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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Titanium BCG (Page 4 of 5)
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I have owned a Titanium bolt carrier, so I'm speaking with a little more knowledge on the subject than most.
I would DEFINITELY wait for Spike's to bring theirs to the market, Tom is addressing some of the issues that a Titanium carrier has. He is sleeving the bore where the bolt rides, he is aware of the chatter issue where the hammer rides. I have FAITH that his will be right. Plus, he is going to offer his BCG with an S7 bolt! Three times more impact resistance than Carpenter 158 |
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I have owned a Titanium bolt carrier, so I'm speaking with a little more knowledge on the subject than most. I would DEFINITELY wait for Spike's to bring theirs to the market, Tom is addressing some of the issues that a Titanium carrier has. He is sleeving the bore where the bolt rides, he is aware of the chatter issue where the hammer rides. I have FAITH that his will be right. Plus, he is going to offer his BCG with an S7 bolt! Three times more impact resistance than Carpenter 158 What kind of chattering? |
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Aluminum carriers exhibit chattering on the underside of the carrier where the hammer rides, Tom mentioned that early on in the development of his Titanium carrier he experienced the same issues. How bad was the wear on your titanium carrier that you posted pics of? |
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How bad was the wear on your titanium carrier that you posted pics of? Quoted:
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Aluminum carriers exhibit chattering on the underside of the carrier where the hammer rides, Tom mentioned that early on in the development of his Titanium carrier he experienced the same issues. How bad was the wear on your titanium carrier that you posted pics of? If you are asking about the Titanium carrier I had, it did not exhibit this problem. I have had it occur on my aluminum carrier. I wish I would have thought of the idea Josh Aston came up with before I caused the chatter on the carrier. He came up with the idea of using one of the polymer hammers that are available in the FCG. |
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If you are asking about the Titanium carrier I had, it did not exhibit this problem. I have had it occur on my aluminum carrier. I wish I would have thought of the idea Josh Aston came up with before I caused the chatter on the carrier. He came up with the idea of using one of the polymer hammers that are available in the FCG. Quoted:
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Aluminum carriers exhibit chattering on the underside of the carrier where the hammer rides, Tom mentioned that early on in the development of his Titanium carrier he experienced the same issues. How bad was the wear on your titanium carrier that you posted pics of? If you are asking about the Titanium carrier I had, it did not exhibit this problem. I have had it occur on my aluminum carrier. I wish I would have thought of the idea Josh Aston came up with before I caused the chatter on the carrier. He came up with the idea of using one of the polymer hammers that are available in the FCG. Cool. Do you still run you Ti carrier? Have you had any erosion problems where the bolt foes in? |
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Cool. Do you still run you Ti carrier? Have you had any erosion problems where the bolt foes in? Quoted:
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Aluminum carriers exhibit chattering on the underside of the carrier where the hammer rides, Tom mentioned that early on in the development of his Titanium carrier he experienced the same issues. How bad was the wear on your titanium carrier that you posted pics of? If you are asking about the Titanium carrier I had, it did not exhibit this problem. I have had it occur on my aluminum carrier. I wish I would have thought of the idea Josh Aston came up with before I caused the chatter on the carrier. He came up with the idea of using one of the polymer hammers that are available in the FCG. Cool. Do you still run you Ti carrier? Have you had any erosion problems where the bolt foes in? No, Josh Aston is in possession of that carrier. When I sold it it was perfect. Progressive Tool & Machine who manufactured it got it RIGHT. They used a Titanium alloy that was DAMN tough, and they had it Ion Bond plated. Jerry Miculek was running one in his 3-gun AR-15 |
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First of all, am I going to have to give up all my ST-T2 buffers? I run them in all my M16's and AR's (I even have extras for any new rifles I pick up from time to time).
