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Posted: 10/24/2024 12:24:46 AM EDT
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Hey y'all, I'm looking to select ammo to load my home defense gun, which is an 11.5" (1/7 twist) 5.56 AR pistol with a suppressor. I live in an urban area with close neighbors and have kids. I know any ammo that is sufficient for HD purposes is still going to be dangerous through a wall or two ... or three ... in case of careless placement/ a missed shot. But I'm nonetheless trying to choose my ammo with that possibility in mind. In the "Best Choices" guide and elsewhere, a lot of the suggestions I've seen are heavier OTM loads. (Or Hornady's 75gr SBR.) BUT... given my barrel length and overpen concerns, I'm thinking a lighter and faster round is a better fit for my situation? Less likely to make it through multiple walls or into a neighbor's house intact? I was specifically thinking of a 55gr soft point loaded to 5.56 (rather than .223) specs. Or hell just using my M193s, which might give me max velocity and fragment well at HD distances (realistically under 15 yards, if that)? Does my thinking make sense? Does anyone have any recs? |
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Generally speaking, I think bullet construction is a lot more important to barrier penetration than weight. Many barrier blind loads are bonded jacketed soft points (which are designed to stay together and not fragment), so if you’re concerned about overpenetration, I wouldn’t be looking at any soft points. |
| Any round that can stop a threat will penetrate walls and other objects in and around the home. 55gr Soft point typically isn’t on the approved list of defense/duty rounds although I have heard it discussed that in shorter barrels it doesn’t drag as much and may get more penetration. When I lived in a more urban environment I went with 64gr JSP they meet the requirements for a fragmenting load and are easy to come by and not too pricey |
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Quoted: MK255 RRLP (reduced ricochet limited penetration) is what you seek. It's a 62gr "frangible" bullet designed for cqb/ low penetration applications. All copper, not like the 52gr ceramic tipped frange crap. How much you looking for? That round was designed for very specific purposes by operators, primarily for training. I doubt anyone would be using that for 1º self defense. First and foremost you must incapacitate the target which means center mass penetration or direct CNS hit. |
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I would get the best load for your specific rifle/barrel and intended range (I assume 100 yards or less). #2 priority would be to get very familiar with your AO, likely threats, avenues of approach, where you might be shooting from/towards, building material for your house, surrounding homes...etc. #87 priority would be over penetration unless you are talking 12GA slugs, 7.62X39 or 308 FMJ loads. I personally prefer lighter bullets, especially in shorter barrels. 55gr Gameking, 55gr Federal Tactical Bonded, 55gr Gold Dot or 55gr Hornady SP. p.s. you will probably have a hard time finding an SP load in 556 vs 223 since an SP works perfectly well in 223 pressure and the bullets are designed around 223 velocity. My agency issued the 55gr Fed. Tactical with the gameking bullet. We had numerous OIS from all sorts of distances and intermediate barriers and I have never heard of a single failure (under penetration or over). I've only ever shot a coyote with this load though but it is very accurate. |
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Quoted: I would get the best load for your specific rifle/barrel and intended range (I assume 100 yards or less). #2 priority would be to get very familiar with your AO, likely threats, avenues of approach, where you might be shooting from/towards, building material for your house, surrounding homes...etc. #87 priority would be over penetration unless you are talking 12GA slugs, 7.62X39 or 308 FMJ loads. I personally prefer lighter bullets, especially in shorter barrels. 55gr Gameking, 55gr Federal Tactical Bonded, 55gr Gold Dot or 55gr Hornady SP. p.s. you will probably have a hard time finding an SP load in 556 vs 223 since an SP works perfectly well in 223 pressure and the bullets are designed around 223 velocity. My agency issued the 55gr Fed. Tactical with the gameking bullet. We had numerous OIS from all sorts of distances and intermediate barriers and I have never heard of a single failure (under penetration or over). I've only ever shot a coyote with this load though but it is very accurate. As someone mentioned earlier tho it seems like bonded soft points are somewhat barrier blind? It seems like heavier poly tip loads might actually be better? An additional wrinkle here is I practice with 223 FMJ and M193. |
