We are beginning to see it's true potential as a tremendous hunting and extremely accurate target (well under MOA) round. Several persons are getting under .5 MOA!!! !!!Thanks again, Kelly (Cohibra45) |
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!!! I have refrained from posting in this thread; hoping some other than myself would post. Credit needs to be given to MSTN (Wes and specifically Paul); they were involved with Remington long before 99.9999% on this site was aware of the 6.8SPC program. Carry On. |
I didn't mean to leave anyone out.  I was just re-reading a little history (what I was able to find on the web) on the round and I didn't find anything on MSTN (Wes or Paul) working with Remington. Please, if you know a little more history of this round, please post it. I have only known what I have read in magazines and on the internet and if there is more information that needs to be told, please feel free. I am very interested in researching this great round. What testing did Wes and Paul do over with Remington? Did they test different power loads? Were they able to test different chambers/twists and if so, why did Remington send SAAMI such tight specs and wrong twist information? |
| They provided the range areas when privacy and security o the project was needed. They are very trusted in the community and for good reason. They also produces some of the very first 6.8 ARs that were available to the public. I don;t or at least hope I don;t have to speak to the high end quality of their work and parts they use on their builds as it is second to none. |
God gave us two ears and only one mouth for a reason.
http://www.68forums.com
When Size Matters 6.8 SPC
http://www.68forums.com
When Size Matters 6.8 SPC
Thanks TimW for sharing the information. I didn't know about their involvement in the development of the 6.8 SPC. I just wish Remington had taken the time to test more thoroughly the round and different barrel twists and chambers to see which combination would produce the most potential !!! The 6.8 SPC is such an efficient round with the right bullets, but just not with the longer and heavier ones used in the 270 Winchester...the same 270 Winchester barrel twist isn't even needed or wanted to maximize the velocity potential of this round!!! I guess it was 'handy' and available and being the same caliber size, that was 'good enough'. Too bad  !!!I certainly didn't mean to say anything about their builds or the quality thereof...They are truly custom and above top shelf!! |
| i don't really see fault originally not thinking to test the suggested 1:12 or 1:11 . After all the 1:10s were producing great results compared to what the performance that was needed and spelled out. Who would have thought it would have such an effect but then the ratios of the .277 bullet it can use are not in typical ratios. But after the info was out come on!! Where I do take serious issue with Remington is the way they purposely changed the chamber drawings to castrate the round and made it so the round was actually dangerous. I don't care what your personal agendas are to endanger the public just because of sour grapes is libelous and quite unprofessional and childish. Then to come out with a 1:9 twist in there 700 model and set it up with a long easy barrel and short chamber? What were they planning on stabilizing, a 1.5" bullets? |
God gave us two ears and only one mouth for a reason.
http://www.68forums.com
When Size Matters 6.8 SPC
http://www.68forums.com
When Size Matters 6.8 SPC
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Guys, I finally called up Hornady to discuss this issue with my "limited knowledge" last week. I was simply calling them in regards to LMT having previously told me that they had "worked close with Hornady to develop their bbl configuration for the 6.8". (For anyone who doesn't know, the LMT bbls still use the standard SAAMI chamber and 1:10 twist ratio). Fortunately, Hornady totally agreed with the info in this thread, and they confirmed everything this threads testing has shown. The guy I spoke with, didn't comment on LMT's bbls, and their previous testing, but who knows if he even had any previous dealings with LMT, or even knew about it". Anyhow, I think the only thing that is needed, is to get Hornady to actually convey this message to LMT, or have someone qualified do it. Unfortunately, a single person like myself has no pull with LMT. I wish we had some kind of petition, or info packet that we could send companies like LMT, who still haven't made the needed changes to their 6.8 bbl configuration. I know LMT would sell a LOT more 6.8 equiptment, if they were on par with recent findings. Just wish I could do more about it. If they WOULD begin making the bbl config change, they WOULD be one of the few 6.8 manuf's out there actually making a weapon to my desired specs. They are using the 4150 steel, everything else on their weapons is already made to TDP/Mil specifications, and we'd just be good to go. |
