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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Noveske NSR - Coming Soon! (Page 2 of 3)
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"***Edit 1/27 @ 8:20PM - NSR 11" Retail is $245***" Well there goes that. I guess when they said "in the range of the higher end rails" they meant quad rails since the higher end tube rails all cost about 180$. There is no way I'm going to pay the same amount of money for a simple tubular extruded forend as I would a quad rail. That's just stupid. Noveske continues their practice of pricing (granted high quality) products way out of their worth. I'll just go with the Rainier/Sampson tube or maybe the apex since they both look better anyway. Kinda of my thinking too. I was just about to pick up the new TRX rail but then I saw this and decide to hold out for a price. I figured if it was in the same price range as the 11" TRX, I'd go this route. I found TRX's for $163.00, but I was figuring if the Noveske was in the $185 or less range, with the rail or two I wanted, I could probably get into everything said and done for $250 or a little under...? Well heck if the rails almost $250, by the time I set it up the way I want it, I might as well go with something like a Daniel Defense M4-A1 RIS II. Seth, I guess we are not Noveskes intended target market, people who want to pay for the Noveske name to say they have Noveske stuff! =) |
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I think the accessories make the system viable at $250. This isnt "just" a rail. If you are looking for just a rail then by all means you should go with a less expensive solution.
No one makes similar panels (dont need a pic rail) or as simple light weight removable QD sling point. -T |
The first step would be putting your upper in a vise and drilling a hole above the gas tube for the anti-torsion pin*..... Then it should be very end-user friendly after that part....  *- feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Quoted: I'm no expert but Id like to know how difficult the install is on the Noveske ..... |
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Quoted: The first step would be putting your upper in a vise and drilling a hole above the gas tube for the anti-torsion pin*..... Then it should be very end-user friendly after that part.... *- feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Anti-rotation pin is optional. You don't have to use it. So still no ETA on NSR? |
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Quoted: Quoted: The first step would be putting your upper in a vise and drilling a hole above the gas tube for the anti-torsion pin*..... Then it should be very end-user friendly after that part.... *- feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Anti-rotation pin is optional. You don't have to use it. So still no ETA on NSR? That defeats the purpose of having such a "anti-torsion" or "anti-rotation" pin to begin with. I see it similar to this......Example.... Company Man says...."Our Rails are so inherently strong because of this "Anti-Torsion" pin design" Customer says..."...But I don't want to drill holes or modify any part of my upper" Company Man says..."That's okay, you don't have too. You can still use our rails without the "Anti-Torsion" pin, and it will be plenty strong" Customer says..."Then why even offer the "Anti-Torsion" pin to begin with, on a rail that is without it, already "plenty strong"? As I stated before, there are plenty of rails which offer "Anti-Torsion", "Anti-Rotation", "Location-Tabs", etc. And they do not require me to drill or modify anything to have this "Anti-Torsion" or "Anti-Rotation" feature.  EDIT - I like the rail and it's features, but c'mon Noveske product engineers! YOU CAN come up with a far better user-friendly "Anti-Rotation" design, which wouldn't require permanent mods done. You want the biggest market possible right? Sell a lot? Make the most money? All while ushering in the new-era of "direct-attach" modular rail system and specific components? And potentially making the picatinny rail's go the way of the dinosaurs? Who knows? Personally, I really like the attachment mounting design of this fore-end. But, friendly end-user install is the first place to start, for obvious, advantageous reasons, then start stacking on the features, such as integral QD, "Anti-rotation" features, unique component mounting system, etc. I believe this type of approach may be more beneficial and yielding for both manufacturer and customer. This is not rocket science.  ADDED: I apologize if I came across as a troll, I'm not. I know Noveske is very highly regarded in the AR15 crowd, and I do not dispute that. Just giving some constructive criticism.  |
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I think John Noveske probably designed and constructed the NSR to be user installable by people who want that option.
