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Anyone running a FRT? Let’s discuss. (Page 1 of 4)
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Posted: 1/19/2025 12:27:44 PM EDT
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My apologies if this is a duplicate post. I can’t find shit here regarding these. I’ll start with my first one, as there will be more to come. I picked up a Harrison Gunworks version because it was the lowest cost. It was put in a Maadi with a Tapco trigger. The fitting took about three to four hours. It’s a little tedious, but I don’t want to have to add steel back to parts. The metal removal for this was on the trigger. Other parts were polished with a sanding drum and the material removed would be measured with a micrometer. I got it working the way it should and took it out to test. I left it tight thinking it would wear in when firing, but that’s not the case. I had to do a little more fitting and polishing. Range trip two was a success right up to when it was not. The trip bar broke during mag number two.   I contacted the owner afterwards and asked about a replacement hoping that it could be warranted. After several emails I was told replacement parts would be made available for purchase in the future. I was going to fuse it back together, but it’s a little too cold right now. I ordered a second FRT from Deez Nutz Tactical to try out in the interim. I’ll compare the two and report back on that once it arrives. I’m also looking at getting a MARS from Alfa Tactical, as it’s a different type. It’s a little more expensive, but I want to make a comparison of different types with installation and durability to share with those who are interested. More to follow. |
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: It’s machined and hardened. Sintered metal wouldn’t hold up to two rounds, let alone almost two mags. The second set from DNT looks identical in the pictures. I’m planning on measuring both to verify that. You would be very wrong with your metallurgy. Lots of very high impact parts are sintered. I'm not saying this part is sintered as I don't have one on hand to inspect. The failure looks very brittle but also looks smooth and uniform like it was hit from the side. It also appears to have a void in the middle which tells me cast and not machined. |
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: My apologies if this is a duplicate post. I can’t find shit here regarding these. I’ll start with my first one, as there will be more to come. I picked up a Harrison Gunworks version because it was the lowest cost. It was put in a Maadi with a Tapco trigger. The fitting took about three to four hours. It’s a little tedious, but I don’t want to have to add steel back to parts. The metal removal for this was on the trigger. Other parts were polished with a sanding drum and the material removed would be measured with a micrometer. I got it working the way it should and took it out to test. I left it tight thinking it would wear in when firing, but that’s not the case. I had to do a little more fitting and polishing. Range trip two was a success right up to when it was not. The trip bar broke during mag number two. https://i.postimg.cc/6psmbGVW/IMG-3141.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/L6gWVV1Q/IMG-3142.jpg I contacted the owner afterwards and asked about a replacement hoping that it could be warranted. After several emails I was told replacement parts would be made available for purchase in the future. I was going to fuse it back together, but it’s a little too cold right now. I ordered a second FRT from Deez Nutz Tactical to try out in the interim. I’ll compare the two and report back on that once it arrives. I’m also looking at getting a MARS from Alfa Tactical, as it’s a different type. It’s a little more expensive, but I want to make a comparison of different types with installation and durability to share with those who are interested. More to follow. The problem is the quality itself. He has all his parts made in China |
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I have a couple from Harrison GW, one is running 100% in my alpha clone, and I'm working on getting one to run in my milled DDI bulgy underfolder, for some reason the trip bar was too long so it won't catch the cam. So need to add material to the trip bar. Originally Posted By KDG_Dave: The problem is the quality itself. He has all his parts made in China Originally Posted By KDG_Dave: Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: My apologies if this is a duplicate post. I can’t find shit here regarding these. I’ll start with my first one, as there will be more to come. I picked up a Harrison Gunworks version because it was the lowest cost. It was put in a Maadi with a Tapco trigger. The fitting took about three to four hours. It’s a little tedious, but I don’t want to have to add steel back to parts. The metal removal for this was on the trigger. Other parts were polished with a sanding drum and the material removed would be measured with a micrometer. I got it working the way it should and took it out to test. I left it tight thinking it would wear in when firing, but that’s not the case. I had to do a little more fitting and polishing. Range trip two was a success right up to when it was not. The trip bar broke during mag number two. https://i.postimg.cc/6psmbGVW/IMG-3141.