Second, I can't wait for the ST Ti BCG. Recently, I purchased the FIRST (serial #00001) Ti FA Uzi bolt. It has my Vector/Group Ind full-sized Uzi screaming fast with the buffer spacer in place or not. It's now about as fast as my fastest MAC 10/45 or 10/9 and that's saying something. I'm now a Ti believer. I think I've read the entire thread but have yet to get THE answer: What Rate of Fire are you seeing out of M4/M16's with this BCG? No promises, just observations as I know there's so many other factors involved. I've tuned my MAC's for years to get them max'd out, lot's of effort and $$$. And it's not all as simple as it would, initially, seem if you want reliability. Thanks for pushing the limits and the entire industry. I love having light weight hunting AR's, as well. I think we've all 'discovered' that the last few years. Way to go Spikes! |
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I think I've read the entire thread but have yet to get THE answer: What Rate of Fire are you seeing out of M4/M16's with this BCG? No promises, just observations as I know there's so many other factors involved. I've tuned my MAC's for years to get them max'd out, lot's of effort and $$$. And it's not all as simple as it would, initially, seem if you want reliability. Way to go Spikes! Back in the day when Rhino was marketing their Aluminum carriers, they advertised a rate of 1400 rounds per minute. I believe it! I loaded a C-Mag up and fired a 100 round dump out of my 10.5" M-16A1. The rate of fire was UNREAL! And even though you can dump a C-Mag normally with no issue, when you dramatically increase the rate of fire it places stress on parts that are not normally a problem. The full auto dump DESTROYED the gas tube! It warped to hell and gone. |
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Back in the day when Rhino was marketing their Aluminum carriers, they advertised a rate of 1400 rounds per minute. I believe it! I loaded a C-Mag up and fired a 100 round dump out of my 10.5" M-16A1. The rate of fire was UNREAL! And even though you can dump a C-Mag normally with no issue, when you dramatically increase the rate of fire it places stress on parts that are not normally a problem. The full auto dump DESTROYED the gas tube! It warped to hell and gone. Quoted:
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I think I've read the entire thread but have yet to get THE answer: What Rate of Fire are you seeing out of M4/M16's with this BCG? No promises, just observations as I know there's so many other factors involved. I've tuned my MAC's for years to get them max'd out, lot's of effort and $$$. And it's not all as simple as it would, initially, seem if you want reliability. Way to go Spikes! Back in the day when Rhino was marketing their Aluminum carriers, they advertised a rate of 1400 rounds per minute. I believe it! I loaded a C-Mag up and fired a 100 round dump out of my 10.5" M-16A1. The rate of fire was UNREAL! And even though you can dump a C-Mag normally with no issue, when you dramatically increase the rate of fire it places stress on parts that are not normally a problem. The full auto dump DESTROYED the gas tube! It warped to hell and gone. I know, this is why when i really want to run my 16's, I do it with Colt LMG uppers...biggest barrel and over-sized gas tube. Has Spikes tested the Ti BCG in an LMG? If not, I'm volunteering!  I have four of 'em including a couple of the newer flattop receiver models.
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Back in the day when Rhino was marketing their Aluminum carriers, they advertised a rate of 1400 rounds per minute. I believe it! I loaded a C-Mag up and fired a 100 round dump out of my 10.5" M-16A1. The rate of fire was UNREAL! And even though you can dump a C-Mag normally with no issue, when you dramatically increase the rate of fire it places stress on parts that are not normally a problem. The full auto dump DESTROYED the gas tube! It warped to hell and gone. Sounds like you need this iconel gas tube. |
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Back in the day when Rhino was marketing their Aluminum carriers, they advertised a rate of 1400 rounds per minute. I believe it! I loaded a C-Mag up and fired a 100 round dump out of my 10.5" M-16A1. The rate of fire was UNREAL! And even though you can dump a C-Mag normally with no issue, when you dramatically increase the rate of fire it places stress on parts that are not normally a problem. The full auto dump DESTROYED the gas tube! It warped to hell and gone. Quoted:
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I think I've read the entire thread but have yet to get THE answer: What Rate of Fire are you seeing out of M4/M16's with this BCG? No promises, just observations as I know there's so many other factors involved. I've tuned my MAC's for years to get them max'd out, lot's of effort and $$$. And it's not all as simple as it would, initially, seem if you want reliability. Way to go Spikes! Back in the day when Rhino was marketing their Aluminum carriers, they advertised a rate of 1400 rounds per minute. I believe it! I loaded a C-Mag up and fired a 100 round dump out of my 10.5" M-16A1. The rate of fire was UNREAL! And even though you can dump a C-Mag normally with no issue, when you dramatically increase the rate of fire it places stress on parts that are not normally a problem. The full auto dump DESTROYED the gas tube! It warped to hell and gone. You need to understand that this is a Niche Part and using it will decrease the reliability of the weapon under adverse conditions. You are removing energy from the system that might be necessary to overcome dirt and debris in the action. This isn't a free lunch. |
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Well I just ordered from red X I will most likely get a spikes also but figured I would try/check this one out. Also picked up a couple uppers from them. Put it in the scale today 162 grams with just gas key. 220 complete or 7.7 oz and 5.7oz with just gas key. So looks like the spikes with the material removed is 20 grams lighter. |
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Put it in the scale today 162 grams with just gas key. 220 complete or 7.7 oz and 5.7oz with just gas key. So looks like the spikes with the material removed is 20 grams lighter. Quoted:
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Well I just ordered from red X I will most likely get a spikes also but figured I would try/check this one out. Also picked up a couple uppers from them. Put it in the scale today 162 grams with just gas key. 220 complete or 7.7 oz and 5.7oz with just gas key. So looks like the spikes with the material removed is 20 grams lighter. Lighter than the Progressive Machine & Tool Titanium carrier I had... 
