Ok, lots of gents have requested I repost this here, so here ya go.  It is an overview of body armor MATERIALS, rather than specific manufacturers.  I have been designing and building armor for 12 years, so have a fair amount of experience creating and destroying all sorts of bullet stopping goodies.  I will add to this as needed, and as people request.  If you have any questions, please let me know.  If I don't have the answer, I will tell you so, and see if I can get it for you.  I am not the ultimate expert on this, just have a strong fondness (my wife calls it something else) for armor.

 Just some recommendations (and this goes for any armor you buy, new or used):

Avoid Spectrashield, Spectra woven, or Dyneema: This material is based on polyethylene, the same stuff that milk jugs are made of.  The armor version is referred to as Ultra High Molecular Weight Poly-Ethylene (UHMWPE).  In situations where it gets hot (and most car trunks in the summer can get HOT), it will denature, reverting back to simple milk jug plastic.  Armoring FAIL.  I used to be a fan of this stuff until I read some great info by Kevin "Mad Dog" Mclung and Doctor Roberts ("DocGKR"), two names that you should look up and listen to.  They did some eye opening tests (especially Mad Dog) on the dangers of Spectra.  If the material goes over 180 F, it becomes a danger to its wearer.

Avoid Laminates: Something else both of these gentlemen strongly advise against.  Laminated armor materials have huge drawbacks (Spectra laminates more so).  They suck against contact shots (the muzzle blast literally melts them, allowing rounds to go right through), they delaminate with wear, they don't breathe (try wrapping yourself in saran wrap- that's how comfy they are), and they don't have anywhere near the shelf life of woven kevlar (which is practically immortal as far as I have seen).  Steer clear of laminates:

Spectrashield contact shot- massive penetration:
http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/spectrashieldpb-150x150.jpg

Spectrashield vs. Woven Kevlar BALCS panels contact shots- Spectrashield, massive penetration, with one shot .44 Mag, Woven Kevlar took 9 rounds before penetration:
http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/34066-pbalcs44mag_contact-150x150.jpg

Spectrashield contact shot- massive penetration
http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/spectra_contact_exit-150x150.jpg

Woven Kevlar Contact Shot- No penetration:
http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/kevlar_contact_exit-150x150.jpg

PHOTOS COURTESY ITS TACTICAL

AVOID ZYLON:  For the love of everything that is holy.  There was an amendment passed in congress outlawing this stuff for pete's sake.  It was supposed to be the next great armor material, and lots of manufacturers jumped on it.  Trouble is, combine heat with humidity (um, your body?) and the material degraded rapidly.  This lead directly to the deaths of at least two police officers, and Zylon was (after much foot dragging) pulled.  Don't ever use it.  

THINGS TO LOOK FOR IN SURPLUS ARMOR TO AVOID THE ZYLON BLUES:

POINT BLANK FUSION (ZYLON AND SPECTRASHIELD)http://www.us-elitegear.com/fusion.htm
Z-SHIELD (A ZYLON LAMINATE, YECCCH!)
Z-FLEX (SAME AS ABOVE)
THERE ARE MORE, BUT THIS IS A START.

If the label does not say, and the seller cannot/will not swear to it, assume any surplus armor contains laminates, Zylon, or both.  Zylon containing vests were universally deep-sixed after the Berry Amendment, and could be rooted out of dumpsters.  These are appearing on Fleabay and forums (Currently there are Zylon containing vests in the Equipment Exchange), being sold to unsuspecting buyers.  ASK, ASK, ASK, and if you get a song and dance, walk away.  Your life is much too precious to risk anything but woven Kevlar.

Pretty muchly that leaves woven aramid as the last man standing.  This stuff is, as always, a great material.  It is tough, fireproof (it will char but not melt at above 700 F) and will retain most of its ballistic effectiveness even after reaching this temp.  Being woven, it breathes better.  Contact shots have a much harder time getting through.  It lasts virtually forever- the 5-7 year warranty is not there to tell you when it goes bad.  Nominally, it is just there as a CYA measure by the companies to limit liability.  In one test, it was actually shown that older vests did BETTER than new vests at stopping rounds.  Weird, I know.  Here are two references:

“NIJ tests failed to demonstrate any significant differences in 10-year-old armor, regardless of the extent of use or apparent physical condition”

“The warranty exists solely to limit the manufacturer's liability on the product and is not a reflection of the anticipated service life of the product.”

