Sending back my second MRO on Monday. Keeping my American Defense mount for it in case Trijicon admits theY have problems and puts out a quality unit.

I definitely think the MROs I've seen would be fine on the range/in the real world, and that most people wouldn't have a problem with them if it was all they had.
The problem to me is that I've seen a T2 and know what a red dot CAN look like.  But even all the RMRs I've seen (about 9 of them) have had some magnification and tint.

I think it's just a matter of using them and getting used to them instead of looking for a $700 RDS in a $525 package.
The FOV is nice enough to cancel out a tiny bit of magnification for a lot of people, and the tint and glare of the 3 MROs I've seen were on par with a T1/RMR.

To me, because I primarily care about weight and price (and mostly reliability), it seems to fit a niche between PA/HOLOSUN > MEPRO RDS > MRO > T1 > T2.  (I leave Eotechs out ever since an EXPS crapped out on me on a 22LR upper AND the MEPRO is a cheaper unit I trust more--BUT Eotechs are in there at different places for different folks.)

Maybe a lot of people get samples and want to keep getting them, so they are afraid to bad mouth people too bad.

I trust "industry" reviews about as far as I can throw them. People on forums are far more likely to give an honest review.

When Trijicon sends an optic to these guys, I guarantee it gets special treatment and looked over a dozen times before they send it out. Also, how much do you actually trust Tim from M.A.C. when he keeps pushing Huntertown Arms and their products every time they come out with something new. Again, Tim gets special treatment. If he has a problem with Huntertown, it gets fixed. If you or I have a problem with Huntertown, all we hear are crickets.

Ehh..  I take that with a grain of salt; much like the forum reviews and the Youtube reviews.  I've seen Tim tell it how it is on plenty of items, however you may be right on his support.  My personal opinion is..  Made in USA is great with rifles/handguns/AR's and anything machined.  When it comes to optics and electronics..  Over priced and quality control is just not the same as over seas.    

This is why I bought a T2 instead of the MRO and haven't looked back.

I'm not convinced (without a doubt, now that I've fired it) there are really issues that hurt my performance. That's what I was saying. Just maybe too many of us spending too much time looking at it aimed at a wall instead of putting rounds on target.

This. Mine does have the issues, but does not bother me enough to want to get rid of it. I fired a few hundred rounds using it so far and it's been fine.

I don't do what I do for free stuff. I couldn't care less about getting free stuff. Sig thinks I'm an a-hole because I call them on their constant quality issues I have with their products, Kel-Tec embraces me despite the fact I've called them in the past on their issues (they get it), Remington probably has a hit out on me for busting their chops on the R51 when everyone else was singing it's praises. Alex Robinson mother !@#$'s me every chance he gets. I am NOT for sale and if you follow me, you already know that.




I have a sample set of one MRO that was sent to me for testing by Trijicon. Since getting it and doing my initial thoughts video, I've seen several returned to my local gun shop. I've seen two with dead dots (wouldn't power up) and two that had faint dots that were barely visible in daylight. One was sent back to Trijicon for repairs and they sent a new unit, the new unit had the same problem. The others were returned to the gun shop for exchange or a refund. I'm hoping these are early production issues and Trijicon gets the kinks ironed out quickly.

With that being said, I have some concerns about the QC of these sights and the consistency in their production quality. I recently did a top 5 picks video for 2015 and the reason the MRO wasn't included is because of these issues.  I do plan to make a follow-up video discussing these concerns.

I was one of the first critics of the SRS and even mention that in my MRO video. The SRS was a total mess. I have high hopes for the MRO, but keep in mind my initial video was just that -- an initial impressions video of a single unit that continues to work fine. That's not representative of what people are seeing in the field it seems. I also said I wanted to get a second one to beat on to see how well it held up, I've not yet been able to get a second one.

As for the color shift and slight distortion of the image through the sight, I put zero stock in any of that. Shoot it with both eyes open and the sight looks good (which is the way it was meant to be used). Every sight I own has similiar "issues" to some degree. As for the functional issues, that's totally different and I have the same concerns others do about that.