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I am wondering if Spikes will get to these. There's a rumor of shake up @ Spikes. Keeping my fingers crossed. I think, with that, I am going to end up with a Boomfab or Red X or St Croix for now. Tom is plenty active in the ST industry forum What are these rumors? |
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Tom is plenty active in the ST industry forum What are these rumors? Quoted:
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I am wondering if Spikes will get to these. There's a rumor of shake up @ Spikes. Keeping my fingers crossed. I think, with that, I am going to end up with a Boomfab or Red X or St Croix for now. Tom is plenty active in the ST industry forum What are these rumors? The only strange thing I've noticed is he is occasionally using a Ford logo instead of the Spike's logo. |
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Have to look at his latest posts, as older posts retain the avatar and flair they had at the time....
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_282/240063_The_ultimate_daily_driven_8_second_street_car__on_going_build_thread_.html&page=11#i2342802 There was a post the other night, since deleted, that didn't fair well for stability. Exactly the opposite of what I want, as not only do I want a Spikes Ti BCG, I have things on order from them and I am stunned by some of the developments to come out of their shop lately. The low profile sights, the new Compressor builds, the Ti BCG. When I came across these things and more, my first thought was they really really really need an updated website with these things. Only way to really know what they have is by coming here and filtering through posts. These new developments should be front and center on their website. |
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Have to look at his latest posts, as older posts retain the avatar and flair they had at the time.... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_282/240063_The_ultimate_daily_driven_8_second_street_car__on_going_build_thread_.html&page=11#i2342802 There was a post the other night, since deleted, that didn't fair well for stability. Exactly the opposite of what I want, as not only do I want a Spikes Ti BCG, I have things on order from them and I am stunned by some of the developments to come out of their shop lately. The low profile sights, the new Compressor builds, the Ti BCG. When I came across these things and more, my first thought was they really really really need an updated website with these things. Only way to really know what they have is by coming here and filtering through posts. These new developments should be front and center on their website. Unless it's actually ready to ship or pretty close to it putting stuff out like that can cause more headaches than it is worth. Precise reason Magpul has their canned response about new and upcoming products. |
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Unless it's actually ready to ship or pretty close to it putting stuff out like that can cause more headaches than it is worth. Precise reason Magpul has their canned response about new and upcoming products. Most of the items are available for sale. The new sites aren't even listed on Spike's website, yet they are openly for sale on Primary Arms & Joe Bob's just for examples. The Compressors are for sale, but all of the material on Spike's shows the original compressor builds, not the new billet setups. I know about these things because I spend too much time stalking for new products and updates, and maybe spike's is selling more than they can even make so they don't care. I still can't see making amazing products like that and not having them proudly displayed on my website so the world gets an idea of my capabilities and what I am up to. |
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Most of the items are available for sale. The new sites aren't even listed on Spike's website, yet they are openly for sale on Primary Arms & Joe Bob's just for examples. The Compressors are for sale, but all of the material on Spike's shows the original compressor builds, not the new billet setups. I know about these things because I spend too much time stalking for new products and updates, and maybe spike's is selling more than they can even make so they don't care. I still can't see making amazing products like that and not having them proudly displayed on my website so the world gets an idea of my capabilities and what I am up to. Quoted:
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Unless it's actually ready to ship or pretty close to it putting stuff out like that can cause more headaches than it is worth. Precise reason Magpul has their canned response about new and upcoming products. Most of the items are available for sale. The new sites aren't even listed on Spike's website, yet they are openly for sale on Primary Arms & Joe Bob's just for examples. The Compressors are for sale, but all of the material on Spike's shows the original compressor builds, not the new billet setups. I know about these things because I spend too much time stalking for new products and updates, and maybe spike's is selling more than they can even make so they don't care. I still can't see making amazing products like that and not having them proudly displayed on my website so the world gets an idea of my capabilities and what I am up to. I totally understand your frustration. Spike's Tactical is working on it. |