...Guide to Police Body Armor, National Law Enforcement and Corrections Technology Center (NLECTC)

You can also find an abstract here:

http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publication...aspx?id=111390

So kevlar, kevlar, kevlar.  Woven, not laminated. ;)

Regarding plates, Doc is on the right track.  Rifle armor is important, as soft armor is completely useless against rifle rounds.  M193 will go through about 120-140 layers of soft armor with enough zip left to seriously ruin your weekend.  Believe me, I have checked.

Jpanzer- Just to reiterate, soft armor cannot be level III.  Max rating is IIIA.  And don't assume, get the specs, or better yet, test it yourself!

Rifle armor is rated either level III or IV.  Now, the interesting thing is, the higher rating is not necessarily better.  If you expect to be facing enemies with AP capability, the IV is nice to have (the spec calls for the plate to stop ONE round of .30-06 M2 AP black tip.  One round).  If you are expecting normal mild steel or lead cored, go with III by all means.  The spec for III calls for stopping 6 rounds of M80 .308 ball @ 2750FPS within a 6" circle.  So much better multi hit.  Always read the specs!

Then there is the question whether the plate is designed to stand alone, or be worn with soft armor behind it ("In Conjunction With").  The stand alone plates tend to be heavier, as they typically have much thicker backings.  This is nice if you are wearing just the plates and nothing else, but usually you have some sort of soft armor on, so the ICW are usually a better bet.  Plus, just me, I like having extra padding.  But if (like Doc Jarhead mentions) you like mobility, then stand alones might be for you.

Materials for rifle armor usually focus on hard stuff- soft armor defeats pistol rounds by catching, slowing, and deforming them.  They are low velocity (relatively) with a fairly large frontal area.  Rifle rounds are fast, with a small, pointed frontal area.  The defeat mechanism is yawing, deforming, eroding, shattering, and frictive braking (the last one is unusual).

Steel- Tried and true, this material is great for stopping rounds (millions of steel targets can't all be wrong). It stops by deforming rounds.  It can keep stopping them as long as the structure is uncompromised.  Heat and mistreatment do not affect it. Drawbacks- it is heavy for its protective levels, it can rust if you chip the paint, and it spalls.  What is spall?  Well, it is the reason most steel target manufacturers recommend being 50-100 yards from the target.  When a round hits, it splashes little bits of copper and lead in a cone at an angle.  If you are wearing one of these plates, that high velocity splash can end up in your throat and face.  Make sure if you run steel plates you wear spall guards in FRONT of the plates.  Just a few layers of kevlar are all that is needed.  One final drawback to steel plates- certain high velocity threats can penetrate it.  A few years back, there was a dustup over a certain manufacturers plates not stopping M193 @ above 3000 fps (but remember, M193 is not in the spec!).  So do your homework.

Titanium-  Ahhh, Titanium.  The very word brings to mind a supermetal that can do everything.  More misconceptions surround this metal than just about any other.  While true, it does make superior armor in some regards, it is not a panacea.  Ti has been used for several decades in the construction of advanced airframes (the A-12 was over 60% Ti, a strategic metal mostly found in Russia...).  Its claims to fame are: lightweight (60% the weight of steel @ comparable strengths) and corrosion resistance.  It is virtually impervious to corrosion (ironically, because it oxidizes so quickly, forming a tough layer of TiO2).  It cannot be hardened appreciably above the high 40s low 50s Rockwell C, and even that requires exotic precipitation hardening Beta alloys.  The most common alloy in use is referred to as 6-4, which is short for 6Al4V (6 points of Aluminum and 4 points of Vanadium).  Ti is a fairly tough metal, which makes it a good choice for armor plates for AFVs and APCs in thick section (I don't have the TE numbers compared to RHA in front of me right now, but they are pretty good).  In soft armor vests, Ti plates are sought after as trauma plates vs. steel because they are lighter and do not rust.  In sufficient thickness (2-3mm) they will stop all handgun rounds, up to and including some AP like the steel cored Tok rounds that play merry hob with most soft armor.  
  For rifle armor, Ti falls short- it is not hard enough to shatter high velocity rifle rounds (see above re: hardness).  This is where the TE (thickness equivalency) comes into play.  Ti can stop rifle rounds, even larger caliber cannon fire, but in thicknesses and weights that are prohibitive to us groundpounders.  My research has shown M80 will be stopped by a 14mm thick plate of 6-4 backed by 4mm of Aramid.  Most steel plates are between 4.5mm and 6mm depending on backing.  There have been some hybrid steel/Ti plates, but at that point, you might as well just go all steel.  Choose the right material for the job- for pistol rounds, Ti is a champ.  For rifles, look elsewhere.