It probably incorporates a torque spec on the barrel nut which is not the same as USGI but higher and since there are at least 4 anti-rotation screws going in at the 0300 and 0900 sides into a barrel nut which is 2" long, I'm willing to bet this rail won't be coming off without a fight. If you, as an operator, know how you will run your gun, the torsion screw may well be needed if you think you need it. Some people may not. Consider too the barrel nut may need to be timed off the gas port in the upper receiver. This will provide another level of anti-rotation. I am speculating, however, but when I have the chance to install a few of these I will gladly report on the procedures, fit, finish, and how well it lines up on various receivers. If they start teaming up with Magpul and arrive at a NSR-RVG I'm going to be sunk. Every rifle I own might get one then. Please keep in mind I don't have anything but a QD endplate on my SBR and it isn't something I think about when running that gun. It just does its job. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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"***Edit 1/27 @ 8:20PM - NSR 11" Retail is $245***" Well there goes that. I guess when they said "in the range of the higher end rails" they meant quad rails since the higher end tube rails all cost about 180$. There is no way I'm going to pay the same amount of money for a simple tubular extruded forend as I would a quad rail. That's just stupid. Noveske continues their practice of pricing (granted high quality) products way out of their worth. I'll just go with the Rainier/Sampson tube or maybe the apex since they both look better anyway. Kinda of my thinking too. I was just about to pick up the new TRX rail but then I saw this and decide to hold out for a price. I figured if it was in the same price range as the 11" TRX, I'd go this route. I found TRX's for $163.00, but I was figuring if the Noveske was in the $185 or less range, with the rail or two I wanted, I could probably get into everything said and done for $250 or a little under...? Well heck if the rails almost $250, by the time I set it up the way I want it, I might as well go with something like a Daniel Defense M4-A1 RIS II. Seth, I guess we are not Noveskes intended target market, people who want to pay for the Noveske name to say they have Noveske stuff! =) Just from the images I'm betting the NSR will have a stronger & stiffer barrel nut/tube interface than any of the other options plus have solid attachment options. There are plenty of us willing to pay more when the engineering is sound and has obvious benefits. |
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This is obviously more than just a simple extrusion, and with the above in mind, the price doesn't seem out of sorts to me. I know people will not like it, or wish it was cheaper, but that is part of life. There are lots of things I can't afford, I feel their pain, but still manage to sleep at night.
I think I covered most of the questions, if I missed something, let me know and I'll answer it if I can. No. It is not obviously more than a simple extrusion, That is exactly what this is. Every single one of these rails is made using the same technology, pressure extrusion. The only difference between them is the shape of the die they are forced through, and the shape of the cuts applied to them after extrusion. This offers nothing more than the Troy, Sampson, or apex tubes, besides a slightly different form factor and countersunk keyholes. I am glad Noveske knows how to use a countersink, but I don't think that knowledge is worth 60 more of my dollars. As for the whole direct attachment of rail covers without the actual rails, it's a really great idea, but it's just as possible to do it on the other tubes. It's not like this one is the only one with the capability. I really like Noveske stuff, and I still will probably own this rail before long, because I like the form factor, but I won't be terribly happy with the purchase or the company, and I doubt I will recommend them to friends. It all looks great and performs better, but so does a DD or BCM, for a whole lot less money. |
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This is obviously more than just a simple extrusion, and with the above in mind, the price doesn't seem out of sorts to me. I know people will not like it, or wish it was cheaper, but that is part of life. There are lots of things I can't afford, I feel their pain, but still manage to sleep at night.
I think I covered most of the questions, if I missed something, let me know and I'll answer it if I can. No. It is not obviously more than a simple extrusion, That is exactly what this is. Every single one of these rails is made using the same technology, pressure extrusion. The only difference between them is the shape of the die they are forced through, and the shape of the cuts applied to them after extrusion. This offers nothing more than the Troy, Sampson, or apex tubes, besides a slightly different form factor and countersunk keyholes. I am glad Noveske knows how to use a countersink, but I don't think that knowledge is worth 60 more of my dollars. As for the whole direct attachment of rail covers without the actual rails, it's a really great idea, but it's just as possible to do it on the other tubes. It's not like this one is the only one with the capability. I really like Noveske stuff, and I still will probably own this rail before long, because I like the form factor, but I won't be terribly happy with the purchase or the company, and I doubt I will recommend them to friends. It all looks great and performs better, but so does a DD or BCM, for a whole lot less money. What's with this race to the bottom when it comes to pricing? Valuing low price over everything else leads to the Walmart economy that's screwing us right now. |
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This is obviously more than just a simple extrusion, and with the above in mind, the price doesn't seem out of sorts to me. I know people will not like it, or wish it was cheaper, but that is part of life. There are lots of things I can't afford, I feel their pain, but still manage to sleep at night.