 

Got to put a few rounds "on the clock" though MROs mounted on an AR and a Tavor at the Trijicon shoot last week.  I'm pretty impressed.  I'm thinking about picking one up for the "close-in" optic on my Open rifle.  

I actually wish they would do a 4 MOA version...

I think the sight has a lot of promise if they can work some of the kinks out I've seen. At the price point they're offering them at and with the features they have, they would be hot sellers and take a serious bite out of both the Aimpoint market and even the affordable dot makers market. The little stuff I see being repeated about them doesn't bother me and honestly it never occurred to me until I saw others bringing it up. I shoot with both eyes open and I don't sit for extended periods of time peering through red dot sights with one eye closed looking for slight color shifts or .5x magnification. I take them out, open both eyes and shoot them as intended. When used in this way the MRO works great and I honestly like the field of view.

 

Shooting with both eyes open is precisely when that slight magnification becomes an issue.

I shoot with both eyes open also with a red dot. I think everyone does. But when you have one eye seeing true 1x and you have another seeing 1.25x (just a guess), it confuses the hell out of your (mine, at least) eyes/brain.

The whole time I was going both eyes open my brain couldn't decide which to focus through. It was really distracting.

It may not be a problem for you, or your example may be a lot better than mine was, but for you to basically just write that off as a non issue is a little short sighted.

My problem with isn't even the magnification at all....it is really that Trijicon marketed the sight as 1x and not 1.whateverX

I don't remember if you posted this in the thread earlier, but did you actually go shooting with the MRO or just mount it in your living room?

If the MRO was magnified I would not be able to shoot my iron sights with the optic mounted without a change in the point of impact.  Does the fact that the T2 causes an optical shift with iron sights mean that the T2 is magnified?  Aimpoint T2 Thread

Came to post the exact same thread.

I've used many optics over the years with a slight magnification even though they're advertised as 1x (take the SpecterDR as an example) and have never had an issue nor has anyone I've let use the sight that I can recall.  Most RDS's will have some optical shift when looking through them and most will also have some parallax issues despite being marketed as "parallax free" (take the Aimpoint RDS's as an example).





As for me writing it off, well, given I've let at least 20 people shoot with the sight on my rifle and not a single one has reported your issue I would say I have no way of predicting what conditions/issues some shooters might have. Some shooters can't use tritium sights, but that doesn't make tritium sights bad. Some shooters are left eye dominate, right handed and are forced to shoot left handed, but that doesn't make the AR15 a bad rifle just because it's not the most lefty friendly long gun on the market. I'm not going to give products low marks because a minority of users have an issue I can't predict or replicate.


 

They also fishbowl so badly that it would give you a headache looking through it with one eye closed. But with both eyes open the dot magically works, and quite well, despite the fact there are distortions in color and image when looking through it.

 

Anyone remember the Armason OEG?  I wonder how many people complained because if you closed one eye all you could see was a black circle with a dot in the middle.    I remember trying to teach people how to use it and I recall many people saying "there's no way that thing actually works" -- but yet it did if used properly. I wish I still had one, what a cool piece of firearms history.

The T2 does have a shift, but it doesn't appear to have any magnification at all to my eyes. It is just like looking through a tube of toilet paper for me. Absolute, true 1x.


The optical shift for the irons doesn't bother me just because of the QD mounts. If my dot goes down, I'd yank it off and run just irons. Makes no sense to look through a busted optic to shoot, and also carry around useless weight on the rifle. That's just how I do it, though.

Yeah, I totally get that and I'm with you -- the "issue" with RDS's like the T1/T2 aren't really issues. As long as you're aware of their limitations and plan accordingly, they're still the best RDS on the market IMHO.

 

I still believe the MRO has the potential to go far. I will keep playing with them and my current plan is to buy them vs. Aimpoints given the savings. I have a lot of firearms to put sights on... and it's painful. But at the current dealer pricing (I'm a dealer, yippee) it's hard to pass them up. If I encounter any issues I will of course report them.

