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7/20/2008 6:01:35 AM EDT
[#1]
No surprises with the 3 groups posted.  I do not clean my AR between shots or mags for that matter.  I would suspect (although I can't prove it) that barrel heat effects the accuracy more than the dirt/fowling after three mags.
7/20/2008 10:26:36 AM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Molon,

When you are doing your accuracy testing, how much time do you allow between each shot on your 10 shot strings?

After each shot, I take a couple of deep breaths to re-oxygenate my Mark I eyeballs, re-acquire a sight picture and then as soon as I get a good read on the wind I'm squeezing the trigger again.


Do you allow the barrel to cool between each 10 shot string?

Not on purpose for any particular length of time.  After each 10-shot string I load the next magazine, (take a drink of Pepsi) and then settle back in to position and begin the next 10-shot string.  After 2-3 strings it's usually time for a target check and then the cycle repeats.



Do you clean the barrel between each 10 shot string?

Never.  If an AR-15 barrel has to be cleaned after 10 shots to maintain its accuracy, it's not a barrel I'm interested in owning.  In a typical trip to the range for accuraccy testing of multiple loads, I might fire 80-120 rounds without cleaning.



How much time should I allow for the barrel to cool, if any between strings?


As I mentioned above, I don't purposely take any particular length of time between strings.  I recently conducted an experiment  in which I fired 30 shots in a row over a time span of 45 minutes.  I allowed the barrel to cool in between each shot for an average of 1 shot every 1.5 minutes.  I then fired three 10-shot groups in a row at my ususal pace for comparison.  I'll be posting the results in the near future.


Molon,

Your procedure is almost exactly what I did, sans the Pepsi!

I would shoot the 10 rd string with only 2 breaths between shots, then B.R.A.S.S. with my 10 y/o on the spotting scope calling my shot placements.
Then I would reload 10 rounds, view target through spotting scope and repeat unitl I was through with my 30 rounds.

I am sure the barrel and rifle are much more capable than I am. This was my new A2 that my Boys and I just assembled last week.

I temporarily mounted a Super Sniper 10X42 scope on it using A.R.M.S. mount to test different OTC loads.

I am disappointed in the Super Sniper scope (I know, that is what I get for going inexspensive) because I couldn't ever get a crisp clear focus at 100 yds!




The barrel was allowed to cool between 30 round strings because I had to let my Boys take their turns shooting their AR's.
7/20/2008 11:00:38 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:

Molon,

Your procedure is almost exactly what I did, sans the Pepsi!


Well there's your problem right there!  I'm actually shooting at a rather leisurely pace to help avoid eye fatigue and the breaks for target checks help with that also.
7/20/2008 6:23:24 PM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
100 Yard Accuracy Evaluation of Prvi Partizan 75 grain Match Ammunition.

Three 10-shot groups were obtained using the PPU 75 grain match load.  Those three groups had extreme spreads that measured:

0.66”
0.92”
1.14”

for an average extreme spread of 0.91”.


Molon,

You had a 39.4 % increase in group size from 1st group to your second.
Only a 23.9 % increase from second to third group.
72.7 % increase in group size from the first to the last.

Besides the increase in barrel temp affecting accuracy, does the flash hider (standard A2) also affect it?
7/21/2008 2:39:34 PM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
100 Yard Accuracy Evaluation of Prvi Partizan 75 grain Match Ammunition.

Three 10-shot groups were obtained using the PPU 75 grain match load.  Those three groups had extreme spreads that measured:

0.66”
0.92”
1.14”

for an average extreme spread of 0.91”.


Molon,

You had a 39.4 % increase in group size from 1st group to your second.
Only a 23.9 % increase from second to third group.
72.7 % increase in group size from the first to the last.

Besides the increase in barrel temp affecting accuracy, does the flash hider (standard A2) also affect it?


In that case, I simply listed the extreme spreads from smallest to largest, not the order that they were fired in.  I haven't done any experiments comparing flash hider versus no flash hider effects on accuracy.
7/31/2008 12:33:12 PM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Anyone test for fragmentation?


+1

Anyone have any info or WAGs?


+2


Check back near the end of July.


END OF JULY END OF JULY!!!
7/31/2008 1:48:55 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Anyone test for fragmentation?


+1

Anyone have any info or WAGs?


+2


Check back near the end of July.


END OF JULY END OF JULY!!!


And sadly nothing to report yet.
7/31/2008 4:23:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks guys I read your post and had to buy a case. Found it on sale here:
www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product1337.html

Now the waiting begins
ATB
7/31/2008 8:56:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Am I the only one who shoots over 100yds?  

