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Posted: 2/1/2026 9:22:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: goer001][Edited]
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Are the 1-10x lpvos really giving up that much when it comes to 1x image and eyebox at 10x? I am looking at getting either a Vudu, Credo or Meprolight MVO. I am concerned that the 10x is pushing the limits, but I have never used one. Has anyone got rid of a 1-10 for a 1-8? Any regrets of getting a 1-10x? Meprolight claims they did not make a 1-10x because they could not build it without many drawbacks. |
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I sold a couple of 1-8’s and replaced with 1-6’s. I have a couple of 1-8’s for specialized roles. For practical accuracy on realistic targets out to about 600 yards a 6X is just fine. Hell, one of my go-to AR’s has an old 1-4 Steiner Military on it and I don’t feel like I’m missing anything. |
Point shooting will give you monkeypox. - John_Wayne777
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns.
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns.
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Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: I sold a couple of 1-8’s and replaced with 1-6’s. I have a couple of 1-8’s for specialized roles. For practical accuracy on realistic targets out to about 600 yards a 6X is just fine. Hell, one of my go-to AR’s has an old 1-4 Steiner Military on it and I don’t feel like I’m missing anything. Depends on the usage. I shoot at a range, mostly. Set up a 308 AR for elk hunting and went with a good 1x6. Great optic for hunting but I replaced it with a 1x10. Bigger, heavier and better optic for 99.9% of my shots, which are at the range. It lets me easily pick up steel that has had all the paint blasted off. No, they won’t go cold range to give me an hour to hump up there with some paint. These things are all over the side of the mountain. 10x lets me find them, but I would likely never be using 10x hunting. Attached File I wasn’t sure how I would like a 1x10 so I didn’t go $$$. Turns out Griffin is selling a 34mm one, it was under 500 when I bought. Import for sure, excellent optic definitely. I would buy another. Went with their 34mm mount too. Attached File Yes, the eyebox is tighter than my lower power stuff at 10x. Not really an issue for me. |
If life was easy nobody would quit.
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Originally Posted By DVCER: Depends on the usage. I shoot at a range, mostly. Set up a 308 AR for elk hunting and went with a good 1x6. Great optic for hunting but I replaced it with a 1x10. Bigger, heavier and better optic for 99.9% of my shots, which are at the range. It lets me easily pick up steel that has had all the paint blasted off. No, they won’t go cold range to give me an hour to hump up there with some paint. These things are all over the side of the mountain. 10x lets me find them, but I would likely never be using 10x hunting. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/857/IMG_0812_png-3705788.JPG I wasn’t sure how I would like a 1x10 so I didn’t go $$$. Turns out Griffin is selling a 34mm one, it was under 500 when I bought. Import for sure, excellent optic definitely. I would buy another. Went with their 34mm mount too. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/857/IMG_0527_jpeg-3705793.JPG Yes, the eyebox is tighter than my lower power stuff at 10x. Not really an issue for me. I think a 2/2.5-10 or a 3-9 is far superior for hunting when it comes to light transmission. For the OP, I really liked the Razor 1-10 on a 14.5, but it’s very heavy and the eye box is definitely tight at 10. Check out the PLXC 1-8, which is a fantastic LPVO and one of the best values out there. |
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Originally Posted By bluedog82: Check out the PLXC 1-8, which is a fantastic LPVO and one of the best values out there. The SFP Nova version is currently $1k but they were on sale for $750 last week |
“Necessary? Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No, but I do it anyway because it’s sterile and I like the taste.” -Patches O’Houlihan
2023/24 Arfcom FPL Champion
2023/24 Arfcom FPL Champion
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The difference between 8x and 10x at the top end isn't huge but it's nice when you're shooting over 600 yds. The Razor 1-10 is a popular option for DMR matches out to 800 for General Purpose class. It's also a good option for 3-gun matches that shoot out to 600. Having said that, I used a Kahles 1-8 for several years and the glass was so good that I didn't really miss having extra magnification. |
