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Link Posted: 7/28/2005 7:18:55 PM EDT
Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005


this is great!!!!
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 7:49:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Malysh:
Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005


this is great!!!!



I never had a sig line before, but saw that post yesterday, and I really liked it.  Hope new-arguy don't mind.
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 7:52:48 PM EDT
Just noticed this last night old triangle handguards including 601's did not have the two holes drilled in the aluminum heat shields.  Top handguard is a newer one with the holes, bottom lacks them (only one hole in the picture):

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:57:29 AM EDT
I was waiting for you to do this.  I could see it coming eventually.  Great to see you still hard at work heh.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 10:45:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Thatguy96:
I was waiting for you to do this.  I could see it coming eventually.  Great to see you still hard at work heh.



Yeah, guess it was comming.  Still working on it, lot more work then I thought.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 1:54:20 PM EDT
Of course there is, especially when it comes to anything involving Colt.  I've found that out with the research on the series overall.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 5:24:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Thatguy96:
Of course there is, especially when it comes to anything involving Colt.  I've found that out with the research on the series overall.



Don't think it is any worse then any other small arms manufacturer during a war?  Take a look at Garands or Carbines, what a mess that was.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 11:21:55 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 9:56:33 AM EDT
Can we get pictures of the different upper receiver and lower receiver variations?


Link Posted: 8/11/2005 10:17:11 AM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:30:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 2:36:24 PM EDT by Thatguy96]

Originally Posted By Ekie:

Originally Posted By Thatguy96:
Of course there is, especially when it comes to anything involving Colt.  I've found that out with the research on the series overall.



Don't think it is any worse then any other small arms manufacturer during a war?  Take a look at Garands or Carbines, what a mess that was.


Colt doesn't need a war to hobble things together from parts on hand, and the Diemaco connection always pissed me off.  Now they simplified that one and simply bought Diemaco.

Furthermore their in house nomeclature produces a lot of confusion.  The Colt Model 639 being the prime example.  When the change was made the A2 style lower Colt assembled a number of A2 style guns using A1 style lowers, but stamped A2, also adding unnessecary confusion.

Now we're not talking stuff done by the US Government for example in this regard, like the original SPR prototyping, where parts came from whereever they were available.  We're talking stuff done at the factory by Colt, to create things that are outright marked one thing and happen to be another.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 11:36:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2005 12:58:54 AM EDT by Couch-Commando]
Great info! I was wondering if the grenade ring was standard on the origional AR15s with the duck bill flash hider. I've never seen one on an AR15 before.  ETA: Also,  did the 601 have a 1/14 or 1/12 twist barrel?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 12:54:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Great info! I was wondering if the grenade ring was standard on the origional AR15s with the duck bill flash hider. I've never seen one on an AR15 before.  ETA: Also,  did the 601 have a 1/14 or 1/12 twist barrel?


The rifling is still a point of contention and is part of a debate over what the deal between the 601 and 602 is.  It would seem extremely plausible that the 601 had a 1:14 twist, while the 602 had a 1:12.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 6:30:12 PM EDT
Ekie, would it be possible to use some of your images for a Wikipedia entry?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 11:28:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 11:29:38 AM EDT by Ekie]

Originally Posted By Lancelot:
Can we get pictures of the different upper receiver and lower receiver variations?



Yes, in time, just getting started, lots of work to do.


Originally Posted By Thatguy96:
Colt doesn't need a war to hobble things together from parts on hand, and the Diemaco connection always pissed me off.  Now they simplified that one and simply bought Diemaco.

Furthermore their in house nomeclature produces a lot of confusion.  The Colt Model 639 being the prime example.  When the change was made the A2 style lower Colt assembled a number of A2 style guns using A1 style lowers, but stamped A2, also adding unnessecary confusion.

Now we're not talking stuff done by the US Government for example in this regard, like the original SPR prototyping, where parts came from whereever they were available.  We're talking stuff done at the factory by Colt, to create things that are outright marked one thing and happen to be another.



Sure, makes it the more interesting, like a big puzzle.