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/L6gWVV1Q/IMG-3142.jpg I contacted the owner afterwards and asked about a replacement hoping that it could be warranted. After several emails I was told replacement parts would be made available for purchase in the future. I was going to fuse it back together, but it’s a little too cold right now. I ordered a second FRT from Deez Nutz Tactical to try out in the interim. I’ll compare the two and report back on that once it arrives. I’m also looking at getting a MARS from Alfa Tactical, as it’s a different type. It’s a little more expensive, but I want to make a comparison of different types with installation and durability to share with those who are interested. More to follow. The problem is the quality itself. He has all his parts made in China I think all of them do, DNT, Polymerpew, and Harrison. Which is why they're priced at around 150. I'd bet theyre getting them made for $50? They're all the same except Polymer pew's, he's still using the 1st gen. |
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Originally Posted By Deerhurst: You would be very wrong with your metallurgy. Lots of very high impact parts are sintered. I'm not saying this part is sintered as I don't have one on hand to inspect. The failure looks very brittle but also looks smooth and uniform like it was hit from the side. It also appears to have a void in the middle which tells me cast and not machined. I could be wrong, but the broken part I have isn’t sintered, wasn’t impacted from the side and was machined, likely CNC’d. It broke at the thinnest point and where the carrier contacts it to trip the cam. It could be cast, but I don’t see any voids on the break. The picture is a little deceptive and there’s contamination from the lubricant in the break. If it’s from China, it could be made out of anything, lol! |
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OP could you maybe do a high-res picture of the broken ends themselves facing the camera? We've got a lot of talented bladesmiths here like Dfarm and Double-plus-good who might can eyeball that and give some insight. |
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Originally Posted By Dragynn: OP could you maybe do a high-res picture of the broken ends themselves facing the camera? We've got a lot of talented bladesmiths here like Dfarm and Double-plus-good who might can eyeball that and give some insight. Hey boss! This is the best I can do with what I have.  |
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Got the set from DNT today. The parts are identical and I would be willing to bet they are from the same manufacturer. That aside, the new set was packed in a faux Pelican case which was a nice touch. I may have found what caused the breakage in the HGW set. The carrier was about 1/32” to 1/16” from contacting the trunnion on the left side where it otherwise would be resting. I removed enough material from the carrier lower rail guide to make it come to a rest on the trunnion like it does minus the parts. This, while not removing too much to keep the trip from tripping. I’ll run some more mags through it this weekend to see if that solves the breakage. I ordered the MARS FRT this last weekend (accidentally ordered two) and they should be here before the weekend as well. I’ll try to get one fitted and installed to test. More to follow… |
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: Hey boss! This is the best I can do with what I have. https://i.postimg.cc/cJz1V02G/IMG-3158.jpg Originally Posted By Dragynn: @DFARM can you take a look at the pic Op just posted and tell anything about that grain structure and why it may have failed? The grain looks big. I'm not sure there's enough information in that picture to tell what's going on. Maybe @kuraki can weigh in a little better than I can. I'm not sure there's much for us to gain by figuring it out, aside from learning for the sake of learning though. It sounds like the company isn't replacing it and the op has already bought a different trigger. |
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What is the function? I'm unfamiliar with AK FRTs. If you asked me just looking at the second pic it looks like it was pulled apart under tension and that's why it looks like larger grain. Is that a trip bar in the same sense as how a sear trip on an AR bcg works? Meaning that catches something as the bolt reaches home? |
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Sorry, been busy with work. I’ll get some pics later this week or weekend. I’m going to try to get the broken part welded back together. My wire feed will make a mess of it so I don’t want to try. The part that looks peened is where the carrier contacts it to release the trigger cam. That was where it was coming to a complete stop instead of on the trunnion. I fixed that and I should be good to go. To be continued… |
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Got out this morning and ran the DNT frt and it too broke at the same place the other one did with only 20 rounds. Everything was fine as far as fitting is concerned. There’s just not enough material there to keep it from breaking. I got back and put in the new set from Alfa. In comparison, it was completely drop in with no fitting involved. I won’t know how it works until I get out again, probably next weekend. |