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Depends on the optic. People also compare a bit apples to oranges. A 1-10, at 8X, is often comparable to a 1-8. Same @ 6X etc. Sure the image starts to fall apart up there, or it gets picky in eye placement etc, but dial it down to 6 or 8 and it’s close. I have the 1-10 credo, and Vudu, and the Razor. I also have the 1-6 Razor and 1-8 PLXC so different tools for different jobs etc but there are definitely quality 1-10 optics. To me the question isn’t if a 1-10 works vs a 1-6, at tha point it’s would you be better served by a 2-10/12 than a 1-10. |
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I just built this thing from spare parts and some trades off the EE. It's just a spare 'General Purpose' rifle. I already have one with a 1-6 and one with a 2-12, want this one somewhere in between. I suppose my curiosity is: How the shortcomings show on paper versus reality. I know reading and analyzing technical specs don't always correlate to real world feedback like we assume they would. |
| TBH, I didn’t expect much from that griffin glass. “Good” 1x10s are 3x the price. I’m not any sort of an optic collector even with most long guns having one. I’ll buy one, if I like it I keep it. If not I take a hit and sell. Already sold the Burris 1x6 that was on that sfar. I’ll keep the Griff. |
If life was easy nobody would quit.
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Originally Posted By goer001: I know reading and analyzing technical specs don't always correlate to real world feedback like we assume they would. Objective / max mag = max possible exit pupil Is pretty set in stone. Between that and information on eye relief, I can generally have a good idea how it will feel to get behind when on the clock. |
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I have not spent a lot of time behind a 1-10 LPVO, but I have a Bushnell SMRS 1-8.5 and a PLxC 1-8. They do exactly what I expect of them. I am not expecting them to be a red dot, nor do I need them to be a Nightforce ATACR. Most of my shooting with a carbine is 100 yards and well beyond that. |
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Originally Posted By goer001: I just built this thing from spare parts and some trades off the EE. It's just a spare 'General Purpose' rifle. I already have one with a 1-6 and one with a 2-12, want this one somewhere in between. I suppose my curiosity is: How the shortcomings show on paper versus reality. I know reading and analyzing technical specs don't always correlate to real world feedback like we assume they would. It gets a little darker at max magnification vs 8X on the top end. The eyebox gets a little tighter. If your fundamentals are good, you won't notice it. |
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Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: I absolutely hate that optic Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: Originally Posted By Luny421: The SFP Nova version is currently $1k but they were on sale for $750 last week I absolutely hate that optic It’s not my favorite, but it has fantastic glass, is lightweight, and is a steal at $750. I would’ve preferred the FFP version but it was OOS. |
“Necessary? Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No, but I do it anyway because it’s sterile and I like the taste.” -Patches O’Houlihan
2023/24 Arfcom FPL Champion
2023/24 Arfcom FPL Champion
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Originally Posted By Luny421: It’s not my favorite, but it has fantastic glass, is lightweight, and is a steal at $750. I would’ve preferred the FFP version but it was OOS. I have a ton of optical quirks with mine. Ridiculous amounts of fisheye and warped images. I haven't looked through a second one to see if it's just mine but I expected more. |