Ceramic- This material encompasses several types of ceramic.  The most common is Alumina, also known as Aluminum Oxide or Al2O3.  It is very hard (upwards of 9 on the Moh's hardness scale), fairly light, inert, and not TOO expensive.  It stops projectiles by erosion, shattering, and yawing.  It is almost never used alone, relying on a backing to keep the high velocity rubble and projectile fragments from continuing into your body cavity.  It is great against lots of rifle rounds, and can be made proof against some AP rounds.  It is insensitive to heat and water.  Drawbacks- more expensive than steel, can be sensitive to mishandling (think cracked plates if you toss them in your gear bag).  Other ceramics include Silicon Carbide and Boron Carbide (more expensive and VERY expensive respectively).  These are lighter and harder materials, and can stop the very highest of threats (tungsten carbide cored AP for instance).  Most level IV plates are B4C.

Spectra- Wait, didn't I just say don't use this?  Yes, yes I did.  I am including this here for information purposes, and also because it is a gray area.  Spectra in hard armor is not as HUGE a danger as soft armor (this from DocGKR) because of the amount of heat required to get it isothermic (the same temp throughout).  So, if you have Spectra hardplates, there you go.  Standalone Spectra plates can stop rifle rounds with enough layers.  It stops rounds via frictive braking (think of bullet brake).  However, be advised there are some rounds that will penetrate UHMWPE plates, such as M855 green tip.  So again, do your homework.  AN EXAMPLE IS FOUND HERE:

http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-32839.html

GREEN TIP M855 IS NOT IN THE SPEC FOR LEVEL III, SO DON'T ASSUME.

The Future/New Advances- Current research is focused on several different threads.  In the area of soft armor, the Next Big Thing(tm) looks to be Magellan (Now Dupont) M5 fiber.  A fiber discovered in the late 90's, this material has been under development for the last 12 years.  Preliminary tests have shown it to be superior to Kevlar in nearly every category- tensile strength, durability, fire resistance (it is the most fire resistant fabric ever designed).  On a per unit volume basis, it would allow for a 60% reduction in armor weight for the same protection level as Kevlar KM2!  The material is a light blue color, and has not been made widely available due to continuing engineering difficulties.  Spinnerets that are used for processing Kevlar filaments are not strong enough for this fiber, and will break under the strain!  This has required a redesign of the manufacturing processes, which = delays.  

I hope this has been helpful- armor is one of those things that should be in everyone's kit bag.  Please IM or email me if you have any further questions.  I will do my best to answer them.

Thank you.
Let's make this a sticky.... mods?

Awesome info.

Next time I look at my vest, I'm going to try to figure out what its made of.

Remove the armor panels and read the label on the inner side


Edit to Add:

Current N.I.J. Standards and testing.

NIJ

I remember back in the 1980's these cats totally screwed up the process and thereby, the testing results.
Hope it's squared away by now.

Thanks Paddy, will do.

how are these plates http://www.galls.com/google/uniformstyle?assort=general_catalog&style=TE770&friendlyurl=

http://www.m4carbine.net/ and http://lightfighter.net/ have dozens of pages dedicated to this. Definitely worth a few minutes of your time.

Thanks gents.  Yes, good info at LF and M4 Carb as well.  DocGKR hangs out at both too.  And on the armor panel composition, it is seldom on the label these days- you either have to ask, or determine it yourself.  Looking at the plates mentioned, will get back to you.

D-R

Great post, thanks for the info. I subscribed so I can refer back to this.

I ordered a vest from bulletproofme.com several weeks ago after doing some research on this forum among others. I ordered a level III-A ultra-thin gold-flex vest. Its 100% woven p-Aramid. I am happy to know (unless I am really misunderstanding, correct me if I am wrong) this thread vindicates my research and purchase decision. My primary use will be to wear on the range during action shooting and a nice to have if the SHTF. They estimated 4-6 weeks, so I should be getting it soon.