Originally Posted By Thatguy96:

Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Great info! I was wondering if the grenade ring was standard on the origional AR15s with the duck bill flash hider. I've never seen one on an AR15 before.  ETA: Also,  did the 601 have a 1/14 or 1/12 twist barrel?


The rifling is still a point of contention and is part of a debate over what the deal between the 601 and 602 is.  It would seem extremely plausible that the 601 had a 1:14 twist, while the 602 had a 1:12.



Don't know much at all about the grenade do dad.  I do have a copy of the first Air Force AR-15 manual coming 50-12, and hopefully it will have details on that item.

In regards to twist, particulars on Air Force rifles are discussed here ( was hoping Thatguy96 would get in on that discussion):

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=242620


Originally Posted By Thatguy96:
Ekie, would it be possible to use some of your images for a Wikipedia entry?



Send me an E-mail at:

kmeklund@juno.com
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 10:48:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 10:49:43 PM EDT by Couch-Commando]
So,  did the 602 have green or black furnature?  If I'm reading this right,  the only difference between the 601 and 602 is the barrel twist. ETA: Is there a duracoat or other paint that's the same shade as the 601 furnature?
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 12:37:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
So,  did the 602 have green or black furnature?  If I'm reading this right,  the only difference between the 601 and 602 is the barrel twist. ETA: Is there a duracoat or other paint that's the same shade as the 601 furnature?



The 602 was the same as the 601 save the lower receiver markings, a 1/12 twist, black furniture, beefed up flash suppresor, light weight firing pin, and the windage engraving was moved from the windage drum to the receiver.

Malysh is currently working on matching the green paint, and has not got it down, yet.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 2:42:27 PM EDT
Is there a list someplace that shows who an upper was made by? I have an A1 upper, F/A no B/D, marked with a "P" and then an "M"

Any ideas?



Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:36:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lancelot:
Is there a list someplace that shows who an upper was made by? I have an A1 upper, F/A no B/D, marked with a "P" and then an "M"

Any ideas?






I think BR II covers that, and so does bighammer?
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 9:37:29 AM EDT
Ekie,

In an earlier post you said you were looking for pics of a C K marked upper. I have a milsurp A1 upper so marked. Apparently a fairly late piece, since it has a "chrome bore" marked barrel.  Darker color than the usual Sandstrom, but when I got it it had been painted at some point, and the black paint mey have darkened the original color.

The problem is that I have no way to send pics on the internet.  If it'll help, I can take, and send you, a 35mm shot.  Let me know if you can use it.

Next, a question. Did the Air Force ever buy any later M16s with the mag release fence, but still w/the smoothside uppers? The Rock River lower I modified to A1 type is actually a better side edge and color match for my smoothside upper than the A1 upper mentioned above, but I'm darned if I want to mill off the mag release fence and reshape the bottom edge. I've put enough time and energy into this project already

So if there are some A1 lower AF pieces out there I'll just use it on the smoothside upper. Otherwise it's back to the paint sprayer to get a decent color match w/that odd colored A1 upper.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 10:02:03 AM EDT
I did find a CK and a CM upper, and now have good pics, have not posted them yet though.  Thanks for check in with me on that.

C MP CHROME BORE barrels were factory original and also used as replacement barrels.  A factory original barrel would have the older sight forging, that is C marked with a bell, while a replacement barrel typically would have jibberish for a forge code.  Please let me know which your CK upper has.

Yes, 604's were delivered with mag fences.  For example, the tacky thread with lower receiver pictures you can find a 604 in the 4 million range, those were made in the 70's.  Also I had a CM forge code 604 upper with a C MP B marked barrel, that is circa early 70's.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 2:40:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ekie:


C MP CHROME BORE barrels were factory original and also used as replacement barrels.  A factory original barrel would have the older sight forging, that is C marked with a bell, while a replacement barrel typically would have jibberish for a forge code.  Please let me know which your CK upper has.




Mine is C Bell on the sight base, so I guess it's original. When I got it, we checked the throat wear, and it showed essentially none. Even though the upper had been painted, when I removed it the upper showed 99.9% original finish underneath. I suspect it launched more grenades than bullets, because it came complete except for HGs, and showed a few scratches on the barrel, where the rear mount for the launcher would have been. Instant blue covered them right up to the point that you have to look under a strong light to even see the scratches any more.