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Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: I sold a couple of 1-8’s and replaced with 1-6’s. I have a couple of 1-8’s for specialized roles. For practical accuracy on realistic targets out to about 600 yards a 6X is just fine. Hell, one of my go-to AR’s has an old 1-4 Steiner Military on it and I don’t feel like I’m missing anything. This. Best advice I can think of is to figure out what you need, and try to find something quality that gives you that without any extra fluff. I’ve espoused the virtues of the Ranger contract Razor 1-6, and I haven’t seen anything that beats it for function, features, and ROI. 62gr BDC, wind holds, ranging, and still red dot bright. It offers so much, and asks so little. It’s only when considering the 1X ancillary that I can justify other options, and right now, the only thing that really stands out is the new PLXC 1.5-12 as a dedicated SPR optic. Low enough magnification to not completely gimp you inside of 50 yards, but a big enough objective to keep the top end from feeling like looking through a straw. Unlike 1-10’s, it doesn’t overextend itself with what it’s meant to do. |
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Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: I have a ton of optical quirks with mine. Ridiculous amounts of fisheye and warped images. I haven't looked through a second one to see if it's just mine but I expected more. Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: Originally Posted By Luny421: It’s not my favorite, but it has fantastic glass, is lightweight, and is a steal at $750. I would’ve preferred the FFP version but it was OOS. I have a ton of optical quirks with mine. Ridiculous amounts of fisheye and warped images. I haven't looked through a second one to see if it's just mine but I expected more. Its optics is actually one of the things I appreciate about it more. It’s certainly not the goofy reticle I like lol (actually the mil reticle fixes a lot of the silliness), but a lot of that has to do with diopters and individual eyes etc. And my eyesight definitely isn’t perfect. I had a lot of trouble adjusting my ATACR to look even close to as good as my PLXC. |
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Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: I have a ton of optical quirks with mine. Ridiculous amounts of fisheye and warped images. I haven't looked through a second one to see if it's just mine but I expected more. Same experiemce with me and mine is the SFP. ( For some dumb reason I thought the 1x would be flatter because of it) Overrated optic. Maybe you and me got duds because every shill on YT just about swallows them whole. I found it to be not much better than their cheap. Nova 1-6. I actually think I like the 1-6 better but I am going to put some time behind it to see if my opinion improves. Going to get a Steiner 1-6 and maybe sell the PLX later if my opinion if it doesn't improve. Glad I am not the only one that was majorly unimpressed with it. |
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Originally Posted By goer001: Are the 1-10x lpvos really giving up that much when it comes to 1x image and eyebox at 10x? I am looking at getting either a Vudu, Credo or Meprolight MVO. I am concerned that the 10x is pushing the limits, but I have never used one. Has anyone got rid of a 1-10 for a 1-8? Any regrets of getting a 1-10x? Meprolight claims they did not make a 1-10x because they could not build it without many drawbacks. I am currently using a Vortex AMG 1-10, and am very pleased with it. I prefer it to the NX8 and ATACR 1-8's I have used.Attached File Attached File Attached File There are, of course, some compromises when you bend light that hard, and I think 1-6 is the sweet spot for birdwatching levels of nitpicky here, but functionally, I am quite pleased with the AMG for the purposes at hand. |
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To me the 8x and 10x LPVOs all have an issue with tight eyebox at max power. It is a little worse on the 10x scopes. They both get dim at max power. The 10x is slightly worse. I dont think you can really make generalizations about 8x vs 10x LPVOs because they are all unique. I even prefer the optical 1x qualities of the FFP PLxC 1-8× over the SFP version. The SFP just has a more consistent illumination at the edges of the scope when you are off-center but optically, it is slightly worse instead of better like you would think it should be. The second thing I don't like about 8x or 10x max LPVOs is they all have full mil or 1/2 mil markings. Once you get to 7x and definitely 8x you can see and use 0.2 mil marks. That makes 0.1 mil adjustments easier to measure and use and I prefer 0.2 mil marks for all high powered long range scopes. 