It can get nasty cold here in the winter (-50F). Any adverse affects if I leave it in my vehicle and it gets that cold?

Same plate tested by a member:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/986203_BulletProofMe_com_Level_IV_Armor_Plate_Test.html





 

Benjamin....unless you got the 100% woven Aramid, you got a laminate.  Gold Flex and Gold Shield are both laminates, and have all the problems mentioned above.  I just checked, and the way they have it laid out, it would be easy to assume all their vests are woven P-Aramid.  I do not recommend buying soft armor from them, as they still market and sell vests made with inferior materials.  See if they will take it back, as you were lead to believe they were selling only wovens.

Laminates are also a bad choice in cold climates, as they hold in sweat from winter clothes, and can crack and delaminate faster in colder environments.  See if they will swap you for the 100% woven vest, and if they don't just cancel the transaction.  It was good that you did the research, but some places use confusing marketing, because they are trying to move vests with crap materials in a market where more and more people are catching on.  PM me if you would like.

D-R

Excellent, saved.

While I recognize the value of these tests, I would caution putting too much into it.

You have to remember that the NIJ does not test for contact shots:



Also most people would be wearing their armor under clothes which would protect the vest somewhat from the melting effects of a contact shot.  

One thing I found interesting from the folks doing these tests was they recommended a Level II kevlar instead of a level 3a laminate vest.  However the Level II kevlar vest is not rated to stop a .44 magnum at all.

The main message I take away from these tests is that the NIJ should test vests for contact shots.

R_S, while that is true, the contact shot issue is JUST ONE of the issues regarding laminates, in particular UHMWPE laminates.  This material is not suitable for soft armor, period.  Again, above 180 F, it turns into milk jug plastic.  I don't care how many layers of milk jug plastic you are wearing when a bullet hits you, it will penetrate.  Goldflex and Gold Shield delaminate, they crack, they are just crap.  If people still want these materials, that is fine, BUT THEY SHOULD BE CHEAPER THAN 100% WOVEN ARAMID.  Problem is, they are marketed as "Premium", and command 20-40% higher prices for an equivalent vest.  

So yes, this is a big deal.  Inferior materials should not be worn as armor, and people should be aware of these issues.  There are still lots of vests that are either pure laminates or hybrids being sold, often to unsuspecting folks.  *IF* they understand the dangers, and STILL WANT the inferior materials, good on 'em, free choice and all that.  They understand the risks and drawbacks, and made the choice with full cognizance.  But no more of the obfuscation by the manufacturers- this is lifesaving gear.

UHMWPE still makes acceptable hard armor, but must still be used cautiously when heat is involved.  The best plates out there currently IMHO are the AMI Hybrid Steel and Spectra.  Good juju.

Anyway, thanks for the reply, and I hope I did not come across as too stringent- this is just a big issue for me.  The NIJ should not be testing the vests, instead it should be a third party certifier- the NIJ has shown it is susceptible to pressure from vest manufacturers, by continuing to refuse tests that would weed out unsuitable materials.  You might also check the FBI Test Protocol, MUCH better range of conditions and shots.

Great info, Thanks

RLTW

Whoa, I fail. I guess I'll be canceling my order with them as I was indeed lead to believe I was purchasing a 100% woven p-aramid vest.

ETA: my fault, I should have asked them specifically. I assumed all their vests sold on that page were 100% woven p-aramid.Now that I read their website closely it seems obvious. I sent them an e-mail asking to swap the order. They have a good reputation so I am hopeful they will swap the order without difficulty.

great thread. thanks OP.

Here's some more good info:  Proper wear of hard armor

Yeh and I've seen pics of one that stopped 3 rounds of .338 lapua magnum at about 100 meters.  It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling thinking about that everytime I put those heavy SOBs on to chase down some poachers.

One point that is not yet discussed much yet is that the NIJ armor protocols do NOT test for any form of 5.56/.223 ammunition. Someone who is not well informed may see that Level III stops up to 6 rounds of .308 and assumes that because .223 is smaller that the armor will stop it as well. .223/5.56 behaves very differently than .308 against armor, and anyone who assumes that their level III/IV plate will stop 5.56 may be in for a deadly surprise.

You have to check with the plate manufacturer and get it in writing exactly what the plate is rated to stop.