Thanks for the info on the Air Force pieces. I guess, for the time being, I'll use that lower under the smoothside upper, and hope that Colt 653 ultimately gets the early type lowers available. At that point I'll buy an early type lower to put on the smoothside, and repaint the RR conversion to a closer color match. Til then, the A1 upper assy will live on top of a Century (Conti built) A2 lower, which is a fair color match, if an incorrect profile.

BTW: Really admire your willingness and patience over what must have been years, to get the info, pics and items you've come up with for this thread.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 3:32:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2005 3:34:31 PM EDT by Ekie]

Originally Posted By shamayim:
Mine is C Bell on the sight base, so I guess it's original. When I got it, we checked the throat wear, and it showed essentially none. Even though the upper had been painted, when I removed it the upper showed 99.9% original finish underneath. I suspect it launched more grenades than bullets, because it came complete except for HGs, and showed a few scratches on the barrel, where the rear mount for the launcher would have been. Instant blue covered them right up to the point that you have to look under a strong light to even see the scratches any more.



One some "refurbs" the receiver is painted while assembled, they just slap the port door shut and spray the outside of the upper.  This type of paint will come off with a mild effort with acetone.  Stripped one last night, and the original finish ain't in too bad a shape.  Other refurbs are more carefully done in a thermal setting coating, that don't strip chemically.


Originally Posted By shamayim:
Thanks for the info on the Air Force pieces. I guess, for the time being, I'll use that lower under the smoothside upper, and hope that Colt 653 ultimately gets the early type lowers available. At that point I'll buy an early type lower to put on the smoothside, and repaint the RR conversion to a closer color match. Til then, the A1 upper assy will live on top of a Century (Conti built) A2 lower, which is a fair color match, if an incorrect profile.



Am sure that ASA will get those lowers done, would not make economic sense to abandon the project at this point in the game.  Have been cleaning up my parts kits in anticipation of these showing up soon.


Originally Posted By shamayim:
BTW: Really admire your willingness and patience over what must have been years, to get the info, pics and items you've come up with for this thread.



There are plenty of guys that know this stuff, but they have not taken the time to put it in a presentable format that others can learn from.  There are some guides, but they barely scratch the surface.  Was the same story with the AK-74.  With the 74 I finally decided that to get it done I would have to get the ball running myself, and Tantal was a huge help.

Like the AK-74 guide there are two parts, one is rifle description, and the other is parts.  There is a rough draft of the rifles now, and only about half of the parts guide is posted at this point.  The farther I get into this, the more stuff I find, for example there are four distinct variations of firing pins.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:48:26 PM EDT
A BIG THANK YOU to Ekie for this this thread, all your work and knowledge!

This is a Great Tool for the Retro builder!

I just learned that my Colt barrel has the chromed chamber only ,  that is has the smooth forged FSB and my handguards have the hole so they're not real old.

This barrel is in Pristine condition and well worth the $130 I paid for it. I now know what parts to get to make her like the day in which she was made. I just wish it had the chrome bore too, oh well.

Again, thanks for the hard work. Folks like you are what makes this Site Great!

Danny

Link Posted: 10/4/2005 9:49:04 AM EDT
No problem, my pleasure.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 2:06:24 PM EDT
dammit!!! looks like the only one that's still up is the ar-15 clone thread...


Originally Posted By Ekie:

Originally Posted By exocet:
great stuff Ekie. Is there a way you can post the links to your different AR15 pictures threads ? thanks.