I agree with you. I have no prejudices against the MRO. I love trijicon, so if anything I might have a little of a positive bias towards them.


I'll keep watching the MRO, and if things start to turn around I'll get another one and enjoy it.

We aren't all lucky enough to be Tim from M.A.C. and get special treatment. Some of us did have legitimate issues. My MRO had ghosting so bad that you could hardly find the dot when it was on the max brightness setting. The optic you received just happened to be one without issues (imagine that). Have somebody send you their MRO that has issues and do a review on that optic. I would gladly send you mine if I hadn't already sent two of them back. Your blissful ignorance of your industry status is why I no longer follow your channel. How about you remind us again how amazing Huntertown is?

I may have found what caused your issue...

I didn't immediately start on setting 6. I started on setting 3. The brightness level of the ghosting was independent of the brightness setting of the dot.

I got mine today from MidwayUSA (cancelled my SWFA order) and have to say so far I am happy with it. I immediately put it on my rifle as far forward as I could and walked around the house and then outside in the backyard but I see no real  issues with the optic, I'd say at most 1.1 magnification?

Where the optic is mounted


Inside Pics


Outside Pics


There was one angle with the sun in front of me, if I aimed the rifle at the sky I would then see the some ghosting but it was hard to replicate. I will report back after I shoot the hell out of it.

*Edit, I can't get the images to show up without the need for a link. Sorry

This post looks promising.

Thanks for the pics, which height mount is that?

You'll be SOL when Sky Ninjas attack. You'd better send that defective MRO to me for proper disposal.

It's your funeral.













Pics work fine. Looks good to me.

Some pics took through my MRO and my T1
As we can see,there is a magnification
To figure it,i drew a line inside the MRO and it measures 105 pixels instead of 100 pixels outside the MRO FOV (so my magnification is approximatly X1.05 or 1.1)
It's not super reliable but it gives an idea.

Looks like 1.5 magnification.

I don't really see magnification, more like an optical illusion. The image through the MRO is more distorted vs the aimpoint, probably due to the wider objective vs eyepiece, or just the FoV. If you take the MRO image with the outside image and "stitch" them together they will match up almost perfectly. I don't have photoshop, so I used windows paint and matched up the lines (hope you don't mind):



Now it doesn't look magnified. I couldn't do the aimpoint for a side by side, because there isn't a straight across line like in the pic I edited, I'd imagine they would be identical though.

there is a magnification,it's subtle and i can see it naked eyes,i can swear,it was just to give you an idea.
It's not a big deal and the MRO works fine on the range .

Looking through a toilet paper tube is 0x, or zero magnification. Sights marketed as 1x have a lens. Looking through a lens can never be the same as looking through air because a lens is not air. Your eye will always perceive a slight difference between a lens and air. If you cut a hole in your windshield you would see a shift between the hole and the glass. Any and every lens imparts a slight distortion and magnification, depending on the thickness and shape of the lens.

 


Everyone's brains can reconcile these shifts. Your brain can learn almost any task with enough practice. If your brain is more accustomed to the shift from an Aimpoint, using another sight can be difficult at first. Your brain needs repetition to reinforce the new task.




In grad school we tested the patterns in which people's brains could learn a new task by having participants play a driving video game. We measured their eye movement with a hundred thousand dollar camera, and their hand movement using infrared markers. Then we switched the steering direction (turn wheel left, car moved right, etc.) At first, the eye and hand patterns coincided with what we called "noise", there was no real pattern. After a few minutes of practice most people would start to display logrythmic patterns of learning and their driving improved. For some, it took much longer than others, but eventually everyone's reversed steering patterns began to resemble their normal steering pattern after their brains reconciled their steering movements with what their eyes perceived.




The point is, if you use the sight like it's designed and let your brain reinforce reconciling the two images, you'll stop noticing a difference in the images. Most likely your brain will minimize the image sent by your non dominant eye.




Now if the dot won't power up, that's a problem.


 

I've been using red dots with both eyes open for well over a decade now.