So how do .mil vests compare to the aftermarket ones? None of the armor I currently use have the info in them. They probably did at one point but the placards are worn out on the inside and it is illegible.

I have several different issued armors, the old standby Intercptor vest, the MTV, an Eagle Plate carrier and a Eagle CIRAS. I used issued plates with all as well as the Side SAPIs. Can I do better than these?

D-R –––– the KM2 material should start showing up soon as the new plat was completed (from a construction standpoint) this fall

D-R...

My buddy, who is also in body armor R&D, told me that steel plate stop FMJ better and ceramic stops lead tip ammo better.  He said when fired the lead tip becomes molten in high powered rifle rounds and this aids in its penitration of the steel (much like anit-tank weapons).  With the ceramic plate the lead tip is softer and does not bust up the ceramic plate as much as the FMJ.  

Correct?

This thread is relevant to my interests.

^
This. I have an assortment of armor that is or was issue armor at some point. Most of the soft armor and even the plates give absolutely no indication of what materials were used in their construction. A couple plates are rated to M80 ball, 7.62 APM2, M2 ball, etc etc. Some of them have no manufacturers name either, just a code. I realize that this could require a novel in and of itself to explore all the various issue armor, but what knowledge can you impart in this regard.

I got mine from the Army circa 2009....should be good to go.  

ETA: Page 2 is mine

Holy Shneikies!  I step away to eat some turkey..... ;)

In order of responses (wipes grease off fingers):

Ben, that sounds like a good plan.  I wish they would put up warnings about the laminates, or stop carrying them.  While I am at it, I want a Ferrari...:)

Tim, that is a great post, and shows the underlying structures well.  Hard armor worn too low is like those kids that wear their pants down around their ankles....always makes me want to adjust them....:P

Wilez, they are GOOD kit.  Had the chance to discuss them with their creator a while back, and the use of steel to deform the projectile/Spectra to brake it is elegant as all get out.

Bill-  EXACTLY my point.  Not in the spec, unless you get level III+ that was specifically tested for it.  This was the problem with some steel plates a few years back, showing how a specific round above a threshold velocity made mincemeat of the plates.  Irony was, I had done a similar test that same weekend, and thought I had gotten a bad batch of steel.  Kind of weird timing.  Check the spec, always.

Buck- This is a can of worms.  .Mil acquisitions can, and often does go through multiple channels.  As long as each one meets the canned milspec standards, it is accepted.  This means, for example, that you could have IBA ballistic packages consisting of woven Kevlar, Spectrashield, Goldflex, and even Zylon (I kept the Zylon I pulled out of a pair of DAPS to show folks it was used in frontline armor until the Berry Amendment).  So don't assume it is GTG just because it was issue.  If you need to determine what you have, PM me and we can dig a bit deeper.  As far as doing better, there is ALWAYS a better armor, and issue armor is usually a compromise between effectiveness and procurement cost.

RT- PM me- have been messing with KM2 for the last 7 years, and love it.

FPS- While that sounds interesting, my testing indicates that lead tip ammo is a pushover for both materials.  AT rounds utilizing shaped charges (commonly known as HEAT rounds)  take advantage of the velocity of the metal jet rather than the temperature.  The Munroe effect causes a molten metal liner (usually copper, but can be plenty of other metals) to turn molten and hits the armor at well above 20K FPS.  It is strictly velocity, rather than temperature, that allows for penetration.  Plus, the melting point of lead is extremely low compared to steel (about 620 F vs. 1500 F or so).   FMJ will cause much greater penetration in both mild and armor steel than lead tip, as the lead is softer than the copper.  Otherwise, you would see the use of lead tip ammo in military AP round (which are primarily concerned with penetration of steel and steel armor.  Test it yourself- get a plate of mild steel and shoot M193 and then a soft point hunting round.  Thanks for the post!

MCR- Generally, there are lots of variations on a similar theme.  There are only so many combinations of materials, and generally you see the soft armor falling into one of three types- pure laminate, laminate/woven hybrid, and pure woven.  Determining the makeup is hard, as most manu. encapsulate their ballistic package these days.  For the plates, it varies, usually a mosaic or monolithic Al2O3 strikeface backed by resin hardened Aramid or UHMWPE.  PM me, and I can sift through the details with ya.