1-10x would have a big advantage in real world precision if there were some 0.2 marks that were nearly invisible at lower magnification but could be used at 7x and beyond... but they don't, so there is little advantage. The last thing is the dim image of 8x and 10x LPVOs. They almost all have 24mm objectives, with the exception of the odd rare 28mm. That just means the image is dimmed for 8x and even worse at 10x, reducing the utility of 10x yet again. If you want longer range capability, it is better to just go over 10x and get a larger objective diameter that does not start with a 2 and just leave the 1x behind. Then it is about objectives that start with 3 vs 4, max power levels from 12-20x and having vs not having parallax adjustment. For me, the role a 1-10x is trying to fill is better served by a bigger, more capable scope and I accept the loss of 1x on the bottom. I am usually trying to shoot MOA groups at the 1MOA bull of a 2MOA target, ensuring ALL my rounds are inside the 2MOA border but most rounds touch the MOA bull. For my eyesight, this requires 1.33-2.0x per 100 yards. A good 8x gets me to 600y... barely. It is MUCH easier at 12x. |
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Originally Posted By DevL: To me the 8x and 10x LPVOs all have an issue with tight eyebox at max power. It is a little worse on the 10x scopes. They both get dim at max power. The 10x is slightly worse. I dont think you can really make generalizations about 8x vs 10x LPVOs because they are all unique. I even prefer the optical 1x qualities of the FFP PLxC 1-8× over the SFP version. The SFP just has a more consistent illumination at the edges of the scope when you are off-center but optically, it is slightly worse instead of better like you would think it should be. The second thing I don't like about 8x or 10x max LPVOs is they all have full mil or 1/2 mil markings. Once you get to 7x and definitely 8x you can see and use 0.2 mil marks. That makes 0.1 mil adjustments easier to measure and use and I prefer 0.2 mil marks for all high powered long range scopes. 1-10x would have a big advantage in real world precision if there were some 0.2 marks that were nearly invisible at lower magnification but could be used at 7x and beyond... but they don't, so there is little advantage. The last thing is the dim image of 8x and 10x LPVOs. They almost all have 24mm objectives, with the exception of the odd rare 28mm. That just means the image is dimmed for 8x and even worse at 10x, reducing the utility of 10x yet again. If you want longer range capability, it is better to just go over 10x and get a larger objective diameter that does not start with a 2 and just leave the 1x behind. Then it is about objectives that start with 3 vs 4, max power levels from 12-20x and having vs not having parallax adjustment. For me, the role a 1-10x is trying to fill is better served by a bigger, more capable scope and I accept the loss of 1x on the bottom. I am usually trying to shoot MOA groups at the 1MOA bull of a 2MOA target, ensuring ALL my rounds are inside the 2MOA border but most rounds touch the MOA bull. For my eyesight, this requires 1.33-2.0x per 100 yards. A good 8x gets me to 600y... barely. It is MUCH easier at 12x. With most people after some form of passive for NV even with a LPVO, I think you'll start to see more and more people go for the 30-42mm objective paired with a 2ish-10ish mag range and mounting a mrds piggyback or offset. |
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I just got the SIG MSR 1-10x on the FFP one. I like it so far but yeah the 10x and eyebox is something to get used to. Even my Elcan, which has a short eye relief behaves better. The problem I found isn't so much the eye relief as it seems okay but the fact that if you move, even to the slightest, it seems to go dark and impossible to see. Personally I really like this thing and will continue to use it. I'm only using it at 3x-4x. If I could go back in time to when I bought it, I'd go with a 1-6x instead in the FFP. So far I have about 200 rounds out of this rifle, so maybe it's a bit too early. I'm really liking the 1-10x though but I would have bought something else to be honest had I known about the eyebox problem. Here's a picture of it! I just got this rifle Friday and I'm really liking it a lot so far. I just shot it again today and it's a great thing. Attached File |
| I have two 1-8 scopes, a NX8 and Trijicon Accupower, now called the Creedo. I find the Trijicon has a much better eyebox and a more true 1X. I primarily use them on 4 plus and based on my experience and use, I will look at the 2-10 scopes when I go to buy another one. In fact the next scope on my to buy list is a Leupold 2-10 MK5 for my 7.62 semi auto or the new EOTech shorty 3-9 scope for a 5.56 SPR I am getting ready to start. |
