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Brown Bear vs. Silver Bear corrosion***UPDATE #3*** pg.2 (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/11/2011 5:11:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MattNificent][Edited]
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i have had 1 round each of BB poly, BB lacquer, and SB sitting out in the rain, snow, ice, dew, sun, etc. for the past couple months to see how they corroded. they are sitting up right in a length of 2x4. i am in east texas, and the pics are the best i could do with my camera and the wind blowing me around, but you get the idea...
**UPDATED with much better pics of the primers...** Silver Bear 
Case has some white corrosion on it, nothing too serious. Also same corrosion where the bullet is seated in the case... 
Primer area also has the same white corrosion... Brown Bear polymer 
the polymer has quite a bit of rust on the case, and a small amount where the bullet meets the case, but im not sure if you can tell in the pic.. 
primer area is clean, no rust or corrosion of any kind... Brown Bear Lacquer 
has hardly any rust, you can see the little bit on the case shoulder on the left side.. 
but the primer area is rusted..im not sure why it rusted when the primer on the polymer didnt? a couple extra pics i tried taking inside with the flash on..shows SB and BB poly... 
and that concludes my very un-scientific testing. i wouldnt have any problem storing the BB lacquer, or even the SB long term, i dont think i would store the polymer though as it had the most rust/corrosion. i might continue the test with 1 of each round sitting about half submerged in water and see what happens. i also have some yugo brass now, i guess ill add it to the mix also. if you have any suggestions let me know.. |
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Ok so the reason the BB is not as corroded is because it is a steel casing with its covering not sure if its laquer or poly either way it doesnt matter. the corrosion is cause by dissimilar metal contract, and electrolyte such as salt and water. The electrolyte bridges the gap and allows for transferring of electrons from one metal to the other which is what corrosion is the tendency for a man made thing to return to its natural state. In the case of the SB it is covered in zinc I dont remember if zinc is corrosive or not but the fact that it is disimilar and that its plating it could suggest that is why there is more corrosion on the SB then on the BB since the BB does not have a plating on it. I use to paint jets and have been to alot of corrosion schools, just do not remember all of the text book answers so my post isnt going to be 100% accurate but for the most part it is, Steel is corrosive which is why most industrial applications are stainless steel.
Whoops this is an Edit, just saw that the BB was more corroded, the SB might be just as corroded but you will not see this because of the plating on it. Just because it isnt as visible does not mean it is not there, just have to give it alittle for it to bulge through the zinc plating. |
| Also the poly and laquer coatings are to protect the steel casings from the environment, it acts like paint does for cars and aircraft, it is just another barrier to keep electrolytes and water out. That is why the one casing has corrosion on just the shoulder part there because the coating in that area has been removed in whatever manor, being dropped scratched while being installed into a magazine, what the case maybe. Other then the normal use of the poly coatings (allowing better feeding then a straight steel case). |
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Excellent post. It's a shame they ditched the "lacquer" coating for that polymer stuff. |
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Originally Posted By PAEBR332: Congratulations. This post has a created a stupidity event horizon from which no logic, reason or science will ever escape.
Originally Posted By PAEBR332: Congratulations. This post has a created a stupidity event horizon from which no logic, reason or science will ever escape.
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***UPDATE #2***
im putting some new ammo out in a lid where they will get half submerged when it rains and what not, same 3 as before, plus a yugo brass round...heres what the 3 from the other test looked like when i brought them inside.. BB Lacquer 
it had corroded considerably more all over, case, bullet, and primer all have more corrosion...im suprised at how bad it looks.. BB Polymer 
case had corroded considerably more and theres a little bit more around the primer.. Silver Bear 
it looks the same as before... im more impressed with the silver bear out of all 3...although all 3 will probably still load and fire...ill be checking that later on 
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I've noticed that any polymer coated steel cased ammo doesn't take long to rust after having been fired, so the test seems about right.
