Everything you wanted to know about 2-stage triggers > AR Discussions

Posted: 3/31/2006 11:51:40 AM EDT

[#1]

TAG

Posted: 4/18/2006 4:18:06 AM EDT

[#2]

bump & tag

Posted: 4/22/2006 3:40:15 AM EDT

[#3]

Is there anything we should do to the RRA 2-stage trigger as soon as we get them?

Posted: 4/22/2006 4:26:52 AM EDT

[#4]

Steve and Bill,

The US Army Marksmanship Unit has begun technical inspections of the 3rd Infantry Division's 275 M16A4 Designated Marksman Rifles now that they have returned from Iraq and have enjoyed their 30-day leave.

The results will surprise the Army -- on the GOOD side.

Our inspections are again showing that the Knight trigger has enough durability issues (even though it is a very low density National Stock Number item) that the Geissele trigger may indeed be the way forward in the evolution of the Army's M16A4 DM Rifle.

Not to go into too many details until we get a look at the other 3/4s of the rifles, but the red Lock-tite we used on the screws held in all instances. On first report for this batch of rifles, either the Knight trigger's metallurgy or surface hardening is its weak area.

Posted: 4/22/2006 4:55:37 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Steve and Bill,

The US Army Marksmanship Unit has begun technical inspections of the 3rd Infantry Division's 275 M16A4 Designated Marksman Rifles now that they have returned from Iraq and have enjoyed their 30-day leave.

The results will surprise the Army -- on the GOOD side.

Our inspections are again showing that the Knight trigger has enough durability issues (even though it is a very low density National Stock Number item) that the Geissele trigger may indeed be the way forward in the evolution of the Army's M16A4 DM Rifle.

Not to go into too many details until we get a look at the other 3/4s of the rifles, but the red Lock-tite we used on the screws held in all instances. On first report for this batch of rifles, either the Knight trigger's metallurgy or surface hardening is its weak area.

Thanks for the info

Posted: 4/22/2006 5:55:49 PM EDT

[#6]

Mods please TACK this up somewhere for the newbie's. Great thread Steve. OUT. Tuna

Posted: 4/26/2006 4:47:05 AM EDT

[#7]

Sorry if I'm asking for a repeat of something that's already been addressed, but I haven't seen it here. I'm curious of what people's opinions are of the LMT 2-stage as opposed to the McCormick(feel-wise, and durability-wise) .

Thanks,
Pat

Posted: 4/26/2006 5:19:44 AM EDT

[#8]

IIRC the LMT is the same as the RRA.

Posted: 4/26/2006 6:28:52 AM EDT

[#9]

IIRC the LMT is the same design as the RRA but higher quality parts are used. But how does the McCormick compare (obviously not as nice as the KAC or Geissele, but is it better than the LMT?)

Pat

Posted: 4/26/2006 7:22:02 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
IIRC the LMT is the same design as the RRA but higher quality parts are used. But how does the McCormick compare (obviously not as nice as the KAC or Geissele, but is it better than the LMT?)

Pat

From what bigbore and AMU have said, the Giesseelle is a much better FCG than the KAC.
I'm not sure if LMT uses better parts because Bigbore still has to change out the disconnector pin on the LMT, so obviously it's not significantly better.

Posted: 4/26/2006 7:41:34 AM EDT

[#11]

Tag.

Posted: 4/26/2006 7:54:57 AM EDT

[#12]

That's what I understood BigBore to say too. I guess my actual quesiont is - If a RRA is $90, and an LMT is 140, and a McCormick is $160 - is the MCCormick worth $70 more than an RRA?

Posted: 4/26/2006 8:17:51 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
That's what I understood BigBore to say too. I guess my actual quesiont is - If a RRA is $90, and an LMT is 140, and a McCormick is $160 - is the MCCormick worth $70 more than an RRA?

With the trade discount and the SHOT show discount at Brownells, you can get the RRA for about $70 and change.

Posted: 4/26/2006 8:26:06 AM EDT

[#14]

With the trade discount and the SHOT show discount at Brownells, you can get the RRA for about $70 and change.

That's some good info. How do you go about getting these discounts from Brownell's?

Posted: 4/26/2006 8:41:06 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
With the trade discount and the SHOT show discount at Brownells, you can get the RRA for about $70 and change.

That's some good info. How do you go about getting these discounts from Brownell's?

IM sent

Posted: 4/26/2006 8:54:37 AM EDT

[#16]

IM sent

Hey Metro,

I'm at work and can't get IMs. Sorry bout that.

Pat

Posted: 4/26/2006 8:58:10 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
IM sent

Hey Metro,

I'm at work and can't get IMs. Sorry bout that.