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The only strange thing I've noticed is he is occasionally using a Ford logo instead of the Spike's logo. Quoted:
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I am wondering if Spikes will get to these. There's a rumor of shake up @ Spikes. Keeping my fingers crossed. I think, with that, I am going to end up with a Boomfab or Red X or St Croix for now. Tom is plenty active in the ST industry forum What are these rumors? The only strange thing I've noticed is he is occasionally using a Ford logo instead of the Spike's logo. The Ford logo is my new avatar. |
| If Spike's titanium bolt carrier group is anything like their billet micro sights, it'll be an absolute winner. Their micro sights are like a refined KAC set of sights. I hope these carrier groups are due out relatively soon. It's pretty much the last thing to get for my build. |
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If Spike's titanium bolt carrier group is anything like their billet micro sights, it'll be an absolute winner. Their micro sights are like a refined KAC set of sights. I hope these carrier groups are due out relatively soon. It's pretty much the last thing to get for my build. 100% spot on. I am amazed by the design and engineering of these latest products from Spike's. Nothing else on the market like them. Pretty much an absolute ideal implementation making no compromises. I mean, Hollow Titanium Bolts?!??? Getthefugouttahur. That's unheard of. Keep it coming Tom, I am rooting for you. |
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RCA Introduces Adjustable Gas Key for BCG
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/04/foghorn/adjustable-gas-key-ar-15-rifles-new-rca/ |
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RCA Introduces Adjustable Gas Key for BCG http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/04/foghorn/adjustable-gas-key-ar-15-rifles-new-rca/ Interesting, although an adjustable gas block would probably keep your rifle cleaner right? I mean on an adjustable gas block the gas is getting vented out the front, where this is still venting the gas into the action. |
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Interesting, although an adjustable gas block would probably keep your rifle cleaner right? I mean on an adjustable gas block the gas is getting vented out the front, where this is still venting the gas into the action. Quoted:
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RCA Introduces Adjustable Gas Key for BCG http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/04/foghorn/adjustable-gas-key-ar-15-rifles-new-rca/ Interesting, although an adjustable gas block would probably keep your rifle cleaner right? I mean on an adjustable gas block the gas is getting vented out the front, where this is still venting the gas into the action. There's no reason to vent gas at the gas block. And adjustable gas blocks are a bandaid solution to a poorly designed relationship between weapon, operating conditions and ammunition. |
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There's no reason to vent gas at the gas block. And adjustable gas blocks are a bandaid solution to a poorly designed relationship between weapon, operating conditions and ammunition. Quoted:
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RCA Introduces Adjustable Gas Key for BCG http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/04/foghorn/adjustable-gas-key-ar-15-rifles-new-rca/ Interesting, although an adjustable gas block would probably keep your rifle cleaner right? I mean on an adjustable gas block the gas is getting vented out the front, where this is still venting the gas into the action. There's no reason to vent gas at the gas block. And adjustable gas blocks are a bandaid solution to a poorly designed relationship between weapon, operating conditions and ammunition. If you're running in a single configuration, such as suppressed and one kind of ammo, then the weapon can be and should be built from the ground up around that. However, if you're constantly switching between open/suppressed and varying your load, then you need some way to tune the rifle. |
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Weight? Lighter than steel, more durable than aluminum. Reduces weight of the weapon and the carrier assembly which makes for LESS recoil and faster follow up shots Quoted:
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We will be selling Titanium M16 carriers soon. Weight? Quoted:
what does titanium bring to the party? Lighter than steel, more durable than aluminum. Reduces weight of the weapon and the carrier assembly which makes for LESS recoil and faster follow up shots Unless it gets some kind of hard coat, a high propensity to gall on moving parts, especially if both are Ti. |
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Unless it gets some kind of hard coat, a high propensity to gall on moving parts, especially if both are Ti. Quoted:
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We will be selling Titanium M16 carriers soon. Weight? Quoted:
what does titanium bring to the party? Lighter than steel, more durable than aluminum. Reduces weight of the weapon and the carrier assembly which makes for LESS recoil and faster follow up shots Unless it gets some kind of hard coat, a high propensity to gall on moving parts, especially if both are Ti. Oh, I'm sure they're just selling it in the white. |
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Lame.