But I must say that I like the results of the Silver Bear. There's something to be said about that nickel plating. Thanks for doing this, OP. |
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Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Originally Posted By Gone_Shootin:
There's something to be said about that nickel plating. Onr thing that could be said is that it's zinc, not nickle. Oh okay? I wonder how they got it to have that silvery look like nickel? Because most of the zinc plating I've seen has more of a gold-ish tone with a green/blue thing going on, depending on how the light hits it..... |
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Originally Posted By Gone_Shootin:
Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Originally Posted By Gone_Shootin:
There's something to be said about that nickel plating. Onr thing that could be said is that it's zinc, not nickle. Oh okay? I wonder how they got it to have that silvery look like nickel? Because most of the zinc plating I've seen has more of a gold-ish tone with a green/blue thing going on, depending on how the light hits it..... i dont know anything about zinc plating, but this website says its available in silver, gold and black... http://www.zinccoaters.com.au/zinc-plating.asp also, ive read that the lacquer coated have sealed primers and case mouths, what about the silver bear? it looks to have sealant on the primer, but what about the case mouth? |
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Originally Posted By MattNificent:
Originally Posted By Gone_Shootin:
Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Originally Posted By Gone_Shootin:
There's something to be said about that nickel plating. Onr thing that could be said is that it's zinc, not nickle. Oh okay? I wonder how they got it to have that silvery look like nickel? Because most of the zinc plating I've seen has more of a gold-ish tone with a green/blue thing going on, depending on how the light hits it..... i dont know anything about zinc plating, but this website says its available in silver, gold and black... http://www.zinccoaters.com.au/zinc-plating.asp also, ive read that the lacquer coated have sealed primers and case mouths, what about the silver bear? it looks to have sealant on the primer, but what about the case mouth? Hmmm. Black plated rounds sound very intriguing. Nothing is better than making an AK more evil by feeding it ammo as black as its soul! |
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Originally Posted By Gone_Shootin:
Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Originally Posted By Gone_Shootin:
There's something to be said about that nickel plating. Onr thing that could be said is that it's zinc, not nickle. Oh okay? I wonder how they got it to have that silvery look like nickel? Because most of the zinc plating I've seen has more of a gold-ish tone with a green/blue thing going on, depending on how the light hits it..... You're thinking of cadmium plating like many auto parts. Silvery-gold with green/blue highlights. Zinc plating can be bright or matte depending on the process. Zinc plating is tremendously effective in rust resistance - it's called 'Galvanizing'. :) |
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Originally Posted By vr4rhoads:
Ok so the reason the BB is not as corroded is because it is a steel casing with its covering not sure if its laquer or poly either way it doesnt matter. the corrosion is cause by dissimilar metal contract, and electrolyte such as salt and water. The electrolyte bridges the gap and allows for transferring of electrons from one metal to the other which is what corrosion is the tendency for a man made thing to return to its natural state. In the case of the SB it is covered in zinc I dont remember if zinc is corrosive or not but the fact that it is disimilar and that its plating it could suggest that is why there is more corrosion on the SB then on the BB since the BB does not have a plating on it. I use to paint jets and have been to alot of corrosion schools, just do not remember all of the text book answers so my post isnt going to be 100% accurate but for the most part it is, Steel is corrosive which is why most industrial applications are stainless steel. Whoops this is an Edit, just saw that the BB was more corroded, the SB might be just as corroded but you will not see this because of the plating on it. Just because it isnt as visible does not mean it is not there, just have to give it alittle for it to bulge through the zinc plating. 1) The Silver Bear has a sealed primer. 2) The Zinc acts as a sacrificial anode. |
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If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
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Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Originally Posted By vr4rhoads:
Ok so the reason the BB is not as corroded is because it is a steel casing with its covering not sure if its laquer or poly either way it doesnt matter. the corrosion is cause by dissimilar metal contract, and electrolyte such as salt and water. The electrolyte bridges the gap and allows for transferring of electrons from one metal to the other which is what corrosion is the tendency for a man made thing to return to its natural state. In the case of the SB it is covered in zinc I dont remember if zinc is corrosive or not but the fact that it is disimilar and that its plating it could suggest that is why there is more corrosion on the SB then on the BB since the BB does not have a plating on it. I use to paint jets and have been to alot of corrosion schools, just do not remember all of the text book answers so my post isnt going to be 100% accurate but for the most part it is, Steel is corrosive which is why most industrial applications are stainless steel. Whoops this is an Edit, just saw that the BB was more corroded, the SB might be just as corroded but you will not see this because of the plating on it. Just because it isnt as visible does not mean it is not there, just have to give it alittle for it to bulge through the zinc plating. 1) The Silver Bear has a sealed primer. 2) The Zinc acts as a sacrificial anode. This. Why do they zinc plate the underside of bridges, again? |
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| I've shot BB one day, come back out a week latter after some rain and the casings were completely rusted out. I am surprised they lasted that long for you. |
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I did a ammo test like this with lacquer coated rounds, I used a 8mm, 7.62x39, and a 5.45 round. Been sitting outside for around 3yrs now, let me tell you after that long, the coating doesn't matter
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Originally Posted By jnk556:
I did a ammo test like this with lacquer coated rounds, I used a 8mm, 7.62x39, and a 5.45 round. Been sitting outside for around 3yrs now, let me tell you after that long, the coating doesn't matter
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h313/joe7170/100_0693.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h313/joe7170/100_0698.jpg Polish them up and fire them. I bet a wire brush and Flitz would do wonders. BTW. Dibs on guns and ammo. 
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Originally Posted By jnk556:
I did a ammo test like this with lacquer coated rounds, I used a 8mm, 7.62x39, and a 5.45 round. Been sitting outside for around 3yrs now, let me tell you after that long, the coating doesn't matter
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h313/joe7170/100_0693.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h313/joe7170/100_0698.jpg nice...after 3yrs outside id probably look like that too
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Originally Posted By aceranch:
Zinc plating can be gold or silver colored. For example, grade 8 fasteners are usually (not always) yellow zinc plated, grade 2 and 5 are silver or standard zinc plated. I think the gold grade 8's are Cadnuim plated. |
I suppose it is possible to convey more ignorance with less words, but I doubt I will ever see it in my lifetime.--Bohr Adam
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
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Originally Posted By TUBBY:
Originally Posted By jnk556:
I did a ammo test like this with lacquer coated rounds, I used a 8mm, 7.62x39, and a 5.45 round. Been sitting outside for around 3yrs now, let me tell you after that long, the coating doesn't matter
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h313/joe7170/100_0693.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h313/joe7170/100_0698.jpg Polish them up and fire them. I bet a wire brush and Flitz would do wonders. BTW. Dibs on guns and ammo. I thought of shooting them actually, maybe the 8mm, as it would be through a K98, that i know could take a case head separation, split neck, or something like that and survive. The 5.45, would have to be through my AR, and the 7.62 through one of my 2 AK's, and i ain't brave enough to do that to those guns
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Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
Just took this pic. This particular mag wasn't new as stated before, but it was the best example of rust from just handling the ammo long enough to load it into a mag. Again, stored in a humidity controlled safe. http://i55.tinypic.com/14jstib.jpg If I may ask what area of the country are you in? You don't have to say a state but just asking the general area NE, SE, Midwest.... so on. I live in NH (obviously  ) and keep all of my ammo in my basement. I run an AC unit in the summertime which takes care of the humidity down there, and nothing during the winter months. I've handled a bunch of my Wolf ammo and never had anything like what you're showing. I'm just wondering what kind of conditions you live in and were your hands sweaty when you loaded those mags to have caused that?