Pat

I sent you an IM through AR15.com's system. You don't have a red "IM Messages" button on the top left corner of your screen? I'll send you an email instead.

Posted: 4/26/2006 9:02:05 AM EDT

[#18]

I sent you an IM through AR15.com's system. You don't have a red "IM Messages" button on the top left corner of your screen? I'll send you an email instead.

Yeah, the red thing was there. I got it. Thanks for your help.

Posted: 4/26/2006 11:33:18 AM EDT

[#19]

.

Posted: 4/26/2006 12:32:43 PM EDT

[#20]

Tag for later

Posted: 4/29/2006 4:43:17 PM EDT

[#21]

I got my RRA 2-stage triggers. The final pull is around 3.5-3.7 lb, VERY VERY crisp! It's like clicking a mouse!

I made sure to lube all of the surfaces, do safety checks, and dry fire several dozen times. I won't ever go back to the stock single stage FCG ever again unless absolutely necessary.

Posted: 4/30/2006 5:01:50 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
I got my RRA 2-stage triggers. The final pull is around 3.5-3.7 lb, VERY VERY crisp! It's like clicking a mouse!

I made sure to lube all of the surfaces, do safety checks, and dry fire several dozen times. I won't ever go back to the stock single stage FCG ever again unless absolutely necessary.

ha! I knew it!

Posted: 4/30/2006 5:04:54 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I got my RRA 2-stage triggers. The final pull is around 3.5-3.7 lb, VERY VERY crisp! It's like clicking a mouse!

I made sure to lube all of the surfaces, do safety checks, and dry fire several dozen times. I won't ever go back to the stock single stage FCG ever again unless absolutely necessary.

But all the tacticool skool operators say NO to two-stages......

Posted: 4/30/2006 7:23:13 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I got my RRA 2-stage triggers. The final pull is around 3.5-3.7 lb, VERY VERY crisp! It's like clicking a mouse!

I made sure to lube all of the surfaces, do safety checks, and dry fire several dozen times. I won't ever go back to the stock single stage FCG ever again unless absolutely necessary.

ha! I knew it!

Man, I find myself dry-firing the ARs whenever possible just to try out the 2-stage. It's nothing like the Robinson 2-stage on the Vepr, which I suppose made me think all 2 stages were like that (creepy first and 2nd stages). The RRA 2-stage has a light first "stage" (feels like the single stage with the hammer already released) and a 2nd stage that is crisp and short, somewhat like the single stage AR trigger. I know I'm not explaining it properly, but I'm definitely keeping them!

Posted: 4/30/2006 11:23:52 AM EDT

[#25]

RRA is actually not all THAT great in feel IMO. It is "very good" but not "excellent". There are better triggers... KAC for example. I really want to try a GA trigger to see if the reset and take up are shorter. If they are I will swap the KAC or the GA trigger.

Posted: 4/30/2006 11:36:42 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
RRA is actually not all THAT great in feel IMO. It is "very good" but not "excellent". There are better triggers... KAC for example. I really want to try a GA trigger to see if the reset and take up are shorter. If they are I will swap the KAC or the GA trigger.

There probably are better triggers, but not at under $80 each.

Posted: 4/30/2006 12:06:39 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
RRA is actually not all THAT great in feel IMO. It is "very good" but not "excellent". There are better triggers... KAC for example. I really want to try a GA trigger to see if the reset and take up are shorter. If they are I will swap the KAC or the GA trigger.

There probably are better triggers, but not at under $80 each.

+1

Posted: 4/30/2006 12:21:04 PM EDT

[#28]

Posted: 4/30/2006 1:02:27 PM EDT

[#29]

well dang guys, it sounds like we just ought to do a group buy of one of these. I have been considering the RRA but (#1) I cant find them under $120 locally. Now you are making my mouth water with better setups. I am a fan of adjustability, that is #2 why I have not gone RRA yet.

Posted: 4/30/2006 1:16:31 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
RRA is actually not all THAT great in feel IMO. It is "very good" but not "excellent". There are better triggers... KAC for example. I really want to try a GA trigger to see if the reset and take up are shorter. If they are I will swap the KAC or the GA trigger.

Looks like DevL will be swapping out his KAC triggers

Posted: 4/30/2006 1:17:19 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
If you can see the yellow dash in the picture, where the disconnector hits the disconnector stop - thats your problem. That is where the sear engagement is set for the second stage of the trigger. If there is too much, the trigger will have a bunch of creep, not enough - you have a single stage trigger. Remove the trigger and clamp it in a vise by the trigger. Roll or cut a piece of emory cloth, and work it between the disconnector and where it hits the stop, with the course side on the disconnector. As you remove material, you are adding sear engagement and will again have a 2 stage trigger. If you have jewelers file that will fit in there, it will work too.

www.adcofirearms.com/trigger/RRA_repair.jpg

www.adcofirearms.com/trigger/sand_disconnector.jpg

This is how I fixed mine. This method works! For the money, I can't think of a better 2-stage trigger...for the money.