There is always this option: http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0020351000 I'm probably just going to use a JP M16 carrier. |
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Lame. There is always this option: http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0020351000 I'm probably just going to use a JP M16 carrier. What REALLY concerns me is if Tom wasn't happy and gave up on using S7 steel, I'm not sure I'd trust any other manufacturer. |
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Our new 6AL4V Titanium carrier has some awesome features which we are in the process of getting a patent on. So I can't say much right now, but with this new carrier you don't need to use an adjustable gas system, heavier buffer, or a heavier buffer spring, even with the reduced weight. Just drop it in place and start shooting. Also our carrier has a Tool Steel sleeve inside the bore for added durability. It's done the same exact way that steel sleeves are put into Aluminum race engine blocks. They are also Hard Anodized Grey and infused with Teflon for wear resistance. Here's the prototypes (made for our shooting team) these don't have the patented features shown. :-) <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/Intake/0E9F4D25-AFA1-44AB-BD38-78F7AC5239A6_zpsqhzw64p0.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/Intake/0E9F4D25-AFA1-44AB-BD38-78F7AC5239A6_zpsqhzw64p0.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/5F389912-9C1D-4C65-8B02-4CC676555BE4_zpsuyolvsyd.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/5F389912-9C1D-4C65-8B02-4CC676555BE4_zpsuyolvsyd.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/10CE2F10-5A53-4F6A-B109-FE05E8D60237_zpsyac19s6k.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/10CE2F10-5A53-4F6A-B109-FE05E8D60237_zpsyac19s6k.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/D38FC5F9-1A72-4322-9294-F91C97EC0CF5_zpsoqnl5iv0.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/D38FC5F9-1A72-4322-9294-F91C97EC0CF5_zpsoqnl5iv0.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/0309EDBB-BB2B-4314-800B-7F148F6FE4F2_zps3tgfbzwb.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/0309EDBB-BB2B-4314-800B-7F148F6FE4F2_zps3tgfbzwb.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/204004F8-C9A2-4B05-841D-A7A9A2074CAE_zpslgfrhsxu.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/204004F8-C9A2-4B05-841D-A7A9A2074CAE_zpslgfrhsxu.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/B6ACC48D-A976-4107-9199-D2F72DE5DD86_zpsbc46scvr.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/B6ACC48D-A976-4107-9199-D2F72DE5DD86_zpsbc46scvr.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/1FBD3C20-6683-4D9E-AF61-0C57EF24FE96_zps80wi9koo.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/1FBD3C20-6683-4D9E-AF61-0C57EF24FE96_zps80wi9koo.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/AB992B41-9473-4C6F-812E-E430D3EBB2FD_zpsrtjhutig.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/AB992B41-9473-4C6F-812E-E430D3EBB2FD_zpsrtjhutig.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/CC3C72BB-1216-4AD3-BA7A-635F10AEB780_zpsukgvtiii.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/CC3C72BB-1216-4AD3-BA7A-635F10AEB780_zpsukgvtiii.jpg</a> <a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/user/badazzar15/media/9178E091-C84B-47E8-B8A0-5409FBB4EC3F_zpstxgcsdhn.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/9178E091-C84B-47E8-B8A0-5409FBB4EC3F_zpstxgcsdhn.jpg</a> Would those holes possibly help with any sand or grit that got into an AR and improve reliability? |
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I agree, but if it is just the extreme cold weather issue, I should be okay here in Arizona since the coldest I've ever been in is about 20 degrees.  The problem with that is what if you trade it off and eventually, it gets to somebody in North Dakota or Alaska? If they chose the right material, the point becomes moot and they can sell it anywhere. |
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Dammit Tom... http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/52ce606edf828c904ec2eec6da3a868c.jpg how much longer??? |
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Depending on timing, I will probably get a St. Croix or a Boomfab. I have a delrin buffer system I was hopeful would work with Spike's system and a adjustable gas block. If the Ti BCG won't work with just an adjustable gas block, I may also try an adjustable gas key.
Just doing some experimentation. Of course, one manufacturer I was discussing Ti bolt carriers with suggested once you sleeve the BCG, as Tom was proposing, then why not go aluminium. Unless of course you don't want it that light. |
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how much longer??? Quoted:
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Dammit Tom... http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/52ce606edf828c904ec2eec6da3a868c.jpg how much longer??? Still working on them. Not quite ready yet. |
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Depending on timing, I will probably get a St. Croix or a Boomfab. I have a delrin buffer system I was hopeful would work with Spike's system and a adjustable gas block. If the Ti BCG won't work with just an adjustable gas block, I may also try an adjustable gas key. Just doing some experimentation. Of course, one manufacturer I was discussing Ti bolt carriers with suggested once you sleeve the BCG, as Tom was proposing, then why not go aluminium. Unless of course you don't want it that light. goood question... |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Titanium BCG (Page 4 of 5)
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