I am very happy to hear that. I think that our future test, which is scheduled to take place on August 8th and 9th, will shed even more light on this subject. Moreover, we have addressed some of the weaknesses of the previous test, which should result in more solid scientific information, if not some conclusions. Once that is available to these manufacturers, and with the support of people like those at Hornady, I think things will definitely change. |
"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
Tim, they (MSTN) went well beyond that. All of my "early" 6.8s from MSTN are Douglas SS 1:11 barrels. I no longer buy anything that has the Remington label. Their management meaning 'Remington have done their best to sabotage" the 6.8. Motivative, unknown. I also have two MRPs both with 1:10 have shoot sub-MOA with the Hornaday 110 OTM. It is only my most recent Hornaday purchase that has had accuracy issues of best case 1.5MOA. Hornaday seems to be addressing that issue. I order by the case/lot with 5 as a minium. I have 10 cases of SSA that is to be delivered this week. I am trying to get the BH loading; but it is like getting the MK262; the .mil is sucking all production. |
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pcurtis, "BH's Loading"???? Tell me more about this! I did not know BH's even had a 6.8 load, or was working on one? Tell me more about your 6.8 MRP bbls??? I assume they are both SS 6.8 MRP bbls??? If so, are they both 18", or did you cut them down, or luck up and get one of the shorter 16" 6.8 SS bbls LMT did way back in the beginning??? Finally, what do you mean by "Hornady 110 OTM"??? Which exact 6.8 round from Hornady are you referring to?? LMT sent a Hornady product advertisement sheet with my 6.8 MRP bbl, and it shows TWO 6.8 loads as follows: Item # 83465 "6.8 SPC TAP Urban" -(these have red polymer/ballistic tips) -AND- Item # 81465 "6.8 SPC BTHP TAP" BOTH of these 6.8 TAP rounds from Hornady look to be good rounds. BOTH ballistic charts for these rounds, show "2550fps" at the muzzle out of a "16 1:10 twist Barrel", as it says on the box. I realize these are not +P/Combat rounds (like the particular SSA round), but I WONDER if Hornady would now recommend the 1:11 as a better twist rate for these rounds? I have always heard talk of a Hornady "6.8 V-Max" round, but I've not seen ANY other 6.8 round from Hornady, OTHER THAN the TWO TAP rounds listed above. ????? Can you shed a little light on the above? I am currently in the huge debate of deciding if I should either get rid of this 6.8 MRP, and find another 6.8 gun that can handle the combat loads (for max performance), OR if I should keep this MRP and be happy? It's a super nice gun, and I know it will shoot 99% of the 6.8 ammo on the market, but somehow 600+ fps MORE out of a 6.8 +P/combat load sounds mighty enticing. (If only I the LMT had the SPCII/DMR chamber, and 1:11 twist)... Hell, IF ONLY the Noveske 6.8 bbl had the improved chamber and 1:11 twist.... I think the 6.8 would REALLY begin to take off if these two companies would catch up with the new chambers and twist rates. The market is DYING for a "Milspec" like 6.8 weapon to finally be built with the proper bbl specs/materials. |
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Razor, I can answer your questions:
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"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
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Hi Tech, Always a joy to read your replies my friend. As you can see, I have no real hardcore evidence to back up the "600fps increase", but I once asked everyone in this thread (a few pages back), "How much performance am I losing, by NOT being able to shoot the SSA Combat loads???". It's late, and I've got to go to bed, but I could have SWORN that the answer to the above question that I asked, was that the current 6.8 ammo is shooting 2500-ish fps, and that the SSA Combat loads are getting around 3100fps. Now I COULD be wrong, but I could have SWORN this was the answer given. (I THOUGHT it was YOU that gave me that answer, but I suppose it wasn't! LOL!) I will re-check this info again tomorrow when I have more time. It's late, and I've got to turn in for the night. Always interesting my man! |
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