I need to retrofit mine with the longer pin, too.

Posted: 4/30/2006 7:59:29 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
well dang guys, it sounds like we just ought to do a group buy of one of these. I have been considering the RRA but (#1) I cant find them under $120 locally. Now you are making my mouth water with better setups. I am a fan of adjustability, that is #2 why I have not gone RRA yet.

Just go to Bigbore's site, ADCO, where he has them listed for $95

Rick

Posted: 4/30/2006 8:04:53 PM EDT

[#33]

tag. THANKS

Posted: 4/30/2006 11:16:07 PM EDT

[#34]

I installed a service grade Geissele trigger on my Recce/3-gun carbine last night and I'm very happy with what it gave me.

Heavy enough in the first stage that I won't jump shots in the CQB stages, light and crisp enough in the second stage for the 300 yard stages.

Posted: 5/1/2006 1:52:04 AM EDT

[#35]

TAG

Posted: 5/1/2006 5:11:16 PM EDT

[#36]

Do any of these 2 stage triggers besides the RRA fit the big pin colt? I would love to put a Geissele in my 6920.

Posted: 5/1/2006 5:15:59 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Do any of these 2 stage triggers besides the RRA fit the big pin colt? I would love to put a Geissele in my 6920.

The large pin Geissele will be out very soon.

Posted: 5/15/2006 7:20:07 AM EDT

[#38]

.

Posted: 5/15/2006 8:24:14 AM EDT

[#39]

tag ........thanks for the info

Posted: 6/10/2006 9:56:44 PM EDT

[#40]

I bought a RRA Nat. Match Trigger today that says it will fit a .168 diameter. How do I know if it will fit my colt 6920 M-4, without taking the rife apart and trying it. Is their any difference in a 2 stage and this trigger it came with a orange print out verses the blue print out (2 stage) it doesn't come with a model number or anything marked on the package (just some orange paper instructions)
Thanks

Posted: 6/10/2006 11:57:12 PM EDT

[#41]

Bigbore, does GA have a cheater pin like KAC for aiding in ease of installation? If one is not included I think it would be a nice addition. Its a pain chaging triggers with no cheater pin.

Posted: 6/11/2006 3:42:51 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Bigbore, does GA have a cheater pin like KAC for aiding in ease of installation?

yes

Posted: 6/17/2006 8:33:15 AM EDT

[#43]

tag

Posted: 6/19/2006 8:38:31 AM EDT

[#44]

Hi,

I just bought a Jewell 2 Stage Match trigger, and I am unsure how much trigger pull will be needed on my 20" Bull-Barrel Oberland-Arms OA-15 for safe work. Can I have a save Match trigger with about 980 gramms (~ 2 pounds) pull ? Or should I go to 1400 gramms (~ 3 pounds) to be on the save side ?

How much is the minimum ?

Sugestions are welcome.

bye
Oli

Posted: 6/19/2006 8:56:38 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Hi,

I just bought a Jewell 2 Stage Match trigger, and I am unsure how much trigger pull will be needed on my 20" Bull-Barrel Oberland-Arms OA-15 for safe work. Can I have a save Match trigger with about 980 gramms (~ 2 pounds) pull ? Or should I go to 1400 gramms (~ 3 pounds) to be on the save side ?

How much is the minimum ?

Sugestions are welcome.

bye
Oli

IMO

I think you would be better off with the 1400gramms.

Posted: 6/19/2006 10:16:57 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Hi,

I just bought a Jewell 2 Stage Match trigger, and I am unsure how much trigger pull will be needed on my 20" Bull-Barrel Oberland-Arms OA-15 for safe work. Can I have a save Match trigger with about 980 gramms (~ 2 pounds) pull ? Or should I go to 1400 gramms (~ 3 pounds) to be on the save side ?

How much is the minimum ?

Sugestions are welcome.

bye
Oli

Oli, 950 grams is plenty safe with a quality trigger like the Geissele. Highpower Rifle target shooters using the AR-15 here in the US have been using two stage triggers in the 1.5 to 2 lbs (680 to 910 grams) range total weight for years without a problem.

Posted: 6/20/2006 12:05:07 AM EDT

[#47]

Hi,

thank your for your answers. I think I will adjust about 1050 gramms.

bye
Oli

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