-X


300yd 5-shot group shot this past Tuesday.  


WOA 16" barrel used on this setup.

7/31/2008 8:58:46 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Anyone test for fragmentation?


+1

Anyone have any info or WAGs?


+2


Check back near the end of July.


END OF JULY END OF JULY!!!


And sadly nothing to report yet.


Do you have a pool?
8/15/2008 1:41:39 AM EDT
[#11]
well I can back up that 75gr shoots fine with a 1/9 I would not go over that and my fav match gr is 69 anyway but I picked up some and I have a Armalite middy non match barrel and shot sub moa 5 shot groups.. I I have to say 75 is the max you would want to push 1/9 but it also does shoot 77gr fine but alot of "charts" say it does not.. I really like the prvi 75gr and I would use it agian but I dont shoot past 600 yards so 62gr does works fine for me and at my local range you can only shoot to 400m so 55gr works fine there btw I use a TA31F ACOG and the Prvi also works very well witht he BDC if you have it set up right.. but due to me not being able to shoot past 600 yards I really have no need for it but it was some nice shooting ammo and I was very happy with my groups.. I would say if you shoot 800m + go for it or if you shoot matches and can shoot better then your ammo but not much people can unless you are shooting off a bench or prone with a bipod..
8/15/2008 2:47:26 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
well I can back up that 75gr shoots fine with a 1/9 I would not go over that and my fav match gr is 69 anyway but I picked up some and I have a Armalite middy non match barrel and shot sub moa 5 shot groups.. I I have to say 75 is the max you would want to push 1/9 but it also does shoot 77gr fine but alot of "charts" say it does not.. I really like the prvi 75gr and I would use it agian but I dont shoot past 600 yards so 62gr does works fine for me and at my local range you can only shoot to 400m so 55gr works fine there btw I use a TA31F ACOG and the Prvi also works very well witht he BDC if you have it set up right.. but due to me not being able to shoot past 600 yards I really have no need for it but it was some nice shooting ammo and I was very happy with my groups.. I would say if you shoot 800m + go for it or if you shoot matches and can shoot better then your ammo but not much people can unless you are shooting off a bench or prone with a bipod..


That made my eyes hurt.
8/23/2008 10:20:23 AM EDT
[#13]
I have had some interesting results with this ammo and my RRA NMA2 with 1/4 MOA sights.

My 100 yard zero was 4 clicks up from mechanical zero after I adjusted my front sight.

My 200 yard standing/sitting zero is 6 clicks up from mechanical zero.

My 300 yard prone zero is 24 clicks up.  We don't have 600 at my normal range so I haven't checked that yet.

I have '07 stuff in the wolf gold packaging.  I had some '08 stuff in the Prvi packaging before in my A4gery and it was 3 minutes up from 200-300.

8/23/2008 1:39:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Freg testing still needed for this ammo
8/23/2008 7:18:08 PM EDT
[#15]
I shot some 75gr Prvi today, only 50yds though.

I used a 20" J&T hbar 1/9 with a 1-3x Weaver on 3x.  


10 rnds, 7/8", 1 hole (strung out vertically, it was only 1/2" wide)
5rnds, 9/16"
5rnds, 11/16"
5rnds, 1/2" (4 into 5/16")
5rnds, 1" (4 into 7/16") Last round was my fault.

I've ordered a 6-18x Nikon which will go on my 24" 1/8 Fulton match barrel and I'll give it another go.
8/23/2008 7:37:29 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
Am I the only one who shoots over 100yds?  

-X


300yd 5-shot group shot this past Tuesday.  
img516.imageshack.us/img516/1250/2730ctctx4.jpg

WOA 16" barrel used on this setup.
img185.imageshack.us/img185/5319/sprishardv0.jpg


Shoudn't that 2.954 reading be 2.73?
                                                       
2.954
- .224
-------
 2.73                                                    
                                                         
8/23/2008 9:13:49 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Am I the only one who shoots over 100yds?  

-X


300yd 5-shot group shot this past Tuesday.  
img516.imageshack.us/img516/1250/2730ctctx4.jpg

WOA 16" barrel used on this setup.
img185.imageshack.us/img185/5319/sprishardv0.jpg


Shoudn't that 2.954 reading be 2.73?
                                                       
2.954
- .224
-------
 2.73                                                    
                                                         


Zero'd at 0.000 and I just do the math in my head.  

-X
8/23/2008 10:52:29 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Am I the only one who shoots over 100yds?  