The MRO was the ONLY optic I've ever used that actually hurt my eyes to use. I appreciate what you learned in grad school, but it has no bearing on the fact that I couldn't use the optic.

Almost not exactly ,that s the point

I zoomed and i did the same thing you did
And you can see the magnification



After all,you can believe me or not,everybody is free to believe what he wants

As i said,it s not a big deal for me and i used the MRO on the range and i'm happy with it

People get used to 1.25X and do just fine with it, so I think this 1.15X (what it looked like to me) will be acceptable to some, and less so to others.  
I also wonder if the magnification SEEMS more drastic at 5ft (1.25X) than 20ft (1.15X) or 100 yards (1.1X), BUT that could just be me.  I've spent 30 minutes looking through 3 different units in the LGS.
--
For the price, I think I could get used to it without any issues, but I understand if others can't.  Again, the RMRs always seemed to have distortion as well (whereas I hear the new Deltapoint PRO is the clearest and nicest glass ever on an MRDS).

Handled one at the gun store today, glad I cancelled my order.  I like the concept but the glass is shit, magnification is distracting.  I expect a lot more from Trijicon.

Has this drop test video been posted yet?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GCD9U2AmgyE

Still don't love the glass, but it looks like some units can take some falls.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, every eye is different and there will always be some distortion when looking through a glass. Through the Aimpoint:



It doesn't line up perfectly either, but when your brain merges the two images, it doesn't really matter because they're close enough. I think after shooting with the MRO awhile the effect will be less apparent.

I like how Fisher referred to some tests as "Arfcom level shit" I still want to see one in person before I buy.

i have a better photo with the Aimpoint where we can do the same "experiment"





As you can see,it s really different from my MRO

there is a small distortion,yep but my MRO has a magnification for sure and the Aimpoint NOT

The pictures are just a attempt to show this issue ,no more

I have the MRO and the Aimpoint and at 100% there is a magnification when you look through it,
it s not a big deal and i can live with because this Red dot ,despite the magnification, is pretty good

+1000000

it s the best thing to do

Exactly what CrimsonTide said. I got an early unit around Sept. 1 and noticed it immediately. Posted a review on another site. Sent back to Trijicon hoping it was an anomaly. Received replacement this week - same issues.

I really wanted it to be great.

Might as well use an ACOG with BAC if we're about training our brains to overcome the optical shift/misalignment between eyes. At least an ACOG provides useful magnification.

I'll stick with Aimpoint.

Received the replacement yesterday.  SN is around 7500.

The tint is much less prevalent, now more so at the bottom getting lighter as you scan upwards.  VERY slight magnification/fish eye issue.



Here's the thing-  I'd decided that I wasn't happy, as while I was sitting in my office looking through the optic at things inside and outside, I was getting blurring and double vision, caused, in my opinion, by my eyes trying to see something via different magnification.
Then I went home, put it on a rifle in the typical upper receiver location for a 1x optic, with my stock in the normal position,  and while I could slightly notice that objects in the optic appeared larger than objects through my non-sighting eye, with both eyes open,  I could not get any blurring or double vision, even when moving my head.

I'm going to do some comparisons over the weekend, but something about having the optic semi-fixed in distance and orientation to your eye seems to eliminate most of the problems I was having...

It's funny how most people that have mounted and shot with it have a different opinion than most people who have only looked through it at their LGS or living room.

not all
I have the same feeling in my basement or on the range .(never with the aimpoint H1/T1 or with the EXPS3)
The best thing is to try it and make your own opinion .
But afer 20 pages about this Red dot and a lot of people saying the same thing,we can guess there are issues with some MRO

Very sad to see these reviews. I wanted something American made to take a bite out of aimpoint's sales. So what are the best options are there for whose aimpoint's t2 pricing left out in the cold? Mepro? H1? Aimpint Pro? Primary Arms? Holusun? Maybe just save for a acog 1.5 or 3x

You can find a MRO without mount for 493$ and a T2 for 629$ with the factory low mount
For 136$ of difference,i prefere to buy a T2 .

https://www.botach.com/aimpoint-t-2-2moa-micro-red-dot-sights/