The M16A1, and A2 clone threads are now in the archive, but these clone threads are still available:

AR-15 clone:

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=238213

M4gery:

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=231110

M4A1 clone:

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=229465

M16A4gery

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=234528

Link Posted: 10/12/2005 2:38:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 2:42:31 PM EDT by Ekie]
Link Posted: 10/17/2005 12:10:45 AM EDT
.
Link Posted: 10/19/2005 3:56:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ekie:
Eventually the variation guide will cover much more, figured I could start with the flash suppressor and the butt stock screw, and add the other parts in between here and there, here is a start (not covering Navy rifles such as the M16A3, or Carbines):

ArmaLite “duck bill” flash suppressor, this part was beefed up almost immediately after the AR-15 went into service with the. Apparently the tongs busted off:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/FHarmalite.jpg

Beefed up three prong flash suppressor, was used up until late 66 or so on late AR-15's, the M16, and XM16E1 (appears some early M16A1's also had them):

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/FHthreeprong.jpg

At about the same time that the XM16E1 was adopted Standard A as the M16A1 the flash suppressor was redesigned:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/FHA1.jpg

The M16A2 went into production with a new flash suppressor that omitted the bottom slot so as to decrease the dust signature created from firing:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/fhA2.jpg

Early lock washer on left, as used on the AR-15, XM16E1, M16, and M16A1.  Middle is the A2 peel washers used to time the A2 flash suppressor to TDC on the M16A2 and early A4’s.  Right is the current crush washer used on the A4 starting in 2000:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/washers.jpg

Early Colt’s barrels were made by Winchester and in 1/14.  These barrels had no markings, so no pic.

Colt’s first batch of in house barrels were proof tested and stamped with a triangle shaped proof mark, the barrel extension was marked with a C:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/barrelprooffirst.jpg

Colt’s made barrels were 1/12, the 1/14 barrel proved to be wildly inaccurate in testing conducted by the NRA, Air Force, and later US Army testing:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/barrel12.jpg

At some point in production Colt’s began magnetic particle testing after proof firing to find potential flaws in the barrel.  Early magnetic particle tested barrels were marked with an M next to the proof mark:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/barrelMPproofold.jpg

Starting in 67 Colt’s added chrome to the chamber.  Chrome chamber barrels are identified by a C about an inch back from the muzzle.  Barrels were proof marked in the same spot as before, but the proof symbol was changed to a P, so they now simply read MP.  The M & P can be separate, or ran together, and are found on either side of the barrel, upside down, and right side up.  These barrels were used by Colt's, H&R, and Hydramatic.  I have pictures of these, need to get them posted.

Chrome chamber barrels were also plated in the barrel extension.

Later Colt's chrome chamber barrels were marked C MP C.  The C means Colt’s, the M means Magnetic particle inspected, the P for Proof fired, and the C near the muzzle for Chrome chamber.  (late C MP C pic provided by yfs200):

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/barrelCMPC.jpg

Effective in 1970 or 71 along with the chamber the bores were chromed, early ones were marked C MP B.  The C means Colt’s, the M means Magnetic particle inspected, the P for Proof fired, and the B for chrome Bore:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/barrelCMPB.jpg

Late chrome bores were marked C MP CHROME BORE:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/barrelCMPCHROMEBORE.jpg

M16A2/A4 barrels are marked C MP 5.56 NATO 1/7.  The C MP marking means the same as before.  The NATO 1/7 specifies the rifle is designed for NATO standard ammo rather then M193 as used with earlier rifles.

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/barrelCMPNATO17.jpg

Late M16A2 barrels had a two digit code by the front sight base, this one marked 28.  Not sure of the meaning, maybe a lot code?

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/barrellot.jpg

Starting in 1994 or so an O is stamped by the chamber (some look like C’s) indicating a chromed chamber/bore:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/barrelO.jpg

Starting in 95 a date code is stamped by the front sight base.  First two digits is the month, second two digit number is the year, this one 03/02 (gas tube is yellow from full auto 30 round mag dumps, so yes I do shoot em):

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/barreldate.jpg

Beginning in the late 90’s a paint mark is added in front and under the barrel nut, not sure of it’s meaning:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/barrelpaintcode.jpg

ArmaLite front sight base was cast.  This part was used on the AR-15, and early M16, and XM16E1 rifles:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/fsbarmalite.jpg

The cast front sight base was replaced by a forged part for obvious reasons. The first version of the forged front sight base was smooth and used on later M16 and XM16E1 rifles, and on the M16A1 for a time:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/fsbearly.jpg

Later forged front sight base.  Used on later M16/A1 rifles:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/FSBA1.jpg