Tag for after turkey

Tag for mucho knowledge.

i've been thinking about eventully picking up some armor for both the wife and I, and have been looking at the vests offered by US Palm, they are available with level IIIA panels.

I like the idea of some armor if I ever find myself on the move during some real bad times, but would like to have the option to "up armor" myself with rifle rated plates if I should ever find myself holed up during some equally shitty days...

So I've also been looking at both the Alumunum Oxide Ceramic plates(Level IV Multihit Stand Alone 8LB $230 each)as well as the marginally heavier but more economical steel plates(level III 8.6LB $150 each) over at bulletproofme.com.

If I chose to go a little cheaper(I am fully aware of paying for what you get, but from what i'm reading in this thread for *MOST* threats up to at least intermeadiate "assault rifle" rounds the steel should be just fine, and my only real trade off is a bit of extra weight), does anyone know where I might find spall gaurds for use in front of the steel plates?

Assuming(trouble, I know) the plates would be more for stationary useage and that I don't get drilled center mass with a .30-06 AP round or a .338LM or something, is this a poor or decent train of thought I'm riding on here(in regards to what potential threats I could one day face my damned crystal ball is in the shop for an allignment and fluid flush)?

Thanks,

K.

Are the plates your speak of their TAC3S plates?  I just took delivery on a pair last week.

Also, if something is 100% Kevlar does that mean it is woven or can Kevlar be laminate?  I'm looking at these for side armor to go with the TAC3S plates.

Yup, the TAC3S are pretty much the current state of the art awesomeness that's available on the open market.


Have you contacted Velocity Systems to ask them what the panels are made of?

Do any of you know what material a Safariland model GIIIA 4.0 is made out of?  

I tried searching online without success- either the info is hard to find or my google-fu is weak.

I looked at the BPM steel plates, and they make no mention of being tested against M193 or M855, so I wouldn't assume that they will stop said rounds at close range (many steel plates fail against M193 at close range).

Their ceramic plates look like they are tested against M193, so they might be a decent option. Their SAPI plates are more expensive than plain ceramic, but are significantly lighter. They look like a decent choice for those who aren't able to get ahold of the AMI hybrid plates (they don't like to sell to non-LEO I hear).

D-R
Your Opinion on these Plates as these are what I have along with a Pig Plate Carrier
I know they are heavy  but it is still lighter than what I schlep around in for work
Thank You
plates here

Kar15- I would find a plate carrier FIRST and then fill it, rather than getting armor and then trying to find a carrier to fit.  It depends on what you are looking for.  Having this conversation with another gent right now about wanting something a little more low-vis: DBT made (don't know if they still have it) a good low-vis plate carrier that could handle 10X12 and 8X10 plates, as well as soft armor.  TAG also makes a Slick plate carrier that can be more easily worn under clothing.  Both are a good bet, as they can handle just soft armor or soft armor and plates.  Just remember that if you are talking aluminum oxide plates, you have to be careful of breakage.  I like the Armored Mobility plates (all three are GTG actually) because they are robust, and cover the range of threats/weights.  I would seriously consider just going with AMI, there is no reason at this juncture (unless you ABSOLUTELY NEED level IV protection) to go with anyone else.  Let me know on the spall guards, as I have some material that works well, and is not expensive.

Altair- Those are the current best overall plates IMHO.  You get extreme multi-hit level III against most conceivable threats.  And no, it can say 100% Kevlar and be Goldflex or Goldshield (both laminates).  It should say 100% WOVEN Kevlar.  I looked at those panels, and I think you should be ok, as they are heat sealed to keep water out.  Woven Kevlar loses 40% effectiveness when wet, but recovers completely when dry, so a lot of companies heat seal them.  I am torn on the practice, as if you get even a pinhole in the sealing fabric, they take forever to dry.  Call the company to verify.

Adhahn- (EDIT) The Safariland Gold consists of:

Brand: ZERO G GOLD, Model: LEVEL IIIA
SAFARILAND, ZERO G GOLD BALLISTIC VEST WITH 5 X 8" SOFT TRAUMA DEVICE AND CARRIER. SPECIFICATIONS: - NIJ THREAT LEVEL: IIIA - VERSION NUMBER: 4.0 - CONSTRUCTION: HYBRID - MATERIAL: GOLDFLEX, KEVLAR, SPECTRA- SHIELD-PLUS - So laminate hybrid unfortunately.  The Safariland vests are better in their "less premium" (SIlver) iterations, with the "Gold" and "Platinum" being made with the crappier, yet more expensive, laminates.