I've never had any of my ammo rust like that just from handling, maybe I've just been lucky. |
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Originally Posted By aceranch:
Zinc plating can be gold or silver colored. For example, grade 8 fasteners are usually (not always) yellow zinc plated, grade 2 and 5 are silver or standard zinc plated. True and not true at the same time  Yes, you can find zinc plated items that are gold or iridescent in color, but what you're looking at is zinc plating that has been through a chromate conversion process that gives added corrosion protection and turns the finish to a gold iridescent that does look like some cadmium platings (which have also been through a chromate conversion process as well). A plain zinc plating will initially be silver in color (matte or polished depending on the finish of the underlying surface). This silver look will eventually turn grey if exposed to the atmosphere as it oxidizes (think galvanized fence look). If you keep it dry and sealed in an ammo can it will likely stay bright silver for quite a long while. That white stuff you see around the primer is a heavier buildup of zinc oxide which is very white.
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had these rounds set up to where they would be half submerged while laying on there sides in a plastic coffee can lid...they are left - right BBL, BBP, SB..and the single round is a yugo brass cased..
BBL, BBP, SB 
BBL 
BBP 
SB 
YUGO 
as you can see, all the Bear ammo corroded. the silver bear doesnt "LOOK" as bad, but i think it has the same amount of corrosion, just not your typical "rust"...the yugo brass is fine, corrosion free, the brass case just darkened up a bit...so i think ill rate them: 1. Brass 2. SB 3. BBL 4. BBP i will try to get some different brands of lacquer coated ammo to see if there if a difference between them.. |
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Originally Posted By MattNificent:
bump to say all the rounds functioned in my wasr Just read this thread and that's exactly what I was going to ask.. do they still function and fire. Thanks for testing this. I wouldn't have expected you to try them after they're this bad, but I was curious if there was any penetration into the primer area even after the first test/OP timeframe. |
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thanks for the testing, good info, figured it would all still shoot well!
i wonder how the lacquer 7n6 fares compares to the brown bear? yugo looks great, definitely cant go wrong with milsurp brass...i have a bucket of loose 60-70 year old various 30-06 with some corrosion thats run fine through my remington 742 with no failures |
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Originally Posted By Gone_Shootin:
Oh okay? I wonder how they got it to have that silvery look like nickel? Because most of the zinc plating I've seen has more of a gold-ish tone with a green/blue thing going on, depending on how the light hits it..... Originally Posted By Gone_Shootin:
Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Originally Posted By Gone_Shootin:
There's something to be said about that nickel plating. Onr thing that could be said is that it's zinc, not nickle. Oh okay? I wonder how they got it to have that silvery look like nickel? Because most of the zinc plating I've seen has more of a gold-ish tone with a green/blue thing going on, depending on how the light hits it..... Galvanizing is probably the most common form of Zinc plating steel. Silver Bear has never been nickel plated. Always zinc. Zinc is a very soft metal and does not rust. Commonly used for rust proofing metal for outdoor applications. Chain link fence and fence posts are galvanized as an example of what it looks like. |
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Originally Posted By BroncoMafia:
Galvanizing is probably the most common form of Zinc plating steel. Silver Bear has never been nickel plated. Always zinc. Zinc is a very soft metal and does not rust. Commonly used for rust proofing metal for outdoor applications. Chain link fence and fence posts are galvanized as an example of what it looks like. Originally Posted By BroncoMafia:
Originally Posted By Gone_Shootin:
Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Originally Posted By Gone_Shootin:
There's something to be said about that nickel plating. Onr thing that could be said is that it's zinc, not nickle. Oh okay? I wonder how they got it to have that silvery look like nickel? Because most of the zinc plating I've seen has more of a gold-ish tone with a green/blue thing going on, depending on how the light hits it..... Galvanizing is probably the most common form of Zinc plating steel. Silver Bear has never been nickel plated. Always zinc. Zinc is a very soft metal and does not rust. Commonly used for rust proofing metal for outdoor applications. Chain link fence and fence posts are galvanized as an example of what it looks like. Wrong, I have some 2000 Production Silver Bear that is most definitely Nickel Plated. The very first lots of Silver Bear state it right on the box. |
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Brown Bear vs. Silver Bear corrosion***UPDATE #3*** pg.2 (Page 1 of 2)
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