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Quoted: As someone mentioned earlier tho it seems like bonded soft points are somewhat barrier blind? It seems like heavier poly tip loads might actually be better? An additional wrinkle here is I practice with 223 FMJ and M193. Even with a tough bonded soft point like the 62gr TBBC having the projectile pass though and do any damage after hitting your target is slim. Any round that doesn’t hit the target is a risk there is no magic round that will break up and not penetrate interior walls of a home and still stop a threat. Yes heavy PT load like the 77gr TMK or OTM do meet the minimum requirement for penetration on non obstructed shot but tend to not do as well when any form of barrier is involved even an extended arm it may limited penetration into the intended target. That doesn’t mean that non barrier rounds are a bad choice just understand the limitations. I am not one who is concerned with the over penetration boogie man anymore and prefer 75gr Gold dot. I also like you primarily use 55gr FMJ for practice. Zero my carbine with the 75gr then shoot 55gr most of the time out to 100 yards POI isn’t that far off easy to get good hits with 55gr. As previously mentioned by another post in the forum get some ammo for defense see how your specific barrel likes it. If you still prefer 55gr most everything mentioned here would be worth a try in your gun. 55gr Gold Dot could also be a decent option still easy to find and isn’t the deepest penetrator in the gold dot line up. |
Don't overthink it. 20 years ago the SWAT (one of the only FT SWAT divisions in the country at the time that also had multiple squads on duty 24/7) guys that taught our carbine course advised us lowly patrolman to just carry regular 55 SP. They said it just performs well and doesn't over-P as badly as boutique stuff. They showed us a vid where they gut shot a guy with one round rushing a negotiator with a hatchet and it didn't exit, he dropped instantly and DRT'd on scene. It was 20-25' shot IIRC. Saving the case of barrier blind stuff I have for the zombie invasion  .
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Hornady 55gr TAP Urban is a good choice. https://www.hornadyle.com/rifle-ammunition/55-gr-tap-urban#!/ |
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Quoted: Hornady 55gr TAP Urban is a good choice. https://www.hornadyle.com/rifle-ammunition/55-gr-tap-urban#!/ OP would be better off using M193. It’s well know that 40gr-60gr TAP/Vmax is terrible choice for Defense/Duty use. |
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Quoted: OP would be better off using M193. It’s well know that 40gr-60gr TAP/Vmax is terrible choice for Defense/Duty use. They are a terrible choice compared to many other options, but it depends on what his priorities are. For example, I have seen 75 TAP go through two layers of drywall and kill a guy. I would definitely pick 75 TAP, and several others, over 55 TAP for my purposes. On the other hand I guarantee a 55 TAP would stop someone in their tracks with appropriate placement. Again, individual priorities. |
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Quoted: Hornady 55gr TAP Urban is a good choice. https://www.hornadyle.com/rifle-ammunition/55-gr-tap-urban#!/ My old agency was a bit spastic on spec ammo for issue. The Tap Urban was one of the issue rounds. Then a generic FMJ. Before that when it was my gun and my choice ammo I used Winchester LE 64 soft points. I want to say at one point they also issued the 64 grain Winchester loads. |
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Quoted: They are a terrible choice compared to many other options, but it depends on what his priorities are. For example, I have seen 75 TAP go through two layers of drywall and kill a guy. I would definitely pick 75 TAP, and several others, over 55 TAP for my purposes. On the other hand I guarantee a 55 TAP would stop someone in their tracks with appropriate placement. Again, individual priorities. I have seen stuff like that as well. Rounds that are should as stops the threat in one stop but pass tough an entire gel block and the safety backers or through dry wall and would still be a serious danger to others on the other side . Terminal ballistic is interesting like that. I also will not argue that good shot placement is paramount. A good hit with a 55gr Vmax is better than a miss with a 75gr Gold dot. |
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Quoted: I have seen stuff like that as well. Rounds that are should as stops the threat in one stop but pass tough an entire gel block and the safety backers or through dry wall and would still be a serious danger to others on the other side . Terminal ballistic is interesting like that. I also will not argue that good shot placement is paramount. A good hit with a 55gr Vmax is better than a miss with a 75gr Gold dot. Op I would avoid 55 FMJ since its performance will be erratic. It may frag or it may icepick through. Granted I would (and have) feel perfectly comfortable carrying M193 in my mags but with so many better options, it would be sub-optimal. With the only possible benefit being if actually forced to shoot someone in an HD/SD scenario, it would be harder to convince a jury of non-gun idiots that you were looking to "remove meat from bone". We ARE talking about shooting 2 legged predators with a rifle at close range so it will work. Just get any Gold Dot load and meet us over at the optics forum for the LPVO .vs RDS .vs ACOG etc threads... |
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