I think I covered most of the questions, if I missed something, let me know and I'll answer it if I can. No. It is not obviously more than a simple extrusion, That is exactly what this is. Every single one of these rails is made using the same technology, pressure extrusion. The only difference between them is the shape of the die they are forced through, and the shape of the cuts applied to them after extrusion. This offers nothing more than the Troy, Sampson, or apex tubes, besides a slightly different form factor and countersunk keyholes. I am glad Noveske knows how to use a countersink, but I don't think that knowledge is worth 60 more of my dollars. As for the whole direct attachment of rail covers without the actual rails, it's a really great idea, but it's just as possible to do it on the other tubes. It's not like this one is the only one with the capability. I really like Noveske stuff, and I still will probably own this rail before long, because I like the form factor, but I won't be terribly happy with the purchase or the company, and I doubt I will recommend them to friends. It all looks great and performs better, but so does a DD or BCM, for a whole lot less money. What's with this race to the bottom when it comes to pricing? Valuing low price over everything else leads to the Walmart economy that's screwing us right now. I never said they should give them away at parades. I just want a reasonable price. Believe me when I say that they are still making plenty of money off of these things at 180$. Aluminum is cheap, and very easy to work, and extrusion is just about the cheapest way to make a shape. For instance, ever bought a broom with an aluminum handle? That handle was extruded, and the whole thing probably cost you 10$. That 10$ includes not only profit for the factory, distributer, and store, but also all the shipping in between. I'd be perfectly happy to pay a little premium for this thing, because I do like the look and form factor(flat sided instead of round). I'd be happy to pay $200, even $220 for the fact that it looks cool and says Noveske on it. But pricing it at 245$, especially for the shorter lengths, when the troys and Rainiers, which work perfectly, are 160-180$, is a little insulting. I'm still probably gonna buy the damn thing, but I won't be happy about it. It's just another example of people who care more about the bottom line, than about getting good kit to people who need it. I guess I can see why they do it, not only does it make them more money but also keeps Noveske from becoming commonplace. If everybody had one, they wouldn't be special anymore, would they? ...I just don't like it. |
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If I could pay $2 more to get a Noveske broom handle, I might just do that. I know it'll be concentric to the handle. Fit and form would be great. And it will take polymer inserts in FDE, black, and OD. No extra screws required.
Seth, I've got a hard time understand why you feel it necessary to complain about a price, say you love Noveske, then say you won't be terribly happy with the purchase or the company. I have some good reading for you: it's called Come Let us Reason, by Norman Geisler and David Brooks. Show me any other freefloat system that allows modular panels with integrated handstops to be installed without rails. None. Show me any other freefloat system that has a slimmer profile. None. Is there anything else you'd like to crap out on this thread? I'm not one to try to separate someone from their money, but in this case, beware purchasing this NSR simply because you're going to be an unhappy camper here. |
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Correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I've gathered from the bits and pieces of hearing about this product. Keep in mind I haven't read every post or scoured every blog for info.
It's $245 for a tube that you have to drill a hole into your upper receiver to use? The accessories that can be used will be limited, if not proprietary unless utilizing the rail section components? The process of mounting accessories appears to be more tedious and less simple than the traditional quad rail. I say this in the context of being on the go. This is very close in price to the DD MFR, but in my opinion as far as tubes go the MFR is a bit steep and down right ugly. Don't get me wrong I love the look/apparent thinness and I think there is an absolute place in the market for tube forends aside from a purely aesthetic standpoint....I just don't see the game changing aspect and how this design is numbering the days of the quad rail. |
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I never said they should give them away at parades. I just want a reasonable price. Believe me when I say that they are still making plenty of money off of these things at 180$. Aluminum is cheap, and very easy to work, and extrusion is just about the cheapest way to make a shape. For instance, ever bought a broom with an aluminum handle? That handle was extruded, and the whole thing probably cost you 10$. That 10$ includes not only profit for the factory, distributer, and store, but also all the shipping in between. I'd be perfectly happy to pay a little premium for this thing, because I do like the look and form factor(flat sided instead of round). I'd be happy to pay $200, even $220 for the fact that it looks cool and says Noveske on it. But pricing it at 245$, especially for the shorter lengths, when the troys and Rainiers, which work perfectly, are 160-180$, is a little insulting. I'm still probably