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Originally Posted By walkinginadangerzone: Damn, can't believe you broke two trip bars. Any chance you got video of you firing it before it broke? No video…I was out alone. It behaved fine and I didn’t notice the break until I got home and took it apart. It must have shit the bed after the last shot, as the hammer dropped on an empty chamber. |
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Originally Posted By ARguy: Ive got one of the DNT ones but Im not exactly sure how this fits together in the gun, hence the request for pictures of it installed. With your bad luck on breaking two of them, I might just hold off a while to see how these shake out. Go here. This will walk you through it. It’s the same as the DNT. I think the Maadi I have mine in is cursed. I’ll see if the Mars unit does better this weekend. |
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: No video…I was out alone. It behaved fine and I didn’t notice the break until I got home and took it apart. It must have shit the bed after the last shot, as the hammer dropped on an empty chamber. Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: Originally Posted By walkinginadangerzone: Damn, can't believe you broke two trip bars. Any chance you got video of you firing it before it broke? No video…I was out alone. It behaved fine and I didn’t notice the break until I got home and took it apart. It must have shit the bed after the last shot, as the hammer dropped on an empty chamber. Weird. |
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Originally Posted By Lokjell: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/25385/1000020952_jpg-3456299.JPG Just saw this on twitter... |
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Originally Posted By Lokjell: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/25385/1000020952_jpg-3456299.JPG Just saw this on twitter... That design is actually a DIAS style kit, it trips the disconnector and is a MG. |
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Originally Posted By Lokjell: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/25385/1000020952_jpg-3456299.JPG Just saw this on twitter... Just note, s3igu2 released an AK DIAS and an AK FRT. The one pictured in the atf memo is the DIAS, not the super safety.  
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Originally Posted By walkinginadangerzone: Just note, s3igu2 released an AK DIAS and an AK FRT. The one pictured in the atf memo is the DIAS, not the super safety. https://i.imgur.com/e8MxDRs.jpg https://i.imgur.com/RmHsd6D.jpg Do you have any 3d images like that of the super safety? |
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Neither of the two sets I have are a DIAS. The one that keeps breaking is the one that is pictured first. It has no interaction with the disconnector. The Mars set has a piece that replaces the disconnector that is contacted by the hammer to reset the trigger. I’m going to try this one out this weekend and see if it survives more than two mags worth of ammo. |
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Originally Posted By Lokjell: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/25385/1000020952_jpg-3456299.JPG Just saw this on twitter... Well now that diagram and description there is the reason ATF keeps getting their asses handed to them in court. Nice that they fail to mention there are two totally different cam designs- one of which is the “super safety” FRT type and the other an actual DIAS. So the average person sees FRT type, makes an arrest, and someone gets to spend a lot of money on lawyers because ATF was sloppy (at best) or was lying intentionally (at worst). If you are going to make a tech sheet press release, it would be really helpful if you were fully truthful. Only an idiot would call the DIAS design a super safety (FRT). I mean, if I call a 16” semi auto AR15 an “M16” does that make it so? I mean they look a lot alike, use the same parts….but the mechanism of operation, legally speaking, is different. I mean they almost got that tech sheet correct- the DIAS would be illegal. But then they call it a super safety…which has never been applied to anything but an FRT type device by the folks designing and making them. Someone should be fired over this kind of bullshit. They could have put out the same information, called it the DIAS, and mentioned in a side note that some idiots might call it a Super Safety, but mention the difference between the two types. But nope- they are setting folks up to make bad arrests instead by failing to mention the FRT device at all. Not cool… |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: Neither of the two sets I have are a DIAS. The one that keeps breaking is the one that is pictured first. It has no interaction with the disconnector. The Mars set has a piece that replaces the disconnector that is contacted by the hammer to reset the trigger. I’m going to try this one out this weekend and see if it survives more than two mags worth of ammo. Any update as to whether the MARS FRT survived? 