I was once asked to explain the concept of entropy....I thought about it and said: "You can't unscramble an egg...." 77Bronc, 1981
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Originally Posted By 77Bronc: I have two 1-8 scopes, a NX8 and Trijicon Accupower, now called the Creedo. I find the Trijicon has a much better eyebox and a more true 1X. I primarily use them on 4 plus and based on my experience and use, I will look at the 2-10 scopes when I go to buy another one. In fact the next scope on my to buy list is a Leupold 2-10 MK5 for my 7.62 semi auto or the new EOTech shorty 3-9 scope for a 5.56 SPR I am getting ready to start. I have a pair of 1-10 Credos but their 2-10 is a dandy little SPR scope. I think I’m up to three of those. |
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Originally Posted By 77Bronc: I have two 1-8 scopes, a NX8 and Trijicon Accupower, now called the Creedo. I find the Trijicon has a much better eyebox and a more true 1X. I primarily use them on 4 plus and based on my experience and use, I will look at the 2-10 scopes when I go to buy another one. In fact the next scope on my to buy list is a Leupold 2-10 MK5 for my 7.62 semi auto or the new EOTech shorty 3-9 scope for a 5.56 SPR I am getting ready to start. Not surprised. Nx8 is a 24mm objective. 3mm exit pupil. Trij is a 28mm objective. 3.5mm exit pupil. |
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I have a Vortex Razor Gen III 1-10 and I love it. The reticle, brightness, clarity, ease of zooming, just everything is perfect. Plus, it's pretty light still. My only complaint is that I wish that the outside stadia lines were larger for faster 1x shooting. I previously owned an NX8, and loved that except for the busy Christmas tree Mil reticle. I would lose my focus at long range. I prefer a BDC, but I know that's not the popular sentiment these days. I also have a 1-8x PLXC with BDC, which I like almost as much as the Gen III in a lot of ways. But the Gen III is still my favorite optic that I own at the moment. |
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Depends. On a lot of things. There’s no better or worse, just tradeoffs. Which is the better tradeoff? Depends. The 1-6 Razor is still the 1X LPVO to beat after all these years. It’s also inferior at range vs the 1-10 Razor. The 1-10 Razor has a bit of a picky eyebox @ max magnification vs the 1-8 Razor, but, probably. It’s @ 10X. Back it up to 8X, where the ATACR tops out, and it’s a lot closer to the ATACR. Conversely, the ATACR can’t go to 10X at all. Again, tradeoffs. For LPVOs, I’ve got, let’s see. 1-4 P4Xi, 1-6 Accupoint, 1-6 Razor, 1-8 PLXC, 1-10 Vudu, 1-10 Vudu Daylight bright, 1-10 Credo, and I’ve owned most other major entrants including both 1-8 NFs. Different tools do different things and it’s glossing over. A lot of nuance to simply compare a 1-6 to a 1-8. Price comes into play too. An expensive 1-8 shits all over a cheap 1-6, etc. |
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Originally Posted By goer001: Are the 1-10x lpvos really giving up that much when it comes to 1x image and eyebox at 10x? I am looking at getting either a Vudu, Credo or Meprolight MVO. I am concerned that the 10x is pushing the limits, but I have never used one. Has anyone got rid of a 1-10 for a 1-8? Any regrets of getting a 1-10x? Meprolight claims they did not make a 1-10x because they could not build it without many drawbacks. Glass quality can be more critical than max zoom. A 4/6x max with really good glass will be a much better experience than a >$1k 8/10x. PlxC is really just not very good scope to USE compared to a Razor 1-6. I would rather have a PST 1-6 over a PlxC 1-8 or possibly even NX8(yes, I have purchase and used them to 500m). High zoom LPVOs are really hard to execute. |
. It is more usable at 8× than 1-8×
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Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: I have a ton of optical quirks with mine. Ridiculous amounts of fisheye and warped images. I haven't looked through a second one to see if it's just mine but I expected more. Have you guys reached out to PA @MARSH1 @PrimaryArms ? I heard of people having similar issues getting a replacement and they were great. I have no experience with it but hate to see you all have wasted money. |
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