gonna buy the damn thing, but I won't be happy about it. It's just another example of people who care more about the bottom line, than about getting good kit to people who need it. I guess I can see why they do it, not only does it make them more money but also keeps Noveske from becoming commonplace. If everybody had one, they wouldn't be special anymore, would they? ...I just don't like it. Since you're sure they are making plenty of money at $180 you should make some and sell them at $170. You'll get rich making plenty of money and have fun showing Noveske how to do it. Re the bold - Maybe it's people who said "Let's make the best handguard in the world no matter what. Make it as stiff, light and strong as possible plus totally modular with rock solid attachments. Instead of building something to meet a price point let's build it the best we can no matter what." Why is that so hard to understand. All you are seeing is black aluminum not the untold hours and protoypes invested in figuring the design out. |
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If I could pay $2 more to get a Noveske broom handle, I might just do that. I know it'll be concentric to the handle. Fit and form would be great. And it will take polymer inserts in FDE, black, and OD. No extra screws required. Seth, I've got a hard time understand why you feel it necessary to complain about a price, say you love Noveske, then say you won't be terribly happy with the purchase or the company. My job is not to make you understand. I have some good reading for you: it's called Come Let us Reason, by Norman Geisler and David Brooks. Show me any other freefloat system that allows modular panels with integrated handstops to be installed without rails. None. How about every single one of the other tubes? There is nothing this rail does that the troys and sampsons can't do besides the "beveled keyhole" bit. The fact that no one currently makes the covers doesn't change the fact that it costs nothing for the capability. Show me any other freefloat system that has a slimmer profile. None. the profile is set by the shape of the extruding die, it costs nothing to pick one shape over another. In fact, this slimmer profile is probably cheaper to produce by a small amount due to using less aluminum. Is there anything else you'd like to crap out on this thread? Nice way to stay civil. I'm not one to try to separate someone from their money, but in this case, beware purchasing this NSR simply because you're going to be an unhappy camper here. This last sentence doesn't really make any sense. |
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I never said they should give them away at parades. I just want a reasonable price. Believe me when I say that they are still making plenty of money off of these things at 180$. Aluminum is cheap, and very easy to work, and extrusion is just about the cheapest way to make a shape. For instance, ever bought a broom with an aluminum handle? That handle was extruded, and the whole thing probably cost you 10$. That 10$ includes not only profit for the factory, distributer, and store, but also all the shipping in between. I'd be perfectly happy to pay a little premium for this thing, because I do like the look and form factor(flat sided instead of round). I'd be happy to pay $200, even $220 for the fact that it looks cool and says Noveske on it. But pricing it at 245$, especially for the shorter lengths, when the troys and Rainiers, which work perfectly, are 160-180$, is a little insulting. I'm still probably gonna buy the damn thing, but I won't be happy about it. It's just another example of people who care more about the bottom line, than about getting good kit to people who need it. I guess I can see why they do it, not only does it make them more money but also keeps Noveske from becoming commonplace. If everybody had one, they wouldn't be special anymore, would they? ...I just don't like it. Since you're sure they are making plenty of money at $180 you should make some and sell them at $170. You'll get rich making plenty of money and have fun showing Noveske how to do it. Ah the good 'ol "if you know so much why don't you do it". I remember that one from 3rd grade. I do not make gun parts, and I don't have any interest in making gun parts. Re the bold - Maybe it's people who said "Let's make the best handguard in the world no matter what. Make it as stiff, light and strong as possible plus totally modular with rock solid attachments. Instead of building something to meet a price point let's build it the best we can no matter what." Why is that so hard to understand. All you are seeing is black aluminum not the untold hours and protoypes invested in figuring the design out. Figuring the design out? This thing does not appear to be any sturdier than the other offerings. It is about the same shape as the other offerings. It only has a small, limited use capability improvement in the keyhole pattern. So why exactly must it be so much harder to Research and produce, and therefore more expensive, than the other offerings? |
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Apparently, there were three of us in concurrent development.... http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/gsr/20.jpg I just wasn't invited to the party. I like that.... Too bad ! I also like your idea better ! |
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Guys knock off the non technical discussion and other ancillary garbage in this forum. This is part of the technical side of the site so such off topic commentary is not permitted.