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The Egyptian bolt carrier was causing some problems this last weekend. I swapped it out with another and made a new transfer bar out of some spring steel. I will be back out this weekend to see how it behaves. I had the broken transfer bar from the HGW set fused back together. I’m fitting it into the AOW and might try it out tomorrow if I get a few minutes. If not, it’ll be this weekend as well. I’ll post if it’s successful. If there are any questions about fitting these, I can answer them when I’m on. |
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After some more trial and error, I got it all sorted out. The HGW/DNT style has the wrong trigger profile for the cam to interface. I burned through three triggers getting the profile corrected. Shortening the trigger is wrong with the cam. Taking material off the top and working your way forward makes the cam reset the trigger and hold it. I used the welded trip bar and only did five rounds…one mag with two and another with three. Functioned perfectly in the AOW!! The only complaint is the trigger slap being a bit much. The Maadi carrier wasn’t working due to the contact surface where it interfaces with the trip being fooked up. I traded it with one from the RPK. I also made a longer transfer bar to fit it, as the carrier wasn’t resting on the trunnion again when in battery. Due to time restraints, as with above, I ran a mag of six and another five round dump. I was able to squeeze off doubles easily and the last five was a dump, just because. This is the Mars trigger and there’s really no perceived slap. It’s a simpler and, in my opinion, a superior design. The $200 price is worth it compared to the other shit where they offer no replacement parts. DNT doesn’t even respond. I did find replacements for the HGW/DNT style at https://www.supersafetyshop.com/. Yeah, it looks sketchy, but I emailed the guy and he responded immediately. Responded in ‘Murican and was honest with me whether or not he thought his will work. He did say that the HGW/DNT is a knock off so he wasn’t sure. Traded a few more emails and decided that I needed a SS for the KS-47 and ordered that shit too, LOL! Will report back when I get these parts and get a better chance to run what I have a little more thoroughly. I’ll get some pictures of the correct trigger profile when I tear apart the AOW. Here’s the Mars kit as received:  |
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I'd refer you to what happened in "Unintended Consequences" when "someone" asked the protagonist about FA conversions, OP! Just sayin'! LMFAO ETA: J/K! |
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Originally Posted By Former11BRAVO: I'd refer you to what happened in "Unintended Consequences" when "someone" asked the protagonist about FA conversions, OP! Just sayin'! LMFAO ETA: J/K! I’ve read the book. The bolt carrier is “forcing” the trigger to reset with both FRTs. I’ve held a C2 manufacturers license and these, by definition, are not conversion devices. Nothing acts on the disconnector, unlike the misinformation dispensed by the atf to confuse leos. I’m not a fukn idiot. I’ve got four transferables, a bunch of other shit and no desire to jeopardize my wife unit and her cats. No plans on feeding hogs. Just spreading, currently, lawful information. Never had, or will have a boating accident, etc. Do with it as you will.  |
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Originally Posted By Former11BRAVO: I'd refer you to what happened in "Unintended Consequences" when "someone" asked the protagonist about FA conversions, OP! Just sayin'! LMFAO ETA: J/K! You must have missed the ATF memo last week where they threw in the towel and admitted that forced reset triggers have been deemed legal. Which is another reason why that memo that conflates a DIAS and a SS is way out of line. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/rare-breed-triggers%E2%80%99-frt-15s-and-wide-open-triggers-wots-return Rare Breed Triggers’ FRT-15s and Wide-Open Triggers (WOTs) Return UPDATE As part of a recall effort, individuals may have received a Warning Notice entitled “You May Be In Violation Of Federal Law” from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) regarding Forced Reset Trigger (FRT) devices. The Warning Notice stated that FRTs had been classified by ATF as machineguns pursuant to the National Firearms Act (NFA), their manufacture was unlawful, and thus possession was unlawful under both the NFA and Gun Control Act. On July 23, 2024, the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas held in National Association for Gun Rights, et al. v. Garland that Rare Breed FRT-15s and Wide-Open Triggers (WOTs) are not machineguns under the NFA and as such, their possession is not in violation of Federal law. This posting provides notification of this judicial decision. However, please note some states independently prohibit the possession of forced reset triggers or trigger activating devices. ATF has begun sending notices to owners of Forced Reset Triggers, specifically Rare Breed Triggers’ FRT-15s and Wide-Open Triggers (WOTs) in ATF custody that were seized as part of an earlier recall effort with instructions to request their return. On July 23, 2024, in National Association for Gun Rights, et al. v. Garland (N.D. Tex.), the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas ordered the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to “return to all parties, including manufacturers, distributors, resellers, and individuals, all FRTs and FRT components confiscated or seized” specifically the following forced reset triggers (FRTs): Rare Breed Triggers FRT-15s (FRT-15) and Wide Open Triggers (WOT). The court order requiring return of certain FRTs only applies to the parties to the litigation, specifically the three named individual plaintiffs, and commercial and individual members as of August 9, 2023, of two organizations: National Association for Gun Rights (“NAGR”) and Texas Gun Rights (“TGR”). Additionally, persons prohibited from possessing firearms are not covered by this order. Please note some states independently prohibit the possession of forced reset triggers or trigger activating devices. If you believe that you are an affected party, if you have any questions, please email [email protected](link sends e-mail). |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Still haven’t gotten out to thoroughly vet the two different FRTs. Maybe this weekend. I did try to fit the DNT/HGW style FRT in a ‘74. The rear trunnion interferes with the cam and I have no desire to modify either at this point. I will try the Mars trigger eventually. I’m not in a rush to burn through the 5,45 that I have rat holed, but it will probably work without any modifications to the cam and/or rear trunnion. |
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I bought a DNT Super Safety to try out in my PSA GF5 AK and it's been nothing but a hand-fitting headache to diagnose why it won't run. Couple that with no installation instructions provided and it took them 2 weeks to even ship it. I really should've bought the MARs trigger. After messing with this one and looking at it in detail, it seems like the MARS might address a few of the problems I'm having like cam wobble (which I tried to fix with a fabricated spacer) and the trip bar sometimes slipping out of the spot it's supposed to be in. I also had to grind the shit out of the top of the cam to even get my bolt carrier back into the receiver, and even now if I hold the trigger just a touch too tight the bolt carrier will get stuck to the rear. |
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Originally Posted By Willisinnawoods: I bought a DNT Super Safety to try out in my PSA GF5 AK and it's been nothing but a hand-fitting headache to diagnose why it won't run. Couple that with no installation instructions provided and it took them 2 weeks to even ship it. I really should've bought the MARs trigger. After messing with this one and looking at it in detail, it seems like the MARS might address a few of the problems I'm having like cam wobble (which I tried to fix with a fabricated spacer) and the trip bar sometimes slipping out of the spot it's supposed to be in. I also had to grind the shit out of the top of the cam to even get my bolt carrier back into the receiver, and even now if I hold the trigger just a touch too tight the bolt carrier will get stuck to the rear. Darn - I have my DNT AK kit and haven't tried it yet - I was hoping that others would have figured it out and given me an easier go at it. What are you using as a spacer? Washers? I guess I won't try it on my PSA 104 SBR, I still might Try it on a Romy kit build - That has got to be close to standard AK specs for a base attempt. |
Anyone running a FRT? Let’s discuss. (Page 1 of 4)
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