The M16A2 front sight base similar to the A1 but with a .750" barrel journal:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/FSBA2.jpg

The M16A4 front sight base is similar to the M16A2's, except that the platform the sight post screws into is higher, these are marked with an F on the left side:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/FSBA4.jpg

Front swivels were originally bare steel, and secured with a roll pin:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/swivelfrontold.jpg

Current swivel is rubber coated, and riveted on:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/swivelfrontnew.jpg

Early front sight post was round.  One 360 degree rotation equaled 5 MOA, one click equals 1 MOA:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/frontsightpostearly.jpg

Current square sight post.  One 360 degree rotation equaled 5 MOA, one click equals 1.25 MOA:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/frontsightpostlate.jpg

ArmaLite gas tubes were carbon steel.  These were used on the AR-15, and on the M16/XM16E1.

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/gastubeearly.jpg

Gas tubes were changed to stainless steel in the mid 60's. The bend up into the receiver is now in a different spot:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/gastubeate.jpg

ArmaLite handguard retaining ring used on the AR-15, M16, XM16E1, and the M16A1:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/slipringold.jpg

Handgaurd retaining ring used on the M16A2, and the M16A4:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/slipringcurrent.jpg

ArmaLite port door. This part was used on the AR-15, and early M16 and XM16E1 rifles:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/portdoorarmalite.jpg

Later M16 and XM16E1 rifles used a new port door. This port door was also used on the M16A1:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/portdoorA1.jpg

The M16A2 came out with a new port door that is still in use today:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/portdoorA2.jpg

Bolt/carrier groups.  Top is the early AR-15 and M16 bolt group, no forward assist cuts.  Later transitional M16 bolt group is not pictured (mix of chrome and parked parts).  Second down is the early XM16E1 bolt group, has added forward assist cuts.  Next is the late XM16E1 and M16 and early M16A1 bolt group, now parked (transitional bolt groups are a mix of chrome and parked parts).  Third from bottom is the later C marked M16/A1 bolt group.  Second from bottom is the M16A2 bolt group.  Bottom is the M16A4 bolt group, it is parked a lighter color:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/carriersright.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/carriersleft.jpg

Top three pictured carrier keys are staked with two strikes, some were done round, and other square (pictured).  Bottom three carrier keys have a more secure stacking method:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/carrierkey.jpg

Bottom three carriers are marked with a C makers code, this went into effect in about 68-69.

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/carriermakercode.jpg

Starting in the mid to late 90’s a step was added to the carrier right behind the firing pin retaining pin.

Right view:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/carrierstepright2.jpg

Left view:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/carrierleftstep.jpg

ArmaLite firing pin on top, current on bottom.  Old part caused slam fires, and the new Colt’s design was put into production in 1963:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/firingpins.jpg

Early machined ArmaLite firing pin retainer:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/firingpinretainerearly.jpg

Current firing pin retainer:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/firingpinretainerlate.jpg

The forward assist was first used on the XM16E1. This part was also used on the M16A1:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/FAA1.jpg

A new forward assist was used on the M16A2:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/FAA2.jpg

Newer A2 forward assist went into production in the late 1980's.  This part is still being made for use on the M16A4:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/FAcurrent.jpg

ArmaLite charging handle was cool looking, but was hard to grab onto, it was replaced at about the same time that the XM16E1 went into production (63/64).

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/CHold.jpg

ArmaLite bolt stop used on the AR-15, and early examples of the M16 and XM16E1:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/boltstopold.jpg

Current bolt stop:

photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/boltstopnew.jpg

ArmaLite edgewater spring guide. This part was used in the AR-15, M16, and the XM16E1:

photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/recoilold.jpg

The spring guide was replaced with a buffer at about the time that the XM16E1 was adopted Standard A. It is still in use. There are some variation in buffers, hope to have pics up later:

photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/recoilnew.jpg

Early rear swivels were bare steel, and retained with a roll pin.  Later ones were the same, but with rubber coating:

photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/swivelrearold.jpg

Later swivels are sercured to the buttstock with a screw, and are fixed:

photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/swivelrearA1.jpg

Swivel used on the A2/A4 are similar to the above, but not interchangeable:

photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/swivelrearA2.jpg

ArmaLite buttplate, was permently attached to the buttstock. Used from get go on the AR-15, and then the M16, XM16E1, M16A1 until about 1969. Early examples are marked with the ArmaLite logo:

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/buttplateearly.jpg

Later A1 buttplate with trap door for cleaning kit, intoduced by 1969. These are weak and usually crack when installed:

photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/buttplateA1.jpg

The M16A2 was introduced with a new stronger buttplate design. This same buttplate is used on the M16A4

photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/buttplateA2.jpg

AR-15 and early XM16E1 and M16 rifles had no drain hole, shown on left.  Middle screw as used on later rifle up though the end of M16A1 production.  Note this screw has a drain hole, and a compound on the threads to retain the screw.  On the right is the M16A2 screw, it is used with a spacer to gain length of pull, used on the M16A2 and A4.

photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/buttstockscrews.jpg



Great pictures Ekie.

Just curious - on those early duck- billed flash suppressors, what was the purpose of those backward folded tabs?
Link Posted: 10/19/2005 4:21:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/20/2005 10:32:21 PM EDT
Ekie, I just received another barrel with a 3-prong which shows slight machining variations from the first I have. Camera batteries died during the shoot; I'll post tomorrow. Looks like there are several variants among the flute patterns (including one or two in your previous posts).

More later - BT
Link Posted: 10/20/2005 10:42:56 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 10/21/2005 1:01:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OODA_Loop:
Ekie, I just received another barrel with a 3-prong which shows slight machining variations from the first I have. Camera batteries died during the shoot; I'll post tomorrow. Looks like there are several variants among the flute patterns (including one or two in your previous posts).

More later - BT



I look forward to seeing that.  Did you keep that XM16E1 upper?
Link Posted: 10/27/2005 12:18:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2005 1:15:04 PM EDT by OODA_Loop]
I've still got the upper (XM16E1) although I may use the 3-prong, and removed the forward assist as it was convenient for building something else (basically, got a large-hole A1 and barrel separately for install upon an A2 lower - SP1 slabside style!  

I'll be putting the XM16E1 upper in the EE later on.

I'll post pics later on of the two 3-prongs.  The one I removed may be used for an SBR XM607 clone if I ever get papered for one, the other came with my chrome bore barrel and is on it now.

Edit: Okay, added value.

One came with a chrome-bore Colt barrel, infamous private sale, the other is from the aforementioned XM16E1 upper.

First, off the XM16E1:  Note that the bottom of the flutes stop above the rebate, or whatever to call it.  

Next, another unit:  Note the fluting going below the rim, or rebate, or whatever-


Both units together. The presumably older unit from the XM16E1 is on the right, shorter flutes. Note the difference in the end - scalloped or dished crown is more pronounced on this unit. It seems like the flutes are slightly thinner, but this could be an illusion - no calipers, sorry!


A work in progress - the barrel is chrome bore, large hole upper, but the buttstock is non-trapdoor. It will probably get a chrome-plated bolt carrier.  All Colt at this time.  KNS takedown pin.





Link Posted: 10/27/2005 4:41:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2005 4:44:13 PM EDT by Ekie]
E-mail sent on the XM16E1 upper.

Will take a look at my flash suppressors and see if can spot those two variants.  I have a 602 upper, which is the first production rifle to use this style of flash suppressor.
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 4:20:41 PM EDT
Just updated the barrel info.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 2:21:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2005 3:08:01 AM EDT by gunnut003]
this is an evil thread:

now I want:

M16 clone

M16A1 clone

M16A2 clone

M16A4 clone

M4 clone (bushy '05 SEBR close enough?)

M4A1 clone



And thats only for Clones-
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 4:29:07 PM EDT
Great info!
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 5:00:25 PM EDT
No, this is a GREAT thread! Now I know what to do with my extra lower reciever. I ordered a reciever from a guy on another forum who is making his own and doing custom engraving and all sorts of shiznaz. The good bit is, he'll do whatever engraving you want BEFORE the type III annodization. That reciever is going to my carbine and my Stag is destined to be a M16 clone.