-X


300yd 5-shot group shot this past Tuesday.  
img516.imageshack.us/img516/1250/2730ctctx4.jpg

WOA 16" barrel used on this setup.
img185.imageshack.us/img185/5319/sprishardv0.jpg


Shoudn't that 2.954 reading be 2.73?
                                                       
2.954
- .224
-------
 2.73                                                    
                                                         


Zero'd at 0.000 and I just do the math in my head.  

-X


Center-to-center, not edge-to-edge. You're doing better than you think you are!
9/1/2008 5:28:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Can someone atleast section a bullet to see how the thick the jacket is if they wont frag test it?
10/20/2008 4:45:47 AM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
Am I the only one who shoots over 100yds?  
-X
300yd 5-shot group shot this past Tuesday.  
img516.imageshack.us/img516/1250/2730ctctx4.jpg
WOA 16" barrel used on this setup.
img185.imageshack.us/img185/5319/sprishardv0.jpg


Nice porch group!  



I'm thinking of picking some of this up from AIM as a "poorman's TAP" but...


Quoted:
Freg testing still needed for this ammo


(I haven't seen an update anywhere unless I've missed another thread somewhere due to inadequate searching.)  

ETA:  not conclusive, but still ...  www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=217&t=161811
10/20/2008 8:30:20 AM EDT
[#21]
I still haven't seen any frag testing as yet, but I may go do some of my own.  What medium would you guys like me to shoot into?  


Water?

Sand?

Wet paper?

Feral hogs?    
10/20/2008 8:50:37 AM EDT
[#22]
Feral Hogs and that protien based tissue simulant that Corbin sells.
Well actually we would like to see ballistic gellatin but thats stuff's spendy.
 
10/21/2008 3:38:25 AM EDT
[#23]
Privi Match .223 75 grains works great on hogs. hot
Hit him right behind the front shoulder at 125 yards.

Broke one rib on entry and one rib on exit. Found most of the copper jacket in the exit rib.

He ran about 75 feet and collapsed with his thoracic cavity filled with blood and totally destroyed both lungs, heart was not touched.

http://www.phossil.com/thom/BIG%20Boar2.jpg

http://www.phossil.com/thom/Big%20Boar.jpg



10/21/2008 3:52:35 AM EDT
[#24]
I also shot this one last weekend for the freezer with the Privi Match, same story:

http://www.phossil.com/thom/SIG%20HOG3/Hog%20SIG.jpg
10/21/2008 6:52:56 AM EDT
[#25]
Damn, those are some nice hogs man.  What part of FL do you live in?  I may have to come "visit" you, and you come "visit" me for bear/pigs...

10/21/2008 7:06:03 AM EDT
[#26]
I'm in North Central Florida not too far from the Suwannee River.

I do make it up to Road Atlanta and Roebling Road in Savannah a couple times a year for national road racing events.........

Here's another nice one I got about two months ago with the SIG 556 and the Privi Match 75 grains BTJHPs.

http://www.phossil.com/thom/Hog%20&%20Tractor.jpg
10/22/2008 12:16:51 AM EDT
[#27]
HOLY CRAP!!!!
10/22/2008 12:10:44 PM EDT
[#28]
so is this stuff not stabilizing?  I have a 1/9 11.5 with a suppressor... am I going to ruin my baffles?  

Nice hogs, we have them in the neighborhood... they can shred a yard in an hour....  amazing what they will do for a couple hand fulls of apple corn tossed randomly throughout the yard....
10/22/2008 6:46:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Did you find lots of fragments in the hog?
10/23/2008 3:44:53 AM EDT
[#30]
height=8
Quoted:
Did you find lots of fragments in the hog?



Bullets have always gone in one side and out the other. Entry is the size of a pencil eraser and exit the size of a quarter.

On one 500+ pound sow, I did recover the copper jacket in the rib at the exit wound, but have not seen any other pieces or fragments.

It is apparent to me that the bullet did fragment as the holes through the lungs are about the size of a silver dollar.....
10/23/2008 5:19:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Do you guys hunt hogs with dogs, or do you stalk them yourself?  


I only ask because I'm probably moving to texas soon and my girlfriend is wanting to buy a black-mouth cur.  Like I'll say "no" to more dogs, especially hunting dogs.  
10/27/2008 11:14:43 AM EDT
[#32]
Hmm so it looks like prvi match doesnt frag after all
10/27/2008 12:53:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Do you guys hunt hogs with dogs, or do you stalk them yourself?  


I only ask because I'm probably moving to texas soon and my girlfriend is wanting to buy a black-mouth cur.  Like I'll say "no" to more dogs, especially hunting dogs.  