Billclo- That is correct, M193 is a bane of steel plates above 3k fps.  I would go with ceramic only if you understand their limitations and fragility.  And I think AMI might be more amenable to selling to civilians than they used to, just give 'em a call.  If money is no object, their Tac3S are still the best you can get.

Dovergunner- Which ones?  That is bpme's entire list of plates!  :)  There are some good choices and some not-so-good choices.  Again, I am moving away from recommending them even for plates, as AMI has three types of plates that cover most conceivable threats.  If you need mucho cheapo plates or level IV, bpme is still an option.  Let me know which specific plates you are looking at, and we can go from there.

Great stuff, D-R.

I went shopping for concealable body armor for work about 6 or 8 years ago, when all this Zylon horror was just starting to come out. I was an active member of McClung's Tactical Forum at the time, and consider myself lucky that I was informed enough to insist on an all-kevlar vest.

Thanks Jarhead.  Yeah, that pretty much saved my a*s as well- was just about ready to buy 50 yards of Zylon rolled goods....whooooboy would I have been PIS*ED!  Like the sigline...

D-R

I have an email in to SKD asking if it is woven.  I didn't realize that Goldflex and Goldshield are the same material as Kevlar, that is good to know.  I also didn't know that woven Kevlar loses effectiveness when wet.  Does it matter how wet?

Thanks for all the good info.

Altair- SKD makes good kit.  I would say the likelihood is good that they are woven, but it will be good to make sure.  Kevlar when completely soaked loses about 40% effectiveness, but returns to full value as it dries.  Light rain or sweat really won't affect it much, but it is good to know.  I subscribe to the school of not trying to keep it waterproof, because if you apply a waterproofing chemical to the fibers, it causes it to become flammable, and some evidence exists that it compromises the ballistic effectiveness.  If you try to keep it dry inside a sealed or non-permeable fabric covering, if you get a single hole in the shell, and it gets wet, it will keep the water inside, thus negating the whole point.  If your panels get wet, dry them when you can.  :)

I figured that was the case. We got some surplus unissued and unused flotation vests that are at least 1.5 times the thickness of regular 3a armor, if not more.

BT

SKD has two different side panels available for the PIG Plate Carrier, the one I linked that is Kevlar and a Dyneema version.  The Dyneema is more expensive and was what I thought I wanted until reading this thread.  I will post SKD's response here in case there is anyone else with a PIG looking to add the soft armor side panels.

One last thing, you mentioned that the TAC3S uses Spectra and that Spectra has some trouble with heat but it is less of an issue with hard armor.  I know you mentioned 180 degrees will degrade the soft armor, what temp with the hard armor start to exhibit problems?  My armor will spend most of its life in the trunk of a squad and while I'm in the midwest, so I won't have the same heat as a cop in Arizona or Texas, the trunk of a squad can get pretty hot here.  Is there a magic number or any way to tell if a plate has been compromised?

well that's depressing news given that I wear this to work everyday.

https://www.galls.com/style-BP388-general_catalog-galls-gold-micro-fiber-level-ii-body-armor-with-dyneema-and-boldface

Thanks for taking the time to post information and answer questions.

Altair- That would be great.  Regarding the plates, the compressed Spectra or Dyneema in hard plates are *less* susceptible to heat that the soft armor versions.  Having said that, they should be protected from exposure to heat if possible.  I look at it this way- ceramic plates and Dyneema plates each have a certain care and feeding regimen that must be followed.  Trunks can be bad for both- ceramic plates should not be tossed in trunks, and Dyneema/Spectra plates should not be left in trunks.  It takes *longer* to get the compressed material isothermic, but you can still see a degrading of the surface material.  So definitely take them inside to your gear locker!  Hope that helps.

Adhahn- My pleasure.  If I can help even one person with this, it was worth it.

Neby98- PM me, all is not lost.

awesome thread - great info.

I am looking to get some plates for my banshee.

thinking either the standalone bulletproofme plates, the gamma plates everyone seems to like or the max pro plates.

anyone care to give me the "which is better" of the three?

Here are some links for AMI:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6T9OxXQqjA

Wow, nice durability demonstration.

Company web page:

http://www.armoredmobility.com