Review the code of conduct at the top right red button, consider this a fair informal warning, next time won't be so informal. |
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Guys knock off the non technical discussion and other ancillary garbage in this forum. This is part of the technical side of the site so such off topic commentary is not permitted. Review the code of conduct at the top right red button, consider this a fair informal warning, next time won't be so informal. If I remember correctly you are pretty close to this project...Although I may be wrong. Is there an estimated release date. I am in the process of selling my SWS rails that came on my Noveske SPR and would really like to replace them with a set of these. The big benefit is I already have the hole drilled in the Noveske upper receiver I am using...
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The SWS uses a different barrel nut from the NSR, so the drilled anti-rotation pin might be in a different position. For your sake though, I hope not 
I'm really wanting to see a 7" NSR and 8" Noveske 300blk barrel as my stripped upper collection keeps multiplying and I think this might be a great addition to the safe. |
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The SWS uses a different barrel nut from the NSR, so the drilled anti-rotation pin might be in a different position. For your sake though, I hope not
I'm really wanting to see a 7" NSR and 8" Noveske 300blk barrel as my stripped upper collection keeps multiplying and I think this might be a great addition to the safe. Haha...Don't come in here and rain on my parade...I can believe what I want to believe until I receive the rail and realize it wont work....
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| With our discussion of what (if anything) makes the NSR worth the extra money can anyone from Noveske chime in with some actual reasons. I have my beliefs & hopes about what make it better but would like to hear some technical reasons and engineering explanations on what was done differently than others on the market. |
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The SWS uses a different barrel nut from the NSR, so the drilled anti-rotation pin might be in a different position. For your sake though, I hope not
I'm really wanting to see a 7" NSR and 8" Noveske 300blk barrel as my stripped upper collection keeps multiplying and I think this might be a great addition to the safe. +1 I'd love to see a 9" with a 10" blk bbl! Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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With our discussion of what (if anything) makes the NSR worth the extra money can anyone from Noveske chime in with some actual reasons. I have my beliefs & hopes about what make it better but would like to hear some technical reasons and engineering explanations on what was done differently than others on the market. I wouldn't call this rail system needing "extra money" simply because there are likely a great number of gunners who prefer to run a weapon without gloves, myself included. Comparable systems do not have a smaller size, and they do not incorporate a Panel/handstop system which mounts directly to the forearm without additional rail sections. You can't find the Daniel Defense MFR in a 7, 9, 11, or 16" size. They're only producing 12 and 15" MFRs from what I've seen currently. Don't get me wrong though––-I like the MFR, I just wish there was a method of putting something similar to a Magpul XTM onto it's slots that didn't bring the width out to 2.25 or more due to adding rails to mount them to.. Having the options from Noveske to have a low profile sling QD shows they're serious about making this as high-speed/low drag as possible. Plus, it weighs very little. More information is available on M4C, Weapon Evolution, and probably some other sites I'm not a member on. You can find a great bit of detail elsewhere if your questions aren't answered here. |
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With our discussion of what (if anything) makes the NSR worth the extra money can anyone from Noveske chime in with some actual reasons. I have my beliefs & hopes about what make it better but would like to hear some technical reasons and engineering explanations on what was done differently than others on the market. This. It's entirely possible that I'm full of crap and this rail is way better than the troys and sampsons. I would like to hear about any innovations in the NSR. I want to know why it's better. Convince me to buy one. As for the attachable accessories, I don't think those are included in the price, so Noveske will be charging money for them, quite a bit I imagine. |
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Not looking to stir up anything here - love the rail. But is there any conflict with Accracy Internationals Patent on the same handguard design being showcased on their new AX.308 bolt gun?
http://www.accuracyinternational.com/ax308.php J223... |
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I must have missed that when I talked with them, and wrote the original article which announced the product. I'll see if I can get a realistic time frame for release from John, Sherri or Todd. Feb 10th from dreaded Facebook: As of right now, it looks like we will have a limited amount available in 7 weeks with most accessories. We will have some rifles and upper assemblies with the NSR rail available before that, but with limited accessory availability. We are all engines forward and pretty excited.
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The NSR intends to have accessories attach directly to the tube, sans rail segments. It'll keep a low profile instead of pancaking attachments.
For me, the real question is whether other manufacturers will pick up this system, or if it's just another proprietary lock-in. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Noveske NSR - Coming Soon! (Page 2 of 3)
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