I don't want to reveal the guys name because I don't think he's ready for full scale operations yet, but I will definately post a report here when I get mine.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:37:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gunnut003:
this is an evil thread:

now I want:

M16 clone

M16A1 clone

M16A2 clone

M16A4 clone

M4 clone (bushy '05 SEBR close enough?)

M4A1 clone



And thats only for Clones-



Understood, the more variations I find, the more clones projects I start.


Originally Posted By 2manytoys:
Great info!




Originally Posted By Skyssx:
No, this is a GREAT thread! Now I know what to do with my extra lower reciever. I ordered a reciever from a guy on another forum who is making his own and doing custom engraving and all sorts of shiznaz. The good bit is, he'll do whatever engraving you want BEFORE the type III annodization. That reciever is going to my carbine and my Stag is destined to be a M16 clone.

I don't want to reveal the guys name because I don't think he's ready for full scale operations yet, but I will definately post a report here when I get mine.



Thanks guys, and do give us an update on that guys lowers.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:54:03 PM EDT
I hope this thread is a suitable place for this.  On another thread, I mentioned how my M-16A1 clone project went horribly awry when the large round Forward Assist plunger wouldn't work because it came into contact with my A2 style lower receiver's reinforcemements at the area where the receiver extension screws in.  It turns out that the large round plunger had to be modified by flattening one side of the plunger button, therefore the large round Forward Assist plunger is differert for A1 and A2 style lowers.   Following is a picture of the two styles side by side for comparison.

http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~tspahr/GROSBEAK/STUFF/fas4.jpg

Notice also that the A1 style is crimped together while the A2 style is pinned together.  There are all kinds of other cosmetic differences as well.  For others like me that are really caught up in the cosmetic differences of various M-16 parts, enjoy the pic.

My web hosting will not exist after January first, so I would ask that if anyone thinks this picture should exist here longer, please copy the pic to your hosting service and post a link.  I'll edit my post accordingly.

Thanks,

Greg
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:31:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GKielbasa:
I hope this thread is a suitable place for this.  On another thread, I mentioned how my M-16A1 clone project went horribly awry when the large round Forward Assist plunger wouldn't work because it came into contact with my A2 style lower receiver's reinforcemements at the area where the receiver extension screws in.  It turns out that the large round plunger had to be modified by flattening one side of the plunger button, therefore the large round Forward Assist plunger is differert for A1 and A2 style lowers.   Following is a picture of the two styles side by side for comparison.

www.cfa.harvard.edu/~tspahr/GROSBEAK/STUFF/fas4.jpg

Notice also that the A1 style is crimped together while the A2 style is pinned together.  There are all kinds of other cosmetic differences as well.  For others like me that are really caught up in the cosmetic differences of various M-16 parts, enjoy the pic.

My web hosting will not exist after January first, so I would ask that if anyone thinks this picture should exist here longer, please copy the pic to your hosting service and post a link.  I'll edit my post accordingly.

Thanks,

Greg



Saw that other thread, that is some good stuff, thanks.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:40:24 AM EDT
<Saw that other thread, that is some good stuff, thanks.

Thanks.

Greg
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 1:01:27 AM EDT
why is this untacked?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:41:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
why is this untacked?


+1!
I missed this thread the first time around (was on the road) glad it popped up again.
Ekie, super  job on this one WOW!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:49:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
why is this untacked?



good question

We need a Library Forum that holds the historical, technical, and noteworthy photo threads. I realize Tacking does this to some extent, but having one forum would keep valuables in one place without imposing on front page real estate.

Maybe this post belongs in the Suggestion Box

Until then, BTT.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 11:45:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:39:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:11:05 PM EDT
Early A1 port door with threaded bushing (I thought it was a roll pin before reading this thread):



Later crimped A1 port cover:

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:16:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 4:18:40 PM EDT by Ekie]
Great pictures, thanks for sharing them.  Funny that I shot port door open pictures just this past Saturday.

Don't think I would call the first port door an "early A1", in that the A1 never used that part.  Maybe they should be A, B, and C?  Think the FAL book labels the parts types with letters?
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