Hunting with dogs generally involves a pack of hounds working together rather than a single dog.  I good-sized boar can easily kill a single dog, including pit bulls.
10/28/2008 1:08:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you guys hunt hogs with dogs, or do you stalk them yourself?  


I only ask because I'm probably moving to texas soon and my girlfriend is wanting to buy a black-mouth cur.  Like I'll say "no" to more dogs, especially hunting dogs.  


Hunting with dogs generally involves a pack of hounds working together rather than a single dog.  I good-sized boar can easily kill a single dog, including pit bulls.


I know- I told her we'd need at least three
10/28/2008 1:18:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
I know- I told her we'd need at least three


If no objections were raised on that point, then that's one good-natured woman you've got there.
11/10/2008 7:07:31 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Hmm so it looks like prvi match doesnt frag after all


I'd say the Privi Match 75 grain BTJHP frags very very well.

I shot a 300 pound hog shot at 100 yards into the shoulder with my SIG 556, not a scratch on the opposite side of the rib cage, no exit wound whatsoever.

Entire lung and thoracic cavity totaled.

Dropped dead in its tracks.
11/10/2008 2:02:16 PM EDT
[#37]
You said there was an exit wound as large as your thumb on the last hog you shot. I guessing there was no frag there.
11/11/2008 1:10:56 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
You said there was an exit wound as large as your thumb on the last hog you shot. I guessing there was no frag there.


Sounds like the exit wound was small because most of the bullet fragments were left behind inside the hog. If the shot resulted in total destruction of the lungs and thoracic cavity that sounds like excellent fragmentation...
11/11/2008 8:55:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Sir,

You make the forum proud. Excellent job, keep those analysis coming.
11/12/2008 10:00:44 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
You said there was an exit wound as large as your thumb on the last hog you shot. I guessing there was no frag there.


This time I shot INTO the shoulder, not behind it. The bullet completely fragmented on the scapula and self-destructed on entry, never reaching the other side of the rib cage. Not a single mark on the far rib cage....

The hog you mentioned I shot earlier broke a rib on entry and a rib on exit as I shot behind the shoulder, not hitting the scapula.....

11/12/2008 10:03:56 AM EDT
[#41]
Forgot to mention, this SIG 556 black rifle really puts the meat on the table.

The bacon in the morning is good, the pork chops for lunch are great, and the ribs and tenderloin for dinner are outstanding!!!
11/12/2008 5:57:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Forgot to mention, this SIG 556 black rifle really puts the meat on the table.

The bacon in the morning is good, the pork chops for lunch are great, and the ribs and tenderloin for dinner are outstanding!!!


Well you know what they say, you are what you eat










J/K
11/13/2008 10:20:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Wow that thing is big!

How do you think this ammo would fare on whitetail?
11/14/2008 4:02:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Wow that thing is big!

How do you think this ammo would fare on whitetail?


Very well if you have proper shot placement.

Here's a 500 poundplus boar my 5.56mm SIG 556 took down with one shot to the lungs, he made it about 75 feet and dropped dead....

http://www.phossil.com/thom/Big%20Boar.jpg
11/14/2008 4:36:43 AM EDT
[#45]
dupe, sorry
11/14/2008 4:37:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Wow, they have those "things" roaming the woods in FL? No wonder you guys carry guns everywhere. Looks like that critter would eat the family dog for sure, even a big one. How the heck do you drag that 500-lb carcass out of the woods?
11/14/2008 6:34:04 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Wow, they have those "things" roaming the woods in FL? No wonder you guys carry guns everywhere. Looks like that critter would eat the family dog for sure, eve a big one. How the heck do you drag that 500-lb carcass out of the woods?


Actually, one of his litter mates was eaten by a 12 foot alligator not more than 250 feet from where I shot him!!!
11/14/2008 4:10:45 PM EDT
[#48]
Molon,

I saw that they have upped the velocity in the 2008 batches.  Any thoughts as to how that would affect accuracy?

Thanks,
FMCDH
11/14/2008 4:34:42 PM EDT
[#49]
I am seriously thinking about picking up a battle-pack or two of this.

I have two 1/9 carbines and only one 1/7 carbine, so I'm a little leery of the performance I'd get in the slow-twist guns.
11/14/2008 5:08:37 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
I am seriously thinking about picking up a battle-pack or two of this.

I have two 1/9 carbines and only one 1/7 carbine, so I'm a little leery of the performance I'd get in the slow-twist guns.


I suggest you wait until